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SHIA TAWHEED IS THE PUREST!!

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iceman

Re: SHIA TAWHEED IS THE PUREST!!
« Reply #20 on: December 09, 2018, 09:49:47 PM »
ladies and gentlemen, i give you.................*Drumrolls*.................Shia Tawheed in action. Enjoy! May Allah protect the layman muslim from this fitnah. May Allah guide our Shia brothers and sisters in humanity towards REAL tawheed. May Allah give Anti-Majos and TSD reward for their hard work and give them ease so they can expand their operations and spread the truth further. Ameeeen!





https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://m.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3Dk_VyAqzVfQw&ved=2ahUKEwiFjviPs5PfAhWDmLQKHVObC0gQwqsBMAZ6BAgLEAg&usg=AOvVaw10y9DmVjJr4KVpb0-G-glj

iceman

Re: SHIA TAWHEED IS THE PUREST!!
« Reply #21 on: December 09, 2018, 09:58:42 PM »
Surah Al-Nisaa, verse 64.

"And We did not send any messenger except to be obeyed by permission of Allah . And if, when they wronged themselves, they had come to you, [O Muhammad], and asked forgiveness of Allah and the Messenger had asked forgiveness for them, they would have found Allah Accepting of repentance and Merciful.

Note this part of the vetse;

"And if, when they wronged themselves, they had come to you, [O Muhammad]"

They had come to you? Shouldn't they be calling upon Allah?

Volume 2, Book 17, Number 123 :
Narrated by Anas

Whenever drought threatened them, 'Umar bin Al-Khattab, used to ask Al-Abbas bin 'Abdul Muttalib to invoke Allah for rain. He used to say, "O Allah! We used to ask our Prophet to invoke You for rain, and You would bless us with rain, and now we ask his uncle to invoke You for rain. O Allah ! Bless us with rain.".And so it would rain.

Note this bit;

"Umar bin Al-Khattab, used to ask Al-Abbas bin 'Abdul Muttalib to invoke Allah for rain"

Why ask Abbas bin Abdul Muttalib? Why not call upon Allah directly?

It should be clear by now that certain people have a misunderstanding. And they need to clear it.
« Last Edit: December 09, 2018, 10:09:33 PM by iceman »

iceman

Re: SHIA TAWHEED IS THE PUREST!!
« Reply #22 on: December 09, 2018, 10:20:55 PM »
In a clip that spans over 12 minutes, you only had an issue with the beginning?  The kufr spewed in it did not bother you a bit?  Or those who uploaded it somehow managed to put words in the mouths of those filthy khabeeths who, if under Imam Ali (ra), would have been burned at the stake?

You speak about Kufr in the video. Take a look at this;

Volume 2, Book 17, Number 122 :
Narrated by 'Abdullah bin Dinar

My father said, "I heard Ibn 'Umar reciting the poetic verses of Abu Talib: And a white (person) (i.e. the Prophet) who is requested to pray for rain and who takes care of the orphans and is the guardian of widows." Salim's father (Ibn 'Umar) said, "The following poetic verse occurred to my mind while I was looking at the face of the Prophet (p.b.u.h) while he was praying for rain. He did not get down till the rain water flowed profusely from every roof-g utter: And a white (person) who is requested to pray for rain and who takes care of the orphans and is the guardian of widows . . . And these were the words of Abu Talib."

Ibn 'Umar reciting the poetic verses of Abu Talib? What, Ibn Umar reciting poetic verses of a Kafir? Have I got it wrong? Can you shed some light on this?

muslim720

Re: SHIA TAWHEED IS THE PUREST!!
« Reply #23 on: December 10, 2018, 01:27:47 AM »
"Umar bin Al-Khattab, used to ask Al-Abbas bin 'Abdul Muttalib to invoke Allah for rain"

Why ask Abbas bin Abdul Muttalib? Why not call upon Allah directly?

If you have not watched the video and trying to make this hadith comparable to what is being said (on the video), I urge you to watch the video.  If you have watched the video and trying to equate it with this hadith then you are a piece of $hit, the kind when you flush still sticks to the bowl.

