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Hundred Questions for Shias

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Mythbuster1

Re: Hundred Questions for Shias
« Reply #20 on: January 10, 2019, 02:51:04 PM »
"You make yourself look bad we don’t have to do ANYTHING.......look at your answers it’s PURE entertainment especially adding DIVINE to a verse and how hard no matter how unconvincing it sounds you will keep at it"

One answer to all of the above, you suffer from a very serious illness. And that is ANTI SHIA SYNDROME 😊

"If there is no point then why are you posting in here? Why did you say you will answer them? Have you a split personality? Have you mental issues?
Don’t post if you THINK it’s not worth it, every time you post nonsense it makes you look worse than you already are"

Why ask when you are not going to even consider anything we say, let alone accept.


You being a joker equals anti Shiite syndrome??😂😂😂😂😂👍👍👍

This is the entertainment I like.😂😂😂

Keep at it.👍👍👍

Why do you poke your nose in if you then say.........”you are not going to consider anything we say”?????

Do you like TROLLING threads??

iceman

Re: Hundred Questions for Shias
« Reply #21 on: January 10, 2019, 03:11:37 PM »
The Beliefs of Ahl Sunnah regarding The Companions.Position of The Prophet’s companions among muslims.

After the Prophet, there is no other position that is higher and nobler beside the position of the companions, whom Allah is pleased of to court His noblest prophet and the last of the prophets He sent. And to defend His religion. They were the best among companions of His prophet and messenger.

Allah the Exalted had declared, in chapter AtTaubah/The Repentance: 100, which can be translated as,

“And of those who led the way – the first of the Emigrants (Muhajirun) and the Helpers (Ansar), and those who followed them in the best possible manner – Allah is well-pleased with them and they are well-pleased with Allah. He has prepared for them Gardens beneath which rivers flow; therein they will abide forever. That is the supreme triumph.”

The meaning of those who led the way (in embracing Islam), is none other than the companions -may Allah be pleased with them-.

The Messenger of Allah -peace and prayer of Allah be upon him- said,

“The best of men are the ones live at my time, and after them, and after them.” (Narrated by Bukhari, Muslim, and Tirmidhi).

The above is the belief of the Ahle Sunnah about companions of the Prophet s.a.w and their status.

Now lets look at the next bit keeping the above in mind.

Malik ibn Nuwaira (Arabic: مالك بن نويرة‎), also spelled as Malik ibn Nuwera, was a chief of the Bani Yarbu', a large section of the powerful tribe of Bani Tamim which inhabited the north-eastern region of Arabia, between Bahrain and Najd. The tribe was pagan until Islam came to Arabia. The centre of Malik's clan was Butah.

Famous for his generosity and hospitality, Malik is said to have kept a light burning outside his house all night so that any traveller passing that way would know where to find shelter and food. He would get up during the night to check the light. A strikingly handsome man, he had a thick head of hair and his face, a contemporary has said, was "as fine as the moon." He was skilful in the use of weapons and noted for his courage and chivalry, and he was an accomplished poet. Malik possessed all the qualities which the Arabs looked for in the perfect male. He was married to Layla bint al-Minhal who was considered to be one of the most beautiful women in Arabia.

In view of his distinguished position in the tribe and his unquestionable talents, Muhammad appointed him as an officer over the clan of Bani Handhalah. His main responsibility was the collection of taxes and their despatch to Madinah.

So what really is the belief of the Ahle Sunnah regarding the companions of the Prophet s.a.w? Is there an exception? If there is an exception for the Ahle Sunnah on companions of the Prophet s.a.w despite their belief regarding the companions then why can't the same be for the Ahle Tasheyu? 😊
« Last Edit: January 10, 2019, 03:17:34 PM by iceman »

muslim720

Re: Hundred Questions for Shias
« Reply #22 on: January 10, 2019, 03:31:09 PM »
Malik ibn Nuwaira (Arabic: مالك بن نويرة‎), also spelled as Malik ibn Nuwera, was a chief of the Bani Yarbu', a large section of the powerful tribe of Bani Tamim which inhabited the north-eastern region of Arabia, between Bahrain and Najd. The tribe was pagan until Islam came to Arabia. The centre of Malik's clan was Butah.

Famous for his generosity and hospitality, Malik is said to have kept a light burning outside his house all night so that any traveller passing that way would know where to find shelter and food. He would get up during the night to check the light. A strikingly handsome man, he had a thick head of hair and his face, a contemporary has said, was "as fine as the moon." He was skilful in the use of weapons and noted for his courage and chivalry, and he was an accomplished poet. Malik possessed all the qualities which the Arabs looked for in the perfect male. He was married to Layla bint al-Minhal who was considered to be one of the most beautiful women in Arabia.

