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Hundred Questions for Shias

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iceman

Re: Hundred Questions for Shias
« Reply #60 on: January 15, 2019, 06:22:38 AM »
Have you able to comprehend Question 7, @iceman?

Would you like to be my guest and break down question 7 for me. Before I give another unsatisfactory answer or something along those lines.

iceman

Re: Hundred Questions for Shias
« Reply #61 on: January 15, 2019, 07:16:42 AM »
No, it is very clear for everyone to see that the one preaching Imamah cannot seem to obey his own "infallible" Imams (ra).  I do not blame you; it is easier to write about, and preach, fiction than to believe it.

As for every serious matter being in the Qur'an, Zakat is in the Qur'an whereas Imamah (in the Shi'i sense) is not.  I know it hurts; that is why we see you flatter in pain all over the place.

In Urdu, they say, "choree uppar se seena zoree".  In Dari, which is similar to your "divine" language of Farsi, we say, "naree wa gharee".

You brought a hadith from our book regarding certain men having their hands and feet chopped off and left to die.  On that basis, you said that our books contain "crap" and openly declared that such a practice is against the Qur'an and Sunnah.  I showed you the exact punishment from the Qur'an.  The fact that you are still arguing with me, instead of realizing your blunder and keeping your mouth shut, gives us a glimpse of your endless shamelessness.  However, I am not surprised.  So many Shias before you, even Syed Ali of Bayat-al-Ghadeer, mocked one of our narrations in one of the Sahihain and then we found out that the exact same thing is mentioned in the Qur'an.

We gave you the Qur'an, we educate you on it regularly and not even a thank-you.

Regarding Zakah, your own "infallible" Imam (ra) has declared refusal to pay or give Zakah a form of apostasy, punishable by death.  The fact that you reject the statement of your own Imam (ra) tells me that you will reject my Qur'anic references (on Fadak) which is exactly why I will share those references. 

As for Fadak, another red-herring introduced in the discussion, the Qur'an categorically and explicitly rejects the notion that Fay (which Fadak was) can have individual owners.

Surah Hashr verse 7:
"What God has bestowed on His Apostle (and taken away) from the people of the townships,- belongs to God,- to His Apostle and to kindred and orphans, the needy and the wayfarer; in order that it may not (merely) make a circuit between the wealthy among you. So take what the Apostle assigns to you, and deny yourselves that which he withholds from you. And fear God; for God is strict in Punishment."

Translation, such a property cannot be under the ownership of a few, let alone one individual.

I did!  The Qur'an agrees with the punishment meted out to those men (as stated in Sahih Bukhari) and it also refutes the notion that Fay can have individual owner(s).

"No, it is very clear for everyone to see that the one preaching Imamah cannot seem to obey his own "infallible" Imams (ra).  I do not blame you; it is easier to write about, and preach, fiction than to believe it"

Oh I most definitely believe them and in them but not everything that is attributed towards them or linked to them. Qur'an is the scale, the measuring device. You keep yapping on but can't produce anything from the Qur'an concerning what I asked. Keep beating around the bush.

"As for every serious matter being in the Qur'an, Zakat is in the Qur'an whereas Imamah (in the Shi'i sense) is not.  I know it hurts; that is why we see you flatter in pain all over the place"

First it was "prove Imamah from the Qur'an" and you put up a confrontational stance on that. Then you finally accepted that and now we have "prove Imamah (in shia sense)" in brackets. I say at least we're getting somewhere. Imamah has been proven from the Qur'an and you've eventually accepted it. That's a breakthrough. So we can move forward from here.

Zakat is mentioned in the Qur'an and so is Imamah. The rest of the details lie with the Prophet. And the Prophet s.a.w has mentioned about Zakah and Imamah.

"In Urdu, they say, "choree uppar se seena zoree".  In Dari, which is similar to your "divine" language of Farsi, we say, "naree wa gharee"

Yes I'm familiar with that phrase. That's exactly what you're doing. You demand but unfortunately can't deliver when asked.

Mythbuster1

Re: Hundred Questions for Shias
« Reply #62 on: January 15, 2019, 07:37:45 AM »

Zakat is mentioned in the Qur'an and so is Imamah. The rest of the details lie with the Prophet. And the Prophet s.a.w has mentioned about Zakah and Imamah.


