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SHIA TAWHEED IS THE PUREST!!

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muslim720

Re: SHIA TAWHEED IS THE PUREST!!
« Reply #40 on: December 11, 2018, 03:36:21 PM »
What is that video about? Who took that footage etc etc. What ever seems to be bothering you put it forward and talk about it. Don't grudge about it.

Clearly, we have put forward the video and it bothers us in its entirety.  Can you now proceed to condemn or condone its content (everything being preached by the Shi'i zakirs)?

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Apart from everything else that's going on in this world and so many issues and matters that have so much importance, why give so much attention to this particular footage. And use it to try and paint a picture about the entire Shia faith and community?

You are a Shia!  Does it not bother you that these men are preaching kufr in the name of Shiaism?  Or do you consider their speech (and its content) acceptable?  I am almost certain that it is the latter.  You have now spent days on this topic without ever condemning its content.  You have brought up issues going on in the world, the creator of the video, the one who collected the clips, etc, but not a word of condemnation.

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Filth is what's been coming out of your mouth constantly and you haven't been warned about it let alone banned. Worry about yourself and don't let such a tiny clip end your life. Don't get too depressed over it.

....and you have endless advice for me but we are yet to see you condemn the kufr in the video.  I will leave you alone if you condone or condemn the content of the video.  Simple!

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Yes I do ask my parents and would that be shirk according to you since you should call on Allah and not anyone else.

How would that be shirk, according to me, when I request my parents to pray for me all the time?

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My parents are better than me. Did Umar call upon someone because he was better than Umar?

Umar (ra) called upon the uncle of the Prophet (saw) to pray for rain because of his nearness (in kin) to the Prophet (saw).  The same uncle whom you dislike, and his son too!  However, you have nothing but praises for the other uncle who never accepted Islam, the disbelieving "mu'min" who fathered your first "infallible" Imam (ra), lol.
"Our coward ran from those in authority" - Iceman (admitting the truth regarding his 12th Imam)

Mythbuster1

Re: SHIA TAWHEED IS THE PUREST!!
« Reply #41 on: December 11, 2018, 04:22:53 PM »
"Indeed Ibrahim as was tried in His prophethood and fulfilled the commandments set by Allah swt, we agree with the verse, but He wasn’t tried so He can achieve a higher status, that’s just your theory you made up to prop up Imamate"

Your words, "but He wasn’t tried so he can achieve a higher status". But he was tried and when he was successful he was made an Imam of the people. But after he was tried and he became successful. This clearly tells that he wasn't an Imam before this. He was a Messenger and Prophet but not an Imam.

Tried with what? You keep banging on about tried but what was the trial to achieve divine Imamate?

My friend imam is just a leader, Ibrahim as is remembered as a prophet FIRST and then Allah swt placed Him as an imam a leader, His tests according to His nabuwwah He had passed and Allah swt made him a leader after prophethood amongst His people without ANY divine power, unless the verse you quoted says so otherwise it’s a normal leadership you and I or anyone can attain.
Again you are pushing the idea of divine imams without clear enough evidence or are just desperately trying to explain something that is not clear.

This is no joke. He was made an Imam after being tried and being successful. This proves clearly that there is such thing as Imamah. That was the question and here it is again, is there such thing as Imamah and does it exist in the Qur'an. In other words, is it mentioned in the Qur'an? The answer is, Absolutely and most definitely YES.

He was made an imam. He definitely wasn’t a DIVINE imam, you know and I know and the Muslims who read the Quran KNOW THERE DEFINITELY ISNT NO DIVINE IMAM STATUS OR THEORY WITHIN THE QURAN..........hence you keep posting that 1 verse REPEATEDLY and add your own theory onto it why it is divine Imamate but not no normal Imamate.
You added the concept of promotion too which you cannot explain......yet, your answer is “it was up to Allah!”.
Come on😳
"Those tests weren’t tests to reach a higher status my lil friend this is where you are having big problems explaining:

Higher status? That can be looked at and discussed. But one thing is clear that after being tried and being successful in that trial only then he was made an Imam.