Word for word, the same passage can be found at:

https://ipfs.io/ipfs/QmXoypizjW3WknFiJnKLwHCnL72vedxjQkDDP1mXWo6uco/wiki/Malik_ibn_Nuwayrah.html

https://www.revolvy.com/page/Malik-ibn-Nuwayrah?source=folders

The first link cites references but there is not a single reference for the passage you have copy-pasted.  In other words, the following "facts" cannot be substantiated:

1.  That Malik was generous and would keep a light burning.

2.  That Malik was a handsome and courageous man, also a poet.

3.  That Malik was married to one of the most beautiful women in Arabia.
"Our coward ran from those in authority" - Iceman (admitting the truth regarding his 12th Imam)

Mythbuster1

Re: Hundred Questions for Shias
« Reply #23 on: January 10, 2019, 04:37:14 PM »
Word for word, the same passage can be found at:

https://ipfs.io/ipfs/QmXoypizjW3WknFiJnKLwHCnL72vedxjQkDDP1mXWo6uco/wiki/Malik_ibn_Nuwayrah.html

https://www.revolvy.com/page/Malik-ibn-Nuwayrah?source=folders

The first link cites references but there is not a single reference for the passage you have copy-pasted.  In other words, the following "facts" cannot be substantiated:

1.  That Malik was generous and would keep a light burning.

2.  That Malik was a handsome and courageous man, also a poet.

3.  That Malik was married to one of the most beautiful women in Arabia.

Copy pasting is his game, he is copy pasting even if it there is no truth to it......

”As soon as Malik heard of the appointment of Abu Bakr as caliph, he gave back all the tax to his tribesmen, saying that "I will only pay taxes to the man chosen at Ghadeer " (Ali ibn Abu Taleb).

Read more: Malik ibn Nuwayrah | Revolvy https://www.revolvy.com/page/Malik-ibn-Nuwayrah?smv=3416626#ixzz5cD83xICO
Follow us: @RevolvyEarth on Twitter | RevolvyEarth on Facebook

😂😂😂😂👍😂👍👍

“To the man chosen at ghadeer”...........that there is the biggest lie and giveaway that it’s FAKE!!!

It really contradicts this

.............Source: البداية والنهاية (6/314، 315).
Al Bidayah wal nihayah 6/314,315.

In the book AL-`AWASIM MIN AL-QAWASIM by QADI ABU BAKR IBN AL-`ARABI he mentions that: Fatima lived for six months after the death of the Prophet, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, withdrawn in her house. `Ali was with her. He did not cease to pray the prayers behind the Siddiq. He [Ali[ra]] went out with him when Abu Bakr went out and unsheathed his sword to fight the apostates (Ahl ar-Ridda).

So according to the logic of iceman nuwera the apostate would only give taxes to imam Ali ra, yet imam Ali ra went out to fight against him!!🤔🤔

This guy iceman gets funnier by the post.😂😂😂😂😂👍👍👍👍

iceman

Re: Hundred Questions for Shias
« Reply #24 on: January 10, 2019, 06:14:07 PM »
Word for word, the same passage can be found at:

https://ipfs.io/ipfs/QmXoypizjW3WknFiJnKLwHCnL72vedxjQkDDP1mXWo6uco/wiki/Malik_ibn_Nuwayrah.html

https://www.revolvy.com/page/Malik-ibn-Nuwayrah?source=folders

The first link cites references but there is not a single reference for the passage you have copy-pasted.  In other words, the following "facts" cannot be substantiated:

1.  That Malik was generous and would keep a light burning.

2.  That Malik was a handsome and courageous man, also a poet.

3.  That Malik was married to one of the most beautiful women in Arabia.

I see you're very adamant about Malik bin Nuwayrah and are ready from the start to denounce and disregard everything about him. Anyways.just to move the discussion forward. Lets accept what you're saying. Answer me this,

was Malik bin Nuwayrah not a Companion of the Prophet s.a.w? And was he not a close companion where the Prophet s.a.w trusted him and gave him the positing and responsibility as a tax collector? Lets take it from here.

muslim720

Re: Hundred Questions for Shias
« Reply #25 on: January 10, 2019, 06:46:28 PM »
I see you're very adamant about Malik bin Nuwayrah and are ready from the start to denounce and disregard everything about him.

No, you do not see anything because if you could see, you would have noticed that you have copy-pasted statements without evidence.  If Malik was all that the passage says, why is there no reference?  In fact, the entire passage - making so many claims - does not have a single superscript or citation.

Quote
Anyways.just to move the discussion forward. Lets accept what you're saying. Answer me this,

Why do you want the discussion to move forward?  We are not keeping tabs but you have made this blunder over and over again.  And with no shame, you ask us to move forward.

You disregard authentic narrations from your own books and videos clearly showing your scholars spewing kufr because we bring them to you, without even acknowledging the fact that the references are strong.  And you want us to overlook your shady behavior and move on!

Quote
was Malik bin Nuwayrah not a Companion of the Prophet s.a.w? And was he not a close companion where the Prophet s.a.w trusted him and gave him the positing and responsibility as a tax collector? Lets take it from here.

It is shocking that someone's companionship to the Prophet (saw) matters to you when you clearly disregard Abu Bakr (ra), Umar (ra) and Uthman (ra).  Hypocrisy of the highest order!

Yes, Malik was a companion of the Prophet (saw).  However, he was NOT a close companion nor does entrusting with tax collection makes one absolutely trustworthy to the point of infallibility.  If anything, trusting someone to write the Qur'an is more important that collecting Zakat and Muawiya was entrusted with being a scribe of the Qur'an.  And we know how you feel about Muawiya so let us not play by Shi'i (double) standards.

