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Challenge to Sunnis: Ghayba of Ibn Mariam عليهما السلام

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Noor-us-Sunnah

Re: Challenge to Sunnis: Ghayba of Ibn Mariam عليهما السلام
« Reply #220 on: July 21, 2017, 02:22:10 AM »
Your argument about speed failed to take into account the great speed of the Angels who ascend up to Allah very fast without the need for Buraq. All of these are creations of Noor which can move through the Heavens at high velocity. It is the earthen flesh and blood body which cannot be moved so fast. Our light speed is 186 thousand miles per second. Can an exposed human body travel at such speed into the Heavens where there is no oxygen?
Your questions display your lack of Emaan on the power of Allah, its like someone asking how can human being not get hurt by being burned in fire? So, they would say, its not rational to believe, Ibrahim(as) was put in fire and that fire became cool on him. You see these are supernatural events, which cannot be understood by human mind. But we have to believe in it.

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Then you failed to address how sayyidina Eesaa ascended into Heaven in his physical body apparently without mounting the Buraaq. This means you at least believe it is not necessary for a human body to ascend into the Heavens with a vehicle or mount.
When it is proven that one person can go to heaven with his body, then there shouldn't be any hurdle for you to believe that it happened to someone else as well, even if the howness or details are not mentioned.

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The Prophet Sallallahu alaihi wasallam was given the Buraaq to mount upon as a way of honoring him. Otherwise he could have ascended into Heaven on the wings of an Angel. There are reports in the Tafaseer that sayyidina Idrees alaihis salaam ascended into Heaven on the back of the Angel. To summarize, my point is that your argument that Buraaq was sent for because the Prophet ascended in his body is pure speculation and a very weak argument.
A correction from my part, Ibn Katheer himself, clarified this issue. Even though Ibn Katheer used the argument that Buraaq carrying Prophet(saws) is an evidence that it was with his body:

Ibn Katheer (may Allah have mercy on him) said in his Tafseer (3/33):
وأيضاً فإنه حمل على البراق ، وهو دابة بيضاء براقة لها لمعان ، وإنما يكون هذا للبدن ، لا للروح لأنها لا تحتاج في حركتها إلى مركب تركب عليه ، والله أعلم
he(Muhammad SAWS) was carried on al-Buraaq, which was a shining white animal; this can only refer to the body, not the soul, because to move the soul there is no need for a mount to carry it. And Allah knows best.

But Ibn Katheer also believed that Buraaq didn't take Prophet(saws) to heaven. It was a staircase. That is for "Isra" the means of transport was Buraaq, but for "Mira'aj", it was a staircase. See Seerat-e-Nabvi, vol 1, page 382, by Dr. Mahdi Rizqullah Ahmad.


Noor-us-Sunnah

Re: Challenge to Sunnis: Ghayba of Ibn Mariam عليهما السلام
« Reply #221 on: July 21, 2017, 02:23:00 AM »
If you read carefully the narrations about the Mi'raaj and reflect upon them you will understand that it was an ascension of the soul and occurred not in this world but in the Aalam al-Mithaal. Take for instance the fact that the Prophet Sallallahu alaihi wasallam saw an old, decrepit woman decked with jewelry. She was the Dunya, her extreme old age signifying that she is about to die, he jewelry signifying her attempt to allure despite actually being repulsive, etc.

The Prophet Sallallahu alaihi wasallam was presented with a bowl of milk and a bowl of wine. He took the milk signifying his Ummah will be upon the way of the Fitra of Islam; had he taken the wine it would have meant his followers would go astray.
I believe that the strongest evidence, that Prophet(saws) went with body and soul on Isra and Mira'aj was the fact that, the disbelievers of Quraysh, found it impossible, and they understood the claim of Prophet(saws) very well and Prophet(saws) have explained them in the best way. And they understood it to mean that Prophet(saws) went physically, that is why they said it was impossible to travel Masjid al-Aqsa in one night, however if Prophet(saws) claimed that it was a vision, then wouldn't have compared and judged in it physical sense. Nor would have some people apostated.

(i). Mustadrak al-Hakim:
أَخْبَرَنِي مُكْرَمُ بْنُ أَحْمَدَ الْقَاضِي، ثنا إِبْرَاهِيمُ بْنُ الْهَيْثَمِ الْبَلَدِيُّ، ثنا مُحَمَّدُ بْنُ كَثِيرٍ الصَّنْعَانِيُّ، ثنا مَعْمَرُ بْنُ رَاشِدٍ، عَنِ الزُّهْرِيِّ، عَنْ عُرْوَةَ، عَنْ عَائِشَةَ رَضِيَ اللَّهُ عَنْهَا، قَالَتْ: " لَمَّا أُسْرِيَ بِالنَّبِيِّ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَآلِهِ وَسَلَّمَ إِلَى الْمَسْجِدِ الأَقْصَى أَصْبَحَ يَتَحَدَّثُ النَّاسُ بِذَلِكَ، فَارْتَدَّ نَاسٌ فَمَنْ كَانَ آمَنُوا بِهِ وَصَدَّقُوهُ، وَسَمِعُوا بِذَلِكَ إِلَى أَبِي بَكْرٍ رَضِيَ اللَّهُ عَنْهُ، فَقَالُوا: هَلْ لَكَ إِلَى صَاحِبِكَ يَزْعُمُ أَنَّهُ أُسْرِيَ بِهِ اللَّيْلَةَ إِلَى بَيْتِ الْمَقْدِسِ، قَالَ: أَوَ قَالَ ذَلِكَ؟ قَالُوا: نَعَمْ، قَالَ: لَئِنْ كَانَ قَالَ ذَلِكَ لَقَدْ صَدَقَ، قَالُوا: أَوَ تُصَدِّقُهُ أَنَّهُ ذَهَبَ اللَّيْلَةَ إِلَى بَيْتِ الْمَقْدِسِ وَجَاءَ قَبْلَ أَنْ يُصْبِحَ؟ قَالَ: نَعَمْ، إِنِّي لأَصُدِّقُهُ فِيمَا هُوَ أَبْعَدُ مِنْ ذَلِكَ أُصَدِّقُهُ بِخَبَرِ السَّمَاءِ فِي غُدْوَةٍ أَوْ رَوْحَةٍ، فَلِذَلِكَ سُمَيَّ أَبُو بَكْرٍ الصِّدِّيقَ
[`A’ishah narrated: When the Prophet (saw) was transported (during Isra’) to al-Masjid al-Aqsa, people started to talk about it and some of those who had previously believed him apostated and went to Abu Bakr saying: “Look at your companion, he now claims that he was transported last night to Bayt-ul-Maqdis(Jerusalem).” Abu Bakr said: “Did he say so?” They said: “Yes!” Abu Bakr replied: “If he had said it then he is truthful.” They said: “Do you believe that he went to Bayt-ul-Maqdis this night and returned before morning!?” Abu Bakr said: “Yes, I believe him in what is even further; I believe that he receives the news of the heavens in mornings and evenings.” That is why Abu Bakr is called al-Siddiq.]

You see, they understood the claim of Prophet(saws) in a physical sense, hence they disbelieved that it could occur in a night, but if it was a vision, they wouldn't have raised this argument.

Shaykh Haafiz al-Hakami said in Ma‘aarij al-Qubool (3/1067):
ولو كان الإسراء والمعراج بروحه في المنام لم تكن معجزة ، ولا كان لتكذيب قريش بها وقولهم : كنا نضرب أكباد الإبل إلى بيت المقدس ، شهرا ذهابا وشهرا إيابا ، ومحمد يزعم أنه أسرى به اللية وأصبح فينا إلى آخر تكذيبهم واستهزاءهم به صلى الله عليه وسلم لو كان ذلك رؤيا مناما لم يستبعدوه ولم يكن لردهم عليه معنى ؛ لأن الإنسان قد يرى في منامه ما هو أبعد من بيت المقدس ولا يكذبه أحد استبعاد لرؤياه ، وإنما قص عليهم رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم مسرى حقيقة يقظة لا مناما فكذبوه واستهزؤوا به استبعاد لذالك واستعظاما له مع نوع مكابرة لقلة علمهم بقدرة الله عز وجل وأن الله يفعل ما يريد ولهذا لما قالوا للصديق وأخبروه الخبر قال : إن كان قال ذلك لقد صدق . قالوا وتصدقه بذلك ؟ قال : نعم إني لأصدقه فيما هو أبعد من ذلك في خبر السماء يأتيه بكرة وعشيا أو كما قال
If the Isra’ and Mi‘raaj had to do with the soul in a dream, Quraysh would not have rejected it and they would not have said, It takes us a month by camel to reach Jerusalem and a month to come back, but Muhammad claims that he was taken there last night and was back here with us this morning…! And they ridiculed him (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him). If that had been a dream, they would not have found it so far-fetched and there would have been no meaning in their rejecting it, because a person may see in his dream things that are farther away than Jerusalem, and no one will disbelieve his dream or find it far-fetched. But the Messenger of Allah (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) told them about a night journey that was real and had happened when he was awake, not in a dream, so they rejected it and ridiculed him, as they found it far-fetched and outrageous, and also out of stubbornness, because they had little knowledge of the might and power of Allah, may He be glorified and exalted, and they did not realise that Allah does whatever He wills. Hence when they told Abu Bakr as-Siddeeq about it, he said: If he said it, then it is true. They said: Do you really believe him? He said: Yes, and I believe him in something even more extraordinary than that, that news from heaven comes to him in the morning or in the afternoon – or words that effect.

