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Imam Ali (ra) Could Divorce the Mothers of Believers (ra)

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muslim720

Imam Ali (ra) Could Divorce the Mothers of Believers (ra)
« on: December 24, 2018, 04:07:29 AM »
Salaam alaykum wa rahmatullah,

A while back, reading a back-n-forth between a brother and a Shi'i sister, I was appalled to read the Shi'i sister claim that the Holy Prophet (saw) had given Imam Ali (ra) the right to divorce his wives (ra) after he (saw) passes away.  Giving their school the benefit of doubt, I was convinced that she misspoke and that such a thing does not exist in Shi'i books.

However, just when I thought their narrations could not get any more ridiculous, I stumbled on a profile on Facebook by the name of "Al-Rafidhi Sajjad".  Among his posts, almost all of which curse Abu Bakr (ra) and Umar (ra), he had the following hadith:

The Prophet(صلی الله و عليه وآله) gives Amiral-Muminin(عليه السلام) the authority to divorce his wives after him:

Allamah Al-Majlisi:

Through the same previous chain (i.e. Shareef Al-Radhi from Harun Ibn Musa from Ahmad Ibn Mohammad Ibn Ammar Al-Ijli) from Isa Al-Dharir from Al-Kadhim(عليه السلام) from his father who said: the Messenger of Allah(صلی الله و عليه وآله) said in his will to Ali(عليه السلام) while the people were present around him, "By Allah O Ali, most of them will go back to disbelief, fighting each other, and there is nothing between you and witnessing that other than that I pass away.“
He(صلی الله و عليه وآله) said in his will to Ali, “whoever of my wives and companions disobeys you, she/he has disobeyed me and whoever disobeys me, has verily disobeyed Allah and I am innocent of them, so make me innocent of them” then Ali(عليه السلام) said: “Yes, I will do it” so he(صلی الله و عليه وآله) said: “O Allah, be witness!, O Ali, the people will conspire against you and antagonize you and they will decide overnight to do it and whoever does that I am innocent of him, and this verse has been revealed about them: “a party of them decide by night upon doing otherwise than what you say; and Allah writes down what they decide by night” [4:81].

And through the same chain from Al-Kadhim(عليه السلام) from his father who said: the Messenger of Allah(صلی الله و عليه وآله) said in his will to Ali(عليه السلام), “O Ali, verily so and so(i.e. Aisha) and so and so(i.e. Hafsa) will conspire against you and antagonize you after me and so and so(i.e. Aisha) will revolt against you with armed soldiers and the other one will stay back and help her with collecting supporters, they both are the in the same position in that matter, so what would you do O Ali?” He said: “O Messenger of Allah(صلی الله و عليه وآله) if they did that I will recite the Book of Allah to them and that is a proof against them in my account with them, if they accepted that would good, otherwise I will talk with them by Sunnah that it is obligatory upon them to obey me and that my right is obligatory on them, if they accepted that would be good, otherwise I will take Allah as witness and you over them and I will fight them for their deviancy.” he(صلی الله و عليه وآله) said: “and slay the camel, even if it was in fire(i.e. even if it was extremely hard).” I said: “Yes” he(صلی الله و عليه وآله) said: “O Allah be witness.” Then he(صلی الله و عليه وآله) said: “O Ali, when they did what the Qur’an has witnessed about them, then separate them from me, for verily they both will be separated from me and their father are their associates with them in what they do.” He(عليه السلام) said: „then the Prophet(صلی الله و عليه وآله) said in his will,‘O Ali be patient upon the oppression of the oppressor, for the disbelief and apostasy and hypocrisy is approaching with the first one of them(i.e. Abu Bakr) and then with the second one(i.e. Umar) and he is more evil and oppressor than the first one, then the third one(i.e. Uthman), and then supporters will gather around you and you will fight with their help with those who break their allegiance(i.e. Aisha, Talha and Zubayr in the battle of the camel) and then with the oppressors(i.e. Mu’awiya in Siffin) and then with the apostates(i.e. the Khawarij of Nahrawan) and their misguided followers and pray against them in your prayers, they are the misguided parties and their followers.‘“ (Source: Bihaar Al-Anwaar, Vol. 22 Pg. 488)

Is it just me or are the Shia masses really gullible?  The highlighted portion clearly says that the Holy Prophet (saw) allegedly knew that Aisha (ra) and Hafsa (ra) would "verily" conspire against Imam Ali (ra).  If the Prophet (saw) had that information, why did he not divorce them himself?

