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Sunni Shia Discussion Forum => Hadith-Rijal => Topic started by: Optimus Prime on December 02, 2014, 06:46:44 PM

Title: Hadith where Ali (RA) admits to Abbas (RA) he knows nothing about leadership
Post by: Optimus Prime on December 02, 2014, 06:46:44 PM
It's in Bukhar or Muslim.

Abbas (RA) tells Ali (RA) to go and speak to the Prophet (SAW) if he intends to leave the reins of leadership to them - Ahlul Bhayt (RA).

Then Ali (RA) refuses.

I can't find it.
Title: Re: Hadith where Ali (RA) admits to Abbas (RA) he knows nothing about leadership
Post by: Hani on December 02, 2014, 06:55:24 PM
It's two narrations, one in Sahih al-Bukhari/Muslim, it talks about how `Abbas told this to `Ali but `Ali refuses as he fears they might be denied.


The second is in the history books (i.e Tabari) also authentic, `Abbas reminds `Ali of this incident and complains about his nephew's poor choices during the consultation of the six men.
Title: Re: Hadith where Ali (RA) admits to Abbas (RA) he knows nothing about leadership
Post by: Optimus Prime on December 02, 2014, 07:06:04 PM
It's two narrations, one in Sahih al-Bukhari/Muslim, it talks about how `Abbas told this to `Ali but `Ali refuses as he fears they might be denied.


The second is in the history books (i.e Tabari) also authentic, `Abbas reminds `Ali of this incident and complains about his nephew's poor choices during the consultation of the six men.

Hani, can you post the narrations, please?
Title: Re: Hadith where Ali (RA) admits to Abbas (RA) he knows nothing about leadership
Post by: MuslimK on December 03, 2014, 12:57:05 PM

حَدَّثَنِي إِسْحَاقُ، أَخْبَرَنَا بِشْرُ بْنُ شُعَيْبِ بْنِ أَبِي حَمْزَةَ، قَالَ حَدَّثَنِي أَبِي، عَنِ الزُّهْرِيِّ، قَالَ أَخْبَرَنِي عَبْدُ اللَّهِ بْنُ كَعْبِ بْنِ مَالِكٍ الأَنْصَارِيُّ ـ وَكَانَ كَعْبُ بْنُ مَالِكٍ أَحَدَ الثَّلاَثَةِ الَّذِينَ تِيبَ عَلَيْهِمْ أَنَّ عَبْدَ اللَّهِ بْنَ عَبَّاسٍ أَخْبَرَهُ أَنَّ عَلِيَّ بْنَ أَبِي طَالِبٍ ـ رضى الله عنه ـ خَرَجَ مِنْ عِنْدِ رَسُولِ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم فِي وَجَعِهِ الَّذِي تُوُفِّيَ فِيهِ، فَقَالَ النَّاسُ يَا أَبَا حَسَنٍ، كَيْفَ أَصْبَحَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم فَقَالَ أَصْبَحَ بِحَمْدِ اللَّهِ بَارِئًا، فَأَخَذَ بِيَدِهِ عَبَّاسُ بْنُ عَبْدِ الْمُطَّلِبِ، فَقَالَ لَهُ أَنْتَ وَاللَّهِ بَعْدَ ثَلاَثٍ عَبْدُ الْعَصَا، وَإِنِّي وَاللَّهِ لأُرَى رَسُولَ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم سَوْفَ يُتَوَفَّى مِنْ وَجَعِهِ هَذَا، إِنِّي لأَعْرِفُ وُجُوهَ بَنِي عَبْدِ الْمُطَّلِبِ عِنْدَ الْمَوْتِ، اذْهَبْ بِنَا إِلَى رَسُولِ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم فَلْنَسْأَلْهُ فِيمَنْ هَذَا الأَمْرُ، إِنْ كَانَ فِينَا عَلِمْنَا ذَلِكَ، وَإِنْ كَانَ فِي غَيْرِنَا عَلِمْنَاهُ فَأَوْصَى بِنَا‏.‏ فَقَالَ عَلِيٌّ إِنَّا وَاللَّهِ لَئِنْ سَأَلْنَاهَا رَسُولَ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم فَمَنَعَنَاهَا لاَ يُعْطِينَاهَا النَّاسُ بَعْدَهُ، وَإِنِّي وَاللَّهِ لاَ أَسْأَلُهَا رَسُولَ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم‏.‏