Divine Imamate is NOT in the Quran and you know it, you ADD divine in yourself and you know it since you cannot prove it from the Quran you have to twist the word imam to a divine one and use prophets as examples by using one verse that is vague on divine Imamate.

The prophet saw NEVER gave details or established or guided us to a nonsense stupid belief of divine imams either, only in Shiite beliefs does a prophet contradict the Quran astaghfirullah by not being promoted to a divine imam.

“Prophethood “divine” messegerhood “divine” imam “divine” “

So where is or was the automatic promotion?


iceman

Re: Hundred Questions for Shias
« Reply #63 on: January 15, 2019, 09:20:40 AM »
Divine Imamate is NOT in the Quran and you know it, you ADD divine in yourself and you know it since you cannot prove it from the Quran you have to twist the word imam to a divine one and use prophets as examples by using one verse that is vague on divine Imamate.

The prophet saw NEVER gave details or established or guided us to a nonsense stupid belief of divine imams either, only in Shiite beliefs does a prophet contradict the Quran astaghfirullah by not being promoted to a divine imam.

“Prophethood “divine” messegerhood “divine” imam “divine” “

So where is or was the automatic promotion?

No it don't. Just as Messenger hood and Prophecy is divine so is Imamah. You tell me or in fact ask yourself was Abraham promoted, was he demoted, was he given a title of a similar status or was it something else? Or what do you make of it?

What is the whole point of Abraham being tried and then being made an Imam. What's point? What's the catch here? Are you going to say there was no means to it? Allah gave examples in the Qur'an. When was Muhammad s.a.w promoted? You need to ask Allah that. You won't get every single thing in the Qur'an.

If that's how you are going to throw questions around one after the other based on ifs and buts then ask yourself this, how many Messengers have there been? 124,000. Can you prove this from the Qur'an? Can you give me the names of all 124,000 from the Qur'an?

See what I mean. Stop being silly. Abraham was promoted because he was a Messenger and a Prophet before being made an Imam.

Mythbuster1

Re: Hundred Questions for Shias
« Reply #64 on: January 15, 2019, 10:44:57 AM »
No it don't. Just as Messenger hood and Prophecy is divine so is Imamah. You tell me or in fact ask yourself was Abraham promoted, was he demoted, was he given a title of a similar status or was it something else? Or what do you make of it?

What is the whole point of Abraham being tried and then being made an Imam. What's point? What's the catch here? Are you going to say there was no means to it? Allah gave examples in the Qur'an. When was Muhammad s.a.w promoted? You need to ask Allah that. You won't get every single thing in the Qur'an.

If that's how you are going to throw questions around one after the other based on ifs and buts then ask yourself this, how many Messengers have there been? 124,000. Can you prove this from the Qur'an? Can you give me the names of all 124,000 from the Qur'an?

See what I mean. Stop being silly. Abraham was promoted because he was a Messenger and a Prophet before being made an Imam.

Lol 😂😂😂😂😂 iceman Shiites great intellectual logic comes into play.

Allah swt sends divine imamah as a promotion after prophethood and icebox carries on with that idea, when you ask icebox why the same formula isn’t at play with the last prophet saw......he icebox says.......”you need to ask Allah swt that”

This guy believes in a divine Imamate that he doesn’t know why Allah swt didn’t bless the last prophet saw with!

So like I said divine Imamate is a figment of your imagination that’s not been implemented or is true and you can’t for the life of you explain or find such a stupid idea apart from coming from your head.

Yes He was a great leader/imam alhamdulillah and is remembered as such........not the DIVINE one you made up and falsely attribute to Him.😉

iceman

Re: Hundred Questions for Shias
« Reply #65 on: January 15, 2019, 12:06:10 PM »
Lol 😂😂😂😂😂 iceman Shiites great intellectual logic comes into play.

Allah swt sends divine imamah as a promotion after prophethood and icebox carries on with that idea, when you ask icebox why the same formula isn’t at play with the last prophet saw......he icebox says.......”you need to ask Allah swt that”

This guy believes in a divine Imamate that he doesn’t know why Allah swt didn’t bless the last prophet saw with!

So like I said divine Imamate is a figment of your imagination that’s not been implemented or is true and you can’t for the life of you explain or find such a stupid idea apart from coming from your head.

Yes He was a great leader/imam alhamdulillah and is remembered as such........not the DIVINE one you made up and falsely attribute to Him.😉

"when you ask icebox why the same formula isn’t at play with the last prophet saw......"