In the past two months, I have been studying for LSATs; have made the niyyah to go to law school, insha'Allah.  The preparation for the test has made me extra critical and observant of language.  "Verily" is a strong word which reaches the level of certainty.  Hence, our Prophet (saw) was certain that two of his wives (ra) would seek to harm Imam Ali (ra) and yet he did not divorce them; he (saw) tasked Imam Ali (ra) with the responsibility.

Wake up, ya Shia! 
"Our coward ran from those in authority" - Iceman (admitting the truth regarding his 12th Imam)

MuslimAnswers

Re: Imam Ali (ra) Could Divorce the Mothers of Believers (ra)
« Reply #1 on: December 24, 2018, 05:24:16 AM »
Quote
In the past two months, I have been studying for LSATs; have made the niyyah to go to law school, insha'Allah.  The preparation for the test has made me extra critical and observant of language.  "Verily" is a strong word which reaches the level of certainty.  Hence, our Prophet (saw) was certain that two of his wives (ra) would seek to harm Imam Ali (ra) and yet he did not divorce them; he (saw) tasked Imam Ali (ra) with the responsibility.


This is crucial when considering the 12er religion: Not only the Deen but even the Language and meaning of words are coined by their "Imams" and no one else; this is why it is very difficult to hold a discussion, they can claim the "Imams" held on to a 'Sunni' meaning of a word at one instance and coined a 'Shia' meaning to words in another instance. With this it is always a case of speaking past one another, since terms can always take on new meanings, be literal or metaphorical, constricted or expanded, or whatever in any and every case.
« Last Edit: December 24, 2018, 05:25:32 AM by MuslimAnswers »

iceman

Re: Imam Ali (ra) Could Divorce the Mothers of Believers (ra)
« Reply #2 on: December 26, 2018, 01:20:38 PM »
Salaam alaykum wa rahmatullah,

A while back, reading a back-n-forth between a brother and a Shi'i sister, I was appalled to read the Shi'i sister claim that the Holy Prophet (saw) had given Imam Ali (ra) the right to divorce his wives (ra) after he (saw) passes away.  Giving their school the benefit of doubt, I was convinced that she misspoke and that such a thing does not exist in Shi'i books.

However, just when I thought their narrations could not get any more ridiculous, I stumbled on a profile on Facebook by the name of "Al-Rafidhi Sajjad".  Among his posts, almost all of which curse Abu Bakr (ra) and Umar (ra), he had the following hadith:

The Prophet(صلی الله و عليه وآله) gives Amiral-Muminin(عليه السلام) the authority to divorce his wives after him:

Allamah Al-Majlisi:

Through the same previous chain (i.e. Shareef Al-Radhi from Harun Ibn Musa from Ahmad Ibn Mohammad Ibn Ammar Al-Ijli) from Isa Al-Dharir from Al-Kadhim(عليه السلام) from his father who said: the Messenger of Allah(صلی الله و عليه وآله) said in his will to Ali(عليه السلام) while the people were present around him, "By Allah O Ali, most of them will go back to disbelief, fighting each other, and there is nothing between you and witnessing that other than that I pass away.“
He(صلی الله و عليه وآله) said in his will to Ali, “whoever of my wives and companions disobeys you, she/he has disobeyed me and whoever disobeys me, has verily disobeyed Allah and I am innocent of them, so make me innocent of them” then Ali(عليه السلام) said: “Yes, I will do it” so he(صلی الله و عليه وآله) said: “O Allah, be witness!, O Ali, the people will conspire against you and antagonize you and they will decide overnight to do it and whoever does that I am innocent of him, and this verse has been revealed about them: “a party of them decide by night upon doing otherwise than what you say; and Allah writes down what they decide by night” [4:81].

