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6th Imam Modifies Muta Rules Based on Settings

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Rationalist

6th Imam Modifies Muta Rules Based on Settings
« on: November 16, 2019, 11:33:42 PM »
In this clip Rizvi says that the 6th Imam made Muta a sunnah just to make sure the Shias at the time can get the message that Muta is halaal.  ???

Refer to the 21 minute mark.



Again I am noticing that 12er Shia these days are no longer Sheep. They will no longer accept such  excuses from these Zakirs.
« Last Edit: November 16, 2019, 11:42:36 PM by Rationalist »

Rationalist

Re: 6th Imam Modifies Muta Rules Based on Settings
« Reply #1 on: November 16, 2019, 11:44:42 PM »
Now there is a big problem with Umar who heard  people doing muta and making it haraam, but for some reason the 6th Imam can make it haraam for his friends who will give him a bad reputation.

Refer to 27:30 minute mark.



iceman

Re: 6th Imam Modifies Muta Rules Based on Settings
« Reply #2 on: November 22, 2019, 12:03:17 AM »
The following post answers everything you're trying to put forward.

To cut this very short since the gents are going all over the place with this. They're trying their best to avoid the main question which is severely bothering them. DID THE PROPHET S.A.W REALLY BAN MUT'AH? Any knowledgeable Sunni out there who can justify this ban by giving a clear explanation of why it was banned. What exactly was the reason and purpose. Is your faith and belief that weak that you can't come up with anything. Or are you just going by the wind that Muhammad s.a.w didn't ban it but someone else did along the line. And you just want to camouflage that by saying Muhammad s.a.w banned it. Where are the hot shots. We hear a lot about the Shias from you. You're quick at that. Lets see how good and quick you are at justifying a part of your belief and faith. 😊 All the best. Take your time. Believe me you'll need it. Good luck!

Rationalist

Re: 6th Imam Modifies Muta Rules Based on Settings
« Reply #3 on: November 22, 2019, 10:50:40 PM »
Iceman  you have to learn to follow my post. I am not here to dispute whether Muta is Halaal or Haram. Whoever, does Muta has made a contract, which is not zina. The topic is about the 6th Imam and the 12er Shia contradiction on Muta. If you want to talk about the Sunni view open another topic.

The issue in this topic is if Muta was that openly halaal, why is the 6th Imam playing with the rules? Sometimes he says one must do it before they die. This was just to counter Sunni Faqihs? Then on the other hand, he also says keep Muta out of Madina? I heard the Rizvi's explanationa and they actually make the 6th Imam look bad.

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Re: 6th Imam Modifies Muta Rules Based on Settings
« Reply #4 on: November 23, 2019, 07:20:26 PM »
Now there is a big problem with Umar who heard  people doing muta and making it haraam, but for some reason the 6th Imam can make it haraam for his friends who will give him a bad reputation.

Refer to 27:30 minute mark.




Good catch!
در خلافت میل نیست ای بی‌خبر
میل کی آید ز بوبکر و عمر
میل اگر بودی در آن دو مقتدا
هر دو کردندی پسر را پیشوا

عطار نِیشابوری

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iceman

Re: 6th Imam Modifies Muta Rules Based on Settings
« Reply #5 on: November 23, 2019, 10:57:02 PM »
Iceman  you have to learn to follow my post. I am not here to dispute whether Muta is Halaal or Haram. Whoever, does Muta has made a contract, which is not zina. The topic is about the 6th Imam and the 12er Shia contradiction on Muta. If you want to talk about the Sunni view open another topic.

The issue in this topic is if Muta was that openly halaal, why is the 6th Imam playing with the rules? Sometimes he says one must do it before they die. This was just to counter Sunni Faqihs? Then on the other hand, he also says keep Muta out of Madina? I heard the Rizvi's explanationa and they actually make the 6th Imam look bad.

My post here wasn't for you. It's for those boys who bring about things just to undermine the Shia sect. Who don't want to talk and discuss but will just pick bits and pieces to make the other look bad. Discussing is something different. Having a poke or playing around is something else. Anyways point taken.

iceman

Re: 6th Imam Modifies Muta Rules Based on Settings
« Reply #6 on: November 24, 2019, 07:45:42 PM »
In this clip Rizvi says that the 6th Imam made Muta a sunnah just to make sure the Shias at the time can get the message that Muta is halaal.  ???

