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Hadith of two weighty things NOT approved by any of the six Hadith books

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Optimus Prime

According to this guy:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hS4ZSTl_RDo

This is in Arabic.

Optimus Prime

The Hadith where the Prophet (SAW) said, I'm leaving you two things: "The Qur'an and the Sunnah" is from what source, and it's weak, right?

But, the Hadith where the Prophet (SAW) said I'm leaving you two things: "The Qur'an and my Ahlul Bhait" is authentic, right?


Hani

My friend I repeat, please post your topics in their respective sections, I had to move this from "general" to "Hadith-Rijal". You're discussing the authenticity of this Hadith are you not?
عَلامَةُ أَهْلِ الْبِدَعِ الْوَقِيعَةُ فِي أَهْلِ الأَثَرِ. وَعَلامَةُ الْجَهْمِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُشَبِّهَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الْقَدَرِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُجَبِّرَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الزَّنَادِقَةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ الأَثَرِ حَشْوِيَّةً

Religion = simple & clear

Optimus Prime

My friend I repeat, please post your topics in their respective sections, I had to move this from "general" to "Hadith-Rijal". You're discussing the authenticity of this Hadith are you not?

Sorry, brother. I'll be more careful from now on.

Yes, the one where it's claimed he (SAW) said "Qur'an & Sunnah". Plus, to clarify whether the dude in the video who is saying the other version was never approved by the big 6.

Hani

The man in the video is a researcher and he doesn't fully research certain topics which results in him falling into great errors.
عَلامَةُ أَهْلِ الْبِدَعِ الْوَقِيعَةُ فِي أَهْلِ الأَثَرِ. وَعَلامَةُ الْجَهْمِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُشَبِّهَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الْقَدَرِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُجَبِّرَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الزَّنَادِقَةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ الأَثَرِ حَشْوِيَّةً

Religion = simple & clear

Optimus Prime

The man in the video is a researcher and he doesn't fully research certain topics which results in him falling into great errors.

What errors did he make in this video?

I asked you once on HCY regarding the narration above, but I can't find it.

Hani

Didn't watch that video.

But he makes errors of laziness, due to him reading something and not verifying it, such as claiming that ibn Saba' is only found in Sayf's narrations, obviously not accurate.
عَلامَةُ أَهْلِ الْبِدَعِ الْوَقِيعَةُ فِي أَهْلِ الأَثَرِ. وَعَلامَةُ الْجَهْمِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُشَبِّهَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الْقَدَرِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُجَبِّرَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الزَّنَادِقَةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ الأَثَرِ حَشْوِيَّةً

Religion = simple & clear

Optimus Prime

Didn't watch that video.

But he makes errors of laziness, due to him reading something and not verifying it, such as claiming that ibn Saba' is only found in Sayf's narrations, obviously not accurate.

To be specific is the version of that states "Qur'an and Sunnah" weak, and what is the source?

Is there a version where the Prophet (SAW) said "Quran and Ahlul Bhait" from Arafat or was it only said at Ghadir?

Hani

First question: There's a lot of narrations where the Prophet (saw) emphasized on the Qur'an and many where he emphasized on following his Sunnah, it's very possible that there's a narration here or there where both are mentioned in an authentic chain. However, I believe the narration of "Thaqalayn" is only referring to the Qur'an and Ahlul-Bayt, not the Sunnah, how can his own Sunnah be a Thaqal for him!? It's his own actions, they can't be a burden on him. Therefore, if you find a narration describing Qur'an and Sunnah as Thaqalayn, it is most likely weak.

Second question: Hadith-ul-Thaqalayn is itself Hadith-ul-Ghadeer, it's the same sermon he delivered at Ghadeer. If you find any narration mentioning Thaqalayn at `Arafat, then know for a fact it's weak since it's established that he never mentioned Thaqalayn at Hajj.
عَلامَةُ أَهْلِ الْبِدَعِ الْوَقِيعَةُ فِي أَهْلِ الأَثَرِ. وَعَلامَةُ الْجَهْمِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُشَبِّهَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الْقَدَرِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُجَبِّرَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الزَّنَادِقَةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ الأَثَرِ حَشْوِيَّةً

Religion = simple & clear

Furkan

I thought there were 1 or 2 sahih hadiths saying "quran and sunnah"
Before Qazî Mihemed, President of the first kurdish Republic Mahabad was hanged the iranian judge asked:

“last words?”