And through the same chain from Al-Kadhim(عليه السلام) from his father who said: the Messenger of Allah(صلی الله و عليه وآله) said in his will to Ali(عليه السلام), “O Ali, verily so and so(i.e. Aisha) and so and so(i.e. Hafsa) will conspire against you and antagonize you after me and so and so(i.e. Aisha) will revolt against you with armed soldiers and the other one will stay back and help her with collecting supporters, they both are the in the same position in that matter, so what would you do O Ali?” He said: “O Messenger of Allah(صلی الله و عليه وآله) if they did that I will recite the Book of Allah to them and that is a proof against them in my account with them, if they accepted that would good, otherwise I will talk with them by Sunnah that it is obligatory upon them to obey me and that my right is obligatory on them, if they accepted that would be good, otherwise I will take Allah as witness and you over them and I will fight them for their deviancy.” he(صلی الله و عليه وآله) said: “and slay the camel, even if it was in fire(i.e. even if it was extremely hard).” I said: “Yes” he(صلی الله و عليه وآله) said: “O Allah be witness.” Then he(صلی الله و عليه وآله) said: “O Ali, when they did what the Qur’an has witnessed about them, then separate them from me, for verily they both will be separated from me and their father are their associates with them in what they do.” He(عليه السلام) said: „then the Prophet(صلی الله و عليه وآله) said in his will,‘O Ali be patient upon the oppression of the oppressor, for the disbelief and apostasy and hypocrisy is approaching with the first one of them(i.e. Abu Bakr) and then with the second one(i.e. Umar) and he is more evil and oppressor than the first one, then the third one(i.e. Uthman), and then supporters will gather around you and you will fight with their help with those who break their allegiance(i.e. Aisha, Talha and Zubayr in the battle of the camel) and then with the oppressors(i.e. Mu’awiya in Siffin) and then with the apostates(i.e. the Khawarij of Nahrawan) and their misguided followers and pray against them in your prayers, they are the misguided parties and their followers.‘“ (Source: Bihaar Al-Anwaar, Vol. 22 Pg. 488)

Is it just me or are the Shia masses really gullible?  The highlighted portion clearly says that the Holy Prophet (saw) allegedly knew that Aisha (ra) and Hafsa (ra) would "verily" conspire against Imam Ali (ra).  If the Prophet (saw) had that information, why did he not divorce them himself?

In the past two months, I have been studying for LSATs; have made the niyyah to go to law school, insha'Allah.  The preparation for the test has made me extra critical and observant of language.  "Verily" is a strong word which reaches the level of certainty.  Hence, our Prophet (saw) was certain that two of his wives (ra) would seek to harm Imam Ali (ra) and yet he did not divorce them; he (saw) tasked Imam Ali (ra) with the responsibility.

Wake up, ya Shia!

"Is it just me or are the Shia masses really gullible?"

Believe me IT'S JUST YOU. ONLY YOU.

muslim720

Re: Imam Ali (ra) Could Divorce the Mothers of Believers (ra)
« Reply #3 on: December 26, 2018, 01:25:13 PM »
Believe me IT'S JUST YOU. ONLY YOU.

Thank you for proving me right!  Wonder how many Shi'i women were divorced by their late-husbands' cousins (who were also their sons-in-law)?!  One idiotic concept only to be believed and implemented by idiots.

Bihar ul Anwar?  I'd say Bihar ul $hit-war!
"Our coward ran from those in authority" - Iceman (admitting the truth regarding his 12th Imam)

iceman

Re: Imam Ali (ra) Could Divorce the Mothers of Believers (ra)
« Reply #4 on: December 26, 2018, 03:22:02 PM »
Thank you for proving me right!  Wonder how many Shi'i women were divorced by their late-husbands' cousins (who were also their sons-in-law)?!  One idiotic concept only to be believed and implemented by idiots.

Bihar ul Anwar?  I'd say Bihar ul $hit-war!

"Bihar ul Anwar?  I'd say Bihar ul $hit-war!"

You can say what ever you want to. I don't think you have a clue about how much what you call "$hit" you have in books be it yours or anyone else. That's why I'm saying don't get too carried away when it comes to books. Keep your feelings and emotions under control. 😊

"One idiotic concept only to be believed and implemented by idiots"

You're not here to refute what's in the books but to slander the Shias. That's your problem. How you react and the words you use tells that you're one emotionally and mentally messed up individual.

muslim720

Re: Imam Ali (ra) Could Divorce the Mothers of Believers (ra)
« Reply #5 on: December 26, 2018, 03:32:00 PM »
You can say what ever you want to.

I am about to give you my reasons.

Quote
I don't think you have a clue about how much what you call "$hit" you have in books be it yours or anyone else.

Teaching me that another man can divorce my wife (although I'm unmarried) after I die?  That sort of garbage cannot be outmatched.