As for Malik, he lost his companionship because he violated the most basic requirement for being a companion: to die upon Islam or to die as a Muslim.  And you cannot deny his apostasy because refusal to pay or give Zakat makes him an apostate, as per both Shi'i and Sunni schools.  In other words, the judgment is clear: he became an apostate, even as per authentic reports by your "infallible" Imams (ra).
"Our coward ran from those in authority" - Iceman (admitting the truth regarding his 12th Imam)

iceman

Re: Hundred Questions for Shias
« Reply #26 on: January 10, 2019, 07:32:46 PM »
No, you do not see anything because if you could see, you would have noticed that you have copy-pasted statements without evidence.  If Malik was all that the passage says, why is there no reference?  In fact, the entire passage - making so many claims - does not have a single superscript or citation.

Why do you want the discussion to move forward?  We are not keeping tabs but you have made this blunder over and over again.  And with no shame, you ask us to move forward.

You disregard authentic narrations from your own books and videos clearly showing your scholars spewing kufr because we bring them to you, without even acknowledging the fact that the references are strong.  And you want us to overlook your shady behavior and move on!

It is shocking that someone's companionship to the Prophet (saw) matters to you when you clearly disregard Abu Bakr (ra), Umar (ra) and Uthman (ra).  Hypocrisy of the highest order!

Yes, Malik was a companion of the Prophet (saw).  However, he was NOT a close companion nor does entrusting with tax collection makes one absolutely trustworthy to the point of infallibility.  If anything, trusting someone to write the Qur'an is more important that collecting Zakat and Muawiya was entrusted with being a scribe of the Qur'an.  And we know how you feel about Muawiya so let us not play by Shi'i (double) standards.

As for Malik, he lost his companionship because he violated the most basic requirement for being a companion: to die upon Islam or to die as a Muslim.  And you cannot deny his apostasy because refusal to pay or give Zakat makes him an apostate, as per both Shi'i and Sunni schools.  In other words, the judgment is clear: he became an apostate, even as per authentic reports by your "infallible" Imams (ra).

"No, you do not see anything because if you could see, you would have noticed that you have copy-pasted statements without evidence.  If Malik was all that the passage says, why is there no reference?  In fact, the entire passage - making so many claims - does not have a single superscript or citation"

Once again rather than discussing you get all emotional and personal and start an argument by letting off tantrums. Calm down and take a deep breath. Stick to a principal rather than throwing yourself all over the place and making rules and regulations as you go along.

You talk about copy and paste, information from Sunni sites which favour and please, reference or no reference then that is fine and acceptable. Why, because it suits you. Anyways. OK Malik wasn't what the passage says but was he a close companion or not? That's the main point which you can't run from.

iceman

Re: Hundred Questions for Shias
« Reply #27 on: January 10, 2019, 09:36:53 PM »
As for Malik, he lost his companionship because he violated the most basic requirement for being a companion"

So one can lose their companionship. Bravo! Thank you very very much for accepting and confirming that. Much obliged. That is what I was working towards. Thanks for assisting me.

"And you cannot deny his apostasy"

Deny his apostasy? We have a difference in opinion over that. But thanks for pointing out that once a companion isn't always a companion.

Now if someone believes in the same about any other companion for what ever reason which you differ on then why does that send your blood pressure well over the mark?

"because refusal to pay or give Zakat makes him an apostate"

I strongly disagree with that. I believe in freedom of speech and belief.

"as per both Shi'i and Sunni schools.  In other words, the judgment is clear"

Nothing is more important than the Qur'an. Both schools of thought depend and rely on the Qur'an.

"he became an apostate"

So a companion can become an apostate, if one sees a companion of hypocrisy then what seems to be the problem?

"even as per authentic reports by your "infallible" Imams (ra)"

No problem. Can you back these reports and their authenticity from the Qur'an? Or how do we scale and measure? Be it you or us, do we pick from books and automatically accept what suits us and what we're comfortable and satisfied with? And if it's vice versa then all of a sudden we want evidence from the Qur'an regarding certain material from the same books. 😑

"It is shocking that someone's companionship to the Prophet (saw) matters to you when you clearly disregard Abu Bakr (ra), Umar (ra) and Uthman (ra).  Hypocrisy of the highest order!"

No, not at all. You've got me all wrong and you always have. I'm not like you, Hani or any of the others. I believe and have principles. To me companionship should be at a whole if that's what you believe in.

If believe that companions are not 'Masoom' but 'mehfooz' and all companions will go to heaven and once a companion always a companion and this verse applies to the companions then I will stick to it. I won't have double standards and there will be no exceptions be it Sahabiath or Caliphate and my belief in the status and reputation of companions and caliphs.

