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Shia Scholar's Interesting Views on the Occultation of His Last Imam

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Kalaam

I was reading the Shia book 'Hayat ul Quloob' when I came across this text which amused me alot. Here it is:

Quote
The writer says: This tradition shows that people get benefits and graces even from a hidden Imam. If there is a common problem of doubt among the people he guides them in such a manner that they do not recognize him. Many a time it so happens that the hiding of Imam proves to be a mercy or grace of Allah for a group because Allah knows that if the Imam is apparent these people will not believe and most of the people are like that because due to the appearance of the Imam they will be required to carry out duties like jihad or fighting with the enemies of religion while the eyes and hearts of many are almost sightless and hence they will not be able to bear the radiance and dazzle and so also his secrets. For example, bats cannot bear the brightness of the sun. Also there are some rulers and arrogant people who believe in the Imam when he is in concealment and they desire his appearance and when the Hazrat appears and makes a king and a beggar equal in the eyes of justice they cannot bear it and become apostates. For example, when Amirul Momineen had made the hypocrites equal to a slave (while distributing bounty) who was freed only a day before it became the cause of their apostasy, whereby both their religion and faith were harmed. And it is sufficient argument of the hiding of Imam being a mercy for a person that believing in the Imam’s existence gives limitless reward. Sayyid Murtuza (r.a.) has, in Shafi and Risala Ghaibat, given replies to this objection, viz hiding of Imam does not give any benefit to the creations. First: When the people always believe that the Imam can appear at any moment, this possibility prevents them from many evil deeds. Thus the difference between non-existence of Imam and the hiding of Imam is clear.
Second: Though Allah has completed the mercy, which was incumbent for Him but the enemies of the Imam, are preventing the creation from being benefited by the Imam. For example when the Holy Prophet (S) was in Mecca the Quraysh used to prevent people from being benefited by him, especially in those years when the Holy Prophet (S) along with all of his relatives belonging to Bani Hashim, was held up in the ‘Shobe Abi Talib’ and the unbelieving Quraysh were not allowing anyone to meet the Holy Prophet (S). Similarly when the Holy Prophet (S) was hiding in a cave till he arrived in Medina and these periods of his non-appearance never came in the way of deriving benefits from his holy being.
Third: It is possible that the reasons of Imam’s hiding may be related to friends, as Allah knows that if the Imam appears they will not believe and it will make them apostates.
Fourth: It is not essential that the benefit of the appearance of the Imam must be public and for all. It is also possible that one group sees the Imam and gets benefits from him, as has been reported that there is a city in which the progeny of the Hazrat lives. The Hazrat does visit that city though those people do not see the Hazrat but they do obtain their requirements from him either from behind curtain or in any other way.
After mentioning some reasons Sayyid Murtuza (a.r.) has prepared a preamble. He writes that the benefit of the Ummah is not made complete by the Imam, but that, from the direction of Allah, with certain things to benefit by any of His choice and that some things should be obtained from the Imam and some aught to be from us. The things which must be from Allah are that He may create the Imam and appoint him with all requisite matters, like knowledge and the conditions of Imamate and that He may issue texts regarding his Imamate and make it obligatory for him to rise for the sake of the affairs of the Ummah with them. And the things, which are from the side of the Imam, are that he accept his responsibility and make it obligatory for him to rise for the sake of the Ummah. And the affairs, which pertain to the Ummah are that they may make the Imam in charge of their affairs and remove the hindrances from his path and obey him and act according to the plans made by him. In short, the things from Allah in this connection only are main and that it is most important that they may be effective first of all. Thereafter the affairs pertaining to the Imam and Ummah are the auxiliaries of this main. Therefore until what is pertaining to Allah and the Imam does not become effective the Ummah is not bound in any way. Thereafter when the things are made clear by Allah and the Imam, if any hindrance comes up from the Ummah and if it makes it necessary for the disappearance of the Imam, then it does no harm to the Grace of Allah. In such a time if the Ummah does not carry out what it should concerning Allah and the Imam then it will be considered at fault. Its details will, Insha Allah, be given in the chapter about the occultation of the Imam.

https://www.al-islam.org/hayat-al-qulub-vol3-allamah-muhammad-baqir-al-majlisi/part-1-essentiality-imam-and-there-not-being

Any takers?
« Last Edit: January 19, 2019, 10:43:33 PM by Kalaam »

Hani

Re: Shia Scholar's Interesting Views on the Occultation of His Last Imam
« Reply #1 on: January 20, 2019, 02:33:47 AM »
Majlisi is insane
عَلامَةُ أَهْلِ الْبِدَعِ الْوَقِيعَةُ فِي أَهْلِ الأَثَرِ. وَعَلامَةُ الْجَهْمِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُشَبِّهَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الْقَدَرِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُجَبِّرَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الزَّنَادِقَةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ الأَثَرِ حَشْوِيَّةً

Religion = simple & clear

iceman

Re: Shia Scholar's Interesting Views on the Occultation of His Last Imam
« Reply #2 on: January 20, 2019, 09:43:18 PM »
I was reading the Shia book 'Hayat ul Quloob' when I came across this text which amused me alot. Here it is:

Any takers?