The last prophet saw was above Abraham in status. So the Last prophet saw was a Messenger, Prophet and an Imam as well. What I mean is if you ask why this isn't in the Qur'an then you need to ask Allah why he didn't put everything in the Qur'an so we would have had many volumes and then many books of each volume.

"This guy believes in a divine Imamate that he doesn’t know why Allah swt didn’t bless the last prophet saw with!"

I do know. Allah did bless the last Prophet saw with Imamah. The last Prophet saw was blessed in such a manner that he was above all Messengers and Prophets. Simple.

"Yes He was a great leader/imam alhamdulillah and is remembered as such........not the DIVINE one you made up and falsely attribute to Him.😉"

So Abraham was already a Messenger and a Prophet and a leader of the nation so what was the point of making him an Imam of the people? You don't want to answer this.

muslim720

Re: Hundred Questions for Shias
« Reply #66 on: January 15, 2019, 12:15:47 PM »
Oh I most definitely believe them and in them but not everything that is attributed towards them or linked to them.

How do you know the authenticity of anything attributed to them?  Unless you have your own personal methodology, you have to accept the ruling of your scholars.  And I presented you narrations deemed authentic by your own scholars.

Quote
Qur'an is the scale, the measuring device. You keep yapping on but can't produce anything from the Qur'an concerning what I asked. Keep beating around the bush.

Zakah is in the Qur'an; the prohibition to personally own Fay is in the Qur'an.  The punishment you mocked as "crap" (since the story was in one of our Sahihain) is in the Qur'an.  Can you bring a verse that remotely alludes to your concept of Imamah? 

Time and again, we have met your Qur'an challenge and instead of shutting up, you are still running your mouth, you shameless imbecile.

Quote
Then you finally accepted that and now we have "prove Imamah (in shia sense)" in brackets.

I had to put it in brackets because dimwits like you need specific instructions.  To ask to prove Imamah from the Qur'an is to require proof for the Shi'i belief.

Quote
Imamah has been proven from the Qur'an and you've eventually accepted it. That's a breakthrough. So we can move forward from here.

You can see the parentheses in my latest comment but you failed to see the quotation marks around the word, proves.  For the sake of argument, I accepted your proof and then I systematically showed how your proof actually destroys Imamah, the same belief you were out to substantiate. 

Quote
Zakat is mentioned in the Qur'an and so is Imamah. The rest of the details lie with the Prophet. And the Prophet s.a.w has mentioned about Zakah and Imamah.

Imamah, in the Shi'i sense, is neither in the Qur'an nor in the Sunnah.  Even if another fourteen centuries go by, you cannot prove Imamah from the Qur'an or authentic Sunnah.  Yeah, if you go to the Kufans who championed your beliefs then its a different story.

Quote
Yes I'm familiar with that phrase. That's exactly what you're doing. You demand but unfortunately can't deliver when asked.

Go ahead, refute me, if you dare!  The Qur'an, for example, clearly forbids one individual, or a selected group, to have sole proprietary rights over Fay.  With or without the Prophetic tradition that Prophets (asws) do not leave inheritance, Fadak is an open-and-shut case.
"Our coward ran from those in authority" - Iceman (admitting the truth regarding his 12th Imam)

Abu Muhammad

Re: Hundred Questions for Shias
« Reply #67 on: January 15, 2019, 01:20:31 PM »
Would you like to be my guest and break down question 7 for me. Before I give another unsatisfactory answer or something along those lines.

Amazing. Again, no surprise at all that a number of brothers just stop talking to you since your poor comprehension hinders you from getting what they intended to convey to you.

Question 7. Does the Progeny include the 12 Imams only? If not, then how do you exclude the others from the Hadith Thaqalayn?

Which part of Question 7 above is so difficult for you to comprehend?

Mythbuster1

Re: Hundred Questions for Shias
« Reply #68 on: January 15, 2019, 03:13:47 PM »

The last prophet saw was above Abraham in status. So the Last prophet saw was a Messenger, Prophet and an Imam as well. What I mean is if you ask why this isn't in the Qur'an then you need to ask Allah why he didn't put everything in the Qur'an so we would have had many volumes and then many books of each volume.