Now you saying;

"Those tests weren’t tests to reach a higher status my lil friend this is where you are having big problems explaining"

Either I'm having problems explaining or your having problems understanding. Lets balance this and keep it fair.

Personally I think it’s YOU who is having problems understanding YOUR own theory😄
The Shiites belief is, imams are higher than prophets.
Yes I agree. But the problem with that 1.6 billion is the Sahaba, the Companions. A handful of companions took matter in their own hands based on the theory that the Prophet s.a.w did not name and appoint anyone to govern after him.

So being honest and going by this theory this is a very very important matter. And that is choosing a leader to govern the Muslims and their affairs. The reputation, character, honour and all the rest of it of these companions is on the line.

This is where the problem is for the 1.6 billion Muslims you mention. It's not that the 1.6 billion Muslims can’t see the imamah, it's they do see it but are having problems accepting it then trying to come to terms with it. If they do come anywhere near or close to seeing it then what do you think will happen about Saqifa? And the character and reputation of those involved and concerned?


So a few men held the prophet saw’s religion hostage and wanted to rule and for 1400 years Allah swt has hidden the last imam made shiites unanswerable like yourself.......(PROMOTIONS!!) hid or secluded anything related to Imamate in the book made you the weakest out of all the ummah (look at Shiite history).

Yet the facts about them great leaders are completely opposite altogether.

Whom is a god fearing soul gonna believe? History or your say so?

DEFINITELY NOT YOU!!

If it simple, easy and understandable as you put it and according to your theory then Allah wouldn’t have mentioned this because he was already a IMAM meaning LEADER to begin with. What was the whole point of the trial and being successful and only after that Allah making him an Imam of the people?

Ibrahim as had a specific allocation given to him by Allah swt, which is that from his progeny will be all the prophets and from them - for Muslims - comes Muhammad saw.

Not imams of divine nature!

It’s that simple.

I STILL NEED YOU TO PROVIDE ME OF EVIDENCE THAT YOU KNEW MY INTENTIONS TO DERAIL AND DIVERT ATTENTION FROM YOUR THEORIES.......I ain’t gonna let you lie about me and walk away, either an apology or evidence will do.

iceman

Re: SHIA TAWHEED IS THE PUREST!!
« Reply #42 on: December 11, 2018, 06:19:41 PM »
Tried with what? You keep banging on about tried but what was the trial to achieve divine Imamate?

My friend imam is just a leader, Ibrahim as is remembered as a prophet FIRST and then Allah swt placed Him as an imam a leader, His tests according to His nabuwwah He had passed and Allah swt made him a leader after prophethood amongst His people without ANY divine power, unless the verse you quoted says so otherwise it’s a normal leadership you and I or anyone can attain.
Again you are pushing the idea of divine imams without clear enough evidence or are just desperately trying to explain something that is not clear.
He was made an imam. He definitely wasn’t a DIVINE imam, you know and I know and the Muslims who read the Quran KNOW THERE DEFINITELY ISNT NO DIVINE IMAM STATUS OR THEORY WITHIN THE QURAN..........hence you keep posting that 1 verse REPEATEDLY and add your own theory onto it why it is divine Imamate but not no normal Imamate.
You added the concept of promotion too which you cannot explain......yet, your answer is “it was up to Allah!”.
Come on😳
Personally I think it’s YOU who is having problems understanding YOUR own theory😄
The Shiites belief is, imams are higher than prophets.

So a few men held the prophet saw’s religion hostage and wanted to rule and for 1400 years Allah swt has hidden the last imam made shiites unanswerable like yourself.......(PROMOTIONS!!) hid or secluded anything related to Imamate in the book made you the weakest out of all the ummah (look at Shiite history).

Yet the facts about them great leaders are completely opposite altogether.

Whom is a god fearing soul gonna believe? History or your say so?

DEFINITELY NOT YOU!!

Ibrahim as had a specific allocation given to him by Allah swt, which is that from his progeny will be all the prophets and from them - for Muslims - comes Muhammad saw.

Not imams of divine nature!

It’s that simple.

I STILL NEED YOU TO PROVIDE ME OF EVIDENCE THAT YOU KNEW MY INTENTIONS TO DERAIL AND DIVERT ATTENTION FROM YOUR THEORIES.......I ain’t gonna let you lie about me and walk away, either an apology or evidence will do.