Quote
That's why I'm saying don't get too carried away when it comes to books. Keep your feelings and emotions under control. 😊

According to Shias, and I am copy-pasting this from a Shia's Facebook, we ought to insult others.

The Messenger of Allah (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) said: “When you will find people of bid`ah (innovation) and doubt/suspicion after me, show your baraa’ (disassociation) from them and INCREASE YOUR INSULTS (sabihim) towards them, and oppose (them) and bring evidences against them so they may not become greedy in bringing fasaad (corruption) to Islam.  You must warn people against them so they do not learn their bid`ah (innovation). Allah will write for you hasanaat (good deeds) for this, and will raise you darajaat (levels) in the next life.’”

Source:
1. Al-Kulayni, Al-Kaafi, vol. 2, ch. 159, pg. 375, hadeeth # 4
Grading:
1. Al-Majlisi said this hadeeth is SaHeeH (Authentic)
à Mir’aat Al-`Uqool, vol. 11, pg. 77

Other Scholar's who have said this hadeeth is SaHeeH:

1. al-FaaDil al-Kaadhimi (d. 1065), Masaalik al-Afhaam 'ila Ayaat al-Ahkaam, vol. 2, pg. 397
2. Shaheed al-Thaani (d. 966), Masaalik al-Afhaam ila TanqeeH Sharaa'i` al-Islaam, vol. 14, pg. 434
3. al-Majlisi I (al-Majlisi's father), RawDah al-Muttaqeen, vol. 9, pg. 327
4. Muhaqqiq al-Sabzawaaree (d. 1090), Kifaayah al-Ahkaam, vol. 1, pg. 437
5. `Abd al-`Ala (d. 1414), Mahdhab al-Ahkaam, vol. 16, pg. 134
6. `Abd Allaah al-Jazaa'iree (d. 1173), al-TuHfah al-Suniyyah, pg. 83
7. Yoosuf al-Bahraani, al-Hadaa'iq al-NaaDirah, vol. 18, pg. 164
8. al-Hussayn bin Aal `Asfoor al-Bahraani, Sadaad al-`Ibaad, pg. 446
9. Muhammad Mujaahid al-Tabataba'i (d. 1242), al-Munaahil, pg. 259
10. Ahmad al-Naraaqi (d. 1245), Mustanad al-Shee`ah fee Ahkaam al-Sharee`ah, vol. 14, pg. 162
11. Murtada al-Ansaari (d. 1281), Kitaab al-Makaasib, vol. 1, pg. 353
12. al-Khoei, MisbaaH al-Fuqaahah, vol. 1, pg. 354
13. Jawad al-Tabrizi, Irshaad al-Taalib 'ila al-Ta`leeq `ala al-Makaasib, vol. 1, pg. 162
14. Jawad al-Tabrizi, Asad al-Hadood, pg. 235
15. Abu Talib al-Tabrizi, al-Ta`leeqah al-Istidilaaliyyah, pg. 430
16. al-Sayfa al-Mazandaraani, Daleel Tahreer al-Waseelah, vol. 2, pg. 174
17. al-RooHaani, Fiqh al-Saadiq, vol. 14, pg. 296
18. al-RooHaani, MisbaaH al-Fuqaahah, vol. 1, pg. 379
19. Muhammad Sa`eed al-Hakeem, MisbaaH al-Minhaaj, pg. 359
20. `Alee al-Namaazee al-Shahroodi, Mustadarak Safeenah al-Bihaar, vol. 1, pg. 303 & vol. 8, pg. 202
21. Haadi al-Najafi, Mawsoo`ah aHaadeeth Ahl al-Bayt, vol. 2, pg. 25
22. al-Turayhi, Majma` al-BaHrayn, vol. 3, pg. 343
23. Muhammad Taqi al-Isfahani, Mikyaal al-Makaarim, vol. 2, pg. 259

Quote
You're not here to refute what's in the books but to slander the Shias.

Once again, it is the Prophetic model, according to 23 Shi'i sources.  See above!

Quote
That's your problem. How you react and the words you use tells that you're one emotionally and mentally messed up individual.

If emotionally reacting makes one a messed up individual then your entire theology is messed up (exactly my point) because it is rooted in emotional reactions (as shown in the hadith which encourages insulting those who oppose you).