(ii). Ibn Katheer (may Allah have mercy on him) said in his Tafseer (3/33):
ثم اختلف الناس : هل كان الإسراء ببدنه عليه السلام وروحه ، أو بروحه فقط ؟ على قولين ، فالأكثرون من العلماء على أنه أسري ببدنه وروحه يقظة لا مناماً ، ولا ينكرون أن يكون رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم رأى قبل ذلك مناماً ، ثم رآه بعد يقظة ، لأنه كان عليه السلام لا يرى رؤيا إلا جاءت مثل فلق الصبح ، والدليل على هذا قوله تعالى : ( سُبْحَانَ الَّذِي أَسْرَى بِعَبْدِهِ لَيْلاً مِنَ الْمَسْجِدِ الْحَرَامِ إِلَى الْمَسْجِدِ الْأَقْصَى الَّذِي بَارَكْنَا حَوْلَهُ ) الاسراء/ 1، فالتسبيح إنما يكون عند الأمور العظام ، فلو كان مناماً لم يكن فيه كبير شيء ، ولم يكن مستعظماً ، ولما بادرت كفار قريش إلى تكذبيه ، ولما ارتدت جماعة ممن كان قد أسلم ، وأيضاً فإن العبد عبارة عن مجموع الروح والجسد ، وقال تعالى : ( أَسْرَى بِعَبْدِهِ لَيْلاً ) وقال تعالى : ( وَمَا جَعَلْنَا الرُّؤْيا الَّتِي أَرَيْنَاكَ إِلَّا فِتْنَةً لِلنَّاسِ ) الاسراء /60، قال ابن عباس : هي رؤيا عين أريها رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم ليلة أسري به ، والشجرة الملعونة هي شجرة الزقوم ، رواه البخاري [ 2885 ] ، وقال تعالى :
( مَا زَاغَ الْبَصَرُ وَمَا طَغَى ) النجم/17 ، والبصر من آلات الذات لا الروح .
وأيضاً فإنه حمل على البراق ، وهو دابة بيضاء براقة لها لمعان ، وإنما يكون هذا للبدن ، لا للروح لأنها لا تحتاج في حركتها إلى مركب تركب عليه ، والله أعلم
Then the people differed as to whether the Isra’ involved both body and soul, or only his soul. There are two views; the majority of scholars are of the view that he was taken on the night journey both body and soul, when he was awake, and not in a dream, although they do not reject the idea that the Messenger of Allah (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) may have seen a dream before that, then seen those things after that when he was awake, because he (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) never saw a dream but it came true like the breaking of dawn. The evidence for that is the verse in which Allah, may He be exalted, says (interpretation of the meaning):

“Glorified (and Exalted) be He (Allah) (above all that (evil) they associate with Him),Who took His slave (Muhammad (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him)) for a journey by night from Al-Masjid-al-Haram (at Makkah) to the farthest mosque (in Jerusalem), the neighbourhood whereof We have blessed” [al-Isra’ 17:1].

Tasbeeh [the phrase “Subhaan Allah (Glory be to Allah or Glorified be Allah)] is used in the case of matters of great significance. If it had been a dream, there would have been nothing great about it and it would not have been regarded as being of such great significance; the disbelievers of Quraysh would not have hastened to disbelieve him and a number of those who had previously become Muslim would not have apostatised. Moreover, the word “slave” refers to both soul and body together, and Allah, may He be exalted, said “Who took His slave (Muhammad (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him)) for a journey by night”, and He, may He be exalted, also said (interpretation of the meaning): “And We made not the vision which we showed you but a trial for mankind, and likewise the accursed tree” [al-Isra’ 17:60]. Ibn ‘Abbaas said: This was something that the Messenger of Allah (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) saw with his own eyes on the night in which he was taken on the night journey, and the accursed tree is the tree of az-zaqqoom. Narrated by al-Bukhaari (2885). Allah, may He be exalted, says (interpretation of the meaning): “The sight (of Prophet Muhammad (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him)) turned not aside (right or left), nor it transgressed beyond (the) limit (ordained for it)” [an-Najm 53:17]; sight is one of the physical faculties, not part of the soul.

Moreover, he was carried on al-Buraaq, which was a shining white animal; this can only refer to the body, not the soul, because to move the soul there is no need for a mount to carry it. And Allah knows best.  -End quote-

(iii). Also to add proof that it was physical journey of Prophet(saws), we find a report which states that while his journey to Jerusalam Prophet(saws) saw a caravan of Quraysh, He made a Salam to them, and they heard his voice. In a vision a person cannot make others hears him, it has to be physical. See, Seerat-e-Nabvi, vol 1, page 381, by Dr. Mahdi Rizqullah Ahmad.



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The Prophet Sallallahu alaihi wasallam saw people being punished in Hell despite the fact that from our perspective Judgment Day hasn't occurred yet. All of these and many other factors point to the reality of the Israa and Mi'raaj being a powerful vision that was in the Aalam-al-Mithaal.[/size][/font]
These events were displayed to Prophet(saws), people being punished in hell didn't happen in real but what he saw was a display of those events, while He was physically present in heaven, just as Masjid al-Aqsa was displayed to Prophet(saws) while he was awake in presence of disbelievers from Quraysh.

Let me quote the Scholarly explanation given to this issue from Islamqa website. We read:
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No one will enter Paradise or Hell until after this reckoning. Some people will have an easy reckoning, and some will have a difficult reckoning. Our Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) will be the first one to enter Paradise in the full and real sense in the Hereafter.

It was narrated from Anas ibn Maalik (may Allaah be pleased with him) that the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “I will come to the gate of Paradise on the Day of Resurrection and will ask for it to be opened. The keeper will say: ‘Who are you?’ I will say, ‘Muhammad.’ He will say: ‘I was commanded not to open it for anyone before you.’” Narrated by Muslim (193). 

Secondly:

With regard to the ahaadeeth in which the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said that he saw someone in Paradise or in Hell, these are of two types:

1 – Either they were dreams, as in the hadeeth of Abu Hurayrah (may Allaah be pleased with him) according to which the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said to Bilaal at the time of Fajr prayer: “O Bilaal, tell me of the best deed you have done in Islam, for I heard the sound of your sandals in front of me in Paradise.”

Al-Haafiz ibn Hajar said in Fath al-Baari (3/35):

Al-Karmaani said: The apparent meaning of the hadeeth is that the hearing mentioned happened in a dream, because no one can enter Paradise except after death. The idea that it happened in a dream is supported by that which is quoted in the first part of (the chapter on) the virtues of ‘Umar from the marfoo’ hadeeth of Jaabir: “I saw myself entering Paradise and I heard footsteps, and it was said: This is Bilaal. And I saw a palace in the courtyard of which there was a girl, and it was said: This is for ‘Umar. …” After this hadeeth is the marfoo’ hadeeth of Abu Hurayrah: “Whilst I was sleeping I saw myself in Paradise, and I saw a woman doing wudoo’ beside a palace, and it was said: This is for ‘Umar. …” So it is known that this happened in a dream. This affirmed the virtue of Bilaal, because the dreams of the Prophets are wahy (Revelation), hence the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) affirmed that for him. End quote.

2 – Or Allaah showed His Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) what would happen in the Hereafter, so that he saw it with his own eyes or in his heart. That includes things that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) saw on the night of the Mi’raaj of things that would happen in Paradise or in Hell. Al-Haafiz al-Nawawi (may Allaah have mercy on him) said in Sharh Muslim (6/207):

al-Qaadi ‘Iyaad said: The scholars said: It may be understood as meaning that he saw it with his own eyes, as Allaah showed it to him and lifted the barrier between him and it, as He showed him al-Masjid al-Aqsa when he described it.

They said: Or it may be understood as meaning that he saw it by way of knowledge and revelation, so he saw it and learned of it in details that he had not known before that.

Al-Qaadi said: The first interpretation is more likely and is closer to the wording of the hadeeth, because it contains things that point to seeing with the eyes, such as his reaching out to take the bunch of grapes, and his stepping back in fear lest the heat of Hell reach him. End quote.
Source:
https://islamqa.info/en/89813
« Last Edit: July 21, 2017, 02:26:36 AM by Noor-us-Sunnah »

Noor-us-Sunnah

Re: Challenge to Sunnis: Ghayba of Ibn Mariam عليهما السلام
« Reply #222 on: July 21, 2017, 02:45:33 AM »
Regrettably you approach the texts of Islam with rigid and dry literalism and without Hikmah and Firaasah, gifts given to the Believer whose heart is filled with Noor.

