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What do twelver shia books and scholars say about praying together with the Sunn

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Muhammad Tazin


I have been hearing various things about Shia-Sunni salat together from my childhood. I have personally called my shia neighbours to pray in our mosque, when did not know about such schism between us. Far later I realized and observed that, they got to pray in their HUsseiniyat in the other area nearby!

In recent days, I often hear from some of local twelver SHIA preachers saying online that Shia and Sunni can unite, can pray behind each other and can pray together; they also posts photo where Iranian Shia leaders praying with Sunni Muslims. Although, they are strict that, one must accept wilayat of ahlul bayt to fulfill his Imaan. Some Shia preachers are openly rafidi, they are against praying behind a non Imami.

On Internet, I found contradictory information about this. Somewhere I read that according to Shia’s, praying in a sunni(Mukhalifeen) mosque is a form of taqiya and it can be used to deceive those enemies. Example, you will find some narrations in this article here - http://www.fnoor.com/main/articles.aspx?article_no=11873#.WwWZNopx2Ul

On the other hand, I find some quotes from shia books, and some fatwas, where it says that, praying together with sunnis is great for ummah; even, praying behind/together is like praying behind Rasulullah(PBUH)! Here you will find some  -
http://nosos.net/%D8%B5%D9%84%D8%A7%D8%A9-%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%AC%D9%85%D8%A7%D8%B9%D8%A9-%D9%85%D8%B9-%D8%A3%D9%87%D9%84-%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%B3%D9%86%D9%91%D8%A9/

Ayatullat Sistani is harsh on this issue, he says about praying Jumma with Sunni – “performing Jumu'ah prayers with them is not enough.”
link - https://www.sistani.org/english/qa/01231/
Here, Sistani discusses about praying behind a non-imami in state of Taqiya and praying in jamaaat in Makkah, Madina etc.   https://www.sistani.org/arabic/book/14/3596/

Ayatullat al-khoei gives answer about praying behind a non-Imami for imamiya shias ; whether the Imam is steadfast in gaybah belief or not etc.
{pardon my weak Arabic, if I understood anything wrong}

السؤال :  إذا كان امام الجماعة إماميا غير جامع لشرائط الامامة .. هل يجوز الصلاة خلفه متابعة ، والاخفات في الصلاة الجهرية إذا كانت هناك مصلحة شرعية أخرى ؟
الجواب :  لا تجزي هذه الصلاة.

السؤال :  إذا إرتكب إمام الجماعة ما يخل بالعدالة كالغيبة مثلا .. فهل يجوز الائتمام به بعد أيام ، إذا كان من دأبه أنه يستغفر ربه ، وإن لم أعلم بإستغفاره ؟
الجواب :  لا يجوز الائتمام به ، إلا إذا اطمئن بعدالته
link - http://www.al-khoei.us/fatawa1/index.php?list=44&part=1

Can anyone enlighten me more about this topic? with references and detailed discussions?

iceman

I have been hearing various things about Shia-Sunni salat together from my childhood. I have personally called my shia neighbours to pray in our mosque, when did not know about such schism between us. Far later I realized and observed that, they got to pray in their HUsseiniyat in the other area nearby!

In recent days, I often hear from some of local twelver SHIA preachers saying online that Shia and Sunni can unite, can pray behind each other and can pray together; they also posts photo where Iranian Shia leaders praying with Sunni Muslims. Although, they are strict that, one must accept wilayat of ahlul bayt to fulfill his Imaan. Some Shia preachers are openly rafidi, they are against praying behind a non Imami.

On Internet, I found contradictory information about this. Somewhere I read that according to Shia’s, praying in a sunni(Mukhalifeen) mosque is a form of taqiya and it can be used to deceive those enemies. Example, you will find some narrations in this article here - http://www.fnoor.com/main/articles.aspx?article_no=11873#.WwWZNopx2Ul

On the other hand, I find some quotes from shia books, and some fatwas, where it says that, praying together with sunnis is great for ummah; even, praying behind/together is like praying behind Rasulullah(PBUH)! Here you will find some  -
http://nosos.net/%D8%B5%D9%84%D8%A7%D8%A9-%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%AC%D9%85%D8%A7%D8%B9%D8%A9-%D9%85%D8%B9-%D8%A3%D9%87%D9%84-%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%B3%D9%86%D9%91%D8%A9/

Ayatullat Sistani is harsh on this issue, he says about praying Jumma with Sunni – “performing Jumu'ah prayers with them is not enough.”
link - https://www.sistani.org/english/qa/01231/
Here, Sistani discusses about praying behind a non-imami in state of Taqiya and praying in jamaaat in Makkah, Madina etc.   https://www.sistani.org/arabic/book/14/3596/

Ayatullat al-khoei gives answer about praying behind a non-Imami for imamiya shias ; whether the Imam is steadfast in gaybah belief or not etc.
{pardon my weak Arabic, if I understood anything wrong}

السؤال :  إذا كان امام الجماعة إماميا غير جامع لشرائط الامامة .. هل يجوز الصلاة خلفه متابعة ، والاخفات في الصلاة الجهرية إذا كانت هناك مصلحة شرعية أخرى ؟
الجواب :  لا تجزي هذه الصلاة.

