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Solution of Leaders of Jannah hadith

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Muhammad Tazin

Solution of Leaders of Jannah hadith
« on: September 23, 2015, 09:50:29 AM »
As Salamu Alaikum, how are you brothers?
I am getting complains of “contradictions” from shia laymen about two ahadith about leaders of jannah:- 
1.  أبو بكر وعمر سيدا كهول أهل الجنة
2.  الحسن والحسين سيدا شباب اهل الجنة

Shia complains;-
1. How can there be aged people in jannah? (about the hadith of Abu Bakr & Umar)
2. Everyone will be young, then , Hasan & Hussain are to be the leader of all people. 
(* some of them also argues about the Hasan wal Hussain hadith, that why mentioning “young people” specifically, when every dwellers of Jannah will be same aged)
they also says No. 1. Is labeled fabricated in Sunni books- http://rafed.net/research/%D8%A3%D8%B3%D8%A6%D9%84%D8%A9-%D9%88%D8%B1%D8%AF%D9%88%D8%AF/225-%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%AD%D8%AF%D9%8A%D8%AB/934-%D8%AD%D8%AF%D9%8A%D8%AB-%D8%A3%D8%A8%D9%88-%D8%A8%D9%83%D8%B1-%D9%88%D8%B9%D9%85%D8%B1-%D8%B3%D9%8A%D8%AF%D8%A7-%D9%83%D9%87%D9%88%D9%84-%D8%A3%D9%87%D9%84-%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%AC%D9%86%D8%A9
I have gone through several websites, in search of clear explanation, and found these opinions:-
1.   Hasan & husain r.a. will be the leader of the people except Prophets & Khulafa al-rashidin
2.   Hasan & Husain r.a. will be the leader of the people who were young at that time/their time
3.   Abu bakr & Umar r.a. will be the leader of the shaykh,elder people of their time
4.   About the hadith of  Abu bakr & Umar r.a.-  it means أراد بالكهل ههنا الحليم العاقل، أي أن الله يدخل أهل الجنة حلماء عقلاء
5.   The word  (الكهل  means 33/34- 50 yrs. So, Abu Bakr & Umar r.a. will be leaders of all dwellers of jannat (except prophets)
6.   As we see in Ale Imran: ayat 46, الكهل   means adult , not Old/Aged. Also, according to some sources, Isa(a.s.) was lifted up at the age of 32-34 .

My sources:
http://fatwa.islamweb.net/fatwa/index.php?page=showfatwa&Option=FatwaId&Id=122162
http://islamqa.info/ar/223106
http://www.alserdaab.org/articles.aspx?article_no=978
http://www.dd-sunnah.net/forum/showthread.php?t=110412
All these things are confusing me, can any of you help me to reach the conclusion?? 

*another thing- in this article, a slight typing mistake occurred I think,
http://twelvershia.net/2015/09/19/response-to-the-collection-and-preservation-of-the-quran/
the reference in “ However, the narration itself can be found in Shia source Al-Kafi as well. Al-Kulayni 7/1714” should be Al Kafi, 7/114, [ Bab 110, hadith no.3 in my copy ]

Aba AbdAllah

Re: Solution of Leaders of Jannah hadith
« Reply #1 on: September 23, 2015, 12:20:25 PM »
The most important point to ponder in this narration to understand the fact that even there will be leaders for elderly people is  by looking at the specification made by Prophet(saw) i.e Hassan(ra) and Hussain(ra) will be leader for “YOUTH” of paradise, but if you see the narrations which talk about leaders of women of paradise, you will not find such specification made, because it was a general to young and elder women. But in this case since there were two types of leaders(i.e for youth and old people) that is why Prophet(Saw) specifically notified that Hassan(ra) and Hussain(ra) will be leaders over YOUTH of paradise. Which proves that there even existed some other Leaders for Old people of paradise. Otherwise why would Prophet(saw) specifically say leaders of “YOUTH” when people were already aware that every one would enter paradise after they will be made young. And Prophet(Saw) would have used also specified in similar manner when he talked about the leaders of women of paradise, he would have said that Mariam and Fatima were leaders of YOUNG women of paradise, but nothing as such was said, which proves that, those ignorants who think that the narrations which talk about Leaders of young men and leaders of elderly men are contradictory are completely wrong because these narrations when understood properly shows us that it is not a contradiction but its a CONTRADISTINCTION.

Muhammad Tazin

Re: Solution of Leaders of Jannah hadith
« Reply #2 on: September 23, 2015, 05:57:43 PM »
Status of Fatima(r.a.) in Jannat- that is a very good point to ponder.

But, my complexity still remains about the total explanation of these ahadith, based on "Distinction" (what,why,how). As I habe mentioned in 2 points. And how I am confused with several types of answers-mentioned in those 6 points

Hani

Re: Solution of Leaders of Jannah hadith
« Reply #3 on: October 01, 2015, 04:33:02 AM »
Salam,

Check my book on the virtues of Abu Bakr, it can be found on twelvershia.net's home page. In it is a chapter on this narration with explanations at the end, take whichever you like.
عَلامَةُ أَهْلِ الْبِدَعِ الْوَقِيعَةُ فِي أَهْلِ الأَثَرِ. وَعَلامَةُ الْجَهْمِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُشَبِّهَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الْقَدَرِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُجَبِّرَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الزَّنَادِقَةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ الأَثَرِ حَشْوِيَّةً

Religion = simple & clear

Muhammad Tazin

Re: Solution of Leaders of Jannah hadith
« Reply #4 on: October 01, 2015, 06:38:48 AM »
Walaikum as Salam,
A great work indeed, and I got quite well explanation of this hadith .
But I got problem with this-
"NOTE: It is written that `Umar embraced Islam at 26 years of age, Abu Bakr embraced Islam before him and they were close in age."  in pg 65 of the book.
As I know that Rasulullah(s.a.w.) received his prophethood in  the age of 40, and also know Abu Bakr(r.a.) was close in age to Rasul(s.a.w.) ; Umar(r.a.) embraced Islam in the 4th/6th year of Nubuwaah .

So, If  Umar(r.a.) embraced Islam in age 26, and Abu Bakr(r.a.) was close to him in age, then there becomes a big gap between Rasul(s.a.w.) and Abu Bakr(r.a.)

Hani

Re: Solution of Leaders of Jannah hadith
« Reply #5 on: October 01, 2015, 07:24:16 AM »
Salam,

I don't remember how I calculated it, I may have a mistake in the calculations since that wasn't the main focus of the book.

You should ask an expert in Seerah. Check their biographies in popular books like al-Dhahabi's Siyar or Mizzi's Tahdheeb.

From what I can see,

Abu Bakr died in the year 13 AH at the age of 63.

`Umar died in the year 23 AH at the age of 63.

Meaning, 10 years difference.

So let's say Abu Bakr was 36 and `Umar was 26 then this would make them men in their prime, no harm in referring to them as Kuhoul.
« Last Edit: October 01, 2015, 07:29:56 AM by Hani »
عَلامَةُ أَهْلِ الْبِدَعِ الْوَقِيعَةُ فِي أَهْلِ الأَثَرِ. وَعَلامَةُ الْجَهْمِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُشَبِّهَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الْقَدَرِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُجَبِّرَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الزَّنَادِقَةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ الأَثَرِ حَشْوِيَّةً

Religion = simple & clear

 

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