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Umar married Umm Kulthoom bint Ali - ayotollah Sistani

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Adil

Umar married Umm Kulthoom bint Ali - ayotollah Sistani
« on: March 23, 2020, 08:00:42 PM »
Asalaamualaykum

I came across this today.

https://web.archive.org/web/20070202205718/http://www.alseraj.net/ar/fikh/2/?ohJCgBXYrO1075094893&61&90&3

Question 85:

the question:
Is it true that the second caliph married the daughter of Imam Ali, peace be upon him?
Fatwa:
This is how it was reported in history and narrations.

TAHIR

Re: Umar married Umm Kulthoom bint Ali - ayotollah Sistani
« Reply #1 on: March 24, 2020, 10:19:40 AM »
Asalaamualaykum

I came across this today.

https://web.archive.org/web/20070202205718/http://www.alseraj.net/ar/fikh/2/?ohJCgBXYrO1075094893&61&90&3

Question 85:

the question:
Is it true that the second caliph married the daughter of Imam Ali, peace be upon him?
Fatwa:
This is how it was reported in history and narrations.

Diplomatic answer, sistani can't dare speak in unambiguous terms

iceman

Re: Umar married Umm Kulthoom bint Ali - ayotollah Sistani
« Reply #2 on: April 04, 2020, 04:30:59 PM »
Asalaamualaykum

I came across this today.

https://web.archive.org/web/20070202205718/http://www.alseraj.net/ar/fikh/2/?ohJCgBXYrO1075094893&61&90&3

Question 85:

the question:
Is it true that the second caliph married the daughter of Imam Ali, peace be upon him?
Fatwa:
This is how it was reported in history and narrations.

Well you've got to look at the facts. How old was Umar when he married her. And how old was she. When did the marriage take place and who read the nikah. These things should be open and known if this marriage took place. And how may examples do we see of someone the age of a grandfather marrying someone of the age of a granddaughter.

It is said that both Abu Bakr and Umar asked the Prophet s.a.w for Fatimah's hand in marriage. But the Prophet s.a.w replied by saying "she is too young". Now Fatimah became the mother of Qalsoom who was born years after Fatimah got married. And I'm sure Qalsoom has older siblings as well.

One needs to look at the bigger picture by gathering all the facts. Then you can get to the bottom of things. Most people don't believe in this tale. They believe that tales like this and many more were created by others just to show that things were good between the Shaykhain and the Ahlul Bayt. But history tells us a different story. And tales like these are have bern created just as a counter argument to challenge facts which some find bitter.

Abu Muhammad

Re: Umar married Umm Kulthoom bint Ali - ayotollah Sistani
« Reply #3 on: April 05, 2020, 03:24:18 AM »
Well you've got to look at the facts. How old was Umar when he married her. And how old was she. When did the marriage take place and who read the nikah. These things should be open and known if this marriage took place. And how may examples do we see of someone the age of a grandfather marrying someone of the age of a granddaughter.

It is said that both Abu Bakr and Umar asked the Prophet s.a.w for Fatimah's hand in marriage. But the Prophet s.a.w replied by saying "she is too young". Now Fatimah became the mother of Qalsoom who was born years after Fatimah got married. And I'm sure Qalsoom has older siblings as well.

What?
1) How old were the Prophet (saw) and Aisha when they got married?
2) You asked who read the nikah? Do you have that kind of details for all of Ali's marriages? Or the details of all of your imams' marriages?

One needs to look at the bigger picture by gathering all the facts. Then you can get to the bottom of things. Most people don't believe in this tale. They believe that tales like this and many more were created by others just to show that things were good between the Shaykhain and the Ahlul Bayt. But history tells us a different story. And tales like these are have bern created just as a counter argument to challenge facts which some find bitter.

Nobody challenged the nikah took place. Not until 5 AH.

TAHIR

Re: Umar married Umm Kulthoom bint Ali - ayotollah Sistani
« Reply #4 on: April 06, 2020, 09:05:46 PM »
Well you've got to look at the facts. How old was Umar when he married her. And how old was she. When did the marriage take place and who read the nikah. These things should be open and known if this marriage took place. And how may examples do we see of someone the age of a grandfather marrying someone of the age of a granddaughter.