Are we to understand that Dajjal will literally come mounted on a massive white donkey the span between its ears being 40 cubits, and travel faster than a cloud driven by the wind?
In principle, the Islamic terminology in religious texts is interpreted according to the literal meaning unless proven otherwise by a contextual or any other evidence. No scholar held that the hadeeth refers to a metaphorical donkey and not an actual one. Therefore, this means that the Dajjaal will be riding a real donkey, as described in the hadeeth, which indicates that it will be distinguished from usual donkeys as is clear from the measurement of its ears, let alone the rest of its body. This is similar to the description of Al-Buraaq that the Prophet, sallallaahu ʻalayhi wa sallam, rode during the night journey of Al-Israa'. The span of its step was described in the hadeeth that reads, "It places its hoof where its range of vision ends." [Al-Bukhari and Muslim]

Indeed, nothing is to be classified as odd or impossible when it comes to the infinite power of Allaah. He says (what means):

- {...Indeed, Allaah is over all things competent.} [Quran 2:20]

- {...But Allaah is not to be caused failure by anything in the heavens or on the earth. Indeed, He is ever Knowing and Competent.} [Quran 35:44]

Taken from:
http://www.islamweb.net/emainpage/index.php?page=showfatwa&Option=FatwaId&Id=314212


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And are we to understand that Gog and Magog will literally throw spears into the sky and they will fall back to the Earth smeared in blood?
Yes, and it would a test from Allah, as mentioned in a hadeeth. Carrying out pillage and murder to their left and right, Yajuj & Majuj will come to mount of Khamr (a mountain in Jerusalem) and say, “We have killed the inhabitants of the Earth, let us now kill the inhabitants of Heaven.” Thus, they will shoot their arrows towards the sky. Allah will return the arrows covered with blood and these fools will think they have killed those in Heaven. It would be a test for them, after which Allah will send punishment on them. We read:

Abu Sa’id al-Khudri said: “I heard the Messenger of Allah صلى الله عليه وسلم say: “Ya’juj and Ma’juj will open the barrier and come out against the people as Allah [ta’ala] said: “from every slope, pouring down.” [Al-Anbiya’: 96] So they will wreak havoc on the earth, and the Muslims will take cover in their cities and fortresses, taking their herds with them. And they [i.e. Ya’juj and Ma’juj] will drink the waters of the earth until one of them will pass by a river, then they will all drink from it until they leave it dry, until one who comes after them will pass that river and say: “There was once water here.” Then, when there is no one from the people remaining except that he has gone to a fortress or a city, one of them will say: “We have finished with the inhabitants of the earth, now only the inhabitants of the heavens are left.” He said: “Then one of them will shake his spear and hurl it into the sky, and it will fall back down again soaked with blood, as a trial and test for them. So while they are like that, Allah will send a worm in their necks like an-naghf, which will eat its way out of their necks, so that they will all fall dead, and no sound will be heard from them. So the Muslims will say: “Is there any man who will risk his life for us to see what this enemy is doing?” He said: “So a man will stand up to do that, seeking Allah’s reward, feeling that he will surely be a dead man. So he will go down and find them all dead, lying on top of each other. So he will call out: “O assembly of Muslims! Receive the good tidings that Allah has sufficed you against your enemy!” So they will come out of their cities and fortresses, and they will let their herds loose. They will find nothing for them to graze upon except their flesh [i.e. of Ya’juj and Ma’juj], but they will be nourished from it just as well as they had ever been nourished from any vegetation.”  (Al-Haakim)
[Source: The Story of Gog & Magog (Yajuj & Majuj) In Islam Religion By Muham Taqra]
 [ Attachment ]  [ Attachment ]

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And are we to understand that sayyidina Eesaa alaihis salaam will literally go hunting to slaughter all the pigs in the world, and he will literally break every single cross and crucifix with his own hands?
When a leader commands people, and those under his leadership accomplish that command, that accomplishment gets attributed to him. For, example we say "Umar(ra) destroyed persian empire", However in actual it was the Muslim army which destroyed it. Similarly, people claim that "Yazeed killed Hussain(ra)", even though Yazeed wasn't present in Karbala. Likewise, in regards to Isa(as) killing the swine and breaking the cross, the meaning of this hadeeth is that, since the christians who eat swine and worship cross will become Muslim after the descend of Isa(as) from heaven, then on his command they will kill the pigs which they had for consumption and would break the cross on his command, so since the command is from Isa(as) which his followers would execute, it was attributed to him.


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It is such literalist thinking devoid of wisdom that makes people like you a laughing stock who believe in fables and fairy tales without understanding the reality. They think the final battles prophesied in the Hadith will literally be fought with swords and spears; having no understanding of apocalyptic language and symbolism.
Refer this response:
https://islamqa.info/en/162744
« Last Edit: July 21, 2017, 02:53:23 AM by Noor-us-Sunnah »

Noor-us-Sunnah

Re: Challenge to Sunnis: Ghayba of Ibn Mariam عليهما السلام
« Reply #223 on: July 21, 2017, 02:54:47 AM »

 عَنْ ثَوْبَانَ، قَالَ قَالَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم ‏"‏ إِنَّ اللَّهَ زَوَى لِيَ الأَرْضَ ‏"‏ ‏.‏ أَوْ قَالَ ‏"‏ إِنَّ رَبِّي زَوَى لِيَ الأَرْضَ فَرَأَيْتُ مَشَارِقَهَا وَمَغَارِبَهَا وَإِنَّ مُلْكَ أُمَّتِي سَيَبْلُغُ مَا زُوِيَ لِي مِنْهَا وَأُعْطِيتُ الْكَنْزَيْنِ الأَحْمَرَ وَالأَبْيَضَ


Narrated Thawbān (Radi Allāhu ‘Anhu): The Messenger of Allāh ﷺ as saying: “Allāh, the Exalted, folded for me the Earth”, or he said: “My Lord folded for me the Earth, so much so that I saw its easts and wests (i.e. the extremities). The kingdom of my community will reach as far as the Earth was folded for me. The two treasures, the red and the white (peoples) were bestowed on me.” (Sunan Abi Dawud)

*Now did this too occur literally? Or was it a Kashaf (vision) which the Prophet ﷺ was made to behold?

These events were displayed to Prophet(saws), while He was physically present in heaven, just as Masjid al-Aqsa was displayed to Prophet(saws) while he was awake in presence of disbelievers from Quraysh.

Refer post#221 for detailed response, as I covered this issue in that post.

As for the the issue of Isra wal Miraaj being literal or visionary, then "Dr. Mahdi Rizqullah Ahmad" in his book "Seerat-e-Nabvi, vol 1, pages 383-388", has discussed this issue in detail, let me post the pages from his book in Urdu for the benefit of readers.



In page 384, The author says that there was a difference among scholars, some scholars held the view that this took place in a dream/vision, but the correct view is the one, which was held by Majority of Salaf-saliheen, Fuqha, Muhadditeen and Mutakallimeen, that the journey occurred with Prophet's(saws) body and soul. And he backed his view by quoting Imam Ibn Hajar Asqalani. Then the author argues that the opposing view was reported from weak chains.

In page 385, the author continues with weakening the opposing view, and says there was Ijma of Sahaba on it.


[Seerat-e-Nabvi, vol 1, pages 383-388, by Dr. Mahdi Rizqullah Ahmad.]

« Last Edit: July 21, 2017, 03:00:35 AM by Noor-us-Sunnah »

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Re: Challenge to Sunnis: Ghayba of Ibn Mariam عليهما السلام
« Reply #224 on: July 21, 2017, 03:08:59 AM »
It says that there were BONES of Isa(as) in it, however the Islamic belief is that, Earth doesn't consume the body of Prophets, which again proves that this was a fraud attempt by some cunning people.

I have written about this Mas’ala at length on my blog,
 https://islamsalvationfromhell.blogspot.ca/2016/09/do-bodies-of-prophets-decay-after-death.html

disproving the ‘aqīda, based on a weak Hadīth, that the earth is forbidden from decomposing the bodies of the Prophets peace be upon them. For now, consider two important facts; 1. the earth decomposes the entire body of the son of Adam except for the coccyx (tailbone), from which he will be resurrected, 2. Prophet Joseph put in his Will that long after his death, when the Israelites emigrate to the Holy Land, they should exhume his bones and take them along with them and bury them with his forefathers, whose final resting place is in the Cave of Patriarchs in Hebron.

If it is true that the bodies of the Prophets remain as they are and unlike other human bodies are not decomposed after their death, then all one has to do is open the grave of a Prophet and display it before the whole world! That would be enough to establish the Hujja upon the disbelievers and make Islam triumphant.
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Re: Challenge to Sunnis: Ghayba of Ibn Mariam عليهما السلام
« Reply #225 on: July 21, 2017, 03:18:41 AM »
Your questions display your lack of Emaan on the power of Allah, its like someone asking how can human being not get hurt by being burned in fire? So, they would say, its not rational to believe, Ibrahim(as) was put in fire and that fire became cool on him. You see these are supernatural events, which cannot be understood by human mind. But we have to believe in it.