Yeh sure. What seems to be the problem here?

Kalaam

Re: Shia Scholar's Interesting Views on the Occultation of His Last Imam
« Reply #3 on: January 20, 2019, 10:57:58 PM »
The problem is that logically these statements don't make any sense. And portrays the concept of Imamate as a drama on stage. For the sake of this drama, we learn from the Shias that Hadhrat Fatima raised the issue of Fadak, while she had no major interest in it, but only to show the 'kufr' (nauzu billah) of the closest companion of the Prophet (s). But Majlisi here says that the Imam is in occultation and God is okay with it, because if he comes out of occultation and people reject him, then God knows that people will become kafir. My dear, when God didn't bother about the closest companion of the prophet (S) committing kufr and dying upon a religion other than Islam, then why would he care when other people become kafir because of rejecting the twelfth Imam? Where is your brain busy?

Mythbuster1

Re: Shia Scholar's Interesting Views on the Occultation of His Last Imam
« Reply #4 on: January 20, 2019, 11:04:45 PM »
The problem is that logically these statements don't make any sense. And portrays the concept of Imamate as a drama on stage. For the sake of this drama, we learn from the Shias that Hadhrat Fatima raised the issue of Fadak, while she had no major interest in it, but only to show the 'kufr' (nauzu billah) of the closest companion of the Prophet (s). But Majlisi here says that the Imam is in occultation and God is okay with it, because if he comes out of occultation and people reject him, then God knows that people will become kafir. My dear, when God didn't bother about the closest companion of the prophet (S) committing kufr and dying upon a religion other than Islam, then why would he care when other people become kafir because of rejecting the twelfth Imam? Where is your brain busy?

Drama on stage😂👍

He is funny he will make false accusations as if he knows you inside out and then WATCH the counter questions he comes out with.😂

Am gonna lay back put my shades on pop open a bag of popcorn.😎


iceman

Re: Shia Scholar's Interesting Views on the Occultation of His Last Imam
« Reply #5 on: January 20, 2019, 11:26:59 PM »
The problem is that logically these statements don't make any sense. And portrays the concept of Imamate as a drama on stage. For the sake of this drama, we learn from the Shias that Hadhrat Fatima raised the issue of Fadak, while she had no major interest in it, but only to show the 'kufr' (nauzu billah) of the closest companion of the Prophet (s). But Majlisi here says that the Imam is in occultation and God is okay with it, because if he comes out of occultation and people reject him, then God knows that people will become kafir. My dear, when God didn't bother about the closest companion of the prophet (S) committing kufr and dying upon a religion other than Islam, then why would he care when other people become kafir because of rejecting the twelfth Imam? Where is your brain busy?

Steady on there. One step at a time.

"we learn from the Shias that Hadhrat Fatima raised the issue of Fadak, while she had no major interest in it, but only to show the 'kufr' (nauzu billah) of the closest companion of the Prophet"

You don't learn from the Shias, you just pick up bits and pieces from here and there and try to establish that this is what the Shias believe in and what the Shia faith is all about.

You're just like the western media or anti Muslims/Islam who go around picking up bits and pieces and then try to establish and show that this is what Islam and the Muslims are all about.

"Fatima raised the issue of Fadak, while she had no major interest in it"

I don't know where you got this from or where on earth you get your information from. Fatima didn't raise the issue of Fadak but she along with all the Prophet's s.a.w wives except Aisha and relations claimed for inheritance according to Islamic law based on Qur'anic verses.

This was rejected based on a hadith Abu Bakr produced which not only has no reference or backing in the Qur'an but actually contradicts it. Unless you can tell me otherwise. Have a peek in your books and see what is actually in there.

"while she had no major interest in it"

She had no major interest in it meaning she will not use her influence and status to turn towards violence and threatening behaviour like Aisha, Talah and Muawiya did. And she stuck to that.