It is said that both Abu Bakr and Umar asked the Prophet s.a.w for Fatimah's hand in marriage. But the Prophet s.a.w replied by saying "she is too young". Now Fatimah became the mother of Qalsoom who was born years after Fatimah got married. And I'm sure Qalsoom has older siblings as well.

One needs to look at the bigger picture by gathering all the facts. Then you can get to the bottom of things. Most people don't believe in this tale. They believe that tales like this and many more were created by others just to show that things were good between the Shaykhain and the Ahlul Bayt. But history tells us a different story. And tales like these are have bern created just as a counter argument to challenge facts which some find bitter.
Iceman have you obliged upon yourself to speak nonsense on every thread .
Al khomayni says one can marry a suckling babe even

TAHIR

Re: Umar married Umm Kulthoom bint Ali - ayotollah Sistani
« Reply #5 on: April 06, 2020, 09:09:25 PM »
Proof here, he says ok placing privates between thighs of suckling babe

Adil

Re: Umar married Umm Kulthoom bint Ali - ayotollah Sistani
« Reply #6 on: April 07, 2020, 07:06:37 AM »
Well you've got to look at the facts. How old was Umar when he married her. And how old was she. When did the marriage take place and who read the nikah. These things should be open and known if this marriage took place. And how may examples do we see of someone the age of a grandfather marrying someone of the age of a granddaughter.

It is said that both Abu Bakr and Umar asked the Prophet s.a.w for Fatimah's hand in marriage. But the Prophet s.a.w replied by saying "she is too young". Now Fatimah became the mother of Qalsoom who was born years after Fatimah got married. And I'm sure Qalsoom has older siblings as well.

One needs to look at the bigger picture by gathering all the facts. Then you can get to the bottom of things. Most people don't believe in this tale. They believe that tales like this and many more were created by others just to show that things were good between the Shaykhain and the Ahlul Bayt. But history tells us a different story. And tales like these are have bern created just as a counter argument to challenge facts which some find bitter.

I think Sistani knows more about facts than you when it comes to this issue.

iceman

Re: Umar married Umm Kulthoom bint Ali - ayotollah Sistani
« Reply #7 on: April 07, 2020, 12:16:29 PM »
I think Sistani knows more about facts than you when it comes to this issue.

😀 Ok, then please ask him and let me know. 😊 You've got your mind set on believing this tale that it was the daughter of Fatima and Ali. The mother of the daughter (fatima) was too young for him (Umar) when he asked for her hand in marriage. But when Fatima got married and had 4 children then her daughter (Qalsoom) was old enough for him (Umar). 😊 When did this marriage take place, who read the nikah and what we're their ages. 😊 I'm sure you'll be able to pick this up from his excellence Sistani and then have the courage to discuss the matter with me. 😊
« Last Edit: April 07, 2020, 12:24:39 PM by iceman »

iceman

Re: Umar married Umm Kulthoom bint Ali - ayotollah Sistani
« Reply #8 on: April 07, 2020, 12:37:48 PM »
I'm putting this forward that I came across. You tell me what you think and make of it. Lets get to the bottom of this tale.

Is there a hadith about the daughter of Imam Ali (As) who was asked in marriage by the second caliph Umar?  Did a marriage take place at all?

Answer
Bismillah al-Rahmaan al-Raheem
The short answer to this question is yes there are hadiths that attempt to suggest that Umar bin al-Khattaab asked for the daughter of Imam Ali (AS). The hadiths that are reported in such sunny hadith books as the book of al-Estee'aab by Ibn Abd-el-Birr, the book of Taareekh Baghdaad by al-Khateeb al-Baghdaadi, and the book of al-Esaabah by Ibn Hajar are quite clearly false and un-authentic; not only on the basis of the narrators of the hadiths, but also on the basis of the content of the hadiths.
In one hadith "Umar asks Imam Ali (AS) for his daughter in marriage, and Imam Ali (AS) asks him to leave and then Imam Ali asks his daughter to go to Umar, and when she arrives Umar asks her to marry him, and places his hand on her leg and uncovers her leg!!!!!!  She immediately says to him you do this to me!  If you were not the ruler I would have broken your nose. And she leaves the room. She tells Imam Ali of what happened and added 'You sent me to a vile old man.'  But Ali nevertheless marries her to him!"  al-Estee'aab  4/1954.