I don't believe in double standards. And if I believe in exception then I will give the same right of belief to the others. You don't do that. You for instance will step in the ring for example for a boxing match and will make your own rules as you go along. And you will make and have a different set of rules for your opponent. The same you do at discussions and in arguments.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2019, 09:50:26 PM by iceman »

iceman

Re: Hundred Questions for Shias
« Reply #28 on: January 10, 2019, 09:55:49 PM »
Word for word, the same passage can be found at:

https://ipfs.io/ipfs/QmXoypizjW3WknFiJnKLwHCnL72vedxjQkDDP1mXWo6uco/wiki/Malik_ibn_Nuwayrah.html

https://www.revolvy.com/page/Malik-ibn-Nuwayrah?source=folders

The first link cites references but there is not a single reference for the passage you have copy-pasted.  In other words, the following "facts" cannot be substantiated:

1.  That Malik was generous and would keep a light burning.

2.  That Malik was a handsome and courageous man, also a poet.

3.  That Malik was married to one of the most beautiful women in Arabia.

Ok and what about post #14? Did the cat get your tongue there? It was straight out of Sehih Bukhari. Or do you just pick and choose on what you need to respond to just like your belief.

muslim720

Re: Hundred Questions for Shias
« Reply #29 on: January 10, 2019, 10:06:59 PM »
Once again rather than discussing you get all emotional and personal and start an argument by letting off tantrums.

The passage you copy-pasted has no references.  It is a fact!  Show me otherwise or cut the nonsense that I am getting "all emotional and personal".

Quote
Calm down and take a deep breath.

Was this bit necessary for you to type?

Quote
Stick to a principal rather than throwing yourself all over the place and making rules and regulations as you go along.

You wanted to move forward and discuss Malik.  Now that it has backfired, you want to cry foul.  Have some respect for your madhhab, if not for your own self.  You are making a mockery out of Shia Islam.

Quote
You talk about copy and paste, information from Sunni sites which favour and please, reference or no reference then that is fine and acceptable. Why, because it suits you.

Two reasons for that:

1.  You will not accept our sources although I am sure you know our position on Malik bin Nuwayrah.

2.  What I have said is unanimously agreed upon by Sunnis so the fact that no Sunni here has corrected me should tell you that this is authentic information, according to our sources.

Quote
Anyways. OK Malik wasn't what the passage says but was he a close companion or not? That's the main point which you can't run from.

You really need to work on curbing your tantrums and start reading better.  As I said, Malik was a companion, not a close one by any stretch of imagination.  The fact that he considered paying or giving Zakat void made him an apostate according to Shi'i and Sunni standards.  Therefore, he did not remain a companion....far from it!

However, if you want to make him a "close" companion for being tasked with collecting Zakat from his tribe, what do you say regarding Muawiya who was entrusted with being a Qur'anic scribe?  Don't try to answer it!  We already know your hypocrisy.
"Our coward ran from those in authority" - Iceman (admitting the truth regarding his 12th Imam)

muslim720

Re: Hundred Questions for Shias
« Reply #30 on: January 10, 2019, 10:13:06 PM »
Ok and what about post #14? Did the cat get your tongue there? It was straight out of Sehih Bukhari. Or do you just pick and choose on what you need to respond to just like your belief.

Did it have to do with Malik bin Nuwayrah?  No!  So how is it relevant?

You are throwing red-herrings because you are in over your head.

However, here is the narration:

Narrated by Anas:
A group of people from 'Ukl (tribe) came to the Prophet and they were living with the people of As-Suffa, but they became ill as the climate of Medina did not suit them, so they said, "O Allah's Apostle! Provide us with milk."  The Prophet said, I see no other way for you than to use the camels of Allah's Apostle."  So they went and drank the milk and urine of the camels, (as medicine) and became healthy and fat.  Then they killed the shepherd and took the camels away.  When a help-seeker came to Allah's Apostle, he sent some men in their pursuit, and they were captured and brought before mid day.  The Prophet ordered for some iron pieces to be made red hot, and their eyes were branded with them and their hands and feet were cut off and were not cauterized.  Then they were put at a place called Al-Harra, and when they asked for water to drink they were not given till they died.

Did you miss that part?  Maybe these men should have killed Imam Ali or one of his sons (may Allah's peace and blessings be upon them).....then you would have seen their crime.

It is an amazing situation!  You are ready to condemn Khalid ibn Walid (ra) to the worst place in Hell for killing Malik bin Nuwayrah but you somehow miss the part where these men killed the shepherd of the camels of the Holy Prophet (saw).
« Last Edit: January 10, 2019, 10:15:15 PM by muslim720 »
"Our coward ran from those in authority" - Iceman (admitting the truth regarding his 12th Imam)

iceman

Re: Hundred Questions for Shias
« Reply #31 on: January 10, 2019, 11:22:31 PM »
Did it have to do with Malik bin Nuwayrah?  No!  So how is it relevant?

You are throwing red-herrings because you are in over your head.

However, here is the narration:

Narrated by Anas:
A group of people from 'Ukl (tribe) came to the Prophet and they were living with the people of As-Suffa, but they became ill as the climate of Medina did not suit them, so they said, "O Allah's Apostle! Provide us with milk."  The Prophet said, I see no other way for you than to use the camels of Allah's Apostle."  So they went and drank the milk and urine of the camels, (as medicine) and became healthy and fat.  Then they killed the shepherd and took the camels away.  When a help-seeker came to Allah's Apostle, he sent some men in their pursuit, and they were captured and brought before mid day.  The Prophet ordered for some iron pieces to be made red hot, and their eyes were branded with them and their hands and feet were cut off and were not cauterized.  Then they were put at a place called Al-Harra, and when they asked for water to drink they were not given till they died.

