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Tarawih is Bidah, but 102 rakaat isn't

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Bolani Muslim

Tarawih is Bidah, but 102 rakaat isn't
« on: June 29, 2016, 01:05:26 AM »
Salaam guys, it's been a while! Haven't you guys noticed  that although Shias cry about 'Tarawih in jamaat being bidah,' they never complain about their 102 rakaats of qadha in jamaat on their three nights of laylatul Qadr (making 306 rakats in total)? It's the hardest prayer I've ever done as our imambarah had no breaks and it was hot as hell inside, I bailed after 51 this year. It's prayed very fast without khushoo unlike the local tarawih (even my mom wants to join me next week).

http://www.duas.org/laylat_aamaal.htm
14. Recite a hundred rakats and it is preferable that in each rakat after the recitation of Sura Fatiha, Sura Ikhlaas be recited ten times.(It can be recited as 6 day salat if someone has Qaza or sitting )

ShiaMan

Re: Tarawih is Bidah, but 102 rakaat isn't
« Reply #1 on: July 12, 2016, 10:35:58 PM »
Salaam guys, it's been a while! Haven't you guys noticed  that although Shias cry about 'Tarawih in jamaat being bidah,' they never complain about their 102 rakaats of qadha in jamaat on their three nights of laylatul Qadr (making 306 rakats in total)? It's the hardest prayer I've ever done as our imambarah had no breaks and it was hot as hell inside, I bailed after 51 this year. It's prayed very fast without khushoo unlike the local tarawih (even my mom wants to join me next week).

http://www.duas.org/laylat_aamaal.htm
14. Recite a hundred rakats and it is preferable that in each rakat after the recitation of Sura Fatiha, Sura Ikhlaas be recited ten times.(It can be recited as 6 day salat if someone has Qaza or sitting )

So offering qada salah is bidah now? While it may be performed at the mosque, all qada salah are offered individually and not in jama'a

Bolani Muslim

Re: Tarawih is Bidah, but 102 rakaat isn't
« Reply #2 on: July 15, 2016, 02:28:22 AM »
So offering qada salah is bidah now? While it may be performed at the mosque, all qada salah are offered individually and not in jama'a
No, but if you believe offering a certain prayer (Qadha Salaah) at a specific time (3 days of Laylatul Qadr) when the Prophet (saw) didn't prescribe it, is considered a bidah. At the imambaras here where I grew up and from my relatives in Afghanistan, we all do it too. It consists of the local mullah leading 6 days worth of Qadha Salaah in jamaat for each of the 3 nights.
I mentioned it, because I've always heard from my relatives and local community 'Why would Allah prescribe a hard Sunnah like Tarawih when we fasted the whole day and our stomachs are full?" and "They (Sunnis) have no evidence for it." When these prayers are clearly harder then Tarawih, physically exhausting, no-one ever second guesses it or asks for 'evidence', and assumes that we or someone who has haqq on us has accumulated over 18 days worth of Qadha in just one year!
If you're seriously worried about having Qadha and getting the full potential of Ramadhan (not just Laylatul Qadr), finish your Qadha before Ramadhan and spend Ramadhan (especially the nights of Qadr) in dhikr and sunnah prayers, not doing an exhausting 'up and down' excercise done in 'jamaat' on the day you should've been doing Sunnah, not making-up Qadha.

ShiaMan

Re: Tarawih is Bidah, but 102 rakaat isn't
« Reply #3 on: July 15, 2016, 07:40:57 PM »
No, but if you believe offering a certain prayer (Qadha Salaah) at a specific time (3 days of Laylatul Qadr) when the Prophet (saw) didn't prescribe it, is considered a bidah. At the imambaras here where I grew up and from my relatives in Afghanistan, we all do it too. It consists of the local mullah leading 6 days worth of Qadha Salaah in jamaat for each of the 3 nights.
I mentioned it, because I've always heard from my relatives and local community 'Why would Allah prescribe a hard Sunnah like Tarawih when we fasted the whole day and our stomachs are full?" and "They (Sunnis) have no evidence for it." When these prayers are clearly harder then Tarawih, physically exhausting, no-one ever second guesses it or asks for 'evidence', and assumes that we or someone who has haqq on us has accumulated over 18 days worth of Qadha in just one year!
If you're seriously worried about having Qadha and getting the full potential of Ramadhan (not just Laylatul Qadr), finish your Qadha before Ramadhan and spend Ramadhan (especially the nights of Qadr) in dhikr and sunnah prayers, not doing an exhausting 'up and down' excercise done in 'jamaat' on the day you should've been doing Sunnah, not making-up Qadha.
You can offer qada any time and any place. Spending the nights of layl-qadr catching up on qada is a recommendation because one is to spend the whole nights in submission to Allah. And a best practice mentioned is to catch up on all qada because wajib takes precedence over sunnah.