In another hadith "Umar asks Imam Ali (AS) for his daughter in marriage, and Imam Ali (AS) asks him to leave and then Imam Ali asks his daughter to make herself beautiful to go to Umar!!!  And when Umar saw her he placed his hand on her leg and asked her to marry him . . . when she came back to her father Imam Ali asked her what did Umar tell you, she replied Umar kissed me and placed his hand on my leg and asked me to marry him.  Then Ali married her to him!!!!!"  Taareekh Baghdaad 6/182.
Ibn Hajar reports in his book al-Esaabah that "Umar asks Imam Ali (AS) for his daughter Umm Kolthum (AS) in marriage, and Imam Ali (AS) asks him to leave and then Imam Ali asks his daughter to go to Umar, and when she arrives Umar placed his hand on her leg and uncovers her leg!!!!!!  The daughter of Imam Ali (AS) says to him if you were not the ruler I would have gouged your eyes . . . ." al-Esaabah 4/321.

If the above narrations are true then the behaviour of Umar according to such hadiths has been so fouls and abhorrent that many sunny scholars have been put to shame.  Because such behaviour is not only disgraceful, but it is also totally haram according to Islam.  One of the top sunny scholars, Ibn Jawzey, states in his book "Tathkirat Khawas al-Ummah" p 321: "And by Allah this is vile and despicable, even if she was a slave Umar may not have done this to her, and furthermore in accordance with the unanimous consensus of the scholars of the Muslims, the touching of a non-Mahram is not allowed, then how this hadith can be attributed to Umar?"

As you can see these hadiths are totally false and any respectable and honourable Muslim would not send his daughter to the house of another man or agree to such abhorrent behaviour let alone agreeing to marrying his daughter.  These hadiths have been placed by the enemies of Imam Ali (AS) and the enemies of the Ahl-ul-Bayt (AS) in order to demean Imam Ali and his household (AS) and give some status to Umar.  Such a marriage certainly did not take place at all.

Imam Ali, the son of Abi Talib (peace be upon them), had two daughters from Lady Fatimah al-Zahra' peace be upon her, the beloved daughter of the holy Prophet Muhammad may Allah bless him and his pure family. They were Zaynab and Umm_Kolthoum peace be upon them.
Lady Zaynab married her cousin Abdullah the son of Ja'far ibn Abi_Talib - also known as Ja'far al-Tayyar. Ja'far al-Tayyar, who on the orders of the prophet headed the Muslims who migrated to Abyssinia , is the brother of Imam Ali peace be upon them.

Lady Umm_Kolthoum married her cousin Muhammad/Sa'id the son of Aqeel ibn Abi_Talib. Aqeel ibn Abi Talib is the elder brother of Imam Ali ibn Abi Talib.

iceman

Re: Umar married Umm Kulthoom bint Ali - ayotollah Sistani
« Reply #9 on: April 07, 2020, 01:17:21 PM »
Umm Kulthoom was the second daughter of ‘Ali and Fatimah, and the youngets of their four children. She was born in about the year 6 AH. She became of marriagable age during the khilafah of ‘Umar ibn al-Khattab, and the khalifah asked for her hand in marriage. This is recorded by Ibn Sa‘d in his work at-Tabaqat al-Kubra (vol. 8 p. 338, ed. Muhammad ‘Ab al-Qadir ‘Ata, Dar al-Kutub al-‘Ilmiyyah, Beirut 1990).

OK, why didn't Umar ask for the elder daughter's had in marriage, Zaynab? Was he waiting for another one to be born? Or did he want to get a bit more older before he could ask Ali for a hand in marriage?

iceman

Re: Umar married Umm Kulthoom bint Ali - ayotollah Sistani
« Reply #10 on: April 07, 2020, 01:50:21 PM »
Any thoughts lads
« Last Edit: April 07, 2020, 01:51:34 PM by iceman »

iceman

Re: Umar married Umm Kulthoom bint Ali - ayotollah Sistani
« Reply #11 on: April 07, 2020, 02:07:43 PM »
Any thoughts lads

What do you make of this lads.