Qazî: “I thank Allah: even in death he put my shoes above your heads”

Invoker

The hadith stating Quran & Sunnah is found only in Muwatta of Malik ibn Anas (which is the first authentic book of hadith) who was an Arab & renowned scholar of Madina. The hadith mentioning Quran & Ahly Bayt is found in books written by the Persian scholars i.e the six books.


We also have hadith stating Quran alone. These can be found in the six books as well.

Optimus Prime

First question: There's a lot of narrations where the Prophet (saw) emphasized on the Qur'an and many where he emphasized on following his Sunnah, it's very possible that there's a narration here or there where both are mentioned in an authentic chain. However, I believe the narration of "Thaqalayn" is only referring to the Qur'an and Ahlul-Bayt, not the Sunnah, how can his own Sunnah be a Thaqal for him!? It's his own actions, they can't be a burden on him. Therefore, if you find a narration describing Qur'an and Sunnah as Thaqalayn, it is most likely weak.

Second question: Hadith-ul-Thaqalayn is itself Hadith-ul-Ghadeer, it's the same sermon he delivered at Ghadeer. If you find any narration mentioning Thaqalayn at `Arafat, then know for a fact it's weak since it's established that he never mentioned Thaqalayn at Hajj.

Jazak'Allah Hani.

Just to clarify, Thaqalayn was never mentioned at Haj? However, that same Sufi scholar (other thread) claims the Prophet (SAW) did, and even quoted a Hadith.

Optimus Prime

The hadith stating Quran & Sunnah is found only in Muwatta of Malik ibn Anas (which is the first authentic book of hadith) who was an Arab & renowned scholar of Madina. The hadith mentioning Quran & Ahly Bayt is found in books written by the Persian scholars i.e the six books.


We also have hadith stating Quran alone. These can be found in the six books as well.

Salaams bredrin Invoker,

Are the narration regarding Qur'an and Sunnah, authentic according to that scholar?

Optimus Prime

Here's a brother who did some analysis on the different versions of Hadith Thaqalayn. An interesting debate with a Shia.

http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/showthread.php?6741-Hadith-Thaqalayn

Hani

Jazak'Allah Hani.

Just to clarify, Thaqalayn was never mentioned at Haj? However, that same Sufi scholar (other thread) claims the Prophet (SAW) did, and even quoted a Hadith.

I know I heard him say it.

The Sufi Shaykh is a Wa`idh, not a Muhaddith, I wouldn't pay attention to any Hadith he quotes. Listen to him only to increase your faith and acquire wisdom, not for any other reason.
عَلامَةُ أَهْلِ الْبِدَعِ الْوَقِيعَةُ فِي أَهْلِ الأَثَرِ. وَعَلامَةُ الْجَهْمِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُشَبِّهَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الْقَدَرِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُجَبِّرَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الزَّنَادِقَةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ الأَثَرِ حَشْوِيَّةً

Religion = simple & clear

Muhammad Tazin

As I have seen the research made by our brothers of Twelvershia.net, the hadith which says to follow "Quran and Ahle Bait" are Weak.
The sahih Hadith says to keep in tied wit Quran, the first Thaqlain, and then Prophet(s.a.w.) moves to another thaqlain and tells people to remember Allah in the matter of Ahle Bait. Then the narrating sahaba explains that it's because sadaqa was forbidden for Ahle BAit

Furkan

The shaykh has great lectures, but in this case he might be lenient.
Before Qazî Mihemed, President of the first kurdish Republic Mahabad was hanged the iranian judge asked:

“last words?”

Qazî: “I thank Allah: even in death he put my shoes above your heads”

MuslimK

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Quran & Sunnah is in the Quran.


در خلافت میل نیست ای بی‌خبر
میل کی آید ز بوبکر و عمر
میل اگر بودی در آن دو مقتدا
هر دو کردندی پسر را پیشوا

عطار نِیشابوری

www.Nahjul-Balagha.net | www.TwelverShia.net | www.ghadirkhumm.com


 

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