Umar (ra) would ask Abbas (ra) to pray for rain when Abbas (ra) was ALIVE.  And tawassul, even according to extreme Salafis, is acceptable when you ask a pious, living person - who is in your midst - to make du'a for you or for your need.

Quote
Ibn 'Umar reciting the poetic verses of Abu Talib? What, Ibn Umar reciting poetic verses of a Kafir? Have I got it wrong? Can you shed some light on this?

I can answer this on many levels but the simplest response would be that ibn Umar (ra) was not infallible.  However, it is good that you have declared Abu Talib kafir, lol!  Much like your change of stance on Muawiya and Banu Umayyah (in the other topic), you are now following the sound position regarding Abu Talib!
« Last Edit: December 10, 2018, 01:29:31 AM by muslim720 »
"Our coward ran from those in authority" - Iceman (admitting the truth regarding his 12th Imam)

Mythbuster1

Re: SHIA TAWHEED IS THE PUREST!!
« Reply #24 on: December 10, 2018, 11:30:10 AM »


I provided you with an absolute and clear verse on Imamah but you don't want to accept it. Your arrogance and your stubbornness come in the way. I don't need to crawl back anywhere or swallow anything 😊

LIAR I repeat you are a LIAR you produce verses with YOUR own commentary and use an example of a theory of promotions to add to the verse so it makes it look as if there is some divine Imamate in there but in reality you just keep hitting a wall and CANNOT answer on why others didn’t need promotions.
Dead theory from the get go hence you cannot answer it.

Here it is again.........the great knowledge what the imams taught you, your great knowledgeable ayatollahs taught you..........”Arrogant Stubborn” is your answer written in all your posts where you can no longer answer divinity imarmite.😜👍

And I ain’t even started on promotions......yet.😂

To be honest you did crawl from a crack from some dark place only to be  confronted by the light of sunnah and now it’s hard for you to swallow the TRUTH so you label the rest as just aroogant and stubborn.😂😂👍

Summary:
Iceman the great intellectual Shiite who cannot provide any clear verse or answer his own theory of promotions, is QUICK to insult if not understood, this is their teaching in shiism as iceman above is RELAYING to us for months.👍


iceman

Re: SHIA TAWHEED IS THE PUREST!!
« Reply #25 on: December 10, 2018, 01:17:33 PM »
If you have not watched the video and trying to make this hadith comparable to what is being said (on the video), I urge you to watch the video.  If you have watched the video and trying to equate it with this hadith then you are a piece of $hit, the kind when you flush still sticks to the bowl.

Umar (ra) would ask Abbas (ra) to pray for rain when Abbas (ra) was ALIVE.  And tawassul, even according to extreme Salafis, is acceptable when you ask a pious, living person - who is in your midst - to make du'a for you or for your need.

I can answer this on many levels but the simplest response would be that ibn Umar (ra) was not infallible.  However, it is good that you have declared Abu Talib kafir, lol!  Much like your change of stance on Muawiya and Banu Umayyah (in the other topic), you are now following the sound position regarding Abu Talib!

You've absolutely disregarded all the other posts since you knew that you couldn't touch them. Anyways, I've watched the video, now tell me exactly what is your problem? What's exactly killing you in that video where you can't get a grip on yourself?

"then you are a piece of $hit, the kind when you flush still sticks to the bowl"

You don't have to keep telling us about yourself with such a language. We know the grudge that you've been brought up with and the filth that you've been raised by.

"Umar (ra) would ask Abbas (ra) to pray for rain when Abbas (ra) was "ALIVE"

Umar would ask Abbas to pray......but why? Was he not sure about himself or he didn't have the credibility? Or was it something else?

"when Abbas (ra) was "ALIVE"

And Ali is alive as well. And he is receiving rizq from Allah just as us.So what seems to be your problem then? You've got yourself stuck badly boy.