Allāh didn’t change the nature of the mortal human body by making it immune to the effect of fire. Prophets are human beings and they are harmed by what harms ordinary human beings. Rather, Allāh commanded the fire itself to become cool (Sūra 21: 69). There is no evidence whatsoever that Jesus of Nazareth ascended into Heaven in his earthen body, or that the body was transformed and somehow became immune to the fatal effects of outer space upon it, where there is no oxygen. To assert this is delving into speculation in theological matters of the unseen, which is indisputably forbidden.
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Re: Challenge to Sunnis: Ghayba of Ibn Mariam عليهما السلام
« Reply #226 on: July 21, 2017, 04:00:58 AM »
I believe that the strongest evidence, that Prophet(saws) went with body and soul on Isra and Mira'aj was the fact that, the disbelievers of Quraysh, found it impossible, and they understood the claim of Prophet(saws) very well and Prophet(saws) have explained them in the best way. And they understood it to mean that Prophet(saws) went physically, that is why they said it was impossible to travel Masjid al-Aqsa in one night, however if Prophet(saws) claimed that it was a vision, then wouldn't have compared and judged in it physical sense. Nor would have some people apostated.

You are assuming that the disbelievers understood what the Prophet ﷺ was claiming regarding his Isrā and Mi’rāj “very well”. You will first have to prove this supposition as being correct before proceeding. Pharaoh of Egypt was a disbeliever in the existence of Allāh and likewise found it irrational and inconceivable to believe in the Lord of Moses and Aaron, at least initially. Prophet Moses conveyed to him his Da’wa regarding the existence and immanance of Allāh Most High. But Pharaoh of Egypt still could not understand, and wrongly assumed that a person could meet with Moses’s Lord in Heaven by constructing a tall structure and ascending to the top of it  (Sūra 28: 38). Likewise, the polytheists of Makka ridiculed the Prophet’s claim about having visited Jerusalem and ascended into the Heavens in a single night because they did not understand the spiritual subtleties. In the Hadīth of al-Bukhāri, after narrating the lengthy incident of Mi’rāj, the concluding words of Angel Gabriel to the Prophet ﷺ are: فَاهْبِطْ بِاسْمِ اللَّهِ ‘Descend in the Name of Allāh’, and then it is narrated: وَاسْتَيْقَظَ وَهُوَ فِي مَسْجِدِ الْحَرَامِ ‘He awoke, and he was in the Sacred Mosque’. Notice here that the Prophet ﷺ is having his last meeting with Moses who was stationed in the Sixth Heaven. Now what needed to be acquired from Allāh for this Mi’rāj concerning the five obligatory prayers was done. Instead of continuing to descend back down, presumably on the Burāq, into the Heavens below and then land on Earth, Angel Gabriel simply told the Prophet ﷺ to take the Name of Allāh, and suddenly he awoke and found himself back in the Sacred Mosque. This is sufficient evidence that the Mi’rāj was a spiritual vision and not a physical/bodily journey.

If you insist that the Prophet ﷺ physically travelled to Bayt-al-Maqdis, and that some 124,000 Prophets arrived there in their actual bodies to pray behind him, undoubtedly such an amazing event would have been recorded in the annals of the people of Jerusalem to corroborate such a thing. It’s not everyday that you see 124,000 long deceased Prophets suddenly appear in your town. If such a thing happened in this Dunyā, and it was not an event in the ‘Ālam-al-Mithāl as you are saying, then there definitely should have been some historical report about it from the people of Jerusalem to cross reference. Furthermore, in the Hadīth of Mālik b. Sa’sa’, it is stated that before the Mi’rāj, when the Angels came to the Prophet ﷺ, he was in a state midway between sleep and wakefulness: بَيْنَا أَنَا عِنْدَ الْبَيْتِ بَيْنَ النَّائِمِ وَالْيَقْظَانِ

The Angels took the Prophet, opened his chest, washed his heart with Zamzam water, and then Burāq also came, etc. All of this was happening in the Sacred Mosque, obviously in the presence of the polytheists of Quraysh. So why didn’t they believe in the claim of Isrā and Mi’rāj when the apparent text of the Hadīth implies that it all happened in their presence, at the Sacred Mosque?
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Re: Challenge to Sunnis: Ghayba of Ibn Mariam عليهما السلام
« Reply #227 on: July 21, 2017, 04:23:26 AM »
Quote from: Noor-us-Sunnah
Tasbeeh [the phrase “Subhaan Allah (Glory be to Allah or Glorified be Allah)] is used in the case of matters of great significance. If it had been a dream, there would have been nothing great about it and it would not have been regarded as being of such great significance; the disbelievers of Quraysh would not have hastened to disbelieve him and a number of those who had previously become Muslim would not have apostatised. Moreover, the word “slave” refers to both soul and body together, and Allah, may He be exalted, said “Who took His slave (Muhammad (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him)) for a journey by night”, and He, may He be exalted, also said (interpretation of the meaning): “And We made not the vision which we showed you but a trial for mankind, and likewise the accursed tree” [al-Isra’ 17:60]. Ibn ‘Abbaas said: This was something that the Messenger of Allah (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) saw with his own eyes on the night in which he was taken on the night journey, and the accursed tree is the tree of az-zaqqoom. Narrated by al-Bukhaari (2885). Allah, may He be exalted, says (interpretation of the meaning): “The sight (of Prophet Muhammad (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him)) turned not aside (right or left), nor it transgressed beyond (the) limit (ordained for it)” [an-Najm 53:17]; sight is one of the physical faculties, not part of the soul.

Regarding this Mi’rāj, Allāh says:

مَا كَذَبَ الْفُؤَادُ مَا رَأَىٰ

The Heart did not lie about what it saw (Sūra 53: 11). So the Mi’rāj was a powerful Vision, or Kashaf, of the Prophet’s heart.

وَمَا جَعَلْنَا الرُّؤْيَا الَّتِي أَرَيْنَاكَ إِلَّا فِتْنَةً لِّلنَّاسِ وَالشَّجَرَةَ الْمَلْعُونَةَ فِي الْقُرْآنِ

And We did not make the Vision which you saw except a trial for the people, and (likewise) the cursed tree (mentioned) in the Qur’ān (Sūra 17: 60). Concerning this Ru’yā ‘Vision’, the eminent Imām al-Hasan al-Basri compared it to the Vision of Abraham where he saw himself sacrificing his son Isaac (Tafsīr Ibn Jarīr). So both Visions were not physical:



In the first Ayat of Sūrat Bani Isrā’īl, Allāh says He took His servant ﷺ by night. This is like how He says:

وَهُوَ الَّذِي يَتَوَفَّاكُم بِاللَّيْلِ

And He is the One Who takes you at night (Sūra 6: 60). Here the taking of the person at night refers to the taking of the soul during sleep. This is why Allāh made explicit mention of Layl ‘night’ in the Ayat of al-Isrā (Sūra 17: 1) to indicate it as being a vision during sleep.

As for your argument that the word ‘Abd can only apply to both body and soul together, there is no evidence of this from any credible lexicon. Are not the Angels, the Rūh and the Jinn considered as ‘Ibād Allāh?
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Re: Challenge to Sunnis: Ghayba of Ibn Mariam عليهما السلام
« Reply #228 on: July 21, 2017, 05:28:40 AM »
No scholar held that the hadeeth refers to a metaphorical donkey and not an actual one. Therefore, this means that the Dajjaal will be riding a real donkey, as described in the hadeeth, which indicates that it will be distinguished from usual donkeys as is clear from the measurement of its ears, let alone the rest of its body.

There is no literal donkey that has the span of 40 cubits between the width of its ears. If you had Firāsa and true understanding you would not make a mockery by believing in childlike fables but instead know the true reality of this exceedingly white and extremely large donkey that it is a means of modern transportation:





There are so many prophecies of the Prophet ﷺ which have been fulfilled, but people of you who are spiritually blind cannot see this because you are drowning in literalism like the Pharisaic Jews. People like you think that the saddles that move automatically without a beast, carrying passengers, must be literal and are not a prophecy of cars (even Albāni recognised this as a prophecy about modern vehicles), and the prophecy of a man’s whip speaking to him, sandals speaking, and thigh informing him of what is happening with his family in his absence is all literal and not a clear and awesome prediction regarding modern technology and electronic devices. What can be said about such people except:

Have they not travelled through the land, and have they hearts wherewith to understand and ears wherewith to hear? Verily, it is not the eyes that grow blind, but it is the hearts which are in the breasts that grow blind.  (Sūra 22: 46).
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Re: Challenge to Sunnis: Ghayba of Ibn Mariam عليهما السلام
« Reply #229 on: July 21, 2017, 05:44:22 AM »
Concerning the Dajjāl’s Donkey, I’ve written a detailed article on my blog:
http://islamsalvationfromhell.blogspot.ca/2017/01/dajjals-donkey_17.html

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Re: Challenge to Sunnis: Ghayba of Ibn Mariam عليهما السلام
« Reply #230 on: July 21, 2017, 06:13:29 AM »
Yes, and it would a test from Allah, as mentioned in a hadeeth. Carrying out pillage and murder to their left and right, Yajuj & Majuj will come to mount of Khamr (a mountain in Jerusalem) and say, “We have killed the inhabitants of the Earth, let us now kill the inhabitants of Heaven.” Thus, they will shoot their arrows towards the sky. Allah will return the arrows covered with blood and these fools will think they have killed those in Heaven. It would be a test for them, after which Allah will send punishment on them.