It’s not about anything else it’s about one fundamental pillar of your sect “divine Imamate” a belief so important that you are not a shia without believing it otherwise you would be a Muslim like me and a billion and a half others, stop making excuses up this is where your divine Imamate formula goes to pot, you cannot explain if and when our prophet saw became a divine imam.

You assumptions are nothing but ideas and formulas that don’t even make sense look above you can’t even answer how Imamate is divine apart from using a verse that has no details or insinuations or any hint of a divine status until you start creating one with your shia mindset.


"This guy believes in a divine Imamate that he doesn’t know why Allah swt didn’t bless the last prophet saw with!"

I do know. Allah did bless the last Prophet saw with Imamah. The last Prophet saw was blessed in such a manner that he was above all Messengers and Prophets. Simple.

Hold on according to your formula a prophet has to go through tests and trials to get promotions to attain divine Imamate, so when was that then? When did our prophet saw finish prophethood and attain divine Imamate? Please do fill in the details.

So Allah swt blessed our prophet saw to be above all prophets that His divine imam status came automatically without declaration or hint from our prophet saw Himself?
Just as divine Imamate is automatically attached to the imams because they are also higher than all prophets apart from the last one.

Please do provide us some evidence of prophet saw proclaiming such an important status than prophethood, if you can.


So Abraham was already a Messenger and a Prophet and a leader of the nation so what was the point of making him an Imam of the people? You don't want to answer this.

I already answered plenty of times He Ibrahim as was a prophet spreading la ilaha illallah He stood up to a king/leader a kaafir as A prophet of Allah swt and not as a leader.

Your belief in Imamate being divine doesn’t make sense your explanations are Shiite inspired or lean on Shiite understanding without you having an open mind for example the word divine itself, there is NOTHING of it in the Quran but you adding it with your explanations and formulas leaning towards Shiite thought.

iceman

Re: Hundred Questions for Shias
« Reply #69 on: January 15, 2019, 07:53:29 PM »
It’s not about anything else it’s about one fundamental pillar of your sect “divine Imamate” a belief so important that you are not a shia without believing it otherwise you would be a Muslim like me and a billion and a half others, stop making excuses up this is where your divine Imamate formula goes to pot, you cannot explain if and when our prophet saw became a divine imam.

You assumptions are nothing but ideas and formulas that don’t even make sense look above you can’t even answer how Imamate is divine apart from using a verse that has no details or insinuations or any hint of a divine status until you start creating one with your shia mindset.

Hold on according to your formula a prophet has to go through tests and trials to get promotions to attain divine Imamate, so when was that then? When did our prophet saw finish prophethood and attain divine Imamate? Please do fill in the details.

So Allah swt blessed our prophet saw to be above all prophets that His divine imam status came automatically without declaration or hint from our prophet saw Himself?
Just as divine Imamate is automatically attached to the imams because they are also higher than all prophets apart from the last one.

Please do provide us some evidence of prophet saw proclaiming such an important status than prophethood, if you can.

I already answered plenty of times He Ibrahim as was a prophet spreading la ilaha illallah He stood up to a king/leader a kaafir as A prophet of Allah swt and not as a leader.

Your belief in Imamate being divine doesn’t make sense your explanations are Shiite inspired or lean on Shiite understanding without you having an open mind for example the word divine itself, there is NOTHING of it in the Quran but you adding it with your explanations and formulas leaning towards Shiite thought.

"you cannot explain if and when our prophet saw became a divine imam"

Only Allah explains and gives explanations. You running onto Prophet Muhammad, first agree about Abraham which you're having problems with. Then talk about Muhammad s.a.w.

"Hold on according to your formula a prophet has to go through tests and trials to get promotions to attain divine Imamate"

Did I say that? I don't think I said that. Who said that every Prophet had to go through a trial before being made an Imam? Allah knows best. He had raised and honoured some above others. My dear, you're missing the point. It's down to Allah's discretion.

Imamah is divine just as Messenger hood and Prophecy. You can't run from this. How long are you going to remain ignorant.

"I already answered plenty of times He Ibrahim as was a prophet spreading la ilaha illallah He stood up to a king/leader a kaafir as A prophet of Allah swt and not as a leader"

So you're saying that when Abraham was a prophet he wasn't a leader? Adam was a Messenger but Allah introduced him as a Caliph. Why?

