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The 2nd portion of verse 4:59.

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Soccer

The 2nd portion of verse 4:59.
« on: August 11, 2021, 09:55:54 PM »
As for the first part, it's been discussed to death, about the context etc.

As for the 2nd part, there are a lot of conjecture arguments about it.   The argument is if Ulil-Amr were to be referred to, then they should be mentioned.

Today, if people try to refer their disputes to Imam Mahdi (a), how are the supposed to? Moreover, did Allah (swt) want us to refer to all of Ahlulbayt (a) at the same time? For example, obeying Mohammad (s) is obeying Ali (a) and vice versa, since they all command to obey God and there is no disagreement between them. We see people use "had they referred to Rasool and Ulil-Amr from them" as an argument against Ahlulbayt (a) since Mohammad (s) didn't appoint Imam Hussain (a) yet for example and future Imams (a) weren't ruling. However, the "had they.." is not a command and so you see the problem if 4:59 continued with Ulil-Amr in disputes?

And is referring disputes to Hassan (a) the same as referring disputes to Mohammad (S) during that time?  The Rasool (a) is the one who convey the clear message, what is meant by referring disputes, is referring to the words of the current Rasool.

This can also mean that Ulil-Amr don't have to become Messengers if people don't dispute and agree and hold on to rope of God. But if they disagree, and the main disagreement will be about who the Ulil-Amr are and God is not a fool to not know that, God is saying refer it to God and the Messenger (if there is a Messenger among you). The brackets is implied.

Today, Quran and Sunnah doesn't solve our disputes but rather the whole dispute in religion is about Quran and Sunnah.  It can't unite us if we disagree on interpretation and understanding and even what are the true hadiths.

To refer to Allah (swt) is the light and Quran, and to refer to Rasool (s) is to refer to the light and Sunnah, but the Sunna is what is undisputed of that time.  It's words that everyone knows Rasool (s) said.

Today, hadiths don't provide that certainty as it did during Mohammad (s) time.

In reality, the Ulil-Amr would all have to become a Messenger of their time, if disputes occur. As for the Messengership fo the last Imam (a), it's on hold, and this aya can be saying, we won't solve our disputes unless we somehow get him to come out and refer all our disputes and differences to him.

The first part of the aya with flow of 4:54 is emphasizing on the wisdom of having an Ahlulbayt (a) together as Authority, the 2nd part is saying, God forbid you dispute in the religion even so much so you would be disobeying God, Rasool and Ulil-Amr, if you have any faith in God and the last day, then refer it to God and the Messenger... but what happens now when there is no Messenger?

Of course once a Messenger always a Messenger, but Quran even talks about a period without Messengers between Isa (a) and Mohammad (s), and didn't say Isa (a) was the Rasool the whole time.

Indeed Isa (a) was the last Rasool to be sent during that time, but when there is no Sunnah provider in clear messages in public - there is no Messenger.

Indeed the verses AFTER talk about Mohammad (s) judging their disputes and differences, and they had to go to the living Mohammad (s) and not just attribute words to him, but go to him.

This implies if disputes happen, Ulil-Amr would all be the Messengers of their time.

And it also implies we won't solve our disputes unless we get the Mahdi to come out and proclaim his message.

« Last Edit: August 11, 2021, 09:59:27 PM by Soccer »
By the name of God, the (universally) Compassionate, The (extremely) Compassionate; for the unity of the Togetherness; Is their unity in the travels in the winter and summer. So let them Worship the Lord of this household. The one who fed them from hunger and gave them security from fear.

 

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