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Question for shias about their much awaited 12th Imam.

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fgss

Question for shias about their much awaited 12th Imam.
« on: July 17, 2016, 05:08:50 PM »
Assalam O Alaikum, Wa Rehmatullah, Wa Barakatuhu.

Question: What will happen after your 12th Imam? Or who will be the 13th Imam after him?

As it is written in your books that he will rule for some period then will die before his shias and earth will exist for a long time even after him. Below are all possible options for his period of rule from your books.

“His rule will be seven years and each year is equivalent to ten of your years. Therefore, the years of his rule will be equivalent to your seventy years.”
• Shaykh al-Mufid, Al-Irshad, p. 363; Shaykh at-Tusi, Ghaybah, p. 283; Rawdah al-Wa‘izin, vol. 2, p. 264; Sirat al-Mustaqim, vol. 2, p. 251; Al-Fusul al-Muhimmah, p. 302; Al-Ayqaz, p. 249; Bihar al-Anwar, vol. 52, p. 291; Nur ath-Thaqalayn, vol. 4, p. 101.
• ‘Iqd ad-Durar, pp. 224, 238; Ithbat al-Hudah, vol. 3, p. 624.
 
The Holy Messenger of Allah (S) said: “The Mahdi (‘atfs) is from us… and for seven years he will take charge of affairs.”
• Al-Fusul al-Muhimmah, p. 302; Ibn Batriq, ‘Umdah, p. 435; Dala’il al-Imamah, p. 258; Hanafi, Burhan, p. 99; Majma‘ az-Zawa’id, vol. 7, p. 314; Fara’id as-Simtayn, vol. 2, p. 330; ‘Iqd ad-Durar, pp. 20, 236; Shafi‘i, Bayan, p. 50; Hakim, Mustadrak, vol. 4, p. 557; Kanz al-‘Ummal, vol. 14, p. 264; Kashf al-Ghummah, vol. 3, p. 262; Yanabi‘ al-Mawaddah, p. 431; Ghayah al-Maram, p. 698; Bihar al-Anwar, vol. 51, p. 82.
 
The Prophet (S) also said: “He will rule for seven years over this ummah.”
• ‘Iqd ad-Durar, p. 20; Bihar al-Anwar, vol. 51, p. 82.

The Messenger of Allah (S) also said elsewhere: “The tenure of rule of al-Mahdi (S) will be seven years at the shortest or it will last for eight or nine years at the longest.”
•Ibn Tawus, Malahim, p. 140; Kashf al-Astar, vol. 4, p. 112; Majma‘ az-Zawa’id, vol. 7, p. 314.

It has also been reported: “Hadrat al-Mahdi (‘atfs) will rule in this world for nine years.
• Ibn Tawus, Tara’if, p. 177.

Jabir ibn ‘Abdullah al-Ansari asked Imam al-Baqir (‘a): “How many years will the Imam of the Time (‘atfs) live?” The Imam (‘a) replied: “From the day of the uprising till his demise will be nineteen years long.
• ‘Ayyashi, Tafsir ‘Ayyashi, vol. 2, p. 326; Nu‘mani, Ghaybah, p. 331; Ikhtisas, p. 257; Bihar al-Anwar, vol. 52, p. 298.

The Messenger of Allah (S) said: “Hadrat al-Mahdi (‘atfs) will rule for twenty years. He will take out the treasures from the ground; he will conquer the lands of polytheism.”
• Firdaws al-Akhbar, vol. 4, p. 221; Al-‘Ilal al-Mutanahiyyah, vol. 2, p. 858; Dala’il al-Imamah, vol. 233; Ithbat al-Hudah, vol. 3, p. 593; Bihar al-Anwar, vol. 51, p. 91. See Tabrani, Mu‘jam, vol. 8, p. 120; Asad al-Ghabah, vol. 4, p. 353; Fara’id as-Samtayn, vol. 2, p. 314; Majma‘ az-Zawa’id, vol. 7, p. 318; Lisan al-Mizan, vol. 4, p. 383.