When Allah said to the angels, “I want to make a caliph on earth,” the angels said, “Why? If you bring Your light down into the density of the earth, they will kill each other and abandon your holy way.” Allah said, “I am the Knowing and the Wise.” And He created Adam, the first caliph, the first vice-regent.

Why did Allah introduce Adam as a Caliph when he was a Messenger? Abraham and Adam are two unique examples, one of Imamah and the other of Caliphate. I ask you to study. Go do some homework first.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2019, 08:01:08 PM by iceman »

iceman

Re: Hundred Questions for Shias
« Reply #70 on: January 15, 2019, 08:06:32 PM »
Amazing. Again, no surprise at all that a number of brothers just stop talking to you since your poor comprehension hinders you from getting what they intended to convey to you.

Which part of Question 7 above is so difficult for you to comprehend?

"number of brothers just stop talking to you"

When you become answer less, cornered, face defeat then you stop talking. That's exactly what you do.

"Which part of Question 7 above is so difficult for you to comprehend?"

Rather than toying, taking the mick why don't you just get on with it. Which part do you think I didn't comprehend. Just come out with it man.

Mythbuster1

Re: Hundred Questions for Shias
« Reply #71 on: January 15, 2019, 09:23:29 PM »
"you cannot explain if and when our prophet saw became a divine imam"

Only Allah explains and gives explanations. You running onto Prophet Muhammad, first agree about Abraham which you're having problems with. Then talk about Muhammad s.a.w.

You have NOTHING you can’t even answer a simple question instead refer it to Allah swt that’s your best answer which means you haven’t a clue of the last prophet saw being a divine imam.

I told you the imam in that verse isn’t divine Imamate and you cannot as can be seen in many posts and threads by your many false methadolgies and formulas prove otherwise.

Did I say that? I don't think I said that. Who said that every Prophet had to go through a trial before being made an Imam? Allah knows best. He had raised and honoured some above others. My dear, you're missing the point. It's down to Allah's discretion.

Lol you made the statement divine Imamate is in the Quran you produced a verse you deem refers to divine Imamate that status which is higher than prophethood through a PROMOTION!! (Your words!!) now you say no promotion needed???

OMG I will post the great words of wisdom from our 4th rightly guided khalif Imam Ali ra
““A wise man first thinks and then speaks but a fool speaks first and then thinks.” – Ali ibn Abi Talib (RA)”


Abu Muhammad

Re: Hundred Questions for Shias
« Reply #72 on: January 15, 2019, 10:24:28 PM »
"number of brothers just stop talking to you"

When you become answer less, cornered, face defeat then you stop talking. That's exactly what you do.

What "answer less, cornered, face defeat" when almost every response posed by those brothers answered by you with "questions" or "thoughtless copy & paste". Do you want me to show you examples? Easy.

"Which part of Question 7 above is so difficult for you to comprehend?"

Rather than toying, taking the mick why don't you just get on with it. Which part do you think I didn't comprehend. Just come out with it man.

Amazing. And I wonder how you comprehend any other questions and answered them spot on.

Read Question 7 below again:

Quote
Question 7. Does the Progeny include the 12 Imams only? If not, then how do you exclude the others from the Hadith Thaqalayn?

It basically asked you this:
There were hundreds if not thousands of progeny or descendents of Prophets (saw) through Al-Hasan and Al-Hussain. Why do Twelvers only limit them to 12 of those progeny and exclude the others from hadith Thaqalayn.

And read again how you answered it:


Answer 7. Yes we do believe that the 12 Imams are from the progeny of the Prophet s.a.w.

1. `Ali Ibn Abi Talib quoted the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) as saying: “Al-Mahdi is one of us, the clan of the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him). Allah will reform him in one night.”
(Reported by Imam Ahmad and Ibn Maqah).

The world will not come to pass until a man from among my family, whose name will be my name, rules over the Arabs.
(Tirmidhi Sahih, Vol. 9, P. 74; Abu Dawud, Sahih, Vol. 5, P. 207;
also narrated by Ali b. Abi Talib, Abu Sa'id, Umm Salma, Abu Hurayra)

The Prophet(SAW) said:

Allah will bring out from concealment al-Mahdi from my family and just before the day of Judgment; even if only one day were to remain in the life of the world, and he will spread on this earth justice and equity and will eradicate tyranny and oppression.
(Musnad Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, Vol. 1, P. 99)

Hadhrat Ali(RA) narrates that Rasulullah(SAW) said:

