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Deviants amongst the 'Alids - A chronic of madmen who exploited their lineage

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Rationalist

Re: Deviants amongst the 'Alids - A chronic of madmen who exploited their lineage
« Reply #20 on: September 06, 2016, 11:10:51 PM »
The authenticity of a hadith is not judged based on what people think sounds logical. How 12ers reply is irrelevent as this religion is based on quran and authentic hadith and the hadith in question is authentic according to our scholars.

Authentic according to scholars? So we don't have room to disagree with them and not make it binding on us? The examples mentioned in the Quran are at a time of Prophets and wahi (revelation), so miracles occurred at the time. However, to use that as analogy to explain the end times is not always valid to a point where it becomes a part of one's aqeeda. 
« Last Edit: September 06, 2016, 11:13:14 PM by Rationalist »

Sister

Re: Deviants amongst the 'Alids - A chronic of madmen who exploited their lineage
« Reply #21 on: September 07, 2016, 12:48:32 AM »
The authenticity of a hadith is not judged based on what people think sounds logical. How 12ers reply is irrelevent as this religion is based on quran and authentic hadith and the hadith in question is authentic according to our scholars.

Authentic according to scholars? So we don't have room to disagree with them and not make it binding on us? The examples mentioned in the Quran are at a time of Prophets and wahi (revelation), so miracles occurred at the time. However, to use that as analogy to explain the end times is not always valid to a point where it becomes a part of one's aqeeda.

We can disagree academically about a hadith if there is a problem with the chain or the like however dismissing a hadith simply because it doesn't sound logical to us is the problem here. Taking such an approach means that one would be opening the pandora box. If the muhadditheen say a hadith is authentic then we either accept it or challenge it (if we have enough knowledge in hadith science) using real means and not emotions. That's all i'm saying. Allah knows best.

Rationalist

Re: Deviants amongst the 'Alids - A chronic of madmen who exploited their lineage
« Reply #22 on: September 07, 2016, 01:11:57 AM »
The authenticity of a hadith is not judged based on what people think sounds logical. How 12ers reply is irrelevent as this religion is based on quran and authentic hadith and the hadith in question is authentic according to our scholars.

Authentic according to scholars? So we don't have room to disagree with them and not make it binding on us? The examples mentioned in the Quran are at a time of Prophets and wahi (revelation), so miracles occurred at the time. However, to use that as analogy to explain the end times is not always valid to a point where it becomes a part of one's aqeeda.

We can disagree academically about a hadith if there is a problem with the chain or the like however dismissing a hadith simply because it doesn't sound logical to us is the problem here. Taking such an approach means that one would be opening the pandora box. If the muhadditheen say a hadith is authentic then we either accept it or challenge it (if we have enough knowledge in hadith science) using real means and not emotions. That's all i'm saying. Allah knows best.

Okay, let use one example. Dajjal in one hadith is a man chained in a hidden island, and in another hadith he is supposedly ibn Sayyid. Also, on this strange island there is a spy. Who is this spy?  See the problem here is there isn't enough detail to make it part of my aqeeda. So, instead of shoving this down people's throats and telling them we must believe it, I rather say Allahu Alam.

Hani

Re: Deviants amongst the 'Alids - A chronic of madmen who exploited their lineage
« Reply #23 on: September 11, 2016, 03:38:55 AM »
Authenticity is not just based on soundness of chain even according to Muhaddithin.
http://www.ahlalhdeeth.com/vb/showthread.php?t=11177

Please brothers and sisters, let's not derail threads.

عَلامَةُ أَهْلِ الْبِدَعِ الْوَقِيعَةُ فِي أَهْلِ الأَثَرِ. وَعَلامَةُ الْجَهْمِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُشَبِّهَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الْقَدَرِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُجَبِّرَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الزَّنَادِقَةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ الأَثَرِ حَشْوِيَّةً

Religion = simple & clear

Rationalist

Re: Deviants amongst the 'Alids - A chronic of madmen who exploited their lineage
« Reply #24 on: September 11, 2016, 09:27:41 AM »
I wasn't going off topic. What I am trying to prove is that the end times hadith are not always fully detailed, and this is what happened with the Mahdi issue. There wasn't too much detail, and therefore, many Aalids began to believe they were the Mahdi. Therefore, in my opinion this view did not make them kaffirs, or took them away from being pious people.

Rationalist

Re: Deviants amongst the 'Alids - A chronic of madmen who exploited their lineage
« Reply #25 on: September 26, 2016, 10:55:29 PM »
It turns out Dhahabi praised Muhammad bin Ja'far.

here is what dhahabi says in siyar al-aalaam an-nubala about Mohammed bin jafar al-sadiq(a)
محمد بن جعفر الصادق
محمد بن جعفر الصادق بن محمد الباقر بن زين العابدين علي بن الحسين العلوي الحسيني المدني أبو جعفر سيد بني هاشم في زمانه يلقب بالديباج وهو أخو موسى الكاظم لم يكن في الفضل والجلالة بدون أخيه ....وكان سيدا مهيبا عاقلا فارسا شجاعا يصلح للإمامة
Mohammed bin jafar al-sadiq was the chief of banu hashim in his times and had the title al-dibaaj (because he was very beautiful) and only  his brother Musa al-Kazim(a) was more excellent  and majestic than him....he was a chief, dignified, intelligent, wise and courageous. and suitable to be an Imam.

 

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