Did you miss that part?  Maybe these men should have killed Imam Ali or one of his sons (may Allah's peace and blessings be upon them).....then you would have seen their crime.

It is an amazing situation!  You are ready to condemn Khalid ibn Walid (ra) to the worst place in Hell for killing Malik bin Nuwayrah but you somehow miss the part where these men killed the shepherd of the camels of the Holy Prophet (saw).

"Did it have to do with Malik bin Nuwayrah?  No!  So how is it relevant?"

Don't look for excuses.

"You are throwing red-herrings because you are in over your head"

No. You pick and choose when it comes to addressing and answering.

No I didn't miss any part. They killed a shepherd and because of this crime what did the Prophet s.a.w order according to your books and scholars, and this is one of your reliable and authentic books by the way. So no excuses.

"The Prophet ordered for some iron pieces to be made red hot, and their eyes were branded with them and their hands and feet were cut off and were not cauterized.  Then they were put at a place called Al-Harra, and when they asked for water to drink they were not given till they died"

Did you miss the above bit or just skip it? What the Prophet s.a.w ordered is against the Qur'an and Sunnah. It doesn’t fit with the Prophet's s.a.w nature and personality. He didn't even do that to those pagan Makkans during the taking of Mecca on the terrible crimes and atrocities they committed for nearly 20 years against Islam, the Prophet s.a.w and the Muslims.

"It is an amazing situation!  You are ready to condemn Khalid ibn Walid (ra) to the worst place in Hell for killing Malik bin Nuwayrah but you somehow miss the part where these men killed the shepherd of the camels of the Holy Prophet (saw)"

I haven't condemned Khalid or Abu Bakr or Umar or Muawiya in Hell or anywhere else. This is your problem that your head and ego is too far stuck up with in the Anti Shia sentiment.

These men killed a shepherd but do you honestly believe in what the Prophet s.a.w ordered? Come on, go on, admit it, your authentic books have some crap in it. Or justify it. Is this what the Qur'an and Sunnah says and orders?
« Last Edit: January 10, 2019, 11:29:06 PM by iceman »

iceman

Re: Hundred Questions for Shias
« Reply #32 on: January 10, 2019, 11:41:30 PM »
The passage you copy-pasted has no references.  It is a fact!  Show me otherwise or cut the nonsense that I am getting "all emotional and personal".

Was this bit necessary for you to type?

You wanted to move forward and discuss Malik.  Now that it has backfired, you want to cry foul.  Have some respect for your madhhab, if not for your own self.  You are making a mockery out of Shia Islam.

Two reasons for that:

1.  You will not accept our sources although I am sure you know our position on Malik bin Nuwayrah.

2.  What I have said is unanimously agreed upon by Sunnis so the fact that no Sunni here has corrected me should tell you that this is authentic information, according to our sources.

You really need to work on curbing your tantrums and start reading better.  As I said, Malik was a companion, not a close one by any stretch of imagination.  The fact that he considered paying or giving Zakat void made him an apostate according to Shi'i and Sunni standards.  Therefore, he did not remain a companion....far from it!

However, if you want to make him a "close" companion for being tasked with collecting Zakat from his tribe, what do you say regarding Muawiya who was entrusted with being a Qur'anic scribe?  Don't try to answer it!  We already know your hypocrisy.

I don't want you to move forward and discuss Malik bin Nuwayrah. We've already discussed his situation. And here is one report from your site.

According to one report, their mu’adhin, a person by the name of Abu al Jalal, was absent, which was the reason why no adhan was heard.5 It has even been reported that they encountered armed resistance from Malik and his men at an oasis called al Ba’udah.6 Those who put up the resistance, including Malik, were captured and brought before Sayyidina Khalid radiya Llahu `anhu. He decided that they must be put to death. This is how Malik ibn Nuwayrah was killed.

In Sayyidina Khalid’s party was the Sahabi Sayyidina Abu Qatadah radiya Llahu `anhu. He was amongst those who claimed that they had seen Malik’s people making salah. He was thus understandably upset at the decision of Sayyidina Khalid radiya Llahu `anhu, and returned immediately to Madinah to complain to Sayyidina Abu Bakr radiya Llahu `anhu.

Sayyidina `Umar radiya Llahu `anhu insisted that Khalid be removed from his position as commander on account of his impetuousness. Khalid was summoned back to Madinah and interrogated by the khalifah, who concluded that Khalid’s deed was an error of judgement, for which it was not necessary to dismiss him.