Refer to the 21 minute mark.



Again I am noticing that 12er Shia these days are no longer Sheep. They will no longer accept such  excuses from these Zakirs.

Ok. I've been through the whole clip. Now what seems to be the problem here. I don't think I could have explained it any better. He's done a good job of responding to the documentary and made some valid points. It's a good response to the propagandists out there. He definitely put them in their place. I did speak on Mu'tah in a great detail on a thread on this site. It's not a common practice within the Shias. And like the honourable gentleman said that it is only for extreme or special circumstances. Now if someone misuses or abuses the law or any benefit or comfort  then why is that being brought to the door step of that community from which the person or the handful of misusers or abusers belong to. Why blame the law or benefit. Why not the misusers and the abusers.

Look the whole point of these threads infact such sites is to look for bits and pieces just to undermine the Shia faith and community which is really annoying them badly. Why? Because they unfortunately can't promote their own faith belief or school of thought. They see shiaism as some sort of threat or challenge to them and their school of thought. And such tactics against the Shia faith and community have been going on for a very long time indeed. As far as the documentary is concerned, I haven't seen it. And there is no need for me to see it. It's one sided and imbalanced. I can tell without even seeing it.

There is no sex trade within the Shia community just as and here it comes just as Sunnism and the Sunni schools of thought aren't connected to or promote terrorism. This is exactly how straight forward, honest, open minded and just we are. Just because a handful of people who call themselves Sunnis go out and commit terror offences in the name of Islam and their sect doesn't mean that because of them we are going to become so naive and low that we are going to start associating Sunni Islam with terror.

iceman

Re: 6th Imam Modifies Muta Rules Based on Settings
« Reply #7 on: November 24, 2019, 07:56:59 PM »
Now there is a big problem with Umar who heard  people doing muta and making it haraam, but for some reason the 6th Imam can make it haraam for his friends who will give him a bad reputation.

Refer to 27:30 minute mark.


"Now there is a big problem with Umar who heard  people doing muta and making it haraam, but for some reason the 6th Imam can make it haraam for his friends who will give him a bad reputation"

Rather than jumping the gun first get the facts right. Did Muhammad s.a.w ban it or did Umar ban it. Work this out first. Now the answer to your question or the explanation to your query and concern. Lets say Umar banned Mu'tah and the Shias have a problem with that. But if the 6th Imam bans it then that's fine.

Lets look at this. Point 1, Umar banned it. Did he ban it completely. Why did he banned it. What was the reason. Point 2, The 6th Imam banned Mu'tah. Did he really. What absolutely and completely. What a total ban. See what I mean. In the clip the Shia scholar makes it clear that it depends what the circumstances are. What conditions you face or which situation you find yourself.

These are the things we and you most certainly need to look at and bring into consideration. This is how you gents need to proceed. But it's obvious that your justice, honesty and fairness goes straight out of the flaming window when it comes to us.

iceman

Re: 6th Imam Modifies Muta Rules Based on Settings
« Reply #8 on: November 24, 2019, 08:05:15 PM »
https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://m.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DTnsJ38_Ppwc&ved=2ahUKEwi5s-XIqYPmAhWAXRUIHQdPAwIQwqsBMAJ6BAgKEAo&usg=AOvVaw2Q1Z8OpmVPAPM36vpLChWh

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://m.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3D7XDfcp3YwEg&ved=2ahUKEwjomu3cqoPmAhVNQxUIHSxOC7oQwqsBMAN6BAgGEA0&usg=AOvVaw1zG2KdxHPf8ncMuousRSZd

Now cow meat is halal. Lets say Umar banned it completely and absolutely. And Sunnis gave no explanation what so ever over it. Just banned. Cow meat is Halal in Islam and according to Shiaism. Now lets say that the 6th Imam considering it halal banned it due to extreme circumstances shown in the video clips above in those areas and places and for those Shia Muslims because of unrest due to rising tensions then..... See the difference. There is no comparison. Do some homework and look into things rather than blindly jumping on to the anti Shia bandwagon.
« Last Edit: November 24, 2019, 08:13:48 PM by iceman »