"And tawassul, even according to extreme Salafis, is acceptable when you ask a pious, living person - who is in your midst - to make du'a for you or for your need"

So what seems to be the problem then?

iceman

Re: SHIA TAWHEED IS THE PUREST!!
« Reply #26 on: December 10, 2018, 02:32:30 PM »
LIAR I repeat you are a LIAR you produce verses with YOUR own commentary and use an example of a theory of promotions to add to the verse so it makes it look as if there is some divine Imamate in there but in reality you just keep hitting a wall and CANNOT answer on why others didn’t need promotions.
Dead theory from the get go hence you cannot answer it.

Here it is again.........the great knowledge what the imams taught you, your great knowledgeable ayatollahs taught you..........”Arrogant Stubborn” is your answer written in all your posts where you can no longer answer divinity imarmite.😜👍

And I ain’t even started on promotions......yet.😂

To be honest you did crawl from a crack from some dark place only to be  confronted by the light of sunnah and now it’s hard for you to swallow the TRUTH so you label the rest as just aroogant and stubborn.😂😂👍

Summary:
Iceman the great intellectual Shiite who cannot provide any clear verse or answer his own theory of promotions, is QUICK to insult if not understood, this is their teaching in shiism as iceman above is RELAYING to us for months.👍

I'm not a liar, I don't add anything to any verse and I do not produce verses with my own commentary.

You don't believe in divine Imamate and I proved divine Imamate right from the Qur'an. You instead of answering ran away to other questions. You asked and I answered. I asked and you ran forward. Just to jog your memory here is your question agsin;

You: "can you prove Imamate from the Qur'an?"

Me: "yes I can and here is the evidence"

And [mention, O Muhammad], when Abraham was tried by his Lord with commands and he fulfilled them. [ Allah ] said, "Indeed, I will make you an Imam for the people." [Abraham] said, "And of my descendants?" [ Allah ] said, "My covenant does not include the wrongdoers."

Now my question to you was,

Was Abraham promoted, demoted or given a title of a similar nature and grade after he was tried by his Lord?

You STILL ON THE RUN AND STILL WILL BE.
« Last Edit: December 10, 2018, 02:37:15 PM by iceman »

Mythbuster1

Re: SHIA TAWHEED IS THE PUREST!!
« Reply #27 on: December 10, 2018, 03:02:33 PM »
I'm not a liar, I don't add anything to any verse and I do not produce verses with my own commentary.

You don't believe in divine Imamate and I proved divine Imamate right from the Qur'an. You instead of answering ran away to other questions. You asked and I answered. I asked and you ran forward. Just to jog your memory here is your question agsin;

You: "can you prove Imamate from the Qur'an?"

Me: "yes I can and here is the evidence"

And [mention, O Muhammad], when Abraham was tried by his Lord with commands and he fulfilled them. [ Allah ] said, "Indeed, I will make you an Imam for the people." [Abraham] said, "And of my descendants?" [ Allah ] said, "My covenant does not include the wrongdoers."

Now my question to you was,

Was Abraham promoted, demoted or given a title of a similar nature and grade after he was tried by his Lord?

You STILL ON THE RUN AND STILL WILL BE.

I’ve answered and it twisted you up that you never replied again lol

Here it is again........Ibrahim as was neither promoted or attained any similar grade after prophethood, to us prophethood is the top divine status.

Now can you explain why and how the imams bypassed nabuwwah and the last prophet saw NEVER mentioned such a grade or achieve such a station after His own nabuwwah.

It’s been months and you haven’t moved past this.......yet!!!!

RUN??? Oh come on the whole world knows who RAN and is still RUNNING out of fear of Sunnis.

😉

muslim720

Re: SHIA TAWHEED IS THE PUREST!!
« Reply #28 on: December 10, 2018, 03:08:17 PM »
You've absolutely disregarded all the other posts since you knew that you couldn't touch them. Anyways, I've watched the video, now tell me exactly what is your problem? What's exactly killing you in that video where you can't get a grip on yourself?

Wait a minute, are you saying that there was nothing wrong with anything said in those videos (by those Shia zakirs)?