It is quite off-putting to see Shias get offended when people carry out what they claim to be "Sunnah", whether it be cursing or their own kith and kin practicing Mutah.
« Last Edit: December 26, 2018, 03:33:20 PM by muslim720 »
"Our coward ran from those in authority" - Iceman (admitting the truth regarding his 12th Imam)

Mythbuster1

Re: Imam Ali (ra) Could Divorce the Mothers of Believers (ra)
« Reply #6 on: December 26, 2018, 04:33:27 PM »
"Is it just me or are the Shia masses really gullible?"

Believe me IT'S JUST YOU. ONLY YOU.

Believe me it’s not only him but the rest of the ummah of 1.5 billion.😜


Sheikh

Re: Imam Ali (ra) Could Divorce the Mothers of Believers (ra)
« Reply #7 on: December 26, 2018, 05:11:16 PM »
This thread gave me cancer 🙄

iceman

Re: Imam Ali (ra) Could Divorce the Mothers of Believers (ra)
« Reply #8 on: December 27, 2018, 03:38:42 PM »
Believe me it’s not only him but the rest of the ummah of 1.5 billion.😜

Well the majority have always disbelieved or gone astray. And this isn't from me but from Allah and history. 😊 So don't be too excited and proud over numbers. 😊

iceman

Re: Imam Ali (ra) Could Divorce the Mothers of Believers (ra)
« Reply #9 on: December 27, 2018, 03:42:09 PM »
This thread gave me cancer 🙄

Well you definitely need to see a doctor. 😊 This should be your priority from now on. 😊

muslim720

Re: Imam Ali (ra) Could Divorce the Mothers of Believers (ra)
« Reply #10 on: December 27, 2018, 07:02:16 PM »
I am starting to see a pattern.

Iceman loves to talk, however, when you confront him with one of their narrations, somehow he (conveniently) misses the entire post.  It is as though the entire post becomes invisible to him.
"Our coward ran from those in authority" - Iceman (admitting the truth regarding his 12th Imam)

Muhammad Tazin

Re: Imam Ali (ra) Could Divorce the Mothers of Believers (ra)
« Reply #11 on: December 28, 2018, 12:20:25 PM »
Devil Majlisi also brought this story in his book Tarikh Payambaran(Hayat al Qulub)-

علی بن
ابی طالب علیه السّلام و فرمود: این برادر من است و وصی و وارث من است و قیامکننده است به امور شما و به امور سایر امت بعد
از من، پس اطاعت نمایید او را در هر چه شما را به آن امر میکند و نافرمانی او مکنید که به نافرمانی او هلاك میشوید. پس به
حضرت امیر المؤمنین علیه السّلام فرمود: یا علی! این زنان را که به تو سفارش مینمایم ایشان را نگاهداري بکن و خرج ایشان را
بکش مادام که اطاعت تو نمایند، و امر کن ایشان را به امر خود و نهی کن ایشان را از آنچه تو را به شک میاندازد، و اگر نافرمانی
کنند ایشان را رها کن و طلاق بگو. حضرت امیر المؤمنین علیه السّلام عرض کرد: یا رسول اللّه! ایشان زنانند و کار ایشان است
سستی در امور و ضعف رأي. حضرت فرمود: تا آنکه صلاح ایشان را در مدارا دانی مدارا کن با ایشان، و هر که تو را نافرمانی کند
از ایشان پس او را طلاق بگو طلاقی که خدا و رسول از او شاد گردند. پس زنان آن حضرت همه ساکت شدند و حرفی نگفتند
مگر عایشه که او سخن گفت و گفت: یا رسول اللّه! هرگز ما چنین نبودیم که ما را امري بفرمایی و ما غیر آن را بجا آوریم.
حضرت فرمود: نه چنین است اي حمیرا، بلکه مخالفت من نمودي بدترین مخالفتها،

Then
he pointed to Imam Ali (a.s.) and said: “This is my brother, my successor and inheritor and the caretaker
of all religious and secular affairs of the community after me. Therefore you must obey what he
commands and in no case must you disobey him or you shall be destroyed.”
Then he said to His Eminence, Ali (a.s.): “I commend you to take care of these women as long as they
remain obedient to you and continue to pay for their maintenance. And continue to order them your
obedience. And keep them away from doubtful acts. If they disobey you, you may free them from my
wifehood and you may divorce them.” Amirul Momineen (a.s.) said: “O Messenger of Allah (S), they are
women, they are lazy and weak in opinion.”
The Holy Prophet (S) said: “Be kind to them as much as possible, and if in spite of that they do not obey,
you must divorce them in the manner approved by the Almighty Allah. All the wives fell silent on hearing
this discourse. But Ayesha said: “O Messenger of Allah (S), we can never go against your commands.”
The Prophet said: “It is not so. You have disobeyed me in the worst type of disobedience.

iceman

Re: Imam Ali (ra) Could Divorce the Mothers of Believers (ra)
« Reply #12 on: December 28, 2018, 07:44:49 PM »
I am starting to see a pattern.