Try to understand apocalyptic and religious symbolism that is contained in prophecies. A Prophet describes events in the future in a language and using terminology the people of his time can comprehend. For example, how would you describe a modern vehicle such as a car to an ancient person? He doesn’t understand the term ‘automobile’. You would describe it as a carriage that moves without a beast of burden, precisely how the Prophet ﷺ described it:
سَيَكُونُ فِي آخِرِ أُمَّتِي رِجَالٌ يَرْكَبُونَ عَلَى السُّرُوجِ كَأَشْبَاهِ الرِّجَالِ يَنْزِلُونَ عَلَى أَبْوَابِ الْمَسْجِدِ
“In the last [part] of my nation there will be men who ride on means that resemble saddles.  They will alight at the doors of the mosques.” (Musnad Ahmad)

So what are these moving vehicles that are like saddles that people will park right at the doors of the mosques? Now if you think that there is literally going to come a giant donkey that is silvery white, having 40 cubits as the span between its ears, flying in the sky carrying the Dajjāl so he can travel as fast as a cloud driven by the wind, what can I say except Innā Lillāhi wa Innā Ilayhi Rāji’ūn? And in some books it is written that this donkey has windows with curtains on its sides, and that there are seats inside its belly which people will sit inside and travel. How much more explicit should the prophecy be before you can understand it? Have you no wisdom?

Now coming back to the spears and arrows of Yā’jūj wa Mā’jūj, how would you describe modern weapons such as anti-aircraft missiles that are fired into the sky to an ancient person? Will you use the term ‘anti-aircraft missle’, or will you describe something he can comprehend, such as a powerful spear that is shot upwards killing those that are in the sky? Now look what the Prophet ﷺ said: “The Muslims will use the bows, arrows and shields of Gog and Magog as firewood, for seven years” (Sunan Ibn Māja). This prophecy in fact originates from Ezekiel 39: 9 – 10 “And they that dwell in the cities of Israel shall go forth, and shall set on fire and burn the weapons, both the shields and the bucklers, the bows and the arrows, and the handstaves, and the spears, and they shall burn them with fire seven years: So that they shall take no wood out of the field, neither cut down any out of the forests; for they shall burn the weapons with fire: and they shall spoil those that spoiled them, and rob those that robbed them, saith the Lord God.”

Now understand the meaning of burning the weapons of Gog and Magog as firewood for seven years. Obviously, these are not ordinary bows, arrows and shields but modern technology being used for fuel. Regrettably, spiritually blind people like you think that these massive wars of the End Times such as Gog and Magog, will literally be fought with swords and spears and on horseback, not understanding that these terms were used as symbols, and nothing can be more obvious than that.
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Re: Challenge to Sunnis: Ghayba of Ibn Mariam عليهما السلام
« Reply #231 on: July 21, 2017, 09:47:22 AM »
Some of the visions or Kushūf of our illustrious Nabi ﷺ have been related as though they transpired in this material realm. While praying Salāt, he ﷺ beheld Janna which was brought so close to him that he thought about plucking a bunch of grapes from it. Likewise, the Hellfire was displayed to him and brought so close that he stepped back for fear of being burnt by its flames, and he saw a woman in it being tormented for her cruelty to a cat (this while he was offering the Salāt and his Sahāba praying behind him). The vision of seeing the Earth flattened and beholding the vastness of his ﷺ Umma from the East to the West has already preceded. It is in the Suhufi Mutahhara that Joseph saw eleven stars, the sun and the moon in a state of prostration to him (Sūra 12: 4) and a companion of Joseph saw himself pressing wine, and the other was carrying bread on his head which birds were eating from (Sūra 12: 36). Both of these are related with omission of the word ‘dream’ or ‘sleep’, though it is universally understood that they were visions and not something from this waking world.
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Re: Challenge to Sunnis: Ghayba of Ibn Mariam عليهما السلام
« Reply #232 on: July 22, 2017, 07:41:14 AM »
I have written about this Mas’ala at length on my blog,
 https://islamsalvationfromhell.blogspot.ca/2016/09/do-bodies-of-prophets-decay-after-death.html

disproving the ‘aqīda, based on a weak Hadīth, that the earth is forbidden from decomposing the bodies of the Prophets peace be upon them. For now, consider two important facts; 1. the earth decomposes the entire body of the son of Adam except for the coccyx (tailbone), from which he will be resurrected,
I provided you authentic hadeeth where Sahaba encountered a grave of Prophet, and his body wasn't consumed by earth. Just by saying weak, it won't become weak.

As for the hadeeth of tailbone you used, it is a general hadeeth, but in case of Prophets there are exceptions made in some cases against the general ones. Here is an example:

حَدَّثَنَا عُثْمَانُ بْنُ أَبِي شَيْبَةَ، وَإِسْحَاقُ بْنُ إِبْرَاهِيمَ، قَالَ إِسْحَاقُ أَخْبَرَنَا وَقَالَ، عُثْمَانُ حَدَّثَنَا جَرِيرٌ، عَنْ مَنْصُورٍ، عَنْ سَالِمِ بْنِ أَبِي الْجَعْدِ، عَنْ أَبِيهِ، عَنْ عَبْدِ اللَّهِ بْنِ مَسْعُودٍ، قَالَ قَالَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم ‏"‏ مَا مِنْكُمْ مِنْ أَحَدٍ إِلاَّ وَقَدْ وُكِّلَ بِهِ قَرِينُهُ مِنَ الْجِنِّ ‏"‏ ‏.‏ قَالُوا وَإِيَّاكَ يَا رَسُولَ اللَّهِ قَالَ ‏"‏ وَإِيَّاىَ إِلاَّ أَنَّ اللَّهَ أَعَانَنِي عَلَيْهِ فَأَسْلَمَ فَلاَ يَأْمُرُنِي إِلاَّ بِخَيْرٍ
Abd-Allaah ibn Mas’ood said: The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “There is no one among you but a companion from among the jinn has been assigned to him.” They said, “Even you, O Messenger of Allaah?’ He said, “Even me, but Allaah helped me with him and he became Muslim, so he only enjoins me to do that which is good.” [Sahih Muslim 2814 a]

Here you see, every human has a Jinn assigned to him who invites him to evil, but there is an exception of Prophet(saws). Hence your argument using a General hadeeth falls flat.


Quote
2. Prophet Joseph put in his Will that long after his death, when the Israelites emigrate to the Holy Land, they should exhume his bones and take them along with them and bury them with his forefathers, whose final resting place is in the Cave of Patriarchs in Hebron.
The learned scholars such as Shiekh al-Albani have tried to reconcile these reports, that is, the one which says that earth doesn't consume the body of Prophets, and the one you cited about Yusuf's(as) bones mentioned in hadeeth. The scholars said that, the word "bones" can be used to refer a body, and to back this claim they used the following hadeeth.

حَدَّثَنَا الْحَسَنُ بْنُ عَلِيٍّ، حَدَّثَنَا أَبُو عَاصِمٍ، عَنِ ابْنِ أَبِي رَوَّادٍ، عَنْ نَافِعٍ، عَنِ ابْنِ عُمَرَ، أَنَّ النَّبِيَّ صلى الله عليه وسلم لَمَّا بَدُنَ قَالَ لَهُ تَمِيمٌ الدَّارِيُّ أَلاَ أَتَّخِذُ لَكَ مِنْبَرًا يَا رَسُولَ اللَّهِ يَجْمَعُ - أَوْ يَحْمِلُ - عِظَامَكَ قَالَ ‏ "‏ بَلَى ‏"‏ ‏.‏ فَاتَّخَذَ لَهُ مِنْبَرًا مِرْقَاتَيْنِ
Ibn 'Umar said: When the Prophet (ﷺ) became fat, Tamim al-Dari said to him: Should I make for you pulpit, Messenger of Allah, that will bear the burden of your bones(body) ? He said: Yes. So he made a pulpit consisting of two steps. [Sunan Abi Dawud 1081; Grading Sahih]

Hence it is established that the word "bones" can be used to refer body as well, while the bones cannot be seen.

For detailed explanation of Scholars refer this link:
http://fatwa.islamweb.net/fatwa/index.php?page=showfatwa&Option=FatwaId&Id=333472

Next in your blog you used this hadeeth
Quote
Then al-Abbas (may Allah be pleased with him) stood up and addressed the people with the following words: “Verily, the Messenger of Allah (Sallallahu alaihi wasallam) has died. Indeed he was a mortal human being, and he shall change as mortal human beings change (after death). So people bury your Companion...”
Reference: Sunan al-Darimi; Chapter on the Death of the Prophet
Here is the chain of this report:
أخبرنا سليمان بن حرب ثنا حماد بن زيد عن أيوب عن عكرمة قال : توفي رسول الله صلى الله عليه و سلم يوم الإثنين

It is Mursal, Ikrimah Mawla ibn Abbas is a Taba'i, He was born a decade after the death of Prophet(saws), hence he cannot be a witness to the event he is reporting directly. Thus, it cannot be used as hujjah.