"Tried with what? You keep banging on about tried but what was the trial to achieve divine Imamate?"

Calm down and relax. "Tried with what?" You wouldn't have asked me this if you were interested in the verses to begin with. Have you not read and studied the verses. I don't think you're bothered to even look into it. But anyways, here are the verses again;

"And [mention, O Muhammad], when Abraham was tried by his Lord with commands and he fulfilled them. [ Allah ] said, "Indeed, I will make you an Imam for the people." [Abraham] said, "And of my descendants?" [ Allah ] said, "My covenant does not include the wrongdoers."

"When Abraham was TRIED by his Lord WITH COMMANDS"

Read and look into this with an open mind. He was tried by his Lord. Why was he tried? Surely this means something and something is going on here. What happened next? "And he FULLFILLED them". Fullfilled what? Those COMMANDS.

What happened next? "Allah said, "Indeed, I will make you an Imam for the people". Allah said, not the Shias. Allah made him an Imam of the people, not the Shias. An Imam of the people which he clearly wasn't before this.

Now we can twist and turn the meaning of Imam from here to there according to our desire to mitigate such an important status and matter but the truth is the truth and it is right in front of us.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2018, 06:30:11 PM by iceman »

iceman

Re: SHIA TAWHEED IS THE PUREST!!
« Reply #43 on: December 11, 2018, 10:13:23 PM »
Quran 17:71

[Mention, O Muhammad], the Day We will call forth every people with their Imam, then whoever is given his record in his right hand those will read their records, and injustice will not be done to them, [even] as much as a thread [inside the date seed].

Quran 2:124

[Mention, O Muhammad], when Abraham was tried by his Lord with commands and he fulfilled them. [ Allah ] said, "Indeed, I will make you an Imam for the people." [Abraham] said, "And of my descendants?" [ Allah ] said, "My covenant does not include the wrongdoers."

Have you noticed that both sets of verses start off with [Mention, O Muhammad].
« Last Edit: December 11, 2018, 10:21:48 PM by iceman »

Mythbuster1

Re: SHIA TAWHEED IS THE PUREST!!
« Reply #44 on: December 12, 2018, 10:04:29 AM »
"Tried with what? You keep banging on about tried but what was the trial to achieve divine Imamate?"

Calm down and relax. "Tried with what?" You wouldn't have asked me this if you were interested in the verses to begin with. Have you not read and studied the verses. I don't think you're bothered to even look into it. But anyways, here are the verses again;

"And [mention, O Muhammad], when Abraham was tried by his Lord with commands and he fulfilled them. [ Allah ] said, "Indeed, I will make you an Imam for the people." [Abraham] said, "And of my descendants?" [ Allah ] said, "My covenant does not include the wrongdoers."

"When Abraham was TRIED by his Lord WITH COMMANDS"

Read and look into this with an open mind. He was tried by his Lord. Why was he tried? Surely this means something and something is going on here. What happened next? "And he FULLFILLED them". Fullfilled what? Those COMMANDS.

What happened next? "Allah said, "Indeed, I will make you an Imam for the people". Allah said, not the Shias. Allah made him an Imam of the people, not the Shias. An Imam of the people which he clearly wasn't before this.

Now we can twist and turn the meaning of Imam from here to there according to our desire to mitigate such an important status and matter but the truth is the truth and it is right in front of us.

what was the trial?

Allah swt said yes He will make Him an imam........Which He did become 👍

Allah swt DOESNT day He will be a .......DIVINE imam (Shiite version)!

Again you are TWISTING it to your own desires, stop it!


Mythbuster1

Re: SHIA TAWHEED IS THE PUREST!!
« Reply #45 on: December 12, 2018, 10:12:11 AM »
Quran 17:71

[Mention, O Muhammad], the Day We will call forth every people with their Imam, then whoever is given his record in his right hand those will read their records, and injustice will not be done to them, [even] as much as a thread [inside the date seed].