He (S) also said: “The Mahdi (‘atfs) is from my progeny and he will rule for twenty years.”
•Kashf al-Ghummah, vol. 3, p. 271; Ibn Batriq, ‘Umdah, p. 439; Bihar al-Anwar, vol. 51, p. 1; Ibn Tawus, Malahim, p. 142; Firdaws al-Akhbar, vol. 4, p. 6; Dala’il al-Imamah, p. 233; ‘Aqd ad-Durar, p. 239; Yanabi‘ al-Mawaddah, p. 432.

It has also been reported: “The Imam (‘atfs) will rule for ten years.”
• Nur al-Absar, p. 170; Ash-Shi‘ah wa’r-Raj‘ah, vol. 1, p. 225. See Fadl al-Kufah, p. 25; A‘yan ash-Shi‘ah, vol. 2, p. 51; Yanabi‘ al-Mawaddah, p. 492.

In answer to the question on how many years the Mahdi (‘atfs) will rule, Hadrat ‘Ali (‘a) said: “He will rule over the people for thirty or forty years.”
•Ibn Hammad, Fitan, p. 104; Kanz al-‘Ummal, vol. 14, p. 591.

Imam as-Sadiq (‘a) said: “Hadrat al-Mahdi (‘atfs) will be from my progeny and his age will be equal to that of Ibrahim Khalil ar-Rahman (Prophet Abraham) (‘a). He will appear at the age of eighty years and rule for forty years.”
•Ithbat al-Hudah, vol. 3, p. 574

The same Imam (‘a) also said: “The tenure of Hadrat al-Qa’im’s (‘atfs) rule will be nineteen years and some months.”
•Nu‘mani, Ghaybah, p. 331; Bihar al-Anwar, vol. 52, p. 298; vol. 53, p. 3.

Imam al-Baqir (‘a) said: “Hadrat al-Qa’im (‘atfs) will rule for three hundred and nine years just as the Companions of the Cave stayed in the cave for the same period.”
•Shaykh at-Tusi, Ghaybah, p. 283; Bihar al-Anwar, vol. 52, p. 390; Ithbat al-Hudah, vol. 3, p. 584.
إِنَّ أَصْدَقَ الْحَدِيثِ كِتَابُ اللَّهِ وَأَحْسَنَ الْهَدْىِ هَدْىُ مُحَمَّدٍ وَشَرَّ الأُمُورِ مُحْدَثَاتُهَا وَكُلَّ مُحْدَثَةٍ بِدْعَةٌ وَكُلَّ بِدْعَةٍ ضَلاَلَةٌ وَكُلَّ ضَلاَلَةٍ فِي النَّارِ

May Allah guide us to the true teachings of Quran and Sunnah of His beloved Prophet (s.a.w.w). Ameen

Abu Muhammad

Re: Question for shias about their much awaited 12th Imam.
« Reply #1 on: July 18, 2016, 06:06:05 PM »
Wa'alakumussalam wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuhu...

Brother, there was already a discussion like this before. Click the link below.

http://forum.twelvershia.net/imamah-ghaybah/who-is-the-shia-imam-after-al-mahdi/msg10955/#msg10955

fgss

Re: Question for shias about their much awaited 12th Imam.
« Reply #2 on: July 19, 2016, 05:08:48 PM »
Wa'alakumussalam wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuhu...

Brother, there was already a discussion like this before. Click the link below.

http://forum.twelvershia.net/imamah-ghaybah/who-is-the-shia-imam-after-al-mahdi/msg10955/#msg10955

Yes brother. I saw the discussion but did not find a proper conclusive answer from shias there.

And this is very important question, which can disprove their entire concept of Imamat.