Rationalist

Re: 6th Imam Modifies Muta Rules Based on Settings
« Reply #9 on: November 25, 2019, 02:43:46 AM »
https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://m.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DTnsJ38_Ppwc&ved=2ahUKEwi5s-XIqYPmAhWAXRUIHQdPAwIQwqsBMAJ6BAgKEAo&usg=AOvVaw2Q1Z8OpmVPAPM36vpLChWh

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://m.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3D7XDfcp3YwEg&ved=2ahUKEwjomu3cqoPmAhVNQxUIHSxOC7oQwqsBMAN6BAgGEA0&usg=AOvVaw1zG2KdxHPf8ncMuousRSZd

Now cow meat is halal. Lets say Umar banned it completely and absolutely. And Sunnis gave no explanation what so ever over it. Just banned. Cow meat is Halal in Islam and according to Shiaism. Now lets say that the 6th Imam considering it halal banned it due to extreme circumstances shown in the video clips above in those areas and places and for those Shia Muslims because of unrest due to rising tensions then..... See the difference. There is no comparison. Do some homework and look into things rather than blindly jumping on to the anti Shia bandwagon.

This is flawed analogy. So we have hadith from the same 6th Imam who makes it a Sunnah, and then we have him doing taqiyyah saying do not abuse it because it will backfire? Both happened? 
As for Umar I don't think he was very knowledgeable in fiqh. He was a great ruler, but his knowledge wasn't that great.

iceman

Re: 6th Imam Modifies Muta Rules Based on Settings
« Reply #10 on: December 04, 2019, 11:09:32 AM »
This is flawed analogy. So we have hadith from the same 6th Imam who makes it a Sunnah, and then we have him doing taqiyyah saying do not abuse it because it will backfire? Both happened? 
As for Umar I don't think he was very knowledgeable in fiqh. He was a6 great ruler, but his knowledge wasn't that great.
This is flawed analogy"

Just because you said it doesn't mean it. Prove to me how. Give me an explanation on how. If you had one you would have already given one. The video clip you put forward the scholar Rizvi has explained it very clearly. All you're doing is taking things out of context from that clip and twisting and turning it to satisfy your desire.

Rationalist

Re: 6th Imam Modifies Muta Rules Based on Settings
« Reply #11 on: December 04, 2019, 06:00:39 PM »
This is flawed analogy"

Just because you said it doesn't mean it. Prove to me how. Give me an explanation on how. If you had one you would have already given one. The video clip you put forward the scholar Rizvi has explained it very clearly. All you're doing is taking things out of context from that clip and twisting and turning it to satisfy your desire.

Rizvi putting into context makes no sense. He says in the 6th Imam's time he had one fiqh rules and than the other Imam's time another rule. However he also says in the 6th Imam's time it was made a Sunnah and discourged. So the same Imam in reality really contradicts himself.

iceman

Re: 6th Imam Modifies Muta Rules Based on Settings
« Reply #12 on: December 04, 2019, 09:49:35 PM »
Rizvi putting into context makes no sense. He says in the 6th Imam's time he had one fiqh rules and than the other Imam's time another rule. However he also says in the 6th Imam's time it was made a Sunnah and discourged. So the same Imam in reality really contradicts himself.

The Imam doesn't contradict himself. Fiqh rulings are made and passed on due to circumstances, situations and conditions. It depends on what you face. Nothing awkward or difficult to understand. Listen to the clip clearly but with an open mind.

Rationalist

Re: 6th Imam Modifies Muta Rules Based on Settings
« Reply #13 on: December 04, 2019, 11:49:02 PM »
The Imam doesn't contradict himself. Fiqh rulings are made and passed on due to circumstances, situations and conditions. It depends on what you face. Nothing awkward or difficult to understand. Listen to the clip clearly but with an open mind.

Sure I agree with that. However, to make something a Sunnah when its not still does not open my mind how its possible.

 

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