We're discussing companions of the Prophet s.a.w and their status according to the Ahle Sunnah. Not how close they were or weren't. Malik ibn Nuwayrah was a companion and you believe he became an apostate after the demise of the Prophet s.a.w. which is much more serious than accusing a companion of being a hypocrite or getting something wrong or accusing them of hidden or I'll intentions. You have one principle for yourself on and regarding the companions and your can't even stick to it.

iceman

Re: Hundred Questions for Shias
« Reply #33 on: January 11, 2019, 03:27:07 AM »
Question 3. If you accuse them of hypocrisy, then please explain how can they be hypocrites in a society where the Muslims were severely oppressed? The Quraish were extreme in their cruel behavior with the Muslims. Avoiding conjectures and speculations, provide solid proofs of their hypocrisy during that period"

Answer 3. Who accused them of hypocrisy during the early period? If you talk about the early period of Islam then there are different reports on how and what made Umar accept Islam. But if we're talking about the life time of Umar then some people hold the following view.

Before accepting Islam, Umar was one of the most rabid enemies of Muhammad, the Messenger of God.

When Muhammad proclaimed his mission, many people acknowledged him as the Messenger of God. Umar acknowledged him as Messenger of God after six years.

Some historians claim that Umar was a most awe-inspiring man, and when he accepted Islam, the idolaters were gripped with fear for their lives. But this is only a case of a dominant myth being in conflict with ugly facts.

When Umar accepted Islam, the idolaters remained where they were, and nothing changed for them; but it was Muhammad who was compelled to leave his home, and had to find sanctuary in a desolate ravine.

He spent three years in that ravine, and during those years of exile, his life was exposed to deadly perils every day and every night. During this entire period of more than 1000 days, Umar, like many other Muslims in Makkah, was the silent spectator of the ordeals of his master. He made no attempt to bring those ordeals to an end.

Muhammad Mustafa established brotherhood among Muslims both in Makkah and in Medina. In Makkah, he made Umar the “brother” of Abu Bakr, and in Medina, he made him the “brother” of Utban bin Malik. For his own brother, Muhammad chose Ali ibn Abi Talib in both cities.

In 3 A.H., Umar's daughter, Hafsa, was married to the Apostle.

Umar was one of the fugitives of the battle of Uhud (Baladhuri). He himself said later;

“When Muslim were defeated in Uhud, I ran toward the mountain.” (Suyuti in al-Durr al-Manthoor).

At the siege of Khyber, Umar made an attempt to capture the fortress but failed.

Umar was one of the fugitives of the battle of Hunayn. Abu Qatada, a companion of the Prophet, says: “In Hunayn when the Muslims were fleeing, I also fled, and I saw Umar with others.” (Bukhari and Kitabul-Maghazi).

In 8 A.H. the Apostle sent Umar as a ranker with many others to report for duty to Amr bin Aas, their commanding officer, in the campaign of Dhat es-Salasil.

In 11 A.H. the Apostle of God organized the Syrian expedition and he appointed Usama bin Zayd bin Haritha as its general. He ordered Umar to serve as a ranker in the expedition.

Though Umar spent eighteen years in the company of Muhammad Mustafa, the Messenger of God, the latter never appointed him to any position of authority, civil or military.

When the Apostle of God was on his deathbed, he asked the companions to bring pen, paper and ink so he might dictate his will but Umar defied him. He did not let the Apostle dictate his will and testament.

Umar was not present at the funeral of the Prophet of Islam. He was brawling with the Ansar in the outhouse of Saqifa when the body of the Prophet was being buried.

Umar was the khalifa-maker of Abu Bakr. During Abu Bakr's khilafat, Umar was his principal adviser.

The Banu Umayya were the traditional champions of idolatry and the arch-enemies of Muhammad and his clan, the Banu Hashim. Muhammad had broken their power but Umar revived them. The central component of his policy, as head of the government of Saqifa, was the restoration of the Umayyads. He turned over Syria to them as their “fief,” and he made them the first family in the empire.

A modern student of history might find claims made on behalf of some companions of the Prophet rather extravagant and baffling. He might notice in them the clash of popular imagination with historical reality.

But if he wishes to make a realistic evaluation of the roles they played in the lifetime of the Prophet, there is no better way of doing so than to turn away from rhapsody and rhetoric, and to focus attention on facts and facts alone.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2019, 03:42:03 AM by iceman »

muslim720

Re: Hundred Questions for Shias
« Reply #34 on: January 11, 2019, 04:03:52 AM »
Don't look for excuses.

No. You pick and choose when it comes to addressing and answering.

On one hand you accuse me of making excuses and in the very next post you say, "I don't want you to move forward and discuss Malik bin Nuwayrah."

Well then why did you bring him up?

Quote
No I didn't miss any part. They killed a shepherd and because of this crime what did the Prophet s.a.w order according to your books and scholars, and this is one of your reliable and authentic books by the way. So no excuses.

I do not expect you, or you scholars, to know the Qur'an but I will prove this from the Qur'an.  Have patience.

Quote
Did you miss the above bit or just skip it? What the Prophet s.a.w ordered is against the Qur'an and Sunnah.

"The recompense of those who fight Allah and His messenger, and seek to make corruption in the land, is that they be killed or crucified or that their hands and feet be cut off from alternate sides or that they be banished from the land; that is their disgrace in this world and in the Hereafter they will have a great torment." (Qur'an 5:33)

How many times do we Sunnis have to introduce you to the Qur'an?

Quote
It doesn’t fit with the Prophet's s.a.w nature and personality.

