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The place of Aaron to Moses parallels to Ali and Mohammad in Quran and Sunnah.

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There are many ahadith stating Ali has a position to Mohammad as does Aaron to Moses, except there is no Prophet after Mohammad.

Some brief points:

1) The context suggested by "except there is no Prophet after me"

Sunnis say this was meant to only illustrate the position of Aarpm taking place of Moses in his absence but doesn't give all the rest of the honors that Aaron had with Moses.

The fact he said "except there is no Prophet after me" suggestions the context of the statement was inclusive of Prophethood with regard to Aaron's position to Moses. If it was limited to the situation of Aaron to Moses with respect to taking his place in a temporary position of leading the people in absence of Moses, then Prophethood would not have been an exception.

That means aside from Prophethood, Ali has all other positions with respect to Aaron to Moses.

2) What is that temporary leadership of Aaron believed by Sunnis?

If we see that temporary leadership of Aaron, it was an appointed from God and he was chosen to lead by God. Thus the recognition of Aaron would be recognizing him as a chosen leader and who obedience is obedience to God.

That means Ali is a leader appointed by God.  If we look at Aaron taking his place, he is not just a close companion taking his place, but a leader appointed by God really literally taking Moses position among the people during that time.

3) The "you have the position of Aaron to Moses" clause.

It never makes sense to say something like "You have the position of Mohammad except you are not a Prophet or chosen by God nor should people follow you like Mohammad, actually you are regular person, what I mean by that position was a particular thing: You are human like Mohammad and that's what I meant."

The fact he was given that clause, means, he has the position of Aaron to Moses. As the position of Aaron to Moses is a major theme, that is what is meant. The exception is made with the issue of Prophethood.

The next thing we will look at is how this hadith is in fact verified by a whole theme in Quran that parallels words to Mohammad by God, and Moses prayer paraphrased in many ways.



Love of the family of Yaseen is the light of the heavens and the earth.

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(Suratal A'araaf)
By the Name of God, the Compassionate, the Merciful, Alif Lam Mim Saud, a book we have brought down to you so there be no straightness in your breast that you may warn by it and a reminder to the believers.

(Suratal Hijr)
And indeed we know your breast is straightened by what they say.

(Suratal Isra)
And say God cause me to enter an honest entering and go forth an honest going forth, and give me from you a helping authority.

(Suratal Inshira)
By the Name of God, the Compassionate, the Merciful, did we not expand you your breast?


Now a person may think, this has nothing to do with Ali and it would be a stretch to say so. But why emphasize on paraphrasing Moses words to match this:



[Shakir 20:25] He said: O my Lord! Expand my breast for me,
وَيَسِّرْ لِي أَمْرِي {26}
[Shakir 20:26] And make my affair easy to me,
وَاحْلُلْ عُقْدَةً مِنْ لِسَانِي {27}
[Shakir 20:27] And loose the knot from my tongue,
يَفْقَهُوا قَوْلِي {28}
[Shakir 20:28] (That) they may understand my word;
وَاجْعَلْ لِي وَزِيرًا مِنْ أَهْلِي {29}
[Shakir 20:29] And give to me an aider from my family:
هَارُونَ أَخِي {30}
[Shakir 20:30] Haroun, my brother,
اشْدُدْ بِهِ أَزْرِي {31}
[Shakir 20:31] Strengthen my back by him,
وَأَشْرِكْهُ فِي أَمْرِي {32}
[Shakir 20:32] And associate him (with me) in my affair,
كَيْ نُسَبِّحَكَ كَثِيرًا {33}
[Shakir 20:33] So that we should glorify Thee much,
وَنَذْكُرَكَ كَثِيرًا {34}
[Shakir 20:34] And remember Thee oft.


وَيَضِيقُ صَدْرِي وَلَا يَنْطَلِقُ لِسَانِي فَأَرْسِلْ إِلَىٰ هَارُونَ {13}
[26:13] And my breast straitens, and my tongue does not reach, therefore send Thou to Haroun (to help me);



وَأَخِي هَارُونُ هُوَ أَفْصَحُ مِنِّي لِسَانًا فَأَرْسِلْهُ مَعِيَ رِدْءًا يُصَدِّقُنِي ۖ إِنِّي أَخَافُ أَنْ يُكَذِّبُونِ {34}
[Shakir 28:34] And my brother, Haroun, he is more reaching in tongue than I, therefore send him with me as an aider, verifying me: surely I fear that they would reject me.