Quote
You don't have to keep telling us about yourself with such a language. We know the grudge that you've been brought up with and the filth that you've been raised by.

It is clear who has been raised with filth since you do not see anything wrong with that video.

Quote
Umar would ask Abbas to pray......but why? Was he not sure about himself or he didn't have the credibility? Or was it something else?

Don't you ask your parents to pray for you during, lets say, finals week?  Are you not sure about yourself or do you not have the credibility?  Or is it something else?

It is quite obvious that you do not understand basic Islam or you deliberately choose to be an idiot.

Quote
And Ali is alive as well. And he is receiving rizq from Allah just as us.So what seems to be your problem then? You've got yourself stuck badly boy.

I knew what your lame comeback would be which is why I clearly stated, "And tawassul, even according to extreme Salafis, is acceptable when you ask a pious, living person - who is in your midst - to make du'a for you or for your need".

Quote
So what seems to be the problem then?

Can someone ban this guy and put him out of his misery?  That way he can earn some points on his victim card.
"Our coward ran from those in authority" - Iceman (admitting the truth regarding his 12th Imam)

Muhammad Tazin

Re: SHIA TAWHEED IS THE PUREST!!
« Reply #29 on: December 10, 2018, 05:46:50 PM »
Surah Al-Nisaa, verse 64.

"And We did not send any messenger except to be obeyed by permission of Allah . And if, when they wronged themselves, they had come to you, [O Muhammad], and asked forgiveness of Allah and the Messenger had asked forgiveness for them, they would have found Allah Accepting of repentance and Merciful.

Note this part of the vetse;

"And if, when they wronged themselves, they had come to you, [O Muhammad]"

They had come to you? Shouldn't they be calling upon Allah?


It seems that you were adamant to perceive the meaning of the verse, while trying to legalize the speeches of these mushrikeen.

The ayat mentions that they would have come to Prophet Muhammad(ﷺ) , to ask forgiveness of Allah , not to ask Prophet Muhammad(ﷺ) to forgive by himself, as like saying "O Nabi, forgive us , give as najaat" etc..
Allah is the authority to forgive those sinners here, and  Prophet Muhammad(ﷺ) is for asking to Allah, as he is beloved most to Allah.

It's not as the twelvers claim that their Imams got departments distributed among themselves to forgive people, provide rizq and children etc.

iceman

Re: SHIA TAWHEED IS THE PUREST!!
« Reply #30 on: December 10, 2018, 07:05:59 PM »
I’ve answered and it twisted you up that you never replied again lol

Here it is again........Ibrahim as was neither promoted or attained any similar grade after prophethood, to us prophethood is the top divine status.

Now can you explain why and how the imams bypassed nabuwwah and the last prophet saw NEVER mentioned such a grade or achieve such a station after His own nabuwwah.

It’s been months and you haven’t moved past this.......yet!!!!

RUN??? Oh come on the whole world knows who RAN and is still RUNNING out of fear of Sunnis.

😉

"Here it is again........Ibrahim as was neither promoted or attained any similar grade after prophethood, to us prophethood is the top divine status"

Ok. Here is the verse again;

"And [mention, O Muhammad], when Abraham was tried by his Lord with commands and he fulfilled them. [ Allah ] said, "Indeed, I will make you an Imam for the people." [Abraham] said, "And of my descendants?" [ Allah ] said, "My covenant does not include the wrongdoers."

"When Abraham was tried by his Lord"

'TRIED' ? What do you make of this? Want to look up the dictionary of what tried means.
« Last Edit: December 10, 2018, 07:08:45 PM by iceman »

iceman

Re: SHIA TAWHEED IS THE PUREST!!
« Reply #31 on: December 10, 2018, 07:28:21 PM »
"Here it is again........Ibrahim as was neither promoted or attained any similar grade after prophethood, to us prophethood is the top divine status"

Ok. Here is the verse again;

"And [mention, O Muhammad], when Abraham was tried by his Lord with commands and he fulfilled them. [ Allah ] said, "Indeed, I will make you an Imam for the people." [Abraham] said, "And of my descendants?" [ Allah ] said, "My covenant does not include the wrongdoers."