So I asked that again  :)
إِنَّ أَصْدَقَ الْحَدِيثِ كِتَابُ اللَّهِ وَأَحْسَنَ الْهَدْىِ هَدْىُ مُحَمَّدٍ وَشَرَّ الأُمُورِ مُحْدَثَاتُهَا وَكُلَّ مُحْدَثَةٍ بِدْعَةٌ وَكُلَّ بِدْعَةٍ ضَلاَلَةٌ وَكُلَّ ضَلاَلَةٍ فِي النَّارِ

May Allah guide us to the true teachings of Quran and Sunnah of His beloved Prophet (s.a.w.w). Ameen

Abu Muhammad

Re: Question for shias about their much awaited 12th Imam.
« Reply #3 on: July 19, 2016, 05:24:54 PM »
For the purpose of continuity, I think it's better to continue from the existing thread rather than opening up a new one. Otherwise, the points will scatter in so many different threads discussing exactly the same topic.

fgss

Re: Question for shias about their much awaited 12th Imam.
« Reply #4 on: July 19, 2016, 05:48:34 PM »
Right.

But I think, sometimes multiple threads addressing the same issue are also necessary. Its good for forum to have more topics. Although question is same but approach is different. It simplifies the task for shias, providing them all possible options from their own books.
إِنَّ أَصْدَقَ الْحَدِيثِ كِتَابُ اللَّهِ وَأَحْسَنَ الْهَدْىِ هَدْىُ مُحَمَّدٍ وَشَرَّ الأُمُورِ مُحْدَثَاتُهَا وَكُلَّ مُحْدَثَةٍ بِدْعَةٌ وَكُلَّ بِدْعَةٍ ضَلاَلَةٌ وَكُلَّ ضَلاَلَةٍ فِي النَّارِ

May Allah guide us to the true teachings of Quran and Sunnah of His beloved Prophet (s.a.w.w). Ameen

ShiaMan

Re: Question for shias about their much awaited 12th Imam.
« Reply #5 on: July 20, 2016, 12:33:31 AM »
Assalam O Alaikum, Wa Rehmatullah, Wa Barakatuhu.

Question: What will happen after your 12th Imam? Or who will be the 13th Imam after him?

Do AhleSunnah believe in the Mehdi or a Mehdi?

Abu Muhammad

Re: Question for shias about their much awaited 12th Imam.
« Reply #6 on: July 20, 2016, 01:01:02 AM »
Assalam O Alaikum, Wa Rehmatullah, Wa Barakatuhu.

Question: What will happen after your 12th Imam? Or who will be the 13th Imam after him?

Do AhleSunnah believe in the Mehdi or a Mehdi?

That doesn't really matter. Just answer brother Fahad's question.

fgss

Re: Question for shias about their much awaited 12th Imam.
« Reply #7 on: July 20, 2016, 06:51:38 AM »
Assalam O Alaikum, Wa Rehmatullah, Wa Barakatuhu.

Question: What will happen after your 12th Imam? Or who will be the 13th Imam after him?

Do AhleSunnah believe in the Mehdi or a Mehdi?

Brother, its a straight forward question. I am asking that because there are so many narrations about this in shia books. And all are saying he will rule and remain on earth for few years.

Just want to know what will happen after him. What is correct shia position on this based on authentic narrations from ahlebait.
إِنَّ أَصْدَقَ الْحَدِيثِ كِتَابُ اللَّهِ وَأَحْسَنَ الْهَدْىِ هَدْىُ مُحَمَّدٍ وَشَرَّ الأُمُورِ مُحْدَثَاتُهَا وَكُلَّ مُحْدَثَةٍ بِدْعَةٌ وَكُلَّ بِدْعَةٍ ضَلاَلَةٌ وَكُلَّ ضَلاَلَةٍ فِي النَّارِ

May Allah guide us to the true teachings of Quran and Sunnah of His beloved Prophet (s.a.w.w). Ameen

ShiaMan

Re: Question for shias about their much awaited 12th Imam.
« Reply #8 on: July 21, 2016, 12:46:30 AM »
Assalam O Alaikum, Wa Rehmatullah, Wa Barakatuhu.

