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Video: Are the Shia Disbelievers? | Analysis (& Comment on Imran Hosein)

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MuslimK

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  • یا مقلب القلوب ثبت قلبی علی دینک
    • Refuting Shia allegations everywhere
  • Religion: Sunni
Re: Video: Are the Shia Disbelievers? | Analysis (& Comment on Imran Hosein)
« Reply #20 on: February 26, 2017, 11:08:22 AM »

salaam alaykum brother, just need a clarification, do you believe that those who have the beliefs you mentioned above to still be muslims?

or those issues don't take one outta the folds of Islam.

Walaikum Salam wr wb,

No, he said those beliefs take one out of the fold of Islam.
در خلافت میل نیست ای بی‌خبر
میل کی آید ز بوبکر و عمر
میل اگر بودی در آن دو مقتدا
هر دو کردندی پسر را پیشوا

عطار نِیشابوری

www.Nahjul-Balagha.net | www.TwelverShia.net | www.ghadirkhumm.com

MuslimK

  • *****
  • Total likes: 255
  • +19/-0
  • یا مقلب القلوب ثبت قلبی علی دینک
    • Refuting Shia allegations everywhere
  • Religion: Sunni
Re: Video: Are the Shia Disbelievers? | Analysis (& Comment on Imran Hosein)
« Reply #21 on: February 26, 2017, 11:18:20 AM »
salam
I found this, saying (among other things):-
 1. shias (of Ali) were present during the life time of Rasulullah saw.
2. What could possibly have prevented Rasulullah saw from stopping these people, from being Shias (of Ali), if indeed they were deviants?.

Any thoughts? tq.
Walaikum Salam wr wb,

Funny article.

None of the reports are reliable. They are from the weakest of reports and narrations. They also contradict established history that the Shias first appeared during the caliphate of Ali as his political supporters against Muawiyah. They were Sunni in their beliefs but Political Shiis totally different from the theological Shia sects we know today. They didn't exist and were known before that period. Tell the Shia to prove their authenticity. Thus, the two questions listed becomes void.

Ironically, we also have reports from Prophet (saw) who said "Uthman and his followers are the sucessful ones".
در خلافت میل نیست ای بی‌خبر
میل کی آید ز بوبکر و عمر
میل اگر بودی در آن دو مقتدا
هر دو کردندی پسر را پیشوا

عطار نِیشابوری

www.Nahjul-Balagha.net | www.TwelverShia.net | www.ghadirkhumm.com

aboouthaymeen

Re: Video: Are the Shia Disbelievers? | Analysis (& Comment on Imran Hosein)
« Reply #22 on: February 26, 2017, 11:35:42 AM »


Walaikum Salam wr wb,

No, he said those beliefs take one out of the fold of Islam.

alright akh, jazakallâh khayr
و كل خير في اتباع من سلف و كل شر في ابتداء من خلف

wannabe

Re: Video: Are the Shia Disbelievers? | Analysis (& Comment on Imran Hosein)
« Reply #23 on: February 28, 2017, 07:20:07 AM »
salam
I found this, saying (among other things):-
 1. shias (of Ali) were present during the life time of Rasulullah saw.
2. What could possibly have prevented Rasulullah saw from stopping these people, from being Shias (of Ali), if indeed they were deviants?.

Any thoughts? tq.
Walaikum Salam wr wb,

Funny article.

None of the reports are reliable. They are from the weakest of reports and narrations. They also contradict established history that the Shias first appeared during the caliphate of Ali as his political supporters against Muawiyah. They were Sunni in their beliefs but Political Shiis totally different from the theological Shia sects we know today. They didn't exist and were known before that period. Tell the Shia to prove their authenticity. Thus, the two questions listed becomes void.

Ironically, we also have reports from Prophet (saw) who said "Uthman and his followers are the sucessful ones".
Salam
so it boils down to proving  the authenticity of reports/narrations  that have reached us today.
i’m quoting from http://www.islamic-awareness.org/Hadith/Ulum/hadsciences.html:
.... “The methodology of the expert scholars of hadith in assessing the narrations and sorting out the genuine from the mistaken and fabricated, forms the subject matter of the science of hadith. In this article a brief discussion is given of the terminology and classifications of hadith”.....
IMO (which has no bearing whatsoever on Islam), this is a best effort man-made system: meaning it’s not flawless; it’s not perfect. But I believe, if the reports/narrations are fully endorsed by qur’anic verses, then no muslims can reject them bcos rejecting the truth witnessed by Quran means they are taken out from the fold of islam. Hence I think, my 2 previous questions from my first post in this thread, are quite relevant:
1. are they any reports/narrations, saying shias are disbelievers?
2. any qur’anic verses supporting the truthfullness of such report/narration?
If the answers to both is a big yes, it makes sense to me to call them disbelievers. Otherwise, to follow any fatwas with “Allah knows best” as their endings, is a risky business to one’s home in akhirat.
It will be comforting though if one can bring reports/narrations with qur'anic verse(s) witnessing their truth, that what one is upon, is the true path, before indulging in this takfir business, which benefits no one, imo.
Allah knows best.

 

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