Even if only a day remains for Qiyamah to come, yet Allah will surely send a man from my family who will fill this world with such justice and fairness, just as it initially was filled with oppression.
(Abu Dawood)

Ali b. Abi Talib(RA) has related a tradition from the Prophet(SAW) who informed him:

The promised Mahdi will be among my family. God will make the provisions for his emergence within a single night.
(Ibn Majah, Sahih, Vol. 2, P. 519)

Hazrat Umme Salmah(RA), Prophet's wife, narrates that she heard the Prophet(SAW) say:

The promised Mahdi will be among my progeny, among the descendants of Fatima.
(Abu Dawud, Sahih, Vol. 2, P. 207; Ibn Majah, Sahih, Vol. 2, P. 519)

Rasulullah(SAW) announced:

The Mahdi will be of my family, of the descendants of Fatima (the Prophet's daughter). (Sunan Ibn Majah, Vol. 2, Tradition No. 4086)

The Prophet(SAW) taught:

Al-Mahdi is one of us, the members of the household (Ahlul-Bayt).
(Sunan Ibn Majah, Vol. 2, Tradition No. 4085)

Abu Sa'id al-Khudari(RA) narrated that the Prophet(SAW) said:

Our Mahdi will have a broad forehead and a pointed (prominent) nose. He will fill the earth with justice as it is filled with injustice and tyranny. He will rule for seven years.
(Abu Dawud, Sahih, Vol. 2, p. 208; Fusul al-muhimma, p. 275)

Hadhrat Abu Saeed Khudri(RA) relates that Rasulullah(SAW) said:

Al Mahdi will be from my progeny. His forehead will be broad and his nose will be high. He will fill the world with justice and fairness at a time when the world will be filled with oppression. He will rule for seven years.

Laughable right? As I said before, you just made Twelvers look like fools with that kind of answer.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2019, 10:27:53 PM by Abu Muhammad »

iceman

Re: Hundred Questions for Shias
« Reply #73 on: January 16, 2019, 05:45:42 AM »
What "answer less, cornered, face defeat" when almost every response posed by those brothers answered by you with "questions" or "thoughtless copy & paste". Do you want me to show you examples? Easy.

Amazing. And I wonder how you comprehend any other questions and answered them spot on.

Read Question 7 below again:

It basically asked you this:
There were hundreds if not thousands of progeny or descendents of Prophets (saw) through Al-Hasan and Al-Hussain. Why do Twelvers only limit them to 12 of those progeny and exclude the others from hadith Thaqalayn.

And read again how you answered it:

Laughable right? As I said before, you just made Twelvers look like fools with that kind of answer.

"What "answer less, cornered, face defeat" when almost every response posed by those brothers answered by you with "questions" or "thoughtless copy & paste". Do you want me to show you examples? Easy"

Yes please, but on what basis. One example out of 20? And what about the others. Will you give the same examples for them. Of course not. They're your brothers. But still, go ahead. Please proceed. And I assure you I will correct you and silence you.

"Amazing. And I wonder how you comprehend any other questions and answered them spot on"

Like I said, if you want to mention something or point something out then go ahead. Don't toy with it. Don't play about with it.

"It basically asked you this:
There were hundreds if not thousands of progeny or descendents of Prophets (saw) through Al-Hasan and Al-Hussain. Why do Twelvers only limit them to 12 of those progeny and exclude the others from hadith Thaqalayn"

Thank you very much. Now that wasn't difficult, was it. You could have come out with this in the first place.

Are others excluded from Hadith e Thaqalayn? How are they excluded or how do we exclude them? Could you give me an example.

"Laughable right? As I said before, you just made Twelvers look like fools with that kind of answer"

I deal with such crappy comments all the time. Just get on with it. 😊

iceman

Re: Hundred Questions for Shias
« Reply #74 on: January 16, 2019, 10:26:57 AM »
How do you know the authenticity of anything attributed to them?  Unless you have your own personal methodology, you have to accept the ruling of your scholars.  And I presented you narrations deemed authentic by your own scholars.

Zakah is in the Qur'an; the prohibition to personally own Fay is in the Qur'an.  The punishment you mocked as "crap" (since the story was in one of our Sahihain) is in the Qur'an.  Can you bring a verse that remotely alludes to your concept of Imamah? 

Time and again, we have met your Qur'an challenge and instead of shutting up, you are still running your mouth, you shameless imbecile.