so many times I hear Sunni’s come forth and say that Umm Kulthum(as), daughter of Imam Ali(as) was married to Omar. Wrong!!! Let me set the record straight now, incase you were misinformed by your politician of a Sheikh. She was NOT married to him, here Husband was Aun bin Ja’far, who was the son of Imam Ali’s(as) brother. Mathematically it can be proven that she was not married to Omar. According to the politicians, Umm Kulthum and Omar ibn al-Khattab were married in the year 17 Hijri, when Umm Kulthum was 4 or 5 years old. That means she would have been born around the year 12 or 13 Hijri. So you mean Imam Ali(as) allowed his daughter to marry at 4 or 5 years old? Wow, anything to try to justify their idols. Anyways, now we expose these liars. If the Prophet Muhammad(saw) died in the year 11 Hijri, and Fatimah al-Zahra(as) died 6 months later, how in the world could Umm Kuthum(as) have been born after the death of her Mother(as). Even Sahih Bukhari confirms she died 6 months later. Sahih Bukhari:Volume:5 Book:59 Hadith:546.

Next they mark her(as) death in 50 Hijir, but how is that possible when she was present in Karbala when Imam Hussein(as) was martyred in the year 61 Hijri. Yes, she remarried her cousin Abdullah ibn Jafar ibn Abu Talib, after the death of her sister Zeinab(as), who was married to him before her. But that’s it, that is the only two times she married so what the are these politicians talking about. So just who did Omar marry……… Umm Kalthum bint Abu bakr. Let me explain so it all makes sense.

Omar did not just have one wife named umm Kulthum, he had a total of FIVE wives by that name.

Umm Kulthum bint Jarwila Khizima, Umm Kulthum bint Uqba, Umm Kulthum bint Rahab, Umm Kulthum bint Asim, and then finally Umm Kulthum bint Abu Bakr.

She was born after the death of her father in the year 13 hijri, her mother is Asma bint Umays. She was pregnant with her when Abu Bakr died. They also had one more child before her, guess who, Muhammad ibn Abu Bakr. A true companion of Imam Ali(as). So just how did she get the title bint Ali. If you clicked on her mothers name, you would have read a brief bio on her and put two and two together, but I will explain it anyway’s. Asma bint Umays Married Imam Ali(as) after the death of Abu bakr. Imam Ali(as) loved Muhammad ibn Abu bakr very much. So he married his mother shortly to take him in as his own. Son naturally Imam Ali(as) moved them into his home. Now if you do the math that was done earlier on this Umm Kulthum, it works out according to the Sunni hadith.

Also note: Omar did not go to Imam Ali(as) to ask for her hand but he sent word to Aisha, her older sister, and she accepted. So in conclusion Umm Kulthum(as) bint Imam Ali(as) did NOT marry Omar.

What do you make of the above.

TAHIR

Re: Umar married Umm Kulthoom bint Ali - ayotollah Sistani
« Reply #12 on: April 07, 2020, 05:02:40 PM »
Ice man

I told you ,you have made fard upon yourself to speak whatever nonsense you can.instead of clarifying what sistani says ,he goes as skullduggery of sunni books .

In any case :
How do you explain the ahadith in al kafi which are authentic on this subject


http://www.revivingalislam.com/2010/12/umars-marriage-to-umm-kulthum.html?m=1

iceman

Re: Umar married Umm Kulthoom bint Ali - ayotollah Sistani
« Reply #13 on: April 07, 2020, 06:33:16 PM »
Ice man

I told you ,you have made fard upon yourself to speak whatever nonsense you can.instead of clarifying what sistani says ,he goes as skullduggery of sunni books .

In any case :
How do you explain the ahadith in al kafi which are authentic on this subject


http://www.revivingalislam.com/2010/12/umars-marriage-to-umm-kulthum.html?m=1

It seems to me that you don't like discussing things. Al Kafi or Sistani, why is it that you just go around picking up one bit or piece from one book or just one scholar and try to justify that as the entire belief of the Shia community or the entire Shia belief and faith just depends on that bit and piece since it suits you and goes with your mindset.

TAHIR

Re: Umar married Umm Kulthoom bint Ali - ayotollah Sistani
« Reply #14 on: April 08, 2020, 09:06:55 AM »
It seems to me that you don't like discussing things. Al Kafi or Sistani, why is it that you just go around picking up one bit or piece from one book or just one scholar and try to justify that as the entire belief of the Shia community or the entire Shia belief and faith just depends on that bit and piece since it suits you and goes with your mindset.