Question: What will happen after your 12th Imam? Or who will be the 13th Imam after him?

Do AhleSunnah believe in the Mehdi or a Mehdi?

Brother, its a straight forward question. I am asking that because there are so many narrations about this in shia books. And all are saying he will rule and remain on earth for few years.

Just want to know what will happen after him. What is correct shia position on this based on authentic narrations from ahlebait.
After him, I believe will be Qiyamah but I am not sure. His rule is supposed to be 5, 7, 9 years or something.

Abu Muhammad

Re: Question for shias about their much awaited 12th Imam.
« Reply #9 on: July 21, 2016, 01:13:11 AM »

Brother, its a straight forward question. I am asking that because there are so many narrations about this in shia books. And all are saying he will rule and remain on earth for few years.

Just want to know what will happen after him. What is correct shia position on this based on authentic narrations from ahlebait.
After him, I believe will be Qiyamah but I am not sure. His rule is supposed to be 5, 7, 9 years or something.

I think you shouldn't derive any religious belief straight out of your head without having any proof from the Quran or sayings of your Imams. Kindly provide them to support your belief that the world will go into qiyamah after Al-Mahdi dies.

ShiaMan

Re: Question for shias about their much awaited 12th Imam.
« Reply #10 on: July 21, 2016, 01:42:02 AM »
I think you shouldn't derive any religious belief straight out of your head without having any proof from the Quran or sayings of your Imams. Kindly provide them to support your belief that the world will go into qiyamah after Al-Mahdi dies.
agreed brother. that is why I made sure I added "I am not sure". I will provide references inshallah.

What do you believe will happen after the Mahdi dies (whoever he may be)?

fgss

Re: Question for shias about their much awaited 12th Imam.
« Reply #11 on: July 21, 2016, 12:23:07 PM »
After death of Imam Mahdi a.s, Prophet Issa a.s will be caliph and he will rule for many years.
إِنَّ أَصْدَقَ الْحَدِيثِ كِتَابُ اللَّهِ وَأَحْسَنَ الْهَدْىِ هَدْىُ مُحَمَّدٍ وَشَرَّ الأُمُورِ مُحْدَثَاتُهَا وَكُلَّ مُحْدَثَةٍ بِدْعَةٌ وَكُلَّ بِدْعَةٍ ضَلاَلَةٌ وَكُلَّ ضَلاَلَةٍ فِي النَّارِ

May Allah guide us to the true teachings of Quran and Sunnah of His beloved Prophet (s.a.w.w). Ameen

ShiaMan

Re: Question for shias about their much awaited 12th Imam.
« Reply #12 on: July 21, 2016, 09:23:38 PM »
After death of Imam Mahdi a.s, Prophet Issa a.s will be caliph and he will rule for many years.
I know that we believe Prophet Issa and the Mahdi will return together but I had not heard about Prophet Issa ruling after the Mahdi.

fgss

Re: Question for shias about their much awaited 12th Imam.
« Reply #13 on: July 22, 2016, 09:58:59 AM »
After death of Imam Mahdi a.s, Prophet Issa a.s will be caliph and he will rule for many years.
I know that we believe Prophet Issa and the Mahdi will return together but I had not heard about Prophet Issa ruling after the Mahdi.

No. They will not come together. First Imam Mahdi a.s, then Dajjal and then Prophet Issa a.s will come. And he will kill the Dajjal, not Imam Mahdi.

It means you have very little knowledge about Imam of your time. According to Shia belief everyone has to recognise Imam of his time. This is the problem with majority of shias, that they know almost everything about previous Imams but know very less about their own current Imam. Previous Imams were imams of their time only. They have nothing to do with people who came after them as per shia belief of Imamat.

