TwelverShia.net Forum

Sunni Shia Discussion Forum => Hadith-Rijal => Topic started by: Hani on May 18, 2015, 08:55:41 PM

Title: Objection to Farid's 100 Shia narrators article
Post by: Hani on May 18, 2015, 08:55:41 PM
Salam,


Brother "al-Hasan" from our forum has contacted me and presented the following objection to Farid's article titled "`Abdul-Husayn's 100 Shia narrators (http://twelvershia.net/2015/05/17/abdul-husayns-100-shia-narrators-in-sunni-books/)"


Here is what he said:



Salam.


I read and skimmed through it although didn't watch the video yet. However one thing caught my attention and that is how Humran Ibn Al-A'yan(the brother of the infamous Zararah Ibn Al-A'yan) was not bolded under section 2 where it was assumed that the men not bolded were only given some form of Tawtheeq in only Al-Qummi and Al-Barqi. I say, this is not necessarily correct since Tusi both in his Rijal and Fihirst has included Humran as a companion of Al-Sadiq and Al-Baqir. Moreover, Kashi has narrated a narration in his Fihirst establishing his Tawthiq. For example, check out the summary of his Tarjamah by Khui: http://www.al-khoei.us/books/?id=8317


At the same time, although Najashi did not include him in his Rijal, he still mentioned his son Hamza as a companion of Al-Baqir and Al-Sadiq.


Nevertheless, I recall once that you made a thread about Zurahah(I think last year) and I wanted to bring up Humran when I had the chance since it was related but now that he's brought up, I'll directly ask you here. My concern is, while Humran like Zurah is a Rafidhi(Hence Imami and believes in Raj'a) in 'Aqeedah, both Sunnis and Shi'as give him Tawtheeq. That is, in Sunnism, although he does not narrate Ahadith, he is acknowledged as being one of the leading Saduq Qura' of Kufa as well as being one of the narrators in Khalaf's Qira'a. For example, one of the chains of Khalaf's Qira'a is as follows:


Khalaf from Hamzah from Humran from Muhammed Al-Baqir.


So in other words, Khalaf is acknowledging that Al-Baqir gave Ijazah to Humran and recited to him. I say how can you reconcile this with the fact that from a Sunni viewpoint; Al-Sadiq and Al-Baqir supposedly rebuked the Rafidha of their time such as Zurahah, but at the same time, they sat with another notorious Rafidihi(the brother of the man they cursed) and gave him Ijazah to narrate a Qira'a to the people? I say, does this not justify the Imami position where the Al-Sadiq's Ahadith where he curses Zurahah were indeed said out of Taqiyah, hence the other narrations where Al-Sadiq speaks well of Zurarah are established as authentic?
Let me know what you think.


Also, from Al-Kafi alone, I believe Humran did narrate a handful of Ahadith from Al-Sadiq and their nature would have been just as controversial as Zurarah's narrations from a Sunni viewpoint. In other words, he didn't only just take the Qira'a from him.
Title: Re: Objection to Farid's 100 Shia narrators article
Post by: Hani on May 18, 2015, 09:59:10 PM
Although I'm no expert on Shia Rijal, yet I have some very quick comments:

You said:
((I say, this is not necessarily correct since Tusi both in his Rijal and Fihirst has included Humran as a companion of Al-Sadiq and Al-Baqir.))

Himran ibn A`yan being listed as a companion is nowhere near Tawtheeq.

((Moreover, Kashi has narrated a narration in his Fihirst establishing his Tawthiq.))

And I assume this is the report that implies  Tawtheeq?

حدثني الحسين بن الحسن بن بندار القمي، قال: حدثنى سعد بن عبد الله القمي، قال: حدثنا عبد الله الحجال، عن عبد الله بن بكير، عن زرارة، قال: لوددت أن كل شئ في قلبي في قلب أصغر إنسان من شيعة آل محمد عليهم السلام. وبهذا الاسناد عن الحجال، عن صفوان، قال: كان يجلس حمران مع أصحابه فلا يزال معهم في الرواية عن آل محمد صلوات الله عليهم، فإن خلطوا في ذلك بغيره ردهم إليه، فإن صنعوا ذلك عدل ثلاث مرات قام عنهم وتركهم

The rest are all reports about him being from the dwellers of heaven and the greatest of Shia and the author comments in the end by saying:

وهذه الروايات وإن كانت أكثرها ضعيفة السند إلا أن في المعتبرة منها كفاية في إثبات جلالة حمران

This needs to be checked by a Rijali expert so we can learn its significance.