If authentic ahadith from masoomeen doesn't constitute evidence for you i wonder what else does?
Listen sistani is a giant scholar he says marraige did occur
Khoei the legend scholar as per Shia ,he say yes
Fadlullaha of lebonan says a yes
I can also bring classical scholar testimonies only if you seeked truth

TAHIR

Re: Umar married Umm Kulthoom bint Ali - ayotollah Sistani
« Reply #15 on: April 08, 2020, 09:31:16 AM »
I'm putting this forward that I came across. You tell me what you think and make of it. Lets get to the bottom of this tale.

Is there a hadith about the daughter of Imam Ali (As) who was asked in marriage by the second caliph Umar?  Did a marriage take place at all?

Answer
Bismillah al-Rahmaan al-Raheem
The short answer to this question is yes there are hadiths that attempt to suggest that Umar bin al-Khattaab asked for the daughter of Imam Ali (AS). The hadiths that are reported in such sunny hadith books as the book of al-Estee'aab by Ibn Abd-el-Birr, the book of Taareekh Baghdaad by al-Khateeb al-Baghdaadi, and the book of al-Esaabah by Ibn Hajar are quite clearly false and un-authentic; not only on the basis of the narrators of the hadiths, but also on the basis of the content of the hadiths.
In one hadith "Umar asks Imam Ali (AS) for his daughter in marriage, and Imam Ali (AS) asks him to leave and then Imam Ali asks his daughter to go to Umar, and when she arrives Umar asks her to marry him, and places his hand on her leg and uncovers her leg!!!!!!  She immediately says to him you do this to me!  If you were not the ruler I would have broken your nose. And she leaves the room. She tells Imam Ali of what happened and added 'You sent me to a vile old man.'  But Ali nevertheless marries her to him!"  al-Estee'aab  4/1954.

In another hadith "Umar asks Imam Ali (AS) for his daughter in marriage, and Imam Ali (AS) asks him to leave and then Imam Ali asks his daughter to make herself beautiful to go to Umar!!!  And when Umar saw her he placed his hand on her leg and asked her to marry him . . . when she came back to her father Imam Ali asked her what did Umar tell you, she replied Umar kissed me and placed his hand on my leg and asked me to marry him.  Then Ali married her to him!!!!!"  Taareekh Baghdaad 6/182.
Ibn Hajar reports in his book al-Esaabah that "Umar asks Imam Ali (AS) for his daughter Umm Kolthum (AS) in marriage, and Imam Ali (AS) asks him to leave and then Imam Ali asks his daughter to go to Umar, and when she arrives Umar placed his hand on her leg and uncovers her leg!!!!!!  The daughter of Imam Ali (AS) says to him if you were not the ruler I would have gouged your eyes . . . ." al-Esaabah 4/321.

If the above narrations are true then the behaviour of Umar according to such hadiths has been so fouls and abhorrent that many sunny scholars have been put to shame.  Because such behaviour is not only disgraceful, but it is also totally haram according to Islam.  One of the top sunny scholars, Ibn Jawzey, states in his book "Tathkirat Khawas al-Ummah" p 321: "And by Allah this is vile and despicable, even if she was a slave Umar may not have done this to her, and furthermore in accordance with the unanimous consensus of the scholars of the Muslims, the touching of a non-Mahram is not allowed, then how this hadith can be attributed to Umar?"

As you can see these hadiths are totally false and any respectable and honourable Muslim would not send his daughter to the house of another man or agree to such abhorrent behaviour let alone agreeing to marrying his daughter.  These hadiths have been placed by the enemies of Imam Ali (AS) and the enemies of the Ahl-ul-Bayt (AS) in order to demean Imam Ali and his household (AS) and give some status to Umar.  Such a marriage certainly did not take place at all.

Imam Ali, the son of Abi Talib (peace be upon them), had two daughters from Lady Fatimah al-Zahra' peace be upon her, the beloved daughter of the holy Prophet Muhammad may Allah bless him and his pure family. They were Zaynab and Umm_Kolthoum peace be upon them.
Lady Zaynab married her cousin Abdullah the son of Ja'far ibn Abi_Talib - also known as Ja'far al-Tayyar. Ja'far al-Tayyar, who on the orders of the prophet headed the Muslims who migrated to Abyssinia , is the brother of Imam Ali peace be upon them.