Quran 2:124

[Mention, O Muhammad], when Abraham was tried by his Lord with commands and he fulfilled them. [ Allah ] said, "Indeed, I will make you an Imam for the people." [Abraham] said, "And of my descendants?" [ Allah ] said, "My covenant does not include the wrongdoers."

Have you noticed that both sets of verses start off with [Mention, O Muhammad].

Again here you are twisting the verses so you can make a case of divine Imamate even amongst the verses that have the word IMAM in there LOL.

1) Allah swt is NOT talking about a divine imam😂😂😂
Here this will put it in perspective

[Mention, O Muhammad], the Day We will call forth every people with their record [of deeds]. Then whoever is given his record in his right hand - those will read their records, and injustice will not be done to them, [even] as much as a thread [inside the date seed].

So you gonna recieve your divine imam from your right hand?😉👍

2) ALREADY ANSWERED AND DEBUNKED..........move on!

Mythbuster1

Re: SHIA TAWHEED IS THE PUREST!!
« Reply #46 on: December 12, 2018, 10:14:50 AM »
Could you please provide evidence of me derailing any threads, you seem to know peoples intentions like as if you are divine.

Either apologise or bring forth your evidence unless you was lying just to look good.

iceman

Re: SHIA TAWHEED IS THE PUREST!!
« Reply #47 on: December 12, 2018, 10:56:44 PM »
what was the trial?

Allah swt said yes He will make Him an imam........Which He did become 👍

Allah swt DOESNT day He will be a .......DIVINE imam (Shiite version)!

Again you are TWISTING it to your own desires, stop it!

"what was the trial?"

COMMANDS! Allah tried him with commands. That's what Allah said. Not me or the Shia community. Now what commands, how and in what way and method was he tried, I guess we'll ask Allah when we see him 😊

"Allah swt said yes He will make Him an imam........Which He did become"

He did become but after he was tried and not before.

"Allah swt DOESNT day He will be a .......DIVINE imam (Shiite version)!"

Did Allah say that he made him an Imam but not a divine one? 😊

He was a Messenger and a Prophet. Both titles are divine. Then he was made an Imam but excluding divinity? Where did you come up with this explanation? He was divine already 😊

Can you show or tell me anywhere in the Qur'an where Allah has said he made so and so a prophet and divine as well? Then one can question why divine or divinity wasn't mentioned here but was mentioned over there.

"Again you are TWISTING it to your own desires, stop it!"

Nope. You're finding it hard to accept. You're looking for excuses. And you're raising questions based on those excuses.

iceman

Re: SHIA TAWHEED IS THE PUREST!!
« Reply #48 on: December 12, 2018, 11:01:23 PM »
Again here you are twisting the verses so you can make a case of divine Imamate even amongst the verses that have the word IMAM in there LOL.

1) Allah swt is NOT talking about a divine imam😂😂😂
Here this will put it in perspective

[Mention, O Muhammad], the Day We will call forth every people with their record [of deeds]. Then whoever is given his record in his right hand - those will read their records, and injustice will not be done to them, [even] as much as a thread [inside the date seed].

So you gonna recieve your divine imam from your right hand?😉👍

2) ALREADY ANSWERED AND DEBUNKED..........move on!

The word IMAM has been used. Be it IMAM here or WALI over there, the Ahle Sunnah twist and turn the meanings to mitigate the verses and matters. It's time to be honest with yourselves. Saqifa has taken the honesty away from you. Infact it's taken a lot away from you and left you in dark and all confused.

iceman

Re: SHIA TAWHEED IS THE PUREST!!
« Reply #49 on: December 12, 2018, 11:08:14 PM »
Could you please provide evidence of me derailing any threads, you seem to know peoples intentions like as if you are divine.

Either apologise or bring forth your evidence unless you was lying just to look good.

My pleasure! Your post #15;

"I swear by Allah swt YOU could NEVER provide a CLEAR verse on divine imamah and could NEVER answer your own theory........PROMOTIONS!!!

You can crawl back in your crack where you came from and enjoy living it there and feel pleased with yourself, the truth to you is a bitter pill to swallow"

Now you be honest with yourself and tell me what the title of this thread is? And what have you brought in?

DIVINE IMAMAH.

Would you like me to provide more evidence. And it's not just you.