I had to put it in brackets because dimwits like you need specific instructions.  To ask to prove Imamah from the Qur'an is to require proof for the Shi'i belief.

You can see the parentheses in my latest comment but you failed to see the quotation marks around the word, proves.  For the sake of argument, I accepted your proof and then I systematically showed how your proof actually destroys Imamah, the same belief you were out to substantiate. 

Imamah, in the Shi'i sense, is neither in the Qur'an nor in the Sunnah.  Even if another fourteen centuries go by, you cannot prove Imamah from the Qur'an or authentic Sunnah.  Yeah, if you go to the Kufans who championed your beliefs then its a different story.

Go ahead, refute me, if you dare!  The Qur'an, for example, clearly forbids one individual, or a selected group, to have sole proprietary rights over Fay.  With or without the Prophetic tradition that Prophets (asws) do not leave inheritance, Fadak is an open-and-shut case.

"How do you know the authenticity of anything attributed to them?  Unless you have your own personal methodology, you have to accept the ruling of your scholars.  And I presented you narrations deemed authentic by your own scholars"

The Qur'an is above all. It is the scale, the measuring device. Are you saying it is absolutely necessary for me to accept anything and everything that my scholars say, or whatever is in the four books?

"Zakah is in the Qur'an; the prohibition to personally own Fay is in the Qur'an.  The punishment you mocked as "crap" (since the story was in one of our Sahihain) is in the Qur'an.  Can you bring a verse that remotely alludes to your concept of Imamah?"

Yes Zakah is in the Qur'an but not the punishment you mentioned concerning Zakah. Also it doesn't say in the Qur'an that Fatima's right to inheritance was forfitted or ceased.

iceman

Re: Hundred Questions for Shias
« Reply #75 on: January 16, 2019, 11:13:41 AM »
"Time and again, we have met your Qur'an challenge and instead of shutting up, you are still running your mouth, you shameless imbecile"

You haven't met it at all. You're not where near it. You keep beating around the bush over it. Prove to me from the Qur'an the punishment of not paying Zakah, the government having the right to take Zakah off people and the families and relations of Messengers and Prophets have no right to inheritance what so ever.

"I had to put it in brackets because dimwits like you need specific instructions"

No, your exact words were "prove Imamah from the Qur'an' those were your exact words. The bracket statement came in later. I've already proven this. Will forward the evidence again.

"To ask to prove Imamah from the Qur'an is to require proof for the Shi'i belief"

Do you believe everything important and necessary has to be in the Qur'an or the Holy scriptures? Can you prove from the Bible that Jesus wasn't killed and neither was he crucified? The Bible is book of Allah, did Allah mention in the Bible that Jesus won't be killed or crucified. What you'll witness is just a drama, a fiction. It won't be reality. Can you prove this from the Bible.

"You can see the parentheses in my latest comment but you failed to see the quotation marks around the word, proves.  For the sake of argument, I accepted your proof and then I systematically showed how your proof actually destroys Imamah, the same belief you were out to substantiate"

You wanted proof of Imamah from the Qur'an and I gave it to you and you accepted it because there was no denying it. As far as Shia Imamah is concerned (the twelvers) that is proved through Muhammad s.a.w. but those who got into authority made ammendments suiting their desire and needs. That's how history has turned out.

Mythbuster1

Re: Hundred Questions for Shias
« Reply #76 on: January 16, 2019, 11:27:34 AM »

You wanted proof of Imamah from the Qur'an and I gave it to you and you accepted it because there was no denying it. As far as Shia Imamah is concerned (the twelvers) that is proved through Muhammad s.a.w. but those who got into authority made ammendments suiting their desire and needs. That's how history has turned out.

Lol adding divine to words of imams in Quran is your BEST proof.😂😂😂😂😊

I’ve many posts where you ADD divine Imamate to verse of Ibrahim as according to you which was a promotion to a higher status.......YOUR ADDITION!

You haven’t gave us nothing but your own interpretations and also lying as if we accepted that crap divine Imamate.
The lying part was expected from a Shiite nothing new here.😉

In other words saqifa was real and no divine Imamate was implemented in this world ever, your dreams of divine supermen was destroyed by the 4th khaliph who ruled as like the 3 others before him, without any divine powers.👍

Abu Muhammad

Re: Hundred Questions for Shias
« Reply #77 on: January 16, 2019, 12:24:15 PM »
Thank you very much. Now that wasn't difficult, was it. You could have come out with this in the first place.