السؤال :  إذا إرتكب إمام الجماعة ما يخل بالعدالة كالغيبة مثلا .. فهل يجوز الائتمام به بعد أيام ، إذا كان من دأبه أنه يستغفر ربه ، وإن لم أعلم بإستغفاره ؟
الجواب :  لا يجوز الائتمام به ، إلا إذا اطمئن بعدالته
link - http://www.al-khoei.us/fatawa1/index.php?list=44&part=1

Can anyone enlighten me more about this topic? with references and detailed discussions?

There is no issue with Shias praying behind Sunni Imams or with Sunnis. You'll find a lot on the Internet bur this doesn't mean everything you find and read on the net is right and true. The problem is can Sunnis pray with Shias and behind a Shia Imam.

Rationalist

"Taqiyya is an obligatory duty (farida wajiba) upon us under the governance of the oppressors, thus whoever abandons it has opposed the religion of the Imamiyyah and has separated from it.As-Sadiq (as) said, “Even if I said ‘the one who abandons taqiyya is as the one who abandons salat,’ I would be speaking the truth.”Taqiyya is in all things, until it reaches bloodshed. If it reaches bloodshed then there is no taqiyya. Allah, sublime be His name, has given validity to the appearance of friendship (muwalah) to the deniers (kafirin) in the state of taqiyya. He, `azza wa jalla, has said, “The believers do not take the unbelievers as awliya instead of the believers, then whoever does that has nothing from Allah, except if you have a fear of them.”It is related from as-Sadiq (as) that he was asked about the saying of Allah, `azza wa jalla, “Verily the most noble of you with Allah is the most fearing”. He said “The one from you who most practices taqiyya.”He (as) said, “Mix with the people on the outside, and oppose them on the inside, so long as the affair is a longing.”He (as) said, “Allah have mercy on a command we urge the people towards and it has not made us to be hated by them.”He (as) said, “Visit their sick, attend their funerals, and pray in their masaajid.”He (as) said, “One who prays in the first row with them is as though he had prayed in the first row with the Messenger of Allah (sawas).”He said, “Ostentation (riya’) with the hypocrite in his house is worship, and with the believer, is shirk.”Taqiyya is obligatory; it is not allowed to abandon it until the Qa’im (as) comes forth. Whoso abandons it has entered in the interdiction of Allah, `azza wa jalla, and the interdiction of His Messenger and the Imams, the blessings of Allah be upon them all. "
(Kitab al-Hidaya Shaykh Saduq)

Rationalist

There is no issue with Shias praying behind Sunni Imams or with Sunnis. You'll find a lot on the Internet bur this doesn't mean everything you find and read on the net is right and true. The problem is can Sunnis pray with Shias and behind a Shia Imam.

It depends. Don't the 12er Shia read Ziyrat al Ashura after namaz? I went to one 12er Shia mosque and they did that.

iceman

It depends. Don't the 12er Shia read Ziyrat al Ashura after namaz? I went to one 12er Shia mosque and they did that.

What do you mean by 'it depends'. No they don't. It's not compulsory. What's the issue with Ziyarat  Al Ashura. Does there seem to be a problem with this Ziyrat. You seem to be very concerned about it.

Muhammad Tazin

I have found this article, which is much more elaborated ens shows the contradictions of 12er shia deen!

https://gift2shias.com/2012/03/18/shia-praying-in-the-mosques-of-the-muslims-a-sign-of-hope-or-hopelessness/ 

Rationalist

What do you mean by 'it depends'. No they don't. It's not compulsory. What's the issue with Ziyarat  Al Ashura. Does there seem to be a problem with this Ziyrat. You seem to be very concerned about it.

It sends lana on 1,2 and 3. That is a big concern.

iceman

It sends lana on 1,2 and 3. That is a big concern.

One can create or come up with many concerns as they want. I can give you a list of concerns from the other side. Also unity depends on effort and commitment from both sides and not just one.

Rationalist

One can create or come up with many concerns as they want. I can give you a list of concerns from the other side. Also unity depends on effort and commitment from both sides and not just one.

Yes I want that list. Please present the list of concerns.

iceman

Yes I want that list. Please present the list of concerns.

What do you intend to do with it, throw it out of the window and say "hallelujah, lets get on with each other". Some of you see us as misguided, some believe we created our own sect/faith and some see us as KAFIR. Is this good enough to start off with. Unity is an effort from both sides with will and desire.