The problem with tarawih is that the Prophet forbade it to do in congregation:
Narrated Zaid bin Thabit:
Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) made a small room (with a palm leaf mat). Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) came out (of his house) and prayed in it. Some men came and joined him in his prayer. Then again the next night they came for the prayer, but Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) delayed and did not come out to them. So they raised their voices and knocked the door with small stones (to draw his attention). He came out to them in a state of anger, saying, "You are still insisting (on your deed, i.e. Tarawih prayer in the mosque) that I thought that this prayer (Tarawih) might become obligatory on you. So you people, offer this prayer at your homes, for the best prayer of a person is the one which he offers at home, except the compulsory (congregational) prayer."
Sahih al-Bukhari
Vol. 8, Book 73, Hadith 134

Bolani Muslim

Re: Tarawih is Bidah, but 102 rakaat isn't
« Reply #4 on: July 17, 2016, 02:47:00 AM »
You can offer qada any time and any place. Spending the nights of layl-qadr catching up on qada is a recommendation because one is to spend the whole nights in submission to Allah. And a best practice mentioned is to catch up on all qada because wajib takes precedence over sunnah.
Yes, but you didn't answer any of my points.

The problem with tarawih is that the Prophet forbade it to do in congregation:
Narrated Zaid bin Thabit:
Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) made a small room (with a palm leaf mat). Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) came out (of his house) and prayed in it. Some men came and joined him in his prayer. Then again the next night they came for the prayer, but Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) delayed and did not come out to them. So they raised their voices and knocked the door with small stones (to draw his attention). He came out to them in a state of anger, saying, "You are still insisting (on your deed, i.e. Tarawih prayer in the mosque) that I thought that this prayer (Tarawih) might become obligatory on you. So you people, offer this prayer at your homes, for the best prayer of a person is the one which he offers at home, except the compulsory (congregational) prayer."
Sahih al-Bukhari
Vol. 8, Book 73, Hadith 134

Where does it say that He (saw) didn't forbade it in congregation? It goes against your arguments, because the Sahaba DID do it in congregation with the Prophet (saw), however stopped because the Prophet (saw) was worried it would become mandatory. At most you can argue that it is better to offer at home by yourself (which some ulema have said). It won't work as you are looking at Sunni literature from a 'Shia' perspective and that is bound to fail, because we believe in following the actions of the Rightly Guided Caliphs and that the Sahaba are good people. Since the Caliphs Umar-Ali (ra) all prayed tarawih and encouraged it in congregation, their is a consensus that praying it in congregation is allowed, with small differences (eg prayed at home vs congregation and specifics).

Rationalist

Re: Tarawih is Bidah, but 102 rakaat isn't
« Reply #5 on: July 17, 2016, 04:04:28 AM »


So offering qada salah is bidah now? While it may be performed at the mosque, all qada salah are offered individually and not in jama'a
[/quote]

What about Salat al Ayat which is done in jama'a?