Like I said, if you want to mention something or point something out then go ahead. Don't toy with it. Don't play about with it.

My goodness. Your POOR COMPREHENSION is the source of all this. Why should you blame me of "playing" or "toying". It is not my job to explain to you what the question means just because of your terrible comprehension of a straight forward question.

Sheeshh...

Abu Muhammad

Re: Hundred Questions for Shias
« Reply #78 on: January 16, 2019, 12:39:21 PM »
Coming back to Question no. 7:

"It basically asked you this:
There were hundreds if not thousands of progeny or descendents of Prophets (saw) through Al-Hasan and Al-Hussain. Why do Twelvers only limit them to 12 of those progeny and exclude the others from hadith Thaqalayn"

Thank you very much. Now that wasn't difficult, was it. You could have come out with this in the first place.
That wasn't difficult? Let's see your answer:
Are others excluded from Hadith e Thaqalayn? How are they excluded or how do we exclude them? Could you give me an example.
And that's is how you made the brothers "answerless, cornered and face defeat". LOL...

And as I said earlier as below, there you go the example. No need for me to go and find in other posts of yours.
What "answer less, cornered, face defeat" when almost every response posed by those brothers answered by you with "questions" or "thoughtless copy & paste". Do you want me to show you examples? Easy.

muslim720

Re: Hundred Questions for Shias
« Reply #79 on: January 17, 2019, 12:20:37 PM »
The Qur'an is above all. It is the scale, the measuring device. Are you saying it is absolutely necessary for me to accept anything and everything that my scholars say, or whatever is in the four books?

No but it is absolutely incumbent upon you to accept what is "authentically" narrated from your "infallible" Imams (ra).  Otherwise, you are an apostate. 

By the way, it sounds very sweet to say that Qur'an is the scale and the measuring device.  It is sad, however, to then not be able to substantiate your usool-e-deen (Imamah) from the Qur'an.

Quote
Yes Zakah is in the Qur'an but not the punishment you mentioned concerning Zakah.

Can we agree, as per Surah Al-Baqarah, disbelief in a portion of the book is to actually disbelieve?

Quote
Also it doesn't say in the Qur'an that Fatima's right to inheritance was forfitted or ceased.

There was no inheritance, hence, the Qur'an does not have to spell it.  The Qur'an explicitly states that Fay cannot owned by an individual or a group of individuals, therefore, there is no room to discuss inheritance unless you suffer from some mental disease or were raised upon blind hatred.

Quote
Prove to me from the Qur'an the punishment of not paying Zakah, the government having the right to take Zakah off people and the families and relations of Messengers and Prophets have no right to inheritance what so ever.

I have done better and you know it!  From the "infallible" Imams (ra) who are hujjah upon you, I proved that the punishment meted out in the case of Malik was justified and with one verse of the Qur'an, I completely shut down the entire discussion on Fadak, whether you see it as Fatima's (ra) inheritance or a gift given to her.  Your offspring cannot inherit what you do not own; similarly, you cannot gift someone something you do not own.

I have no problem with you denying the Qur'an and your own "infallible" Imams (ra); in fact, I expected nothing better.  However, do not insult our intelligence by claiming that you follow the two.

Quote
No, your exact words were "prove Imamah from the Qur'an' those were your exact words. The bracket statement came in later. I've already proven this. Will forward the evidence again.

You are a liar!  I have always accepted your "proofs" for the sake of argument only to refute you using your own "proof".  That pattern is consistent from my side.

Quote
Can you prove from the Bible that Jesus wasn't killed and neither was he crucified? The Bible is book of Allah, did Allah mention in the Bible that Jesus won't be killed or crucified. What you'll witness is just a drama, a fiction. It won't be reality. Can you prove this from the Bible.

For the highlighted part, I must say that calling you a dimwit is an insult to dimwits.  You never cease to amaze me.  I mean, how low can you go?

Quote
You wanted proof of Imamah from the Qur'an and I gave it to you and you accepted it because there was no denying it

That "Imamah" actually poses more problem for the Imamah you claim to follow.  I have given you the reasons.  Go read them again and try to refute those points.
"Our coward ran from those in authority" - Iceman (admitting the truth regarding his 12th Imam)

 

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