If we gather these verses, the ones with Mohammad and ones with Moses,  the ones with Mohammad are making clear that Aaron was not better in conveying due to a fault of Moses, but that it was "due to what they say", that Moses had such constriction on his heart.

And the verses with Moses shows Mohammad also never had a psychological weakness or anything, but that, his heart was straightened and constrained by what people were saying.

It was due to the circumstances they were both in that such constraint took place.

The relief of this burden weighing heavily on their backs, strengthening them and their affair, was through the conception of succession in Islam.

Why didn't Moses say yes I can do it,  but right away realized he needed a helper to convey better? Again, not due to lack of confidence or ability to convey or speak, but the circumstances.

So this is one of the themes in Quran and shows wisdom with respect to succession.

And while Aaron name appears 20 times in Quran (Suratal Taha is 20th Surah as well), his name beside Moses appears exactly twelve times.




Love of the family of Yaseen is the light of the heavens and the earth.

Farid

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And while Aaron name appears 20 times in Quran (Suratal Taha is 20th Surah as well), his name beside Moses appears exactly twelve times.

.

zaid_ibn_ali

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And while Aaron name appears 20 times in Quran (Suratal Taha is 20th Surah as well), his name beside Moses appears exactly twelve times.

??
.

Abu Muhammad

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And while Aaron name appears 20 times in Quran (Suratal Taha is 20th Surah as well), his name beside Moses appears exactly twelve times.

??
.

😃

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I see the only thing that sparked your interest was the "12" fact. May God guide our hearts.

On this topic:

The word Astafa is used 12 verses in its different forms. In one verse it occurs twice.

[2:130] [2:132] [2:247] [3:33] [3:42] - twice. [7:144] [22:75] [27:59] [35:32] [37:153] [39:4]

Imam is also used 12 times.

[2:124] [9:12] [11:17] [15:79] [17:71] [21:72] [25:74] [28:5] [28:41] [32:23] [36:12] [46:12]

Qurba is used 12 times in Quran, in one verse twice:

http://www.holyquran.net/cgi-bin/qsearch.pl?st=%C7%E1%DE%D1%C8%EC&sc=1&sv=1&ec=114&ev=6&ae=a&mw=&alef=ON

Musa and Haroun names mentioned in the same verse occurs 12 Times while Haroun names occurs 20 times. Suratal Taha where Haroun name is mentioned before Musa in "Lord of Harun and Musa" is the 20th Surah while the other two places, Musa is mentioned first.

http://www.holyquran.net/cgi-bin/qsearch.pl?st=%E5%C7%D1%E6%E4&sc=1&sv=1&ec=114&ev=6&ae=&mw=r&alef=ON

Given the promise to Ibrahim about Imammate in his offspring, it is noteworthy to mention as well Ismael name occurs 12 times in Quran:

2:125 2:127 2:133 2:136 2:140 3:84 4:163 6:86 14:39 19:54 21:85 38:48

Verse 12 of Suratal Maeeda reminds of 12 Captains in bani-Israel.

Imam Ali was appointed on the 12th month of the year.

Then you have this topic:

http://www.shiachat.com/forum/topic/235033793-confirmation-of-ghayba-of-12th-imam/#comment-2872658

Which has "unseen/that which is hidden" in Quran 12 times. And that associated with muflihoon, that word muflihoon takes place 12 times in Quran.

Love of the family of Yaseen is the light of the heavens and the earth.

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In this thread, a lot has been proven, but you guys are too stubborn to accept the truth, you are too immersed in your own idols.
Love of the family of Yaseen is the light of the heavens and the earth.

Farid

Please remind the audience why Allah hid these codes in the Quran instead of just saying that Ali is an Imam.

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Please remind the audience why Allah hid these codes in the Quran instead of just saying that Ali is an Imam.

That's another topic, I have some hypothesis for many reasons why he didn't say in the way you guys you are saying he should have. And the theme of Aaron to Moses with respect to Mohammad and Ali is very clear with a little reflection and a heart that doesn't try to impose on the Quran but seeks its explanation.
Love of the family of Yaseen is the light of the heavens and the earth.

Farid

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And the theme of Aaron to Moses with respect to Mohammad and Ali is very clear with a little reflection and a heart that doesn't try to impose on the Quran but seeks its explanation.

You do realize that some of the top Shia scholars of ideology refer to it as nass khafi, right?