Lady Umm_Kolthoum married her cousin Muhammad/Sa'id the son of Aqeel ibn Abi_Talib. Aqeel ibn Abi Talib is the elder brother of Imam Ali ibn Abi Talib.

The part of unveiling the leg which you build your whole argument upon is weak.
Albani (r.a) in silsilaha sahihia says ,this part reachs us through three chains
Ist chain :
إبراهيم بن مهران بن رستم المروزي : حدثنا الليث بن سعد القيسي - هو مولى بني رفاعة في سنة إحدى و سبعين و مائة بمصر - عن موسى بن علي بن رباح اللخمي عن أبيه عن عقبة بن عامر قال :


The claimity with the ist chain is ibraheem Ibn mehran bin rustum bin marwazi
And he is majhool ( unknown)
Second chain

جعفر بن محمد عن أبيه ( زاد بعضهم : عن علي بن الحسين"

So the chain terminates at Ali ibn Hussain and there is a gap between him and umar (r.a) as well as him and um kulthum (r.a)
So their is a discontinuity in the narration (inqita) and hence weak

Third chain
أبي جعفر محمد بن علي بن الحسين الباقر قال : قال عمر ...
This one is from son of Ali bin Hussain
I-e imam baqir
Who says Umar said thus two narrators are.missing from this one so again weak .

http://carihadis.com/Silsilah_Shahihah_Albani/2036

TAHIR

Re: Umar married Umm Kulthoom bint Ali - ayotollah Sistani
« Reply #16 on: April 08, 2020, 09:52:45 AM »
Now we get  you authentic Sunni ahadith
Which prove the marraige beyond doubt and i am translating the article of zubair Ali zai (r.a) from urdu for this
1.Narrated Tha`laba bin Abi Malik: `Umar bin Al-Khattab distributed some garments amongst the women of Medina. One good garment remained, and one of those present with him said, O chief of the believers! Give this garment to your wife, the (grand) daughter of Allah's Apostle. They meant Um Kulthum, the daughter of `Ali. `Umar said, Um Salit has more right (to have it). Um Salit was amongst those Ansari women who had given the pledge of allegiance to Allah's Apostle.' `Umar said, She (i.e. Um Salit) used to carry the water skins for us on the day of Uhud.
(Al Bukhari no 2881)
2.ووضعت جنازۃ ام کلثوم بنت علی امراۃ عمر بن الخطاب و ابن لھا یقال لہ زید۔۔"
And umm kulthum (r.a) bint Ali (r.a) funeral was placed ,and with it was placed (for) funeral her son who was called zaid

سنن النسائی 71-72/4 حدیث 1980، و سندہ صحیح 
3.عن ابن عمر انہ صلی علی اخیہ و امہ ام کلثوم بنت علی۔۔۔
Ibn Umar (r.a) (lead) the funeral prayer of his mother umm kulthum bint Ali and his brother (zaid )
مسند علی بن الجعد: 593 و سندہ صحیح، 
4.4۔ عبداللہ البہی رحمہ اللہ (تابعی صدوق) سے روایت ہے کہ :

"شھدت ابن عمر صلی علیٰ ام کلثوم و زید بن عمر بن الخطاب


Abdullah ibn bayah (a sudook or thiqa ) tabiee says i witnessed ibn Umar(r.a) (lead) the funeral prayer of umm kulthum and zaid ibn Umar al khattab
ابن سعد 468/8 و سندہ حسن

TAHIR

Re: Umar married Umm Kulthoom bint Ali - ayotollah Sistani
« Reply #17 on: April 08, 2020, 10:18:37 AM »
What do you make of this lads.

so many times I hear Sunni’s come forth and say that Umm Kulthum(as), daughter of Imam Ali(as) was married to Omar. Wrong!!! Let me set the record straight now, incase you were misinformed by your politician of a Sheikh. She was NOT married to him, here Husband was Aun bin Ja’far, who was the son of Imam Ali’s(as) brother. Mathematically it can be proven that she was not married to Omar. According to the politicians, Umm Kulthum and Omar ibn al-Khattab were married in the year 17 Hijri, when Umm Kulthum was 4 or 5 years old. That means she would have been born around the year 12 or 13 Hijri. So you mean Imam Ali(as) allowed his daughter to marry at 4 or 5 years old? Wow, anything to try to justify their idols. Anyways, now we expose these liars. If the Prophet Muhammad(saw) died in the year 11 Hijri, and Fatimah al-Zahra(as) died 6 months later, how in the world could Umm Kuthum(as) have been born after the death of her Mother(as). Even Sahih Bukhari confirms she died 6 months later. Sahih Bukhari:Volume:5 Book:59 Hadith:546.

Next they mark her(as) death in 50 Hijir, but how is that possible when she was present in Karbala when Imam Hussein(as) was martyred in the year 61 Hijri. Yes, she remarried her cousin Abdullah ibn Jafar ibn Abu Talib, after the death of her sister Zeinab(as), who was married to him before her. But that’s it, that is the only two times she married so what the are these politicians talking about. So just who did Omar marry……… Umm Kalthum bint Abu bakr. Let me explain so it all makes sense.

Omar did not just have one wife named umm Kulthum, he had a total of FIVE wives by that name.

Umm Kulthum bint Jarwila Khizima, Umm Kulthum bint Uqba, Umm Kulthum bint Rahab, Umm Kulthum bint Asim, and then finally Umm Kulthum bint Abu Bakr.

She was born after the death of her father in the year 13 hijri, her mother is Asma bint Umays. She was pregnant with her when Abu Bakr died. They also had one more child before her, guess who, Muhammad ibn Abu Bakr. A true companion of Imam Ali(as). So just how did she get the title bint Ali. If you clicked on her mothers name, you would have read a brief bio on her and put two and two together, but I will explain it anyway’s. Asma bint Umays Married Imam Ali(as) after the death of Abu bakr. Imam Ali(as) loved Muhammad ibn Abu bakr very much. So he married his mother shortly to take him in as his own. Son naturally Imam Ali(as) moved them into his home. Now if you do the math that was done earlier on this Umm Kulthum, it works out according to the Sunni hadith.

Also note: Omar did not go to Imam Ali(as) to ask for her hand but he sent word to Aisha, her older sister, and she accepted. So in conclusion Umm Kulthum(as) bint Imam Ali(as) did NOT marry Omar.

What do you make of the above.
The number game doesn't avail anything



 
Question: regarding age of umm kulthum (r.a)at marraige
Answer:
It is permissible to propose to a young girl, even a baby girl, and her father has the right to unite her in wedlock, but her husband is not allowed to have sexual intercourse with her until she is mature. In the collections of Al-Bukhari and Muslim, it is narrated from 'Aa'ishah, may Allaah pleased with her, who said that "the Messenger of Allaah  sallallaahu  `alayhi  wa  sallam ( may  Allaah exalt his mention ) joined me in marriage when I was seven years old and consummated the marriage with me when I was nine years old." This is the wording of Muslim.

According to biographers like Ibn 'Abd al-Baarr  may  Allaah  have  mercy  upon  him in his book Al-Istee'ab and Ibn Hajar  may  Allaah  have  mercy  upon  him in Al-Isaabah, Umar ibn Al-Khattaab  may  Allaah  be  pleased  with  him proposed to Umm Kulthum, the daughter of 'Ali  may  Allaah  be  pleased  with  him but 'Ali  may  Allaah  be  pleased  with  him replied, "She is still young." Then Umar  may  Allaah  be  pleased  with  him proposed to her again, whereupon Ali  may  Allaah  be  pleased  with  him said, "I will send for her and if she accepts, she is your wife." Then, Ali  may  Allaah  be  pleased  with  him sent her to Umar  may  Allaah  be  pleased  with  him who unveiled her leg. She said, "Stop this! If you were not the Leader of the Believers, I would beat you."

Thus, Umar  may  Allaah  be  pleased  with  him accepted her as his wife and no narration stated her exact age. However, there is a discontinuity in the chain of narration and thus it is inauthentic as stated by Shaykh Al-Albaani  may  Allaah  have  mercy  upon  him.no narration stated her exact age. However, there is a discontinuity in the chain of narration and thus it is inauthentic as stated by Shaykh Al-Albaani  may  Allaah  have  mercy  upon  him. 

 

Allaah Knows best

https://www.islamweb.net/en/fatwa/85645/age-of-umm-kulthum-when-she-married-umar-may-allaah-be-pleased-with-him
« Last Edit: April 08, 2020, 10:23:24 AM by TAHIR »

TAHIR

Re: Umar married Umm Kulthoom bint Ali - ayotollah Sistani
« Reply #18 on: April 08, 2020, 10:38:56 AM »
Ice man asks
Quote
.so many times I hear Sunni’s come forth and say that Umm Kulthum(as), daughter of Imam Ali(as) was married to Omar. Wrong!!! Let me set the record straight now, incase you were misinformed by your politician of a Sheikh. She was NOT married to him, here Husband was Aun bin Ja’far, who was the son of Imam Ali’s(as) brother. Mathematically it can be proven that she was not married to Omar. According to the politicians, Umm Kulthum and Omar ibn al-Khattab were married in the year 17 Hijri, when Umm Kulthum was 4 or 5 years old. That means she would have been born around the year 12 or 13 Hijri. So you mean Imam Ali(as) allowed his daughter to marry at 4 or 5 years old? Wow, anything to try to justify their idols. Anyways, now we expose these liars. If the Prophet Muhammad(saw) died in the year 11 Hijri, and Fatimah al-Zahra(as) died 6 months later, how in the world could Umm Kuthum(as) have been born after the death of her Mother(as). Even Sahih Bukhari confirms she died 6 months later. Sahih Bukhari:Volume:5 Book:59 Hadith:546.
Ice man answers

Quote
.Umm Kulthoom was the second daughter of ‘Ali and Fatimah, and the youngets of their four children. She was born in about the year 6 AH. She became of marriagable age during the khilafah of ‘Umar ibn al-Khattab, and the khalifah asked for her hand in marriage. This is recorded by Ibn Sa‘d in his work at-Tabaqat al-Kubra (vol. 8 p. 338, ed. Muhammad ‘Ab al-Qadir ‘Ata, Dar al-Kutub al-‘Ilmiyyah, Beirut 1990).       

Any admins reading this exchange please take note of this
 .Wow, anything to try to justify their idols     

TAHIR

Re: Umar married Umm Kulthoom bint Ali - ayotollah Sistani
« Reply #19 on: April 08, 2020, 11:19:57 AM »
Quote
.   Next they mark her(as) death in 50 Hijir, but how is that possible when she was present in Karbala when Imam Hussein(as) was martyred in the year 61 Hijri. Yes, she remarried her cousin Abdullah ibn Jafar ibn Abu Talib, after the death of her sister Zeinab(as), who was married to him before her. But that’s it, that is the only two times she married so what the are these politicians talking about. So just who did Omar marry……… Umm Kalthum bint Abu bakr. Let me explain so it all makes sense.

Omar did not just have one wife named umm Kulthum, he had a total of FIVE wives by that name.

Umm Kulthum bint Jarwila Khizima, Umm Kulthum bint Uqba, Umm Kulthum bint Rahab, Umm Kulthum bint Asim, and then finally Umm Kulthum bint Abu Bakr.

She was born after the death of her father in the year 13 hijri, her mother is Asma bint Umays. She was pregnant with her when Abu Bakr died. They also had one more child before her, guess who, Muhammad ibn Abu Bakr. A true companion of Imam Ali(as). So just how did she get the title bint Ali. If you clicked on her mothers name, you would have read a brief bio on her and put two and two together, but I will explain it anyway’s. Asma bint Umays Married Imam Ali(as) after the death of Abu bakr. Imam Ali(as) loved Muhammad ibn Abu bakr very much. So he married his mother shortly to take him in as his own. Son naturally Imam Ali(as) moved them into his home. Now if you do the math that was done earlier on this Umm Kulthum, it works out according to the Sunni hadith.

Also note: Omar did not go to Imam Ali(as) to ask for her hand but he sent word to Aisha, her older sister, and she accepted. So in conclusion Umm Kulthum(as) bint Imam Ali(as) did NOT marry Omar.     

No refrence so who cares

 

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