You said:

((Humran like Zurah is a Rafidhi(Hence Imami and believes in Raj'a) in 'Aqeedah, both Sunnis and Shi'as give him Tawtheeq.))

Himran ibn A`yan is very weak, `Uqayli mentions him in al-Du`afa', Nasa'i said Laysa bi Thiqah, Yahya bin Ma`in said Da`if Laysa bi Shay'.

The rest of the Rijali scholars describe him an extreme Shia, some say Rafidi. Whether he believes in Raj`ah or `Ismah is not stated and therefore not established, and not every extremist Shia believed in these two.

Regarding his beliefs, he narrates only a few narrations in the books of Ahlul-Sunnah, they don't seem to reflect his Tashayyu` except the narration of `Ali "Ask me before you lose me." He could have been an extremist Shia with some un-islamic innovations but not necessarily a Rafidi, narrations of Rafd could have been attributed to him by later Shias. It is also very possible that he would attend the gatherings of Ja`far in Madinah occasionally but never showed him his Rafd, many of the Koufans would trick Ja`far and he would disown them later if he found out. It is also possible that he became a Rafidi later on. I recall posting a report once from the books of Ahlul-Sunnah showing that Zurarah would attribute himself to Ja`far but the latter would disown him and Zurarah would claim Taqiyyah.

I also noticed in Himran's biographies that he took his recitation from `Ubayd ibn Nadilah:

From Tahdhib:
روى عن أبي الطفيل عامر بن واثلة الليثي ق وعبيد بن نضيلة وقرأ عليه القرآن وأبي جعفر محمد بن علي بن الحسين وأبي حرب بن أبي الأسود

And
قال هارون بن حاتم عن الكسائي قلت لحمزة على من قرأت قال قرأت على بن أبي ليلى وحمران بن أعين قلت فحمران على من قرأ قال على عبيد بن نضيلة الخزاعي وقرأ عبيد على علقمة وقرأ علقمة على عبد الله وقرأ عبد الله على النبي صلى الله عليه و سلم

From Tarikh al-Islam:
عبيد بن نضيلة أبو معاوية الخزاعي
 الكوفي المقريء، مقريء أهل الكوفة. سمع: المغيرة بن شعبة، ومسروقاً، وعبيد السلماني، وأرسل عن ابن مسعود، وقرأ القرآن على علقمة. قرأ عليه: حمران بن أعين، ويحيى بن وثاب

Also in the bio of Himran he seems to have taken his recitation from several people including those mentioned here:
حمران بن أعين الكوفي ق المقريء، قرأ القرآن على الكبار، أبي الأسود ظالم بن عمرو وقيل بل قرأ على ولده أبي حرب بن أبي الأسود، وعلى عبيد بن نضيلة، وأبي جعفر الباقر

So why would an Imami go and take his recitation from others? Isn't abu Ja`far's recitation enough?

You said:

((I say, does this not justify the Imami position where the Al-Sadiq's Ahadith where he curses Zurahah were indeed said out of Taqiyah, hence the other narrations where Al-Sadiq speaks well of Zurarah are established as authentic?))

This is nothing but a wild guess and one cannot base his beliefs on wild guesses, I mean at the end of the day if the guy was a liar, he can easily claim he took his recitation from abu Ja`far when in reality he took it from someone else. What we Ahlul-Sunnah are telling you is simple:

Neither Himran nor those who narrated from Himran are reliable, I'll leave the rest to your imagination to figure out how easily can he and a couple of accomplices attribute thousands of stories to those Imams.

Must you take your religion from such suspicious people!? Must you risk the chance of Zurarah actually being a cursed liar!? You found no other way!?