In the Name of Allah (swt), please read the basic translation of the Qur'an.  You are representing Shias worse than Christian missionaries present Christianity.

Quote
I haven't condemned Khalid or Abu Bakr or Umar or Muawiya in Hell or anywhere else. This is your problem that your head and ego is too far stuck up with in the Anti Shia sentiment.

No time for taqiyyah!

Quote
These men killed a shepherd but do you honestly believe in what the Prophet s.a.w ordered? Come on, go on, admit it, your authentic books have some crap in it. Or justify it. Is this what the Qur'an and Sunnah says and orders?

The punishment is clearly spelled in the Book of Allah (swt).  Crap?

"The recompense of those who fight Allah and His messenger, and seek to make corruption in the land, is that they be killed or crucified or that their hands and feet be cut off from alternate sides or that they be banished from the land; that is their disgrace in this world and in the Hereafter they will have a great torment." (Qur'an 5:33)

Quote
Before accepting Islam, Umar was one of the most rabid enemies of Muhammad, the Messenger of God.

When Muhammad proclaimed his mission, many people acknowledged him as the Messenger of God. Umar acknowledged him as Messenger of God after six years.

Some historians claim that Umar was a most awe-inspiring man, and when he accepted Islam, the idolaters were gripped with fear for their lives. But this is only a case of a dominant myth being in conflict with ugly facts.

When Umar accepted Islam, the idolaters remained where they were, and nothing changed for them; but it was Muhammad who was compelled to leave his home, and had to find sanctuary in a desolate ravine.

He spent three years in that ravine, and during those years of exile, his life was exposed to deadly perils every day and every night. During this entire period of more than 1000 days, Umar, like many other Muslims in Makkah, was the silent spectator of the ordeals of his master. He made no attempt to bring those ordeals to an end.

Muhammad Mustafa established brotherhood among Muslims both in Makkah and in Medina. In Makkah, he made Umar the “brother” of Abu Bakr, and in Medina, he made him the “brother” of Utban bin Malik. For his own brother, Muhammad chose Ali ibn Abi Talib in both cities.

In 3 A.H., Umar's daughter, Hafsa, was married to the Apostle.

Umar was one of the fugitives of the battle of Uhud (Baladhuri). He himself said later;

“When Muslim were defeated in Uhud, I ran toward the mountain.” (Suyuti in al-Durr al-Manthoor).

At the siege of Khyber, Umar made an attempt to capture the fortress but failed.

Umar was one of the fugitives of the battle of Hunayn. Abu Qatada, a companion of the Prophet, says: “In Hunayn when the Muslims were fleeing, I also fled, and I saw Umar with others.” (Bukhari and Kitabul-Maghazi).

In 8 A.H. the Apostle sent Umar as a ranker with many others to report for duty to Amr bin Aas, their commanding officer, in the campaign of Dhat es-Salasil.

In 11 A.H. the Apostle of God organized the Syrian expedition and he appointed Usama bin Zayd bin Haritha as its general. He ordered Umar to serve as a ranker in the expedition.

Though Umar spent eighteen years in the company of Muhammad Mustafa, the Messenger of God, the latter never appointed him to any position of authority, civil or military.

When the Apostle of God was on his deathbed, he asked the companions to bring pen, paper and ink so he might dictate his will but Umar defied him. He did not let the Apostle dictate his will and testament.

Umar was not present at the funeral of the Prophet of Islam. He was brawling with the Ansar in the outhouse of Saqifa when the body of the Prophet was being buried.

Umar was the khalifa-maker of Abu Bakr. During Abu Bakr's khilafat, Umar was his principal adviser.

In the previous post, you said, "I haven't condemned Khalid or Abu Bakr or Umar or Muawiya in Hell or anywhere else" whereas what you have copy-pasted regarding Umar (ra) says otherwise.

I can refute you on every single point but why waste my time when your own first "infallible" Imam (ra) darkened your faces by marrying his own daughter to Umar (ra).  So, according to your principle, Imam Ali (ra) married his daughter to such a horrible man.  So much for being a "Divinely Appointed Guide" having "knowledge of the unseen".
"Our coward ran from those in authority" - Iceman (admitting the truth regarding his 12th Imam)

iceman

Re: Hundred Questions for Shias
« Reply #35 on: January 11, 2019, 04:04:08 AM »
Companion of the Prophet s.a.w, what would be the definition of a companion and who would you consider a companion. Someone in the company of the Prophet s.a.w?

Sehih Bukhari
Volume 8, Book 81, Number 771 :
Narrated by 'Umar bin Al-Khattab
During the lifetime of the Prophet there was a man called 'Abdullah whose nickname was Donkey, and he used to make Allah's Apostle laugh. The Prophet lashed him because of drinking (alcohol). And one-day he was brought to the Prophet on the same charge and was lashed. On that, a man among the people said, "O Allah, curse him ! How frequently he has been brought (to the Prophet on such a charge)!" The Prophet said, "Do not curse him, for by Allah, I know for he loves Allah and His Apostle."

"I can refute you on every single point but why waste my time when your own first "infallible" Imam (ra) darkened your faces by marrying his own daughter to Umar (ra)"

We don't believe in these made up tales. It doesn't even add up. Fatima was too young for him never mind about her daughter.