Mythbuster1

Re: SHIA TAWHEED IS THE PUREST!!
« Reply #50 on: December 12, 2018, 11:48:48 PM »
The word IMAM has been used. Be it IMAM here or WALI over there, the Ahle Sunnah twist and turn the meanings to mitigate the verses and matters. It's time to be honest with yourselves. Saqifa has taken the honesty away from you. Infact it's taken a lot away from you and left you in dark and all confused.

As EXPECTED you couldn’t explain your stance CLEARLY after I exposed your loopholes it all ends with.........SAQIFA😂😂👍

Alhamdulillah

I KNEW IT😉


Mythbuster1

Re: SHIA TAWHEED IS THE PUREST!!
« Reply #51 on: December 13, 2018, 12:01:32 AM »
My pleasure! Your post #15;

"I swear by Allah swt YOU could NEVER provide a CLEAR verse on divine imamah and could NEVER answer your own theory........PROMOTIONS!!!

You can crawl back in your crack where you came from and enjoy living it there and feel pleased with yourself, the truth to you is a bitter pill to swallow"

Now you be honest with yourself and tell me what the title of this thread is? And what have you brought in?

DIVINE IMAMAH.

Would you like me to provide more evidence. And it's not just you.

Your such a dense individual honestly

You stated my intention was to “DERAIL AND DIVERT”

That remark of mine was my intention to derail thread? How?

I know you can’t provide proof of divine Imamate or your promotion theory it’s been dealt with and put to bed,READ THE POSTS as for the remarks afterwards that is you come from the dark you might as well stay in the dark how does that equate to having intentions of derailing the thread?
False accusations?

You really need to READ properly.

Mythbuster1

Re: SHIA TAWHEED IS THE PUREST!!
« Reply #52 on: December 13, 2018, 12:13:25 AM »
The word IMAM has been used. Be it IMAM here or WALI over there, the Ahle Sunnah twist and turn the meanings to mitigate the verses and matters. It's time to be honest with yourselves. Saqifa has taken the honesty away from you. Infact it's taken a lot away from you and left you in dark and all confused.

Thankyou so this verse with the word IMAM is for your divine imams also?

And we made them Imams who call to the fire and on the day of Qiyamat they shall not be assisted. And we caused a curse to follow them in this world, and on the day of Qiyamat they shall be of those made to appear hideous. (Surah Qasas 28:41-42)

Like shiites won’t twist and turn the meanings to mitigate the verses and matters.😉

Mythbuster1

Re: SHIA TAWHEED IS THE PUREST!!
« Reply #53 on: December 13, 2018, 12:26:13 AM »

Now you be honest with yourself and tell me what the title of this thread is? And what have you brought in?

DIVINE IMAMAH.

Would you like me to provide more evidence. And it's not just you.

I wonder which individual derailed the thread on questions for Shiites?
You started on Muslim 720 just because he was honest and attended your majlis and was genuine to learn which he did and made him better understand your side, you barged in and derailed it with your nonsense.

All clear to see on the thread named “question for shia”.

4 pages and they are filled with an obtuse individual who won’t believe what a genuine poster experienced..........so much hate, I wonder why?

muslim720

Re: SHIA TAWHEED IS THE PUREST!!
« Reply #54 on: December 13, 2018, 03:51:54 PM »
You started on Muslim 720 just because he was honest and attended your majlis and was genuine to learn which he did and made him better understand your side, you barged in and derailed it with your nonsense.

There is so much blame-game in their masaajid.  After a while, it starts getting mundane.  Even Friday sermons are not spared from mentions of "Saudi Arabia", "corrupt leaders", this one, that one....come on!
"Our coward ran from those in authority" - Iceman (admitting the truth regarding his 12th Imam)

iceman

Re: SHIA TAWHEED IS THE PUREST!!
« Reply #55 on: December 14, 2018, 03:09:16 AM »
As EXPECTED you couldn’t explain your stance CLEARLY after I exposed your loopholes it all ends with.........SAQIFA😂😂👍

Alhamdulillah

I KNEW IT😉

It begins with Saqifa and ends with Saqifa. If it wasn't for Saqifa we wouldn’t have this difference within the Ummah. And we wouldn't be a divided nation in a mess.