You see, you CAN argue that it is "clear" to you, but you cannot say that it is clear to everyone, especially when the greatest thinkers in Shias, who have all the reasons to be biased, disagree with you.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2017, 10:15:15 PM by Farid »

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And the theme of Aaron to Moses with respect to Mohammad and Ali is very clear with a little reflection and a heart that doesn't try to impose on the Quran but seeks its explanation.

You do realize that some of the top Shia scholars of ideology refer to it as nass khafi, right?

You see, you CAN argue that it is "clear" to you, but you cannot say that it is clear to everyone, especially when the greatest thinkers in Shias, who have all the reasons to be biased, disagree with you.

I'm sorry they can say what they want, people don't have to listen to what they say let alone them having authority by their words. Ahadith of Ahlulbayt say "the firm/clear signs" is Ali and the Imams, and they understood the Quran better.

It is hidden in the sense the Jibt (sorcery) hides the truth as it did in the past, but not due Quran being unclear, but hearts trying to impose an interpretation on it and people of envious rebellious hearts turning away from people of reason and clinging to what Satan casts. When people are sincere to themselves,  even if a book is passed with traces of its teachings mixed with fabrications, they can with reflection come to the truth because there is always enough light for those who seek the truth. That is one of the arguments of Quran, that if you search the clues in the Bible and reflect over what Quran has stated regarding those clues,   then the truth that was emphasized in the past also becomes clear.

You got to really stop pulling this you can't say because some of your scholars have said this and that. You know my scholars are just regular people to me, they don't hold weight,  the ahadith they narrate holds weight if gives me insight to Quran, and if I don't find in Quran, it has no weight till it does, and if I find the Quran rejects it, it is rejected as well.
Love of the family of Yaseen is the light of the heavens and the earth.

Farid

So major Shia scholars like Al Murtadha were just too stupid to realize that Hadith Al Manzila is a clear sign?

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So major Shia scholars like Al Murtadha were just too stupid to realize that Hadith Al Manzila is a clear sign?

Hadithal Manzila will be a clear sign in the future as it is today and is it was in the past no matter what other scholars say.

Lack of reflection by someone is never proof that something with a just little reflection by someone else is false.

"O God we followed our great men and our leaders so they misguided us from the path" will not be an excuse for anyone and especially won't be an excuse for Shiites who have numerous ahadith warning them the dangers of this path and emphasize on the true recitation of Quran in this regard.



Love of the family of Yaseen is the light of the heavens and the earth.

Link

Another point I have not mentioned is the role of the Sunnah. Everything Mohammad (pbuh&hf) says should be seen as him manifesting or explaining Quran.

This him explaining why Aaron to Moses has been emphasized throughout Quran.  It designates its purpose, and that is how Sunnah and Quran work, they work together.

We saw how Quran explains itself in this regard, but, the Sunnah explicitly manifests this theme and says "...you have the position to me as Aaron does to Moses..."

The explicit words of the Prophet should not be diminished, they are explaining Quran. The fact he emphasized on this theme to Ali, we should try to see if Quran verifies this theme.

And we see not only does Quran verify this hadith, but it designates and emphasizes on Wilayah of Ali and the Imams to be the position of "the name of God" in two verses with respect to the straightness of Mohammad's heart and implicitly elsewhere in Quran.

And it goes well and verifies the "twelve Captains" and "by the name of God is it's going forth" and the many verses about ships in Quran.


Love of the family of Yaseen is the light of the heavens and the earth.

Farid

So major Shia scholars like Al Murtadha were just too stupid to realize that Hadith Al Manzila is a clear sign?

Hadithal Manzila will be a clear sign in the future as it is today and is it was in the past no matter what other scholars say.

Lack of reflection by someone is never proof that something with a just little reflection by someone else is false.


You're pretty full of yourself for suggesting that you reflect more over Imamah than Al Murtadha who wrote at least four volumes on the subject.

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You're pretty full of yourself for suggesting that you reflect more over Imamah than Al Murtadha who wrote at least four volumes on the subject.

Better be full of my self in relying on God's guidance without other authorities than be insincere to Quran and Sunnah, and thereby turning away from the door of God and the navigators it gives authority to and negates authority from everyone else, let I go to where there is nowhere to truly turn to but misguidance tricking oneself one is following great people and great leaders all while all the purity attributed to them and authority has no an iota of proof from God and instead Quran has said the opposite.



Love of the family of Yaseen is the light of the heavens and the earth.