"So, according to your principle, Imam Ali (ra) married his daughter to such a horrible man"

No he didn't. When he asked for Fatima's hand in marriage the Prophet s.a.w turned him down saying "Fatima is too young". Put something forward that adds up and makes sense.

So much for being a "Divinely Appointed Guide" having "knowledge of the unseen".

😀
« Last Edit: January 11, 2019, 04:10:42 AM by iceman »

iceman

Re: Hundred Questions for Shias
« Reply #36 on: January 11, 2019, 04:20:54 AM »
Just for you Muslim 720,

Qur'an (3:180)

"And let not those who [greedily] withhold what Allah has given them of His bounty ever think that it is better for them. Rather, it is worse for them. Their necks will be encircled by what they withheld on the Day of Resurrection. And to Allah belongs the heritage of the heavens and the earth. And Allah, with what you do, is [fully] Acquainted"

Sehih Bukhari
Volume 2, Book 24, Number 486 :
Narrated by Abu Huraira

"Allah's Apostle said, "Whoever is made wealthy by Allah and does not pay the Zakat of his wealth, then on the Day of Resurrection his wealth will be made like a bald-headed poisonous male snake with two black spots over the eyes. The snake will encircle his neck and bite his cheeks and say, 'I am your wealth, I am your treasure.' " Then the Prophet recited the holy verses:-- 'Let not those who withhold . . .' (to the end of the verse). (3.180)."

My dear absolutely nothing in the Qur'an or Bukhari about capital punishment if you don't pay Zakah. 😊
« Last Edit: January 11, 2019, 04:24:10 AM by iceman »

muslim720

Re: Hundred Questions for Shias
« Reply #37 on: January 11, 2019, 04:24:29 AM »
We don't believe in these made up tales.

Not surprised by you denying another fact.  You do not even obey your own "infallible" Imams (ra) on their ruling on those who refuse to pay or give Zakat.

Quote
It doesn't even add up. Fatima was too young for him never mind about her daughter.

You can ask your first "infallible" Imam (ra) why he married such a young girl to Umar (ra).

By the way, did you find the punishment prescribed by Allah (swt) that I quoted from the Qur'an?  I knew you would not dare respond because not only do we (Sunnis) always school you on the Qur'an, we actually gave you the Qur'an, lol.
"Our coward ran from those in authority" - Iceman (admitting the truth regarding his 12th Imam)

iceman

Re: Hundred Questions for Shias
« Reply #38 on: January 12, 2019, 04:16:49 AM »
Not surprised by you denying another fact.  You do not even obey your own "infallible" Imams (ra) on their ruling on those who refuse to pay or give Zakat.

You can ask your first "infallible" Imam (ra) why he married such a young girl to Umar (ra).

By the way, did you find the punishment prescribed by Allah (swt) that I quoted from the Qur'an?  I knew you would not dare respond because not only do we (Sunnis) always school you on the Qur'an, we actually gave you the Qur'an, lol.

"Not surprised by you denying another fact.  You do not even obey your own "infallible" Imams (ra) on their ruling on those who refuse to pay or give Zakat"

CAN YOU PROVE IT FROM THE QUR'AN. CAN YOU REALLY DIG IT.

"You can ask your first "infallible" Imam (ra) why he married such a young girl to Umar (ra)"

HE DIDN'T. He wasn't good enough for Fatima. He was turned down there point blank. Would you marry your daughter to a great grandfather? He was Fatima's grandfather. So that would make him Kulsoom's great grandfather. These silly stories were created by the Ummayads.

"By the way, did you find the punishment prescribed by Allah (swt) that I quoted from the Qur'an?"

Come again. Since you and your sidekicks bring in so much irrelevant stuff one does loose track. It's obvious if you've got a pack of hyenas to deal with at the same time.

iceman

Re: Hundred Questions for Shias
« Reply #39 on: January 13, 2019, 09:29:24 AM »
Sehih Bukhari
Volume 9, Book 83, Number 5 :
Narrated by Al-Miqdad bin 'Amr Al-Kindi

"An ally of Bani Zuhra who took part in the battle of Badr with the Prophet, that he said, "O Allah's Apostle! If I meet an unbeliever and we have a fight, and he strikes my hand with the sword and cuts it off, and then takes refuge from me under a tree, and says, 'I have surrendered to Allah (i.e. embraced Islam),' may I kill him after he has said so?"

Allah's Apostle said, "Do not kill him." Al-Miqdad said, "But O Allah's Apostle! He had chopped off one of my hands and he said that after he had cut it off. May I kill him?" The Prophet said. "Do not kill him for if you kill him, he would be in the position in which you had been before you kill him, and you would be in the position in which he was before he said the sentence."

The Prophet also said to Al-Miqdad, "If a faithful believer conceals his faith (Islam) from the disbelievers, and then when he declares his Islam, you kill him, (you will be sinful). Remember that you were also concealing your faith (Islam) at Mecca before."

CONCEALS HIS FAITH? There's certain people who keep yapping on about TAQIYYAH. There you go.

 

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