Iceman loves to talk, however, when you confront him with one of their narrations, somehow he (conveniently) misses the entire post.  It is as though the entire post becomes invisible to him.

No it doesn't. Do you believe everything and I mean every single thing in sehih sitta? We also don't believe and it's not compulsory on us to believe everything and I mean every single thing in kutub e Arbaa. 😊 Set your standards by getting rid of your double standards 😊

muslim720

Re: Imam Ali (ra) Could Divorce the Mothers of Believers (ra)
« Reply #13 on: December 28, 2018, 08:00:57 PM »
No it doesn't. Do you believe everything and I mean every single thing in sehih sitta? We also don't believe and it's not compulsory on us to believe everything and I mean every single thing in kutub e Arbaa. 😊 Set your standards by getting rid of your double standards 😊

I forgot you are the same guy who vociferously argues that we need "infallible" Imams (ra) after the Prophet (saw) but when we showed you authentic reports from your Imams (ra) declaring kufr upon those who refuse to pay Zakah, you changed goal posts.  Then we showed your "kufr" for disobeying your own "infallibles" (ra) from your own books.  You evaded them too, lol.

There are these convenient stores attached to gas stations in the US called "On the Run"!  I am sure they are franchise owned; in case you need business ideas because the principle of being "On the Run" sits very well with you and your theology, lol.
« Last Edit: December 28, 2018, 08:02:36 PM by muslim720 »
"Our coward ran from those in authority" - Iceman (admitting the truth regarding his 12th Imam)

iceman

Re: Imam Ali (ra) Could Divorce the Mothers of Believers (ra)
« Reply #14 on: December 28, 2018, 09:22:46 PM »
I forgot you are the same guy who vociferously argues that we need "infallible" Imams (ra) after the Prophet (saw) but when we showed you authentic reports from your Imams (ra) declaring kufr upon those who refuse to pay Zakah, you changed goal posts.  Then we showed your "kufr" for disobeying your own "infallibles" (ra) from your own books.  You evaded them too, lol.

There are these convenient stores attached to gas stations in the US called "On the Run"!  I am sure they are franchise owned; in case you need business ideas because the principle of being "On the Run" sits very well with you and your theology, lol.

Your thinking based on assumptions, gossip and rumours doesn't surprise or amaze me. Neither does your stories and tales which you call experience.

iceman

Re: Imam Ali (ra) Could Divorce the Mothers of Believers (ra)
« Reply #15 on: December 28, 2018, 09:56:29 PM »
I forgot you are the same guy who vociferously argues that we need "infallible" Imams (ra) after the Prophet (saw) but when we showed you authentic reports from your Imams (ra) declaring kufr upon those who refuse to pay Zakah, you changed goal posts.  Then we showed your "kufr" for disobeying your own "infallibles" (ra) from your own books.  You evaded them too, lol.

There are these convenient stores attached to gas stations in the US called "On the Run"!  I am sure they are franchise owned; in case you need business ideas because the principle of being "On the Run" sits very well with you and your theology, lol.

Refuse to pay Zakah makes you a Kafir, throws you out of the fold of Islam, you couldn’t prove that from the Qur'an. You don't PAY Zakah infact you GIVE Zakah. Is it obligatory to hand over the Zakah money to the government? And of you don't does that make you WAJIB UL QATAL? You couldn’t prove this from the Qur'an either. Why did the Prophet s.a.w prohibit Mu'tah, what was the reason and purpose first it to be banned?  You couldn’t provide any explanation for this. Ring any bells?

muslim720

Re: Imam Ali (ra) Could Divorce the Mothers of Believers (ra)
« Reply #16 on: December 30, 2018, 06:14:22 AM »
Refuse to pay Zakah makes you a Kafir, throws you out of the fold of Islam, you couldn’t prove that from the Qur'an.

