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Sunni Shia Discussion Forum => Imamah-Ghaybah => Topic started by: Shia not Rafidi on June 14, 2020, 09:03:14 PM

Title: Ali refused to follow Shekhayn
Post by: Shia not Rafidi on June 14, 2020, 09:03:14 PM
so, it's when Umar RA was on his deathbed and he made a Shura council of 6 men to decide and elect the best amd deserving caliph.. when Abdu-r-rahman RA was given the final authority to decide between Ali and Usman, He asked em whether they'll fulfill the commands of Allah and his Messenger and the Shekhayn RA to which Ali RA replied in negative (he won't follow Shekhayn) and Usman replied in affirmative and thus was given allegiance and was elected as the next caliph..
explanation is required
Title: Re: Ali refused to follow Shekhayn
Post by: TAHIR on June 14, 2020, 09:35:46 PM
I wonder what your sources are :
However what we do read in sahih Al Bukhari is :
When umar (r.a) was stabbed ,he slected a six member council and left them to chose a leader among them selves .
They where Sad ibn abi waqs ,Talha, zubair ,uthman ,Ali and Abdur Rehman ibn awf.


Talha gave his vote to usman and relieved  himself.
Zubair to : Ali
Sad ibn abi waqas to Abdur rehaman ibn awf .

This left three of them competing,upon this Abdur Rehman ibn awf said ,so you allow me to chose between you ?
both of them replied in affermative
The following part is more interesting
  Abdur-Rahman took the hand of one of them (i.e. `Ali) and said, You are related to Allah's Apostle and one of the earliest Muslims as you know well. So I ask you by Allah to promise that if I select you as a ruler you will do justice, and if I select `Uthman as a ruler you will listen to him and obey him. Then he took the other (i.e. `Uthman) aside and said the same to him. When `Abdur-Rahman secured (their agreement to) this covenant, he said, O `Uthman! Raise your hand. So he (i.e. `Abdur-Rahman) gave him (i.e. `Uthman) the solemn pledge, and then `Ali gave him the pledge of allegiance and then all the (Medina) people gave him the pledge of allegianc   

Refrence sahih bukhari hadith no 3700
These is a portion of a long hadith

https://sunnah.com/bukhari/62
Read hadith 3700.in the link
Title: Re: Ali refused to follow Shekhayn
Post by: MuslimK on June 14, 2020, 11:02:15 PM
Ali followed and obeyed them when they were Caliph. From my understanding Ali just wanted to have his own policies in governance and didn't want to promise to follow all or exact policies of the previous rightly guided Caliphs.


The following part is more interesting
  Abdur-Rahman took the hand of one of them (i.e. `Ali) and said, You are related to Allah's Apostle and one of the earliest Muslims as you know well. So I ask you by Allah to promise that if I select you as a ruler you will do justice, and if I select `Uthman as a ruler you will listen to him and obey him. Then he took the other (i.e. `Uthman) aside and said the same to him. When `Abdur-Rahman secured (their agreement to) this covenant, he said, O `Uthman! Raise your hand. So he (i.e. `Abdur-Rahman) gave him (i.e. `Uthman) the solemn pledge, and then `Ali gave him the pledge of allegiance and then all the (Medina) people gave him the pledge of allegianc   

Refrence sahih bukhari hadith no 3700
These is a portion of a long hadith

https://sunnah.com/bukhari/62
Read hadith 3700.in the link


Interesting narration! Thanks for sharing.
Title: Re: Ali refused to follow Shekhayn
Post by: Noor-us-Sunnah on June 15, 2020, 01:09:16 AM
so, it's when Umar RA was on his deathbed and he made a Shura council of 6 men to decide and elect the best amd deserving caliph.. when Abdu-r-rahman RA was given the final authority to decide between Ali and Usman, He asked em whether they'll fulfill the commands of Allah and his Messenger and the Shekhayn RA to which Ali RA replied in negative (he won't follow Shekhayn) and Usman replied in affirmative and thus was given allegiance and was elected as the next caliph..
explanation is required

Refer to the answer to Argument 5 in this article:
https://youpuncturedtheark.wordpress.com/2014/09/11/5-sunni-answers-to-shiapens-article-on-fadak-and-inheritance-of-prophetsaw-chapter-five/
Title: Re: Ali refused to follow Shekhayn
Post by: Shia not Rafidi on June 15, 2020, 06:09:35 AM
Refer to the answer to Argument 5 in this article:
https://youpuncturedtheark.wordpress.com/2014/09/11/5-sunni-answers-to-shiapens-article-on-fadak-and-inheritance-of-prophetsaw-chapter-five/
Ma Sha Allah glad to see you back online ♥️
Title: Re: Ali refused to follow Shekhayn
Post by: Soccer on June 17, 2020, 07:35:42 PM
Circumstantial evidence is never definitive proof because other explanations can offered for it, but, if keeps adding up, count the counter, it becomes illogical to dismiss it all and excuses lame. But there is no need to rely on circumstantial evidence and rally it all up, when decisive clear sure proof exists in Quran and Sunnah shows how to perceive it.
Title: Re: Ali refused to follow Shekhayn
Post by: TAHIR on June 18, 2020, 05:47:07 PM
Circumstantial evidence is never definitive proof because other explanations can offered for it, but, if keeps adding up, count the counter, it becomes illogical to dismiss it all and excuses lame. But there is no need to rely on circumstantial evidence and rally it all up, when decisive clear sure proof exists in Quran and Sunnah shows how to perceive it.
I seriously admire your refutations ,keep them comming. These nwasib on the forum need to be taught a lesson they never forget..
Title: Re: Ali refused to follow Shekhayn
Post by: Soccer on June 18, 2020, 07:46:39 PM
I seriously admire your refutations ,keep them comming. These nwasib on the forum need to be taught a lesson they never forget..

Thank you brother.  I do not know if these people are Nawasib or not, but, I do know that Satan's pulling forces to denial and blindness to Ahlulbayt (a) can overwhelm people no matter how clear the proofs presented are.

We are in a dark night, in which, it's better to assume most people are orphans of the family of Mohammad (s) and aren't haters of them, even if the opposite is true, that most people deny them out of hate despite the truth being apparent to them.

When day light with clear miracles come about, then we can be more decisive, while, when yet that apparent and when God's word is not as high and manifest and truth is not as clear as is always the case when miracles are not in the open, it's better to forbear and forgive while concentrating on our own evils.