First you see us different than yourself then you bring in conditions such as lanat, this, that and the other. Forget about us for the moment and look at the headline of the thread, is a member of one Sunni school of thought allowed to pray with and behind an Imam and members of another Sunni school of thought.

Muhammad Tazin

To attain Unity , top Shia scholars must declare that , not believing in Imamah does not make anyone Jahannami or Kafir etc. rather that arranging shia-sunni prayer together occasionally

iceman

To attain Unity , top Shia scholars must declare that , not believing in Imamah does not make anyone Jahannami or Kafir etc. rather that arranging shia-sunni prayer together occasionally

And top Sunni Scholars need to declare that Shias are Muslims just as much as they are. And they shouldn't be afraid to openly criticise and condemn those Sunnis who consider us Kafir. It has to be both ways.

Rationalist

What do you intend to do with it,
Maybe I dont know what bothers 12ers about the Aamis(Sunnis). Afterall you consider yourself special.

Quote
throw it out of the window and say "hallelujah, lets get on with each other". Some of you see us as misguided, some believe we created our own sect/faith and some see us as KAFIR.
Is that any different from how 12er Shia see us?


Quote
First you see us different than yourself then you bring in conditions such as lanat, this, that and the other.
Tabarra is pillar in your sect. How can I put a condition on that? I am just saying religious unity is not possible. Unity with Yassir Habib and Shirazis is better than those who use taqiyyah and lie about their not having takfiri views against 1,2 and 3.
 
Quote
Forget about us for the moment and look at the headline of the thread, is a member of one Sunni school of thought allowed to pray with and behind an Imam and members of another Sunni school of thought.

Yes I think they are allowed. However religious unity is not possible on a large scale.

Zlatan Ibrahimovic

Shi'a-Sunni Unity is an attempt to unite both sects politically and socially in the face of "common" threats. It's not really religious unity, because that wouldn't make sense.

Whether you agree with this form of unity is your choice. On both sides, understandably, there's skeptics.

As for those who strive for religious "unity", they are not following their respective sects properly. As both sects declare bara'ah on each other.
محور المقاومة والممانعة

Khaled

As for those who strive for religious "unity", they are not following their respective sects properly. As both sects declare bara'ah on each other.

That's the difference between you and us; we are not following a "sect", we are following the Religion of Islam.  You on the other hand seem to have a different understanding
كلُّ سُلامى من الناس عليه صدقة كلَّ يوم تطلع فيه الشمس، تَعدلُ بين اثنين صدقة، وتعين الرَّجل في دابَّته فتحمله عليها أو ترفع له عليها متاعَه صدقة، والكلمةُ الطيِّبة صدقة، وبكلِّ خطوة تَمشيها إلى الصلاة صدقة، وتُميط الأذى عن الطريق صدقة

Zlatan Ibrahimovic

That's the difference between you and us; we are not following a "sect", we are following the Religion of Islam.  You on the other hand seem to have a different understanding

#semantics

The topic is about Shi'as and Sunnis praying with each other, you have anything to say to that or do you accept my answer?
محور المقاومة والممانعة

iceman

That's the difference between you and us; we are not following a "sect", we are following the Religion of Islam.  You on the other hand seem to have a different understanding

We are also not following a sect, we are also the religion of Islam. The only difference between us and you is where we take it from. We take it from Imamah and the Ahlul Bayth and you take it from Caliphate and Aaimah e Arbaa.

Noor-us-Sunnah

We are also not following a sect, we are also the religion of Islam. The only difference between us and you is where we take it from. We take it from Imamah and the Ahlul Bayth and you take it from Caliphate and Aaimah e Arbaa.
Sunnis take their religion from Prophet Muhammad(saws), i.e his Sunnah, that why we are called Ahlus-Sunnah(people upon Sunnah of Prophet) and from his Sahaba(which includes some members of Ahlelbayt).

As for taking it from A'immah Arbaa, then in that sense you take it from countless Marja'iyat, whose Taqleed you make. Each Marji' whose taqleed you make, is a Madhab in itself.

Grand Shia Ayatullah Fadlullah confirms this stating:

إن المشكلة التي نواجهها في تعدد المرجعيات هي المشكلة التي نواجهها في تعدد المذاهب الفقهية لأن المرجعيات هي مذاهب فقهية متعددة من خلال طبيعة تنوع الفتاوى، وتنوع النظريات في هذا المجال
The problem that we are facing in having numerous Marja`iyat (plural of Marji`) is the same as that of having numerous Fiqhi Madhabs, because the Marji`iyat are numerous Fiqhi Madhabs in their natural variety of Fatwas and  views.(“al-Ma`alim al-Jadidah lil Marji`iyah al-Shi`iyah” pg.117).
« Last Edit: June 06, 2018, 06:43:59 AM by Noor-us-Sunnah »

 

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