And shia narrations say he will die after ruling for few years, meaning Al-qaim or Hujjah will die before his followers. Then who will be the next Imam as earth cannot exist without an Imam. Isnt there a big contadiction between narrations from shia books and entire concept of Imamat, that there are only 12 Imams. Such narrations are actually supporting Ahlul Sunnah concept of Imam Mahdi.


So even narrations from shia books are against their own belief of Imamat and such narrations are mutawatur as you can see above in the main post, which majority of shias dont know. They dont know about their own Imam.
« Last Edit: July 22, 2016, 10:11:08 AM by Fahad Sani »
إِنَّ أَصْدَقَ الْحَدِيثِ كِتَابُ اللَّهِ وَأَحْسَنَ الْهَدْىِ هَدْىُ مُحَمَّدٍ وَشَرَّ الأُمُورِ مُحْدَثَاتُهَا وَكُلَّ مُحْدَثَةٍ بِدْعَةٌ وَكُلَّ بِدْعَةٍ ضَلاَلَةٌ وَكُلَّ ضَلاَلَةٍ فِي النَّارِ

May Allah guide us to the true teachings of Quran and Sunnah of His beloved Prophet (s.a.w.w). Ameen

ShiaMan

Re: Question for shias about their much awaited 12th Imam.
« Reply #14 on: July 27, 2016, 01:52:57 AM »

No. They will not come together. First Imam Mahdi a.s, then Dajjal and then Prophet Issa a.s will come. And he will kill the Dajjal, not Imam Mahdi.

It means you have very little knowledge about Imam of your time. According to Shia belief everyone has to recognise Imam of his time. This is the problem with majority of shias, that they know almost everything about previous Imams but know very less about their own current Imam. Previous Imams were imams of their time only. They have nothing to do with people who came after them as per shia belief of Imamat.

And shia narrations say he will die after ruling for few years, meaning Al-qaim or Hujjah will die before his followers. Then who will be the next Imam as earth cannot exist without an Imam. Isnt there a big contadiction between narrations from shia books and entire concept of Imamat, that there are only 12 Imams. Such narrations are actually supporting Ahlul Sunnah concept of Imam Mahdi.


So even narrations from shia books are against their own belief of Imamat and such narrations are mutawatur as you can see above in the main post, which majority of shias dont know. They dont know about their own Imam.

Easy there tiger. I will be the first to admit that I know nothing.

We are talking about knowing the Imam of our time and not about what will happen after him. That is why I mentioned I will provide references.

Noor-us-Sunnah

Re: Question for shias about their much awaited 12th Imam.
« Reply #15 on: July 27, 2016, 05:43:50 AM »
We are talking about knowing the Imam of our time and not about what will happen after him. That is why I mentioned I will provide references.
People could only know him, if he introduces himself. If he cant introduce himself, how can we know him.?

ShiaMan

Re: Question for shias about their much awaited 12th Imam.
« Reply #16 on: July 30, 2016, 01:24:50 AM »
We are talking about knowing the Imam of our time and not about what will happen after him. That is why I mentioned I will provide references.
People could only know him, if he introduces himself. If he cant introduce himself, how can we know him.?
Come on now. Surely you know that "knowing" in this sense means understanding who my Imam is. It does meaning knowing him personally. For example, I know the President of USA; doesnt mean I know him.

Noor-us-Sunnah

Re: Question for shias about their much awaited 12th Imam.
« Reply #17 on: July 30, 2016, 02:41:05 AM »
We are talking about knowing the Imam of our time and not about what will happen after him. That is why I mentioned I will provide references.
People could only know him, if he introduces himself. If he cant introduce himself, how can we know him.?
Come on now. Surely you know that "knowing" in this sense means understanding who my Imam is. It does meaning knowing him personally. For example, I know the President of USA; doesnt mean I know him.
What do you mean by understanding? Please elaborate.

As for president of USA then You do know him, you see him, you hear him, you find him issuing you the orders about do's and don'ts. So you know him.

 

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