Abu Muhammad

You're pretty full of yourself for suggesting that you reflect more over Imamah than Al Murtadha who wrote at least four volumes on the subject.

Better be full of my self in relying on God's guidance without other authorities than be insincere to Quran and Sunnah, and thereby turning away from the door of God and the navigators it gives authority to and negates authority from everyone else, let I go to where there is nowhere to truly turn to but misguidance tricking oneself one is following great people and great leaders all while all the purity attributed to them and authority has no an iota of proof from God and instead Quran has said the opposite.

.

zaid_ibn_ali

Do the names of Moses & Aaron appear 12 times together?
Different english Quran searches were giving me different numbers & not 12.

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Do the names of Moses & Aaron appear 12 times together?
Different english Quran searches were giving me different numbers & not 12.

Do the names of Moses & Aaron appear 12 times together?
Different english Quran searches were giving me different numbers & not 12.

All 20 times are here.  http://www.holyquran.net/cgi-bin/qsearch.pl?st=%E5%C7%D1%E6%E4&sv=1&ec=114&ev=6&ae=&mw=r&alef=ON;sc=1&

I recounted the times they appear together, and it is twelve. 

وقال لهم نبيهم إن آية ملكه أن يأتيكم التابوت فيه سكينة من ربكم وبقية مما ترك آل موسى وآل هارون تحمله الملائكة إن في ذلك لآية لكم إن كنتم مؤمنين

1.

نا أوحينا إليك كما أوحينا إلى نوح والنبيين من بعده وأوحينا إلى إبراهيم وإسماعيل وإسحاق ويعقوب والأسباط وعيسى وأيوب ويونس وهارون وسليمان وآتينا داوود زبورا

Not both.

ووهبنا له إسحاق ويعقوب كلا هدينا ونوحا هدينا من قبل ومن ذريته داوود وسليمان وأيوب ويوسف وموسى وهارون وكذلك نجزي المحسنين

2.

رب موسى وهارون

3.

وواعدنا موسى ثلاثين ليلة وأتممناها بعشر فتم ميقات ربه أربعين ليلة وقال موسى لأخيه هارون اخلفني في قومي وأصلح ولا تتبع سبيل المفسدين

4.

ثم بعثنا من بعدهم موسى وهارون إلى فرعون وملئه بآياتنا فاستكبروا وكانوا قوما مجرمين

5.

يا أخت هارون ما كان أبوك امرأ سوء وما كانت أمك بغيا


not both

ووهبنا له من رحمتنا أخاه هارون نبيا

not both

هارون أخي

not both

فألقي السحرة سجدا قالوا آمنا برب هارون وموسى

6.

ولقد قال لهم هارون من قبل يا قوم إنما فتنتم به وإن ربكم الرحمن فاتبعوني وأطيعوا أمري

not both

قال يا هارون ما منعك إذ رأيتهم ضلوا

not both

ولقد آتينا موسى وهارون الفرقان وضياء وذكرا للمتقين

7

ثم أرسلنا موسى وأخاه هارون بآياتنا وسلطان مبين

8

ولقد آتينا موسى الكتاب وجعلنا معه أخاه هارون وزيرا

9

ويضيق صدري ولا ينطلق لساني فأرسل إلى هارون

not both

رب موسى وهارون

10

وأخي هارون هو أفصح مني لسانا فأرسله معي ردءا يصدقني إني أخاف أن يكذبون

not both

ولقد مننا على موسى وهارون

11

سلام على موسى وهارون

12
Love of the family of Yaseen is the light of the heavens and the earth.

Hani

Can "god's guidance" be more obscure?

Sulayman (as) is supposed to have succeeded Dawud (as), would I find their names together 12 times?

Also, you're talking about parallels, can you tell me how Musa (as) & Harun (as) being mentioned together 12 times is a parallel to Muhammad (saw) & `Ali?

It's only a parallel if it happens that Muhammad (saw) & `Ali are ALSO mentioned in the Qur'an 12 times. Otherwise, it's not a "parallel".
عَلامَةُ أَهْلِ الْبِدَعِ الْوَقِيعَةُ فِي أَهْلِ الأَثَرِ. وَعَلامَةُ الْجَهْمِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُشَبِّهَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الْقَدَرِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُجَبِّرَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الزَّنَادِقَةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ الأَثَرِ حَشْوِيَّةً

Religion = simple & clear

 

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