Solomon

Re: Tarawih is Bidah, but 102 rakaat isn't
« Reply #6 on: July 17, 2016, 08:57:02 AM »
Salaam guys, it's been a while! Haven't you guys noticed  that although Shias cry about 'Tarawih in jamaat being bidah,' they never complain about their 102 rakaats of qadha in jamaat on their three nights of laylatul Qadr (making 306 rakats in total)? It's the hardest prayer I've ever done as our imambarah had no breaks and it was hot as hell inside, I bailed after 51 this year. It's prayed very fast without khushoo unlike the local tarawih (even my mom wants to join me next week).

http://www.duas.org/laylat_aamaal.htm
14. Recite a hundred rakats and it is preferable that in each rakat after the recitation of Sura Fatiha, Sura Ikhlaas be recited ten times.(It can be recited as 6 day salat if someone has Qaza or sitting )
Wssalam

Sis,Why do you consider tarawih isn't bidah and 102 rakat is?
"O Apostle! Deliver what has been sent down to you from your Lord; and if you don't do it, you have not delivered His message (at all); and Allah will protect you from the people ..." (Qur'an 5:67)
Messenger of Allah said:
"For whoever I am his mawla, 'Ali is his mawla."

Bolani Muslim

Re: Tarawih is Bidah, but 102 rakaat isn't
« Reply #7 on: July 17, 2016, 11:14:21 AM »
Because Prophet (saw), Khulafae Rashideen (ra), and Sahaba (ra) approve of namaaze tarawih, but not 102. Do you have any basis for 102 or no?

Solomon

Re: Tarawih is Bidah, but 102 rakaat isn't
« Reply #8 on: July 17, 2016, 11:51:38 AM »
^ Please can you quote to any narration from your own book to approve tarawih and disapprove 102 rakats.
"O Apostle! Deliver what has been sent down to you from your Lord; and if you don't do it, you have not delivered His message (at all); and Allah will protect you from the people ..." (Qur'an 5:67)
Messenger of Allah said:
"For whoever I am his mawla, 'Ali is his mawla."

Hani

Re: Tarawih is Bidah, but 102 rakaat isn't
« Reply #9 on: July 17, 2016, 07:22:08 PM »
We have narrations by `Ali praising `Umar for Tarawih. Tarawih is nothing more than extra night prayers, one can do them at the Masjid or at home. `Umar himself never did it at the Masjid as far as I am aware. `Umar organized those who were staying at the Masjid behind one Imam but that's just for the sake of organizing them in a way that the Masjid wouldn't be crowded an chaotic.
عَلامَةُ أَهْلِ الْبِدَعِ الْوَقِيعَةُ فِي أَهْلِ الأَثَرِ. وَعَلامَةُ الْجَهْمِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُشَبِّهَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الْقَدَرِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُجَبِّرَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الزَّنَادِقَةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ الأَثَرِ حَشْوِيَّةً

Religion = simple & clear

Ibn Yahya

Re: Tarawih is Bidah, but 102 rakaat isn't
« Reply #10 on: July 18, 2016, 02:46:54 AM »
We have narrations by `Ali praising `Umar for Tarawih. Tarawih is nothing more than extra night prayers, one can do them at the Masjid or at home. `Umar himself never did it at the Masjid as far as I am aware. `Umar organized those who were staying at the Masjid behind one Imam but that's just for the sake of organizing them in a way that the Masjid wouldn't be crowded an chaotic.

How do we answer the shia who say that the prophet forbade doing it in the masjid?

Noor-us-Sunnah

Re: Tarawih is Bidah, but 102 rakaat isn't
« Reply #11 on: July 18, 2016, 07:58:50 PM »
We have narrations by `Ali praising `Umar for Tarawih. Tarawih is nothing more than extra night prayers, one can do them at the Masjid or at home. `Umar himself never did it at the Masjid as far as I am aware. `Umar organized those who were staying at the Masjid behind one Imam but that's just for the sake of organizing them in a way that the Masjid wouldn't be crowded an chaotic.

How do we answer the shia who say that the prophet forbade doing it in the masjid?
As per authentic Sunni reports Prophet(Saws) prayed in Masjid for 2 days, even if the least number of Rakats are taken then it would be 8. If it was forbidden then Prophet(Saws) would have stopped people on the very first day after the two rakats of prayer.

ShiaMan

Re: Tarawih is Bidah, but 102 rakaat isn't
« Reply #12 on: July 18, 2016, 09:09:40 PM »

What about Salat al Ayat which is done in jama'a?
While it is being at a masjid, the niyyah is "furadah". Speaking of mockery:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_BHznIrRnDI

Hani

Re: Tarawih is Bidah, but 102 rakaat isn't
« Reply #13 on: July 19, 2016, 05:48:07 AM »
We have narrations by `Ali praising `Umar for Tarawih. Tarawih is nothing more than extra night prayers, one can do them at the Masjid or at home. `Umar himself never did it at the Masjid as far as I am aware. `Umar organized those who were staying at the Masjid behind one Imam but that's just for the sake of organizing them in a way that the Masjid wouldn't be crowded an chaotic.

