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Current Version of Nahjul Balagha

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Farid

Current Version of Nahjul Balagha
« on: August 03, 2015, 05:51:35 PM »
Bismillah,

I was currently reading a book that has nothing to do with Shiasm. It is a book about the study of ancient manuscripts and how sometimes editors bring in texts into famous works and ascribing it to the original work. The author of this book described several books as victims of this, and one of the examples was Nahjul Balagha.

In other words, not only is there doubt regarding the attribution of Nahjul Balagha to Ali - may Allah be pleased with him - , but there is also doubt regarding the attribution of sections of Nahjul Balagha to Al-Shareef Al-Radhi!

Except a short article soon.

Al Dukhan

Re: Current Version of Nahjul Balagha
« Reply #1 on: August 03, 2015, 06:41:43 PM »
InshaAllah ! Will be waiting for

Optimus Prime

Re: Current Version of Nahjul Balagha
« Reply #2 on: August 03, 2015, 07:19:00 PM »
Bismillah,

I was currently reading a book that has nothing to do with Shiasm. It is a book about the study of ancient manuscripts and how sometimes editors bring in texts into famous works and ascribing it to the original work. The author of this book described several books as victims of this, and one of the examples was Nahjul Balagha.

In other words, not only is there doubt regarding the attribution of Nahjul Balagha to Ali - may Allah be pleased with him - , but there is also doubt regarding the attribution of sections of Nahjul Balagha to Al-Shareef Al-Radhi!

Except a short article soon.

LOL.

Not surprised it's been rigged. I think that's been the suspicioun for many years now.

This book is filled with kufar and shirk of the absolute extreme.

Farid

Re: Current Version of Nahjul Balagha
« Reply #3 on: August 04, 2015, 11:24:48 AM »
^ My current view of Nahjul Balagha is that it was (mostly) a compilation by Al-Shareef Al-Radhi. Most of it is falsely attributed to Ali, though I cannot accuse Al-Shareef of doing the fabrication. However, there are letters in his book that cannot be found in ANY early source, which may suggest that he is the culprit. Yet, we should be fair and not accuse him unless we have proof.

Shias always make my eyes roll when they argue that the proof of the correctness of these attributions is the eloquence of the reports that cannot have been made by any man. Pfffffffffffffffft.

Counter argument: Is the Prophet peace be upon him more eloquent than Ali?

If answer is "yes" or "they are equally as eloquent" then why haven't Shias compiled the narrations of the Prophet peace be upon him into one book?

I don't believe that the Shias have a reasonable answer to this. I personally believe that they don't have such a book due to their lack of narrations from the Prophet peace be upon him. As for the narrations that they do have from him, we never see them saying things like "this is so eloquent that it must be from him," for they know that this is not how to practice deen. The only reason that they have accepted this methodology with Nahjul Balagha is because they want to give the book weight since it is free of chains.

Do discuss your thoughts guys. This is a pending hypothesis.

zaid_ibn_ali

Re: Current Version of Nahjul Balagha
« Reply #4 on: August 04, 2015, 07:58:02 PM »
I thought the shia had listed all the alternative sources for each sermon?

Though its obvious that most alternative sources for each sermon are shia and not sunni.

Hani

Re: Current Version of Nahjul Balagha
« Reply #5 on: August 04, 2015, 08:39:39 PM »
Probably most alternative sources are fake, I remember some sources saying: "Scholar so-n-so read this sermon in a book called so-n-so"

Then when you search for that book you'll never find it so what they claimed cannot be verified.

I remember other sources being listed but when going back to them you won't even find that sermon, you'll find a line or sentence or something that barely resembles it.

What is funnier, is that the accusation against Nahj-ul-Balaghah is that it's a book without chains or sources, so in order to defend it the Rafidah made a list of resources for every sermon, yet if you refer to the resources they pointed out you'll also find that they're chainless reports with no sources.

Unfortunately, `Ali ibn abi Talib has some popular sayings and some sermons listed in many of the popular books, yet these sermons were not included in Nahj-ul-Balaghah!
عَلامَةُ أَهْلِ الْبِدَعِ الْوَقِيعَةُ فِي أَهْلِ الأَثَرِ. وَعَلامَةُ الْجَهْمِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُشَبِّهَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الْقَدَرِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُجَبِّرَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الزَّنَادِقَةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ الأَثَرِ حَشْوِيَّةً

Religion = simple & clear

Farid

Re: Current Version of Nahjul Balagha
« Reply #6 on: August 04, 2015, 09:43:57 PM »
@ zaid: This is not true. In many cases, the alternative sources are from authors that lived after Al Radhi. They may have quoted him.

scusemyenglish

Re: Current Version of Nahjul Balagha
« Reply #7 on: May 03, 2016, 12:48:49 AM »
Salam Aylikoum

I want to know please.