"When Abraham was tried by his Lord"

'TRIED' ? What do you make of this? Want to look up the dictionary of what tried means. Tried by whom? By his Lord. Tried by what? By commands. Did he fullfill his trial? Yes he did. So that means he past by being successful. If he didn't then he certainly would have failed. That would mean he didn't succeed.

Since Abraham was tried by his Lord with commands and he fulfilled them, he was made an Imam of the people. You are clearly mitigating the matter here just to serve your purpose. If Imam just means 'leader' and by your thinking there is nothing important and serious here then what was the whole point of the trial?

According to you Prophethood is the top divine status. So Abraham was already Prophet. Again what was the purpose of the trial. And when succeeded what was the point of Allah making Abraham an Imam of the people?

Anyways, I've made my point and I've seen your confrontational stance. And I know your going to remain stubborn about it.

Now lets take a look at your question which has been delayed due to your arrogance and stubbornness.

"Now can you explain why and how the imams bypassed nabuwwah and the last prophet saw NEVER mentioned such a grade or achieve such a station after His own nabuwwah.

You have two questions here;

1, Can you explain why and how the imams bypassed nabuwwah.

2, The last prophet saw NEVER mentioned such a grade or achieve such a station after His own nabuwwah.

iceman

Re: SHIA TAWHEED IS THE PUREST!!
« Reply #32 on: December 10, 2018, 07:43:10 PM »
"Now can you explain why and how the imams bypassed nabuwwah and the last prophet saw NEVER mentioned such a grade or achieve such a station after His own nabuwwah.

You have two questions here;

1, Can you explain why and how the imams bypassed nabuwwah.

2, The last prophet saw NEVER mentioned such a grade or achieve such a station after His own nabuwwah.

Answer to question 1, The Imams didn’t bypass Nabuwah. Rather than trying to bring in and implement your own understanding, try to understand. Your questions are based on trying to get your desired result and conclusion.

Allah does as he pleases. He alone decides. Why? Because he knows better. When did we say that it is necessary for one to be a prophet first before you can become an Imam.

Let me break this down for you. You have two status. 1, Messenger hood and 2, Prophethood. Here the first status is Messenger hood and the second is Prophethood. Either you are a Messenger and that is it. Or you are a Messenger and a Prophet. You can't be a Prophet alone without being a Messenger first.

iceman

Re: SHIA TAWHEED IS THE PUREST!!
« Reply #33 on: December 10, 2018, 11:03:38 PM »
The question of Imamate. Abraham was a Messenger and a Prophet. After being tried and succeeding he was made an Imam of the people. Any person with an open mind and a little bit of sense and logic would know the score here.

It doesn't say anywhere or we haven’t said anywhere that you have to be a Prophet first before you can obtain the title of an Imam. It is down to Allah and at his discretion who he grades and to what and which status and position.

Your questions aren't to learn and to get to know. But just to derail and divert attention. I know that and your intentions. But I will reply and address no matter what.

iceman

Re: SHIA TAWHEED IS THE PUREST!!
« Reply #34 on: December 11, 2018, 09:54:19 AM »
Wait a minute, are you saying that there was nothing wrong with anything said in those videos (by those Shia zakirs)?

It is clear who has been raised with filth since you do not see anything wrong with that video.

Don't you ask your parents to pray for you during, lets say, finals week?  Are you not sure about yourself or do you not have the credibility?  Or is it something else?

It is quite obvious that you do not understand basic Islam or you deliberately choose to be an idiot.

I knew what your lame comeback would be which is why I clearly stated, "And tawassul, even according to extreme Salafis, is acceptable when you ask a pious, living person - who is in your midst - to make du'a for you or for your need".

Can someone ban this guy and put him out of his misery?  That way he can earn some points on his victim card.

"Wait a minute, are you saying that there was nothing wrong with anything said in those videos (by those Shia zakirs)?"