Narrated `Abdullah bin `Abbas:

`Ali bin Abu Talib came out of the house of Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) during his fatal illness. The people asked, "O Abu Hasan (i.e. `Ali)! How is the health of Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) this morning?" `Ali replied, "He has recovered with the Grace of Allah." `Abbas bin `Abdul Muttalib held him by the hand and said to him, "In three days you, by Allah, will be ruled (by somebody else ), And by Allah, I feel that Allah's Apostle will die from this ailment of his, for I know how the faces of the offspring of `Abdul Muttalib look at the time of their death. So let us go to Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) and ask him who will take over the Caliphate. If it is given to us we will know as to it, and if it is given to somebody else, we will inform him so that he may tell the new ruler to take care of us."

`Ali said, "By Allah, if we asked Allah's Apostle for it (i.e. the Caliphate) and he denied it us, the people will never give it to us after that. And by Allah, I will not ask Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) for it."

Sahih Bukhari Vol. 5, Book 59, Hadith 728

http://sunnah.com/bukhari/64/467

Title: Re: Hadith where Ali (RA) admits to Abbas (RA) he knows nothing about leadership
Post by: Optimus Prime on December 03, 2014, 01:02:19 PM

حَدَّثَنِي إِسْحَاقُ، أَخْبَرَنَا بِشْرُ بْنُ شُعَيْبِ بْنِ أَبِي حَمْزَةَ، قَالَ حَدَّثَنِي أَبِي، عَنِ الزُّهْرِيِّ، قَالَ أَخْبَرَنِي عَبْدُ اللَّهِ بْنُ كَعْبِ بْنِ مَالِكٍ الأَنْصَارِيُّ ـ وَكَانَ كَعْبُ بْنُ مَالِكٍ أَحَدَ الثَّلاَثَةِ الَّذِينَ تِيبَ عَلَيْهِمْ أَنَّ عَبْدَ اللَّهِ بْنَ عَبَّاسٍ أَخْبَرَهُ أَنَّ عَلِيَّ بْنَ أَبِي طَالِبٍ ـ رضى الله عنه ـ خَرَجَ مِنْ عِنْدِ رَسُولِ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم فِي وَجَعِهِ الَّذِي تُوُفِّيَ فِيهِ، فَقَالَ النَّاسُ يَا أَبَا حَسَنٍ، كَيْفَ أَصْبَحَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم فَقَالَ أَصْبَحَ بِحَمْدِ اللَّهِ بَارِئًا، فَأَخَذَ بِيَدِهِ عَبَّاسُ بْنُ عَبْدِ الْمُطَّلِبِ، فَقَالَ لَهُ أَنْتَ وَاللَّهِ بَعْدَ ثَلاَثٍ عَبْدُ الْعَصَا، وَإِنِّي وَاللَّهِ لأُرَى رَسُولَ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم سَوْفَ يُتَوَفَّى مِنْ وَجَعِهِ هَذَا، إِنِّي لأَعْرِفُ وُجُوهَ بَنِي عَبْدِ الْمُطَّلِبِ عِنْدَ الْمَوْتِ، اذْهَبْ بِنَا إِلَى رَسُولِ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم فَلْنَسْأَلْهُ فِيمَنْ هَذَا الأَمْرُ، إِنْ كَانَ فِينَا عَلِمْنَا ذَلِكَ، وَإِنْ كَانَ فِي غَيْرِنَا عَلِمْنَاهُ فَأَوْصَى بِنَا‏.‏ فَقَالَ عَلِيٌّ إِنَّا وَاللَّهِ لَئِنْ سَأَلْنَاهَا رَسُولَ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم فَمَنَعَنَاهَا لاَ يُعْطِينَاهَا النَّاسُ بَعْدَهُ، وَإِنِّي وَاللَّهِ لاَ أَسْأَلُهَا رَسُولَ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم‏.‏

Narrated `Abdullah bin `Abbas:

`Ali bin Abu Talib came out of the house of Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) during his fatal illness. The people asked, "O Abu Hasan (i.e. `Ali)! How is the health of Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) this morning?" `Ali replied, "He has recovered with the Grace of Allah." `Abbas bin `Abdul Muttalib held him by the hand and said to him, "In three days you, by Allah, will be ruled (by somebody else ), And by Allah, I feel that Allah's Apostle will die from this ailment of his, for I know how the faces of the offspring of `Abdul Muttalib look at the time of their death. So let us go to Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) and ask him who will take over the Caliphate. If it is given to us we will know as to it, and if it is given to somebody else, we will inform him so that he may tell the new ruler to take care of us."