How do we answer the shia who say that the prophet forbade doing it in the masjid?

He never forbade anybody. There's people doing I`tikaf even at the Masjids in Ramadan, they stay there all month long.
عَلامَةُ أَهْلِ الْبِدَعِ الْوَقِيعَةُ فِي أَهْلِ الأَثَرِ. وَعَلامَةُ الْجَهْمِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُشَبِّهَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الْقَدَرِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُجَبِّرَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الزَّنَادِقَةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ الأَثَرِ حَشْوِيَّةً

Religion = simple & clear

ShiaMan

Re: Tarawih is Bidah, but 102 rakaat isn't
« Reply #14 on: July 19, 2016, 10:59:06 PM »
Some historians will tell you that the form of tarawih prayed today is not even what the Prophet was referring to. Go to the link (http://www.sunnah.com/search/?q=tarawih).

You will notice "tarawih" always comes in "()" indicating that the meaning is implied. Some argue that the prayers being mentioned by the Prophet are salat-e-tahajjud and not tarawih. That word does not exist in Sahih-e-Sitta.

Secondly, please read this narration:

Narrated Zaid bin Thabit:
The Prophet (ﷺ) took a room made of date palm leaves mats in the mosque. Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) prayed in it for a few nights till the people gathered (to pray the night prayer (Tarawih) (behind him.) Then on the 4th night the people did not hear his voice and they thought he had slept, so some of them started humming in order that he might come out. The Prophet (ﷺ) then said, "You continued doing what I saw you doing till I was afraid that this (Tarawih prayer) might be enjoined on you, and if it were enjoined on you, you would not continue performing it. Therefore, O people! Perform your prayers at your homes, for the best prayer of a person is what is performed at his home except the compulsory congregational) prayer." (See Hadith No. 229,Vol. 3) (See Hadith No. 134, Vol. 8)
Sahih al-Bukhari
Vol. 9, Book 92, Hadith 393


Whatever prayer is being referred was being done individually and when the people wanted to do it in jama'a, the Prophet moved away from the mosque to his home. So regardless of whether this is tarawih or tahajjud, it showed be prayed at home per the sunnah of the Prophet. Because after all, Sunnis should follow the Sunnah of the Prophet and not someone else.

Solomon

Re: Tarawih is Bidah, but 102 rakaat isn't
« Reply #15 on: July 20, 2016, 10:53:31 AM »
.
« Last Edit: July 20, 2016, 10:56:13 AM by Solomon »
"O Apostle! Deliver what has been sent down to you from your Lord; and if you don't do it, you have not delivered His message (at all); and Allah will protect you from the people ..." (Qur'an 5:67)
Messenger of Allah said:
"For whoever I am his mawla, 'Ali is his mawla."

Ibn Yahya

Re: Tarawih is Bidah, but 102 rakaat isn't
« Reply #16 on: July 20, 2016, 12:38:05 PM »
Which historians say this akhi?

Solomon

Re: Tarawih is Bidah, but 102 rakaat isn't
« Reply #17 on: July 20, 2016, 12:55:16 PM »
We have narrations by `Ali praising `Umar for Tarawih. Tarawih is nothing more than extra night prayers, one can do them at the Masjid or at home. `Umar himself never did it at the Masjid as far as I am aware. `Umar organized those who were staying at the Masjid behind one Imam but that's just for the sake of organizing them in a way that the Masjid wouldn't be crowded an chaotic.

Brother can you quote those narrations which approves the "Tarawih" is sunna of prophet(s).
"O Apostle! Deliver what has been sent down to you from your Lord; and if you don't do it, you have not delivered His message (at all); and Allah will protect you from the people ..." (Qur'an 5:67)
Messenger of Allah said:
"For whoever I am his mawla, 'Ali is his mawla."

 

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