What is that video about? Who took that footage etc etc. What ever seems to be bothering you put it forward and talk about it. Don't grudge about it.

Apart from everything else that's going on in this world and so many issues and matters that have so much importance, why give so much attention to this particular footage. And use it to try and paint a picture about the entire Shia faith and community?

"It is clear who has been raised with filth since you do not see anything wrong with that video"

Filth is what's been coming out of your mouth constantly and you haven't been warned about it let alone banned. Worry about yourself and don't let such a tiny clip end your life. Don't get too depressed over it.

"Don't you ask your parents to pray for you during, lets say, finals week?  Are you not sure about yourself or do you not have the credibility?  Or is it something else?"

Yes I do ask my parents and would that be shirk according to you since you should call on Allah and not anyone else. My parents are better than me. Did Umar call upon someone because he was better than Umar?


Mythbuster1

Re: SHIA TAWHEED IS THE PUREST!!
« Reply #35 on: December 11, 2018, 01:25:12 PM »
"Here it is again........Ibrahim as was neither promoted or attained any similar grade after prophethood, to us prophethood is the top divine status"

Ok. Here is the verse again;

"And [mention, O Muhammad], when Abraham was tried by his Lord with commands and he fulfilled them. [ Allah ] said, "Indeed, I will make you an Imam for the people." [Abraham] said, "And of my descendants?" [ Allah ] said, "My covenant does not include the wrongdoers."

"When Abraham was tried by his Lord"

'TRIED' ? What do you make of this? Want to look up the dictionary of what tried means.

SEE.......you are adding your own theory into it.

Indeed Ibrahim as was tried in His prophethood and fulfilled the commandments set by Allah swt, we agree with the verse, but He wasn’t tried so He can achieve a higher status, that’s just your theory you made up to prop up Imamate.

The problem starts when you ADD your own set of ideas into the verse, in no way does the verse insinuate after prophethood comes imamah apart from you using the word “tried” as if to insinuate it was a test to reach a higher status than prophethood.

Again you are using verses that have nothing to do with something higher than nabuwwah......imamah.

TRIED according to the verse of the Quran on Ibrahim as is answered if you knew our hadiths, it’s easy to find, if not I will post it for you.
Those tests weren’t tests to reach a higher status my lil friend this is where you are having big problems explaining.


1.6 billion Muslims can’t see the imamah but only a fraction out of that say 200 mill,you included,for some odd reason CAN see it.😳

Ibrahim as was tried with tests and passed Alhamdulillah and His offspring were the children of Israel and Allah swt blessed them as we all know and what great leaders they were, He was the imam of them all a leader whom all the 3 sister faiths Islam/Christianity/Judaism look up to and is a great prophet and LEADER/imam for us, simple easy and understandable, we don’t need to delve on certain words to create a vague idea or theory, Alhamdulillah.

Mythbuster1

Re: SHIA TAWHEED IS THE PUREST!!
« Reply #36 on: December 11, 2018, 01:31:55 PM »
"Now can you explain why and how the imams bypassed nabuwwah and the last prophet saw NEVER mentioned such a grade or achieve such a station after His own nabuwwah.

You have two questions here;

1, Can you explain why and how the imams bypassed nabuwwah.

2, The last prophet saw NEVER mentioned such a grade or achieve such a station after His own nabuwwah.

Answer to question 1, The Imams didn’t bypass Nabuwah. Rather than trying to bring in and implement your own understanding, try to understand. Your questions are based on trying to get your desired result and conclusion.
 
LOOK WHOS TALKING😉

Allah does as he pleases. He alone decides. Why? Because he knows better. When did we say that it is necessary for one to be a prophet first before you can become an Imam.

Allah swt sure does as He pleases but He will not give you vague verses or no verses to defend yourselves.

SO WHY ON EARTH DO YOU KEEP REPEATING THE SAME VERSE OF IBRAHIM AS?
You say Imamate is higher yet prophets are mentioned but no divine imam is mentioned?

THINK!