`Ali said, "By Allah, if we asked Allah's Apostle for it (i.e. the Caliphate) and he denied it us, the people will never give it to us after that. And by Allah, I will not ask Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) for it."

Sahih Bukhari Vol. 5, Book 59, Hadith 728

http://sunnah.com/bukhari/64/467



Jazak'Allah. what about the second narration, brother Hani was making reference to?
Title: Re: Hadith where Ali (RA) admits to Abbas (RA) he knows nothing about leadership
Post by: Hani on December 03, 2014, 01:38:42 PM
Tareekh al-Madinah:
http://library.islamweb.net/hadith/display_hbook.php?bk_no=159&hid=1481&pid=42082


قَالَ الْعَبَّاسُ (لعلي) : لَمْ أَرْفَعْكَ فِي شَيْءٍ إِلا رَجَعْتَ إِلَيَّ مُسْتَأْخِرًا بِمَا أَكْرَهُ ، أَشَرْتُ عَلَيْكَ عِنْدَ وَفَاةِ رَسُولِ اللَّهِ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ أَنْ تَسْأَلَهُ فِيمَنْ هَذَا الأَمْرُ فَأَبَيْتَ ، وَأَشَرْتُ عَلَيْكَ بَعْدَ وَفَاتِهِ أَنْ تُعَاجِلَ الأَمْرَ فَأَبَيْتَ ، وَأَشَرْتُ عَلَيْكَ حِينَ سَمَّاكَ عُمَرُ فِي الشُّورَى أَنْ لا تَدْخُلَ مَعَهُمْ فَأَبَيْتَ


[al-`Abbas told `Ali: I never sent you to do anything except you come back when it is too late with bad news, I advised you during the sickness of Rasul-Allah (saw) that you should ask him who would be in authority but you refused, I also advised you after his death to attend to this matter with haste but you refused, I also advised you to not participate in the consultation when `Umar named you but you refused.]
Title: Re: Hadith where Ali (RA) admits to Abbas (RA) he knows nothing about leadership
Post by: Optimus Prime on December 03, 2014, 01:48:17 PM
Tareekh al-Madinah:
http://library.islamweb.net/hadith/display_hbook.php?bk_no=159&hid=1481&pid=42082


قَالَ الْعَبَّاسُ (لعلي) : لَمْ أَرْفَعْكَ فِي شَيْءٍ إِلا رَجَعْتَ إِلَيَّ مُسْتَأْخِرًا بِمَا أَكْرَهُ ، أَشَرْتُ عَلَيْكَ عِنْدَ وَفَاةِ رَسُولِ اللَّهِ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ أَنْ تَسْأَلَهُ فِيمَنْ هَذَا الأَمْرُ فَأَبَيْتَ ، وَأَشَرْتُ عَلَيْكَ بَعْدَ وَفَاتِهِ أَنْ تُعَاجِلَ الأَمْرَ فَأَبَيْتَ ، وَأَشَرْتُ عَلَيْكَ حِينَ سَمَّاكَ عُمَرُ فِي الشُّورَى أَنْ لا تَدْخُلَ مَعَهُمْ فَأَبَيْتَ


[al-`Abbas told `Ali: I never sent you to do anything except you come back when it is too late with bad news, I advised you during the sickness of Rasul-Allah (saw) that you should ask him who would be in authority but you refused, I also advised you after his death to attend to this matter with haste but you refused, I also advised you to not participate in the consultation when `Umar named you but you refused.]

Cheers Hani. This is authentic, right?
Title: Re: Hadith where Ali (RA) admits to Abbas (RA) he knows nothing about leadership
Post by: Hani on December 03, 2014, 01:50:28 PM
InshaAllah yes
Title: Re: Hadith where Ali (RA) admits to Abbas (RA) he knows nothing about leadership
Post by: Optimus Prime on December 03, 2014, 01:54:23 PM
InshaAllah yes

Jazak'Allah.