Secondly, the words are ambiguous, the context in which they were said, could mean the change from state of life to death, Umar(ra) wasn't claiming that Prophet's body wouldn't decompose, rather the context was purely regarding life and death, thus in relation to this, the words about change of state of life to death was mentioned.

Thirdly, I provided clear authentic ahadeeth of what occurred, not what would occur or is hidden, regarding body of a Prophet. Rather the example of Daniyal's(as) body is an explicit evidence which would be given precedence.

Quote
If it is true that the bodies of the Prophets remain as they are and unlike other human bodies are not decomposed after their death, then all one has to do is open the grave of a Prophet and display it before the whole world! That would be enough to establish the Hujja upon the disbelievers and make Islam triumphant.
These are invalid claims, what happened with the sign which Allah(swt) himself mentions in Quran. That is the example of preserving the body of Firawn.

So today We will save you in body that you may be to those who succeed you a sign. And indeed, many among the people, of Our signs, are heedless.(Quran 10:92).

Did all the people start believing in Islam? So keep these claims contrary to Quran and Sunnah to yourself. We know from Quran and Sunnah, that disbelievers witnessed the Miracles of Prophets, yet did bring Emaan on them.

And the fact is that some Christians  wanted to steal the body of Prophet(saws), but weren't able to accomplish their task. You can read about it here:
http://www.islamweb.net/emainpage/index.php?page=showfatwa&Option=FatwaId&Id=92625

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Re: Challenge to Sunnis: Ghayba of Ibn Mariam عليهما السلام
« Reply #233 on: July 22, 2017, 07:44:25 AM »
Your questions display your lack of Emaan on the power of Allah, its like someone asking how can human being not get hurt by being burned in fire? So, they would say, its not rational to believe, Ibrahim(as) was put in fire and that fire became cool on him. You see these are supernatural events, which cannot be understood by human mind. But we have to believe in it.

Allāh didn’t change the nature of the mortal human body by making it immune to the effect of fire. Prophets are human beings and they are harmed by what harms ordinary human beings. Rather, Allāh commanded the fire itself to become cool (Sūra 21: 69). There is no evidence whatsoever that Jesus of Nazareth ascended into Heaven in his earthen body, or that the body was transformed and somehow became immune to the fatal effects of outer space upon it, where there is no oxygen. To assert this is delving into speculation in theological matters of the unseen, which is indisputably forbidden.

Allah did change the nature of skin when it is exposed to fire, in the case of Ibrahim(as). And as for Isa(as) being raised to heaven, then the verse of Quran which talks about raising(Rafa) of Isa(as) is in itself an evidence from which Mufassireen deduced ascend of Isa(As), and what compliments this view is the unique prophesy of descend of Isa(as) from heaven during the end times. His Rafa and Nuzool from heaven goes hand in hand, with each other. It like a relation that Quran talks about raising of Isa(as), then Mutawattir head talks about descend of Isa(as). Quite simple to understand for people, whose hearts are not corrupt. And since Allah is the one who did the Rafa and will do the Nuzool of Isa(as), its stupidity to question howness, and displays lack of Emaan. It's similar for someone to question how could Fire become cool on Ibrahim or how could Isa(as) take birth without a father.

Noor-us-Sunnah

Re: Challenge to Sunnis: Ghayba of Ibn Mariam عليهما السلام
« Reply #234 on: July 22, 2017, 05:16:48 PM »
You are assuming that the disbelievers understood what the Prophet ﷺ was claiming regarding his Isrā and Mi’rāj “very well”. You will first have to prove this supposition as being correct before proceeding. Pharaoh of Egypt was a disbeliever in the existence of Allāh and likewise found it irrational and inconceivable to believe in the Lord of Moses and Aaron, at least initially. Prophet Moses conveyed to him his Da’wa regarding the existence and immanance of Allāh Most High. But Pharaoh of Egypt still could not understand, and wrongly assumed that a person could meet with Moses’s Lord in Heaven by constructing a tall structure and ascending to the top of it  (Sūra 28: 38).
You are intellectually bankrupt. My point was about Mushrikeen Makkah fully understanding what the claimant is claiming. Not that, they believed in what happened. Like how they understood what the claimant was claiming when Prophet(saws) said that there is "No God Except Allah, and Muhammad(saws) is His messenger", they understood what the claimant claimed, but didn't believe in it.

Likewise the example of Firawn and Moosa(as) you used then Firawn perfectly understood what the claimant claimed, Musa(as) claimed that Allah is in heaven, thus Firawn UNDERSTOOD THIS CLAIM, and hence want to prove it wrong. The point here is did he understood the claim of the claimant or not. In this case he did. The claim of Musa(as) wasn't that No one can reach above heaven where Allah is, so that Firawn tried to belie Musa(as), not at all.

Quote
Likewise, the polytheists of Makka ridiculed the Prophet’s claim about having visited Jerusalem and ascended into the Heavens in a single night because they did not understand the spiritual subtleties.
That's a very weak argument, even Kuffar see dreams, they can see things which would be incomprehensible in reality. Yet, none of them gave it a benefit of doubt that, since its a dream, and even we see dreams then it was just a false dream. But, on the contrary they compared Isra wa Miraj which Prophet(saws) was "supposedly" claiming in the form of dream to physical journey. And if that was the case then Prophet(saws) would have just refuted them back that why are you bringing the argument of time duration taken to travel Jerusalam, while I was sleeping here, and my body was present here. So you see, there is no better and rational explanation to this action of Mushrikeen of Makkah.

Moreover, why would some Muslims also leave Islam, if Prophet(saws) claimed it was dream? There is no rational explanation to this except to believe that, these former Muslims understood the claim of Prophet(saws), that he meant it to be physical journey.

Also, when these people reached Abu Bakr(ra) to inform him about this, he would have just rebuked them saying fools, it was a dream, stop comparing it with physical journey. And don't you see unusual things in dream, and if Muhammad(saws) saw it, then whats the problem.  But, even Abubakr(ra) didn't say so, rather just like Sunnis, he believed in it.


Quote
In the Hadīth of al-Bukhāri, after narrating the lengthy incident of Mi’rāj, the concluding words of Angel Gabriel to the Prophet ﷺ are: فَاهْبِطْ بِاسْمِ اللَّهِ ‘Descend in the Name of Allāh’, and then it is narrated: وَاسْتَيْقَظَ وَهُوَ فِي مَسْجِدِ الْحَرَامِ ‘He awoke, and he was in the Sacred Mosque’. Notice here that the Prophet ﷺ is having his last meeting with Moses who was stationed in the Sixth Heaven. Now what needed to be acquired from Allāh for this Mi’rāj concerning the five obligatory prayers was done. Instead of continuing to descend back down, presumably on the Burāq, into the Heavens below and then land on Earth, Angel Gabriel simply told the Prophet ﷺ to take the Name of Allāh, and suddenly he awoke and found himself back in the Sacred Mosque. This is sufficient evidence that the Mi’rāj was a spiritual vision and not a physical/bodily journey.

Your information about the Sunni belief is incorrect.

Ibn Katheer (may Allah have mercy on him) said in his Tafseer (3/33):
ثم اختلف الناس : هل كان الإسراء ببدنه عليه السلام وروحه ، أو بروحه فقط ؟ على قولين ، فالأكثرون من العلماء على أنه أسري ببدنه وروحه يقظة لا مناماً ، ولا ينكرون أن يكون رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم رأى قبل ذلك مناماً ، ثم رآه بعد يقظة ، لأنه كان عليه السلام لا يرى رؤيا إلا جاءت مثل فلق الصبح
Then the people differed as to whether the Isra’ involved both body and soul, or only his soul. There are two views; the majority of scholars are of the view that he was taken on the night journey both body and soul, when he was awake, and not in a dream, although they do not reject the idea that the Messenger of Allah (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) may have seen a dream before that, then seen those things after that when he was awake, because he (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) never saw a dream but it came true like the breaking of dawn.

As, for the return of Prophet(saws) from his physical Miraj, then we find in reports that"

Prophet said: "Jibril(as) brought me back. While returning they passed by a caravan of Quraysh, whose camel was lost. Prophet made a Salam to them, they said(to each other) this was the voice of Muhammad(saws). And before morning I reached to my people in Makkah. [Dalail Nabuwwah, vol 2, page 355-357, by Bayhaqi, Bayhaqi said, the chain is Sahih]

Also, note that people heard the voice of Muhammad(saws) while his return, which clearly establishes that it was not a vision, but a reality.