Mythbuster1

Re: SHIA TAWHEED IS THE PUREST!!
« Reply #37 on: December 11, 2018, 01:49:14 PM »
The question of Imamate. Abraham was a Messenger and a Prophet. After being tried and succeeding he was made an Imam of the people. Any person with an open mind and a little bit of sense and logic would know the score here.

Score? You haven’t even provided enough evidence to back your theory of divine imams let alone a prophet having to go through tests to achieve it.

It doesn't say anywhere or we haven’t said anywhere that you have to be a Prophet first before you can obtain the title of an Imam. It is down to Allah and at his discretion who he grades and to what and which status and position.

Huh? It’s YOU who keeps banging on about how a prophet was tested and passed to reach a higher status, it’s YOU who believe imams are higher than prophets apart from the last prophet saw, your post above tells me you are somewhat confused yourself and the cop out is.......it’s up to Allah swt.
I think you are getting confused with this promotion business.😜👍

Your questions aren't to learn and to get to know. But just to derail and divert attention. I know that and your intentions. But I will reply and address no matter what.

No, my questions make you realise your folly hence answers you reply with like above leaves a lot to be desired.

So YOU know I divert attention........I want proof for that or you are A LYING DECIEVING LIL RAT!!!

And I will keep with my words and call you such until you apologise.

It’s so easy for you to pin blame on people without proof, you came out with divine imams are in Quran etc and promotion theories and I am asking questions about them and this leads to diverting attention?

Grow up




iceman

Re: SHIA TAWHEED IS THE PUREST!!
« Reply #38 on: December 11, 2018, 02:06:52 PM »
SEE.......you are adding your own theory into it.

Indeed Ibrahim as was tried in His prophethood and fulfilled the commandments set by Allah swt, we agree with the verse, but He wasn’t tried so He can achieve a higher status, that’s just your theory you made up to prop up Imamate.

The problem starts when you ADD your own set of ideas into the verse, in no way does the verse insinuate after prophethood comes imamah apart from you using the word “tried” as if to insinuate it was a test to reach a higher status than prophethood.

Again you are using verses that have nothing to do with something higher than nabuwwah......imamah.

TRIED according to the verse of the Quran on Ibrahim as is answered if you knew our hadiths, it’s easy to find, if not I will post it for you.
Those tests weren’t tests to reach a higher status my lil friend this is where you are having big problems explaining.


1.6 billion Muslims can’t see the imamah but only a fraction out of that say 200 mill,you included,for some odd reason CAN see it.😳

Ibrahim as was tried with tests and passed Alhamdulillah and His offspring were the children of Israel and Allah swt blessed them as we all know and what great leaders they were, He was the imam of them all a leader whom all the 3 sister faiths Islam/Christianity/Judaism look up to and is a great prophet and LEADER/imam for us, simple easy and understandable, we don’t need to delve on certain words to create a vague idea or theory, Alhamdulillah.

My God, the first and only decent post I've had from you without any insulting remarks, sarcastic comments and hardly any smiley faces. What an achievement. But I don't want to jinx it. So I won't say anything more and push my luck.

"SEE.......you are adding your own theory into it."

I'm not adding my theory to it. The matter is straightforward and in black and white. There's nothing you can add or subtract. I know it's going to be very difficult for you to agree and accept. I completely understand that.

Abraham was tried by his Lord. Now what was the reason for this? Surely there has to be a reason for it. He was already a Messenger and Prophet. But what happened when he succeeded, when he was successful in his trial? He was made an Imam of the people. It's just as simple as that. Nothing more and nothing less. And he asked for the same thing from his offsprings. You don't want to accept it then that's fine. But the matter is straightforward and crystal clear. Lets be honest with ourselves.

iceman

Re: SHIA TAWHEED IS THE PUREST!!
« Reply #39 on: December 11, 2018, 02:56:40 PM »
SEE.......you are adding your own theory into it.

Indeed Ibrahim as was tried in His prophethood and fulfilled the commandments set by Allah swt, we agree with the verse, but He wasn’t tried so He can achieve a higher status, that’s just your theory you made up to prop up Imamate.