Who are cused (among sahaba) in this strange book?

And Ali did he said  good things about sahaba?

Barak Allah ou fikoum.
Abou Hourayra narrated that the messenger saws said:

"“There will come to the people years
of treachery (...) the Ruwaibidhah will decide matters.”
It was said

 'Who are the Ruwaibidhah?'

The Prophet replied:

 “Vile and
ignorant men who will speak in the affairs of the people.”

Hani

Re: Current Version of Nahjul Balagha
« Reply #8 on: May 03, 2016, 01:03:49 AM »
Shia altered abu Mikhnaf's book "Maqtal al-Husayn" and they've altered 'Musnad Zayd".
عَلامَةُ أَهْلِ الْبِدَعِ الْوَقِيعَةُ فِي أَهْلِ الأَثَرِ. وَعَلامَةُ الْجَهْمِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُشَبِّهَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الْقَدَرِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُجَبِّرَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الزَّنَادِقَةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ الأَثَرِ حَشْوِيَّةً

Religion = simple & clear

scusemyenglish

Re: Current Version of Nahjul Balagha
« Reply #9 on: May 03, 2016, 01:38:26 AM »
Shia altered abu Mikhnaf's book "Maqtal al-Husayn" and they've altered 'Musnad Zayd".

the original material of najh balaga are "Maqtal al-Husayn" and 'Musnad Zayd".?
Abou Hourayra narrated that the messenger saws said:

"“There will come to the people years
of treachery (...) the Ruwaibidhah will decide matters.”
It was said

 'Who are the Ruwaibidhah?'

The Prophet replied:

 “Vile and
ignorant men who will speak in the affairs of the people.”

Rationalist

Re: Current Version of Nahjul Balagha
« Reply #10 on: May 03, 2016, 02:34:54 AM »
Iblis was an angel in Najh Al Balagha

scusemyenglish

Re: Current Version of Nahjul Balagha
« Reply #11 on: May 03, 2016, 10:54:51 AM »
This book is not tottaly tampered? according to our scholars?
Abou Hourayra narrated that the messenger saws said:

"“There will come to the people years
of treachery (...) the Ruwaibidhah will decide matters.”
It was said

 'Who are the Ruwaibidhah?'

The Prophet replied:

 “Vile and
ignorant men who will speak in the affairs of the people.”

Ibn Yahya

Re: Current Version of Nahjul Balagha
« Reply #12 on: May 03, 2016, 11:48:45 PM »
This book is not tottaly tampered? according to our scholars?
its difficult to say. Nahj al-Balagha is large body of work that's presented as a primary source and we have little knowledge regarding its compilation. We can't even be sure if it was compiled at the time it claims to have been compiled. However its trustworthiness as a source is dubious

scusemyenglish

Re: Current Version of Nahjul Balagha
« Reply #13 on: May 04, 2016, 01:35:06 AM »
This book is not tottaly tampered? according to our scholars?
its difficult to say. Nahj al-Balagha is large body of work that's presented as a primary source and we have little knowledge regarding its compilation. We can't even be sure if it was compiled at the time it claims to have been compiled. However its trustworthiness as a source is dubious

Sahit

but what is "dangerous" for our creed in this book?  Ali cursed sahabas?

« Last Edit: May 04, 2016, 01:37:57 AM by scusemyenglish »
Abou Hourayra narrated that the messenger saws said:

"“There will come to the people years
of treachery (...) the Ruwaibidhah will decide matters.”
It was said

 'Who are the Ruwaibidhah?'

The Prophet replied:

 “Vile and
ignorant men who will speak in the affairs of the people.”

scusemyenglish

Re: Current Version of Nahjul Balagha
« Reply #14 on: May 04, 2016, 01:39:37 AM »
Iblis was an angel in Najh Al Balagha

it's true???   yet it's the view of christian?
« Last Edit: May 04, 2016, 01:44:36 AM by scusemyenglish »
Abou Hourayra narrated that the messenger saws said:

"“There will come to the people years
of treachery (...) the Ruwaibidhah will decide matters.”
It was said

 'Who are the Ruwaibidhah?'

The Prophet replied:

 “Vile and
ignorant men who will speak in the affairs of the people.”

scusemyenglish

Re: Current Version of Nahjul Balagha
« Reply #15 on: May 04, 2016, 12:17:56 PM »
I have seen one clip by fadak tv in french saying " Ali congratulate othman's killers" .

It's written in najh balaga?
Abou Hourayra narrated that the messenger saws said:

"“There will come to the people years
of treachery (...) the Ruwaibidhah will decide matters.”
It was said

 'Who are the Ruwaibidhah?'

The Prophet replied:

 “Vile and
ignorant men who will speak in the affairs of the people.”

 

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