Be it Abu Bakr, Muawiya, Talah, Aisha or anyone else, be it in government or opposition people used violence and threatening behaviour or heavy handed tactics and policy to have their demands met.

"Majlisi here says that the Imam is in occultation and God is okay with it, because if he comes out of occultation and people reject him, then God knows that people will become kafir"

My dear first of all this might be the opinion of Majlisi or he might be making a point based on an argument but it might not be his opinion. But even if it is his opinion what's it got to do with the rest of us. Can you use that and label it as the opinion of every single Shia.

Can we say that every single scholar be it Shia or Sunni and author/writer of which ever book, what ever is in those books most certainly is the opinion of that scholar and the entire sect of which that scholar belongs to.

For heavens sake shake off what ever you're stuck with and start thinking with an open mind and with a bit of sense. Be honest with yourself.


Mythbuster1

Re: Shia Scholar's Interesting Views on the Occultation of His Last Imam
« Reply #6 on: January 20, 2019, 11:34:01 PM »
😎🍿👍

iceman

Re: Shia Scholar's Interesting Views on the Occultation of His Last Imam
« Reply #7 on: January 20, 2019, 11:46:48 PM »
😎🍿👍

Thank you very much. Thank you. I knew this would silence you along with many others. 😆 Still, any silly comments that you'd like to make 😊

Kalaam

Re: Shia Scholar's Interesting Views on the Occultation of His Last Imam
« Reply #8 on: January 21, 2019, 10:17:02 PM »
Actually Iceman, you need to re read your books and get an understanding of how the books work. What I said was based on the statements of Shia scholars, e.g. Ali Shariati (a renowned Shia scholar of Iran) said in his book "Fatima is Fatima"

Quote
Fadak is a small grazing area and even if it had been larger, it would have still been too small for Fatima to get involved with. But Fadak has taken on the importance of showing the usurpation and force of the new regime. By keeping the problem of Fadak alive, she tries to condemn the regime. She proves what rights they deny in order to serve their own purposes. They do not refrain from devia­ting from a saying of the Prophet or its meaning. She wants the thoughts of people to know to what extent these people who call themselves `followers of the custom of the Prophet' and who actually establish their own Ca­liphate on this basis, oppress the family of the Prophet. They cut off the right which each and every Moslem child has to receive and every father has the right to give.

They say the Prophet has children, but leaves no legacy. Fadak becomes a political issue for Fatima and a means of rebellion. Fatima's insistence is because of this, not because of its economic value as her conscious enemies and unconscious friends announce.
https://www.al-islam.org/fatima-is-fatima-dr-ali-shariati/her-final-struggle

You made a claim that this might not be the actual opinion of Majlisi when I quoted him. Actually you got baffled by reading too many narrations in books. When a narration is mentioned, I can say well he might believe it or not. But what I have presented is his opinion. If you fail to realize this, then it is pointless talking to you. Don't refute an argument just because you have to defend yourself. Provide a solid reason. What I see in this forum is that you are refuting arguments just for defending your sect. With your methodology, no sound discussion is possible. And please, don't write essays. Comments need to be brief and precise.

iceman

Re: Shia Scholar's Interesting Views on the Occultation of His Last Imam
« Reply #9 on: January 21, 2019, 10:37:43 PM »
Actually Iceman, you need to re read your books and get an understanding of how the books work. What I said was based on the statements of Shia scholars, e.g. Ali Shariati (a renowned Shia scholar of Iran) said in his book "Fatima is Fatima"

You made a claim that this might not be the actual opinion of Majlisi when I quoted him. Actually you got baffled by reading too many narrations in books. When a narration is mentioned, I can say well he might believe it or not. But what I have presented is his opinion. If you fail to realize this, then it is pointless talking to you. Don't refute an argument just because you have to defend yourself. Provide a solid reason. What I see in this forum is that you are refuting arguments just for defending your sect. With your methodology, no sound discussion is possible. And please, don't write essays. Comments need to be brief and precise.

Ok, I'll keep it brief for you, that's the opinion of Majlisi. What the hell's that got to do with the rest of us at a global level. Please get your head and facts sorted out.

"You made a claim that this might not be the actual opinion of Majlisi"

Wrong again. I mentioned the possibilities. Please read properly before responding.

"Don't refute an argument just because you have to defend yourself"

This is exactly what all your arguments are based on. Defending the sayings, doings, decisions and actions of certain individuals.

"What I see in this forum is that you are refuting arguments just for defending your sect"

Well if that's the case then either you are bias or acting blind.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2019, 10:43:06 PM by iceman »

 

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