Quote
Furthermore, in the Hadīth of Mālik b. Sa’sa’, it is stated that before the Mi’rāj, when the Angels came to the Prophet ﷺ, he was in a state midway between sleep and wakefulness: بَيْنَا أَنَا عِنْدَ الْبَيْتِ بَيْنَ النَّائِمِ وَالْيَقْظَانِ
There is a mursal report ibn Seerah Ibn Hisham which gives the detail of this account:
 [ Attachment ]
I was told that al-Hasan said that the apostle said: `While I was sleeping in the Hijr Gabriel came and stirred me with his foot. I sat up but saw nothing and lay down again. He came a second time and stirred me with his foot. I sat up but saw nothing and lay down again. He came to me the third time and stirred me with his foot. I set up and he took hold of my arm and I stood beside him and he brought me out to the door of the mosque and there was a white animal, half mule, half donkey, with wings on its sides with which it propelled its feet, putting down each forefoot at the limit of its sight and he mounted me on it. Then he went out with me keeping close to me. [Seerah Ibn Hisham, vol 2, page 10]


Quote
The Angels took the Prophet, opened his chest, washed his heart with Zamzam water, and then Burāq also came, etc. All of this was happening in the Sacred Mosque, obviously in the presence of the polytheists of Quraysh. So why didn’t they believe in the claim of Isrā and Mi’rāj when the apparent text of the Hadīth implies that it all happened in their presence, at the Sacred Mosque?[/size][/font]
It is your assumption that Mushrikeen were present there or that they were watching Prophet(saws), there is no evidence for it. Moreover, this incident was invisible to the people around, just as Prophet(saws) became invisible to Mushrikeen, when Prophet(saws) came out of his house before he took up hijrah, while the Mushrikeen who came with a plan to assassinate Muhammad(saws) were waiting outside.
{"And We have put a barrier before them, and a barrier behind them, and We have covered them up, so that they cannot see." [Al-Qur'an 36:9]}.

Secondly, as per your claim, if Mushrikeen were noticing that Prophet(saws) was sleeping near Kabah, then they would have said that, we witnessed that he was sleeping infront of us. They wouldn't have brought the point of the time taken to travel Jerusalam.

Noor-us-Sunnah

Re: Challenge to Sunnis: Ghayba of Ibn Mariam عليهما السلام
« Reply #235 on: July 23, 2017, 12:06:08 AM »
Regarding this Mi’rāj, Allāh says:مَا كَذَبَ الْفُؤَادُ مَا رَأَىٰ

The Heart did not lie about what it saw (Sūra 53: 11). So the Mi’rāj was a powerful Vision, or Kashaf, of the Prophet’s heart.
This verse is regarding seeing Allah, while Prophet(saws) was physically present in the heaven.

It is narrated on the authority of Ibn Abbas that the words: " The heart belied not what he saw" (al-Qur'an, 53:11-12) and" Certainly he saw Him in another descent" (al-Qur'an, 53:13) imply that he saw him twice with his heart. [Sahih Muslim 176 b]

حَدَّثَنَا سَعِيدُ بْنُ يَحْيَى بْنِ سَعِيدٍ الأُمَوِيُّ، حَدَّثَنَا أَبِي، حَدَّثَنَا مُحَمَّدُ بْنُ عَمْرٍو، عَنْ أَبِي سَلَمَةَ، عَنِ ابْنِ عَبَّاسٍ، فِي قَوْلِ اللَّهِ ‏(‏ ولَقَدْ رَآهُ نَزْلَةً * أُخْرَى عِنْدَ سِدْرَةِ الْمُنْتَهَى ‏)‏ ‏(‏ فأوْحَى إِلَى عَبْدِهِ مَا أَوْحَى ‏)‏ ‏(‏فكَانَ قَابَ قَوْسَيْنِ أَوْ أَدْنَى ‏)‏ ‏.‏ قَالَ ابْنُ عَبَّاسٍ قَدْ رَآهُ النَّبِيُّ صلى الله عليه وسلم ‏.‏ قَالَ أَبُو عِيسَى هَذَا حَدِيثٌ حَسَنٌ
Narrated Abu Salamah: from Ibn 'Abbas regarding Allah's saying: And indeed he saw him at a second descent. Near Sidrat Al-Muntaha (53:13 & 14). So He revealed to His worshiper whatever he revealed (53:10). And was a distance of two bow lengths or less (53:9). Ibn 'Abbas said: "The Prophet (ﷺ) saw Him."[Jam'i Tirmidhi, Book 47, Hadith 3591 ; Hasan]

Shaykh al-Islam (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: “Chapter: with regard to seeing Allaah, what was proven in al-Saheeh from Ibn ‘Abbaas is that he said: ‘Muhammad saw his Lord with his heart twice, and ‘Aa’ishah denied that he had seen Him. Some people reconciled these two reports by saying that ‘Aa’ishah denied that he saw Him with his eyes and Ibn ‘Abbaas affirmed that he saw Him with his heart. Some versions of the report narrated from Ibn ‘Abbaas refers to seeing without specifying how, and others indicate that it was with the heart. -End-

Infact, the hadeeth of Ayesha(ra) who denied that Prophet(saws) saw Allah, was used as an evidence by scholars to conclude that even Ayesha(ra) believed that Miraj was physical, while awake not in dream. We read

Zurqani said: Infact, a careful study of Ayesha's(ra) words shows that she too was inclined to believe that the ascension was with body and soul. For, she denied that Muhammad(saws) saw his Lord with his eyes. If she had been for the opinion that the Prophet(saws) was in sleep, she wouldn't have had to deny the vision(what she would have said is that, "there is no point in discussing the question of Beatific vision , since, to begin with, he was then sleeping - Translator). [Commentary of Al-Mawahibul-ladunniyah of Qastalani, vol 6, page 4-5 ; Seerat-e-Nabvi, vol 1, page 269, By Ahmad Mahdi Rizqullah]


Quote
وَمَا جَعَلْنَا الرُّؤْيَا الَّتِي أَرَيْنَاكَ إِلَّا فِتْنَةً لِّلنَّاسِ وَالشَّجَرَةَ الْمَلْعُونَةَ فِي الْقُرْآنِ

And We did not make the Vision which you saw except a trial for the people, and (likewise) the cursed tree (mentioned) in the Qur’ān (Sūra 17: 60). Concerning this Ru’yā ‘Vision’, the eminent Imām al-Hasan al-Basri compared it to the Vision of Abraham where he saw himself sacrificing his son Isaac (Tafsīr Ibn Jarīr). So both Visions were not physical:

Before, showing you the incorrectness of your argument, let me present an authentic hadeeth about this verse:

Narrated Ibn `Abbas: Regarding: 'And We granted the vision (Ascension to the Heaven "Miraj") which We showed you (O Muhammad as an actual eye witness) but as a trial for mankind.' (17.60) It was an actual eyewitness which was shown to Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) during the night he was taken on a journey (through the heavens). And the cursed tree is the tree of Az-Zaqqum (a bitter pungent tree which grows at the bottom of Hell).[Sahih Bukhari, Book 65, Hadith 4716]

Regarding, your claim about the view of Hasan al-Basri, then the quote is actually from Ibn Ishaq not Hasan al-Basri. Let me quote the primary source which is Seerah of Ibn Hisham.

Ya`qub b. `Utba b. al-Mughira b. al-Akhnas told me that Mu`awiya b. Abu Sufyan when he was asked about the apostle's night journey said `It was a true vision from God.' What these two latter said does not contradict what al-Hasan said,that this verse was revealed regarding it, that Allah Himself said, `We made the vision which we showed thee only for a test to men;' nor does it contradict what Allah said in the story of Abraham when he said to his son, `O my son, verily I saw in a dream that I must sacrifice thee,' (Sura 37.10) and he acted accordingly. Thus, as I see it, revelation from Allah comes to the prophets waking or sleeping. [Seerah ibn Hisham]

The words which I highlighted in Red are the words of Ibn Ishaq, and the words in blue are the words of Hasan Basri.
And in the attachment in Urdu, the words which are highlighted are the words of Ibn Ishaq.
 [ Attachment ]

So if you read the whole context, you will realize that Ibn Ishaq is discussing the two quotes he had just mentioned from Ayesha(ra) and Muawya(ra)[Both of which are weak], you can notice this from the words (قولهما), then he says that, these two opinions doesn't contract what Hasan al-Basri said about the verse being revealed. THEN HE(IBN ISHAQ) presented another evidence which he felt was in line with this, that is the verse of Quran about Ibrahim's(as) dream.  And eventually Ibn Ishaq says that "as I see it, revelation from Allah comes to the prophets waking or sleeping." Therefore, the words on which you are trying to base your argument aren't the words of Hasan al-Basri in the first place.

As for the view of Hasan al-Basri, then we find that he believed it was in wakefulness. We read in Seerah ibn Hisham.

I was told that al-Hasan said that the apostle said: `While I was sleeping in the Hijr Gabriel came and stirred me with his foot. I sat up but saw nothing and lay down again. He came a second time and stirred me with his foot. I sat up but saw nothing and lay down again. He came to me the third time and stirred me with his foot. I set up and he took hold of my arm and I stood beside him and he brought me out to the door of the mosque and there was a white animal, half mule, half donkey, with wings on its sides with which it propelled its feet, putting down each forefoot at the limit of its sight and he mounted me on it. Then he went out with me keeping close to me. [Seerah Ibn Hisham, vol 2, page 10] [ Attachment ]


As for the two reports Ibn Ishaq is talking about, regarding Ayesha(ra) and Muawiya(ra), then both are weak and unreliable. (i). The one about Ayesha(ra), then it has Majhool narrator and its is Munkar. (ii). And the one about Muawiya(ra), then there is disconnection(Munqata) in the chain, Yaqub bin Utba didn't meet any Sahabi. See below:
 [ Attachment ]  [ Attachment ]


Quote
In the first Ayat of Sūrat Bani Isrā’īl, Allāh says He took His servant ﷺ by night. This is like how He says:

وَهُوَ الَّذِي يَتَوَفَّاكُم بِاللَّيْلِ

And He is the One Who takes you at night (Sūra 6: 60). Here the taking of the person at night refers to the taking of the soul during sleep. This is why Allāh made explicit mention of Layl ‘night’ in the Ayat of al-Isrā (Sūra 17: 1) to indicate it as being a vision during sleep.
The mention of Layl "night", is just to signify the time when it occurred. It didn't occur in morning or evening.