Our stance is clear. Your religion begins with Muhammad s.a.w and ends with him. After Muhammad s.a.w you have nothing absolute, clear, sure and firm. Our religion beings with Muhammad s.a.w and carries on from Muhammad s.a.w. We have something, absolute, clear, sure and firm.

iceman

Re: SHIA TAWHEED IS THE PUREST!!
« Reply #56 on: December 14, 2018, 03:20:07 AM »
There is so much blame-game in their masaajid.  After a while, it starts getting mundane.  Even Friday sermons are not spared from mentions of "Saudi Arabia", "corrupt leaders", this one, that one....come on!

Which Masjid did you go to. If I want to know and learn about the Americans and I visit and engage with the Ku Klux klan  (KKK) would that give me a complete picture about the Americans and how they are.

If I want to know and learn about the British and I visit and engage with either the BNP or the National Front would that give me a complete picture about the British and how they are.

If I want to know and learn about Islam and the Muslims and I visit and engage with ISIS would that give me a complete and absolute picture about Islam and the Muslims and how they are.

Come on, you know what I mean. You're not dumb. 😊

iceman

Re: SHIA TAWHEED IS THE PUREST!!
« Reply #57 on: December 14, 2018, 03:24:11 AM »
I wonder which individual derailed the thread on questions for Shiites?
You started on Muslim 720 just because he was honest and attended your majlis and was genuine to learn which he did and made him better understand your side, you barged in and derailed it with your nonsense.

All clear to see on the thread named “question for shia”.

4 pages and they are filled with an obtuse individual who won’t believe what a genuine poster experienced..........so much hate, I wonder why?

You're siding and speaking so highly and in defense of Muslim 720, well that's obvious. You obviously would. 😊 Sunni siding with a Sunni doesn't equal honesty.

iceman

Re: SHIA TAWHEED IS THE PUREST!!
« Reply #58 on: December 14, 2018, 03:26:46 AM »
Thankyou so this verse with the word IMAM is for your divine imams also?

And we made them Imams who call to the fire and on the day of Qiyamat they shall not be assisted. And we caused a curse to follow them in this world, and on the day of Qiyamat they shall be of those made to appear hideous. (Surah Qasas 28:41-42)

Like shiites won’t twist and turn the meanings to mitigate the verses and matters.😉

Thanks for putting that forward. IMAMAH DOES EXIST IN THE QUR'AN AND ALLAH MAKES IMAMS. We've proven this together. 😀

muslim720

Re: SHIA TAWHEED IS THE PUREST!!
« Reply #59 on: December 14, 2018, 03:23:46 PM »
Which Masjid did you go to.

1.  Manassas mosque in Manassas, Virginia
2.  Islamic Education Center in Potomac, Maryland
3.  Imam Ali Center in Springfield, Virginia

Google them!  If you know anyone in the DC Metropolitan area who has been to those mosques, you can confirm these mosques with them.  In fact, if you want, I will give you detailed description of the interior of those masaajid for you to confirm with them.

Quote
If I want to know and learn about the Americans and I visit and engage with the Ku Klux klan  (KKK) would that give me a complete picture about the Americans and how they are.

While I am certain that you would pull off such a dumb move, I did not do that.  To confirm what I read about Shias online, I visited their own mosques.

Quote
If I want to know and learn about the British and I visit and engage with either the BNP or the National Front would that give me a complete picture about the British and how they are.

Wouldn't be surprised if you actually do that!

Quote
If I want to know and learn about Islam and the Muslims and I visit and engage with ISIS would that give me a complete and absolute picture about Islam and the Muslims and how they are.

You have done this extensively.  The mere fact that you keep bringing them up proves that, to some degree, you associate them with orthodox Sunni Islam.

Quote
Come on, you know what I mean. You're not dumb. 😊

I know what you mean but seeing your irrelevant analogies, I'm almost certain that you would actually do all these things (you have mentioned).
« Last Edit: December 14, 2018, 03:24:47 PM by muslim720 »
"Our coward ran from those in authority" - Iceman (admitting the truth regarding his 12th Imam)

 

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