You take those who believed in tahreef to be your champion scholars so this is your "auqaat" when you ask for proof from the Qur'an.  However, I did better; I proved it via narrations attributed to Imam Jafar As-Sadiq (ra) [all from your own books] who is on par with the Qur'an (as per your assessment of Hadith Thaqalayn) that refusal to pay Zakah is kufr.  It is not my fault that you are choosing to disobey your own sixth "infallible" Imam (ra).

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Why did the Prophet s.a.w prohibit Mu'tah, what was the reason and purpose first it to be banned?  You couldn’t provide any explanation for this.

The Prophet (saw) prohibited Mu'tah for the same reason why your scholars won't give their daughters in Mu'tah.  In fact, he (saw) also banned Mu'tah because Mu'tah marriages saw a rise in the birth of many of your scholars and ancestors.
"Our coward ran from those in authority" - Iceman (admitting the truth regarding his 12th Imam)

iceman

Re: Imam Ali (ra) Could Divorce the Mothers of Believers (ra)
« Reply #17 on: December 31, 2018, 04:41:03 PM »
You take those who believed in tahreef to be your champion scholars so this is your "auqaat" when you ask for proof from the Qur'an.  However, I did better; I proved it via narrations attributed to Imam Jafar As-Sadiq (ra) [all from your own books] who is on par with the Qur'an (as per your assessment of Hadith Thaqalayn) that refusal to pay Zakah is kufr.  It is not my fault that you are choosing to disobey your own sixth "infallible" Imam (ra).

The Prophet (saw) prohibited Mu'tah for the same reason why your scholars won't give their daughters in Mu'tah.  In fact, he (saw) also banned Mu'tah because Mu'tah marriages saw a rise in the birth of many of your scholars and ancestors.

"You take those who believed in tahreef to be your champion scholars"

I don't know what you're talking about but I wish you'd stick to the subject and what is being discussed.

"However, I did better; I proved it via narrations attributed to Imam Jafar As-Sadiq (ra) [all from your own books]"

And I will answer to the above with your own reply,

"Exactly why we ask you to renounce your books!  What has been (falsely) attributed to your Imams (ra) contradict each other"

Go on, have a laugh over it.
« Last Edit: December 31, 2018, 04:43:05 PM by iceman »

muslim720

Re: Imam Ali (ra) Could Divorce the Mothers of Believers (ra)
« Reply #18 on: December 31, 2018, 04:45:38 PM »
I don't know what you're talking about but I wish you'd stick to the subject and what is being discussed.

You become very unaware and extremely quiet when your own scholars, books and beliefs come under scrutiny.  No need to play dumb.

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And I will answer to the above with your own reply,

In other words, you have an answer to go over your own sixth "infallible" Imam's (ra) head, lol.

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Go on, have a laugh over it.

I pity you more than I laugh at you.  If you only knew!
"Our coward ran from those in authority" - Iceman (admitting the truth regarding his 12th Imam)

iceman

Re: Imam Ali (ra) Could Divorce the Mothers of Believers (ra)
« Reply #19 on: January 01, 2019, 07:42:11 PM »
You become very unaware and extremely quiet when your own scholars, books and beliefs come under scrutiny.  No need to play dumb.

In other words, you have an answer to go over your own sixth "infallible" Imam's (ra) head, lol.

I pity you more than I laugh at you.  If you only knew!

"You become very unaware and extremely quiet when your own scholars, books and beliefs come under scrutiny"

No I don't. This is where you are wrong. I don't accept anything and everything nor do I go as you, and that is to accept what suits you and try and justify that and undermine the other.

"No need to play dumb" I don't play dumb. I play honest and fair. You play to your advantage and desire. That's the difference.

"In other words, you have an answer to go over your own sixth "infallible" Imam's (ra) head, lol"

Nope. I don't take things at face value or according to my desire and need, as you. For me Qur'an is the scale and measuring device. Can you prove and back it from the Qur'an? Or I compare things with the Qur'an and see if it goes with it or contradicts it.

"I pity you more than I laugh at you.  If you only knew!"

Believe me I KNOW. Your belief and faith depends and evolves around defending and protecting these handful of desired personalities.

It doesn't matter how hard you try you will never be able to wash away their actions and what they said and did.

 

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