The problem starts when you ADD your own set of ideas into the verse, in no way does the verse insinuate after prophethood comes imamah apart from you using the word “tried” as if to insinuate it was a test to reach a higher status than prophethood.

Again you are using verses that have nothing to do with something higher than nabuwwah......imamah.

TRIED according to the verse of the Quran on Ibrahim as is answered if you knew our hadiths, it’s easy to find, if not I will post it for you.
Those tests weren’t tests to reach a higher status my lil friend this is where you are having big problems explaining.


1.6 billion Muslims can’t see the imamah but only a fraction out of that say 200 mill,you included,for some odd reason CAN see it.😳

Ibrahim as was tried with tests and passed Alhamdulillah and His offspring were the children of Israel and Allah swt blessed them as we all know and what great leaders they were, He was the imam of them all a leader whom all the 3 sister faiths Islam/Christianity/Judaism look up to and is a great prophet and LEADER/imam for us, simple easy and understandable, we don’t need to delve on certain words to create a vague idea or theory, Alhamdulillah.

"Indeed Ibrahim as was tried in His prophethood and fulfilled the commandments set by Allah swt, we agree with the verse, but He wasn’t tried so He can achieve a higher status, that’s just your theory you made up to prop up Imamate"

Your words, "but He wasn’t tried so he can achieve a higher status". But he was tried and when he was successful he was made an Imam of the people. But after he was tried and he became successful. This clearly tells that he wasn't an Imam before this. He was a Messenger and Prophet but not an Imam.

This is no joke. He was made an Imam after being tried and being successful. This proves clearly that there is such thing as Imamah. That was the question and here it is again, is there such thing as Imamah and does it exist in the Qur'an. In other words, is it mentioned in the Qur'an? The answer is, Absolutely and most definitely YES.

"TRIED according to the verse of the Quran on Ibrahim as is answered if you knew our hadiths, it’s easy to find, if not I will post it for you"

Please do post them to me. Thanks. That would be a great help.

"Those tests weren’t tests to reach a higher status my lil friend this is where you are having big problems explaining:

Higher status? That can be looked at and discussed. But one thing is clear that after being tried and being successful in that trial only then he was made an Imam.

Now you saying;

"Those tests weren’t tests to reach a higher status my lil friend this is where you are having big problems explaining"

Either I'm having problems explaining or your having problems understanding. Lets balance this and keep it fair.

"1.6 billion Muslims can’t see the imamah but only a fraction out of that say 200 mill,you included,for some odd reason CAN see it"

Yes I agree. But the problem with that 1.6 billion is the Sahaba, the Companions. A handful of companions took matter in their own hands based on the theory that the Prophet s.a.w did not name and appoint anyone to govern after him.

So being honest and going by this theory this is a very very important matter. And that is choosing a leader to govern the Muslims and their affairs. The reputation, character, honour and all the rest of it of these companions is on the line.

This is where the problem is for the 1.6 billion Muslims you mention. It's not that the 1.6 billion Muslims can’t see the imamah, it's they do see it but are having problems accepting it then trying to come to terms with it. If they do come anywhere near or close to seeing it then what do you think will happen about Saqifa? And the character and reputation of those involved and concerned?

"Ibrahim as was tried with tests and passed Alhamdulillah and His offspring were the children of Israel and Allah swt blessed them as we all know and what great leaders they were, He was the imam of them all a leader whom all the 3 sister faiths Islam/Christianity/Judaism look up to and is a great prophet and LEADER/imam for us, simple easy and understandable, we don’t need to delve on certain words to create a vague idea or theory, Alhamdulillah"

If it simple, easy and understandable as you put it and according to your theory then Allah wouldn’t have mentioned this because he was already a IMAM meaning LEADER to begin with. What was the whole point of the trial and being successful and only after that Allah making him an Imam of the people?
« Last Edit: December 11, 2018, 03:05:52 PM by iceman »

 

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