Quote
As for your argument that the word ‘Abd can only apply to both body and soul together, there is no evidence of this from any credible lexicon. Are not the Angels, the Rūh and the Jinn considered as ‘Ibād Allāh?
Ibn Abi’l-‘Izz al-Hanafi in Sharh at-Tahhaawiyyah (1/245) ; Ibn Katheer in his Tafseer (3/33).  Mohammad Saadiq Urjun in his book Muhammad RasoolAllah, vol 2, page 342-350. They all argued the same thing that the word "Abd" applies to both body and soul together.  Infact Urjun said that as per the understanding of Arabs and their language, the word "Abd" points towards the combination of body and soul.

As for saying Angels, Rul al-Ameen(Jibril) and the Jinn as Ibad Allah, then they have bodies too, but created from a different thing, Jinn were created from smokeless fire and the angels are created from Noor(light).

Noor-us-Sunnah

Re: Challenge to Sunnis: Ghayba of Ibn Mariam عليهما السلام
« Reply #236 on: July 26, 2017, 10:51:52 AM »
There is no literal donkey that has the span of 40 cubits between the width of its ears. If you had Firāsa and true understanding you would not make a mockery by believing in childlike fables but instead know the true reality of this exceedingly white and extremely large donkey that it is a means of modern transportation.
So, you want to counter the view of noble scholars from Ahlus-sunnah by quoting a Qadiyani Zindeeq. Ridiculous.

As for the claim that there is no donkey that has the span of 40 cubits between the width of its ears, then the world doesn't even know of an animal such as Buraaq, but it does exist. 

Prophet(saws) said: I was brought al-Buraq Who is an animal white and long, larger than a donkey but smaller than a mule, who would place his hoof a distance equal to the range of vision. I mounted it and came to the Temple (Bait Maqdis in Jerusalem), then tethered it to the ring used by the prophets. [Sahih Muslim 162 a]

Hudhaifah said: 'The Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) was brought a beast with a long back - stretching out like this - one stride of it, is as far as his vision. So, the two of them remained upon the back of Al-Buraq until they saw Paradise and the Fire, and all of what has been prepared for the Hereafter, then they returned back to where they began.'[Tirmidhi, Book 47, Hadith 3440 ; Sahih]

Note: This report also shows that, they returned from where they began, which means they returned to earth. In a dream there is no point to return from where they started, and that would also be meaningless.

Secondly, the world also, doesn't know about a beast which can talk, as al-Jassasa, the spy of Dajjal. But it is mentioned about him in authentic hadeeth, and we take it literally, but not sure if you Qadiyans claim that this was some robot of dajjal.

Tamim Dari(ra) said : We got Into the side-boats and entered this island and here a beast met us with profusely thick hair and because of the thickness of his hair his face could not be distinguished from his back. We said: Woe be to thee, who are you? It said: I am al- Jassasa. We said: What is al-Jassasa? And it said: You go to this very person in the monastery for he is eagerly waiting for you to know about you. So we came to you in hot haste fearing that that might be the Devil.....Prophet(saws) said: this account narrated by Tamim Dari was liked by me for it corroborates the account which I gave to you in regard to him (Dajjal) at Medina and Mecca [Sahih Muslim 2942 a]

We read in Kitaab Sharh us-Sunnah by Al-Barbahaaree (d. 329H) :

Know that the Sunnah is not a matter for analogies or reasoning with examples, and desires are not to be followed in it. Rather, it is just a case of affirming the narrations from Allaah's Messenger (sallallaahualaihi wasallam), without asking how, explaining or saying: 'Why?' or 'How? [Kitaab Sharh us-Sunnah by Al-Barbahaaree, page 70].
http://forum.twelvershia.net/imamah-ghaybah/challenge-to-sunnis-ghayba-of-ibn-mariam/?action=dlattach;attach=1504;image


And as for your criticism to the literal/safe approach towards ahadeeth about prophecies of Prophet(saws) which are to occur yet, and are a matter of unseen then you argue as if you have received some revelation/inspiration about the correct interpretation of it. The best and safe approach towards it, is to accept it without making any taweel, since its a matter of unseen.


I'd like you to explain this Hadith:

قَالَ النَّبِيُّ صلى الله عليه وسلم ‏"‏ وَإِنَّهُ فِي بَحْرِ الشَّامِ أَوْ بَحْرِ الْيَمَنِ لاَ بَلْ مِنْ قِبَلِ الْمَشْرِقِ مَا هُوَ
The Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم said: "He (Dajjal) is in the sea of Sham (Mediterranean) or the Sea of Yemen (Arabian Sea). No, rather he is in the direction of the East." (Abu Dawud sharif)

 فَإِنَّهُ أَعْجَبَنِي حَدِيثُ تَمِيمٍ أَنَّهُ وَافَقَ الَّذِي كُنْتُ أُحَدِّثُكُمْ عَنْهُ وَعَنِ الْمَدِينَةِ وَمَكَّةَ أَلاَ إِنَّهُ فِي بَحْرِ الشَّامِ أَوْ بَحْرِ الْيَمَنِ لاَ بَلْ مِنْ قِبَلِ الْمَشْرِقِ ما هُوَ مِنْ قِبَلِ الْمَشْرِقِ مَا هُوَ مِنْ قِبَلِ الْمَشْرِقِ مَا هُوَ ‏"‏ ‏.‏ وَأَوْمَأَ بِيَدِهِ إِلَى الْمَشْرِقِ
"this account narrated by Tamim Dari was liked by me for it corroborates the account which I gave to you in regard to him (Dajjal) at Medina and Mecca. Behold he (Dajjal) is in the Syrian sea (Mediterranean) or the Yemen sea (Arabian sea). Nay, on the contrary, he is in the east, he is in the east, he is in the east, and he pointed with his hand towards the east. " (Sahih Muslim).

Now look how the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم changed his Aqida several times regarding the Dajjal. First he said he agrees with the story of Tamim al Dari that Dajjal is on an island because it agrees with what he had been saying all along. Then he said Dajjal is in the Mediterranean. Then he changed and said Dajjal is in the Red Sea. Finally, his last view was that Dajjal is in the East.
I found that you raised this argument, in another thread, So I felt like responding to this doubt you raised. The response is that it was a method of speech, since all these views were said in the same sentence, there wasn't a time gap between them. Prophet(saws) used this method of speech to get the attention of people. As for Dajjal being on Island whom Tamim al Dari met, then that Island was most likely in east, as well.


Quote
There are so many prophecies of the Prophet ﷺ which have been fulfilled, but people of you who are spiritually blind cannot see this because you are drowning in literalism like the Pharisaic Jews.
You claim as if, none of the prophesy of Prophet(saws) came true in a literal sense. Let me give you couple of examples:

..."When will the Hour be?' He(SAWS) said: 'The one who is being asked about it does not know more than the one who is asking.' He asked: 'Then what are its signs?' he said...when you see barefoot, naked, destitute shepherds competing in constructing tall buildings.' [Sunan Ibn Majah, Book 1, Hadith 66 ; Sahih]

The Prophet (ﷺ) said, "The Hour will not be established till you fight with the Khudh and the Kirman from among the non-Arabs. They will be of red faces, flat noses and small eyes; their faces will look like flat shields, and their shoes will be of hair."[Sahih al-Bukhari 3590] This prophesy is about the Mongol invasion. Six hundred years or so after the death of the Prophet Muhammad(saws), the Mongols invaded the Muslim lands and massacred millions of people.

Secondly, even if for argument's sake we accept that the prophetic prophecies about the donkey of Dajjal or the weaponry to be used at the time of Yajuj and Majuj, etc are metaphorical, then it would considered that these were things that were variable and were bound to change, and hence they were mentioned by Prophet(saws) to the Sahaabah in terms of what they were familiar with. However, there are things which will remain constant and are not variable, such as the Angels. The belief of Muslims about the Angels is not bound to change, it was the same during the time of Sahaba till date and would be the same till Isa(As) descend from heaven keeping his hands on the wings of Angels. Therefore, the hadeeth of Prophet(saws) which mentions about Isa(as) descending from heaven , keeping his hands on the wings of Angels, is from the category of those prophecies which are to be understood in a literal sense. Giving self (mis)interpretations to these prophecies contrary to the literal meaning, is nothing but heresy.
« Last Edit: July 26, 2017, 10:55:05 AM by Noor-us-Sunnah »

 

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