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The two 'feet' of Allah are between his creation?

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whoaretheshia

Re: The two 'feet' of Allah are between his creation?
« Reply #40 on: November 30, 2017, 01:21:25 PM »
I quoted some Imams of Ahlusunnah who defined the orthodox Ahlus-Sunnah. Seems this didn't go down your throat .

The majority of Ahlus-Sunnah scholars respect the same Imams and interpret their statements differently to you. Historically, they have comprised of the majority of your scholars past to present and they are the orthodox and dominant schools of Aqeedah known as the Ashari and Maturidi. To claim they are innovators, deviants, misguided in the most fundamental concept in Islam (Tawheed and understanding Allah) is going to be very problematic given the majority of the Sunni follow those schools of Aqeedah.

From Hanafi Fiqh channel and others:









« Last Edit: November 30, 2017, 01:23:19 PM by whoaretheshia »
"I leave behind for you two weighty things, which if you hold onto, you will never go astray...the Quran and my Ahlulbayt" - Musnad Ibn Rawayh (al-Albani classes Isnaad *independently* as Hasan, and Matn as authentic, as does Al-Arnaut, Ibn Hajar and others.

Noor-us-Sunnah

Re: The two 'feet' of Allah are between his creation?
« Reply #41 on: November 30, 2017, 02:32:51 PM »
The majority of Ahlus-Sunnah scholars respect the same Imams and interpret their statements differently .

The quotes I provided about orthodox Ahlusunnah  are clear and explicit, which leave no room for taweel other than its apparent meaning. And most of these quotes are from the Salaf and classical scholars not the muta'akhireen.

whoaretheshia

Re: The two 'feet' of Allah are between his creation?
« Reply #42 on: November 30, 2017, 03:16:28 PM »
The quotes I provided about orthodox Ahlusunnah  are clear and explicit, which leave no room for taweel other than its apparent meaning. And most of these quotes are from the Salaf and classical scholars not the muta'akhireen.

I am not here to debate you on this, because i actually agree that traditions in Bukhari and other books support the Salafi's. If i would try to argue against that i would lose because i actually side with how the Salafi's interpret their hadith books (but not the Quran).

However, i am here to tell you that the majority of this Ummah, and the majority of the Sunni, oppose you in this, declare you deviants in Aqeedah, and have interpreted them in a different light as they believe if they interpreted it like yourself, it would amount to enormous deviance in Aqeedah. I actually agree, your Hadith books have these beliefs which the majority of Orthodox Muslims can not handle, and so interpret it away.  Suffice to say that your belief is that the majority of Sunnis follow a deviant Aqeedah in the most fundamental concept of all: Tawheed. That my brother, opens the door to some difficult problems.
"I leave behind for you two weighty things, which if you hold onto, you will never go astray...the Quran and my Ahlulbayt" - Musnad Ibn Rawayh (al-Albani classes Isnaad *independently* as Hasan, and Matn as authentic, as does Al-Arnaut, Ibn Hajar and others.

Noor-us-Sunnah

Re: The two 'feet' of Allah are between his creation?
« Reply #43 on: December 01, 2017, 03:23:46 AM »
............
« Last Edit: December 01, 2017, 03:34:26 AM by Noor-us-Sunnah »

Noor-us-Sunnah

Re: The two 'feet' of Allah are between his creation?
« Reply #44 on: December 01, 2017, 03:37:09 AM »
However, i am here to tell you that the majority of this Ummah, and the majority of the Sunni, oppose you in this, declare you deviants in Aqeedah, and have interpreted them in a different light as they believe if they interpreted it like yourself, it would amount to enormous deviance in Aqeedah. I actually agree, your Hadith books have these beliefs which the majority of Orthodox Muslims can not handle, and so interpret it away.  Suffice to say that your belief is that the majority of Sunnis follow a deviant Aqeedah in the most fundamental concept of all: Tawheed. That my brother, opens the door to some difficult problems.

Its disappointing that, I have to re-educate you on the majority card you keep bringing up. I answered this in the earlier posts, seems that went over your head.

The Prophet Muhammed (May the Peace and Blessings of Allah be upon him) also said: “Indeed the people of the Book before you split into seventy-two sects. And this nation will split into seventy-three sects, seventy-two are in the Fire and one in Paradise”. And in another narration, “All are in the Fire except one.” It was asked: Who is that one? He replied, “That which I and my Companions are upon” Related by at-Tirmidhi (5/62) and al-Haakim (1/128). It has been authenticated by al-Haafidh al-Iraaqee in Takhreejul-Ihyaa (3/199) and al-Albaanee authenticated it.

Shia Hadeeth:

Similarly, we read in Shia book of Shiekh Sadooq:

Prophet (saw) said “The Ummah will be divided into 73 sects , all of them will go to hell except one”. He was asked “Which sect is that one”. Prophet (peace be upon him) said “That is the one on which I and my companions (ashaab) are”(Shia book, Ma’ani Al Akhbar, Page 370) .

As per the hadeeth of Prophet(saws) which is present in both Sunni and Shia books, out of 73 sects of Islam, only one will enter Jannah, the rest will enter hell-fire. And the one which will enter Jannah will be the one who follows Prophet(SAWS) and Sahaba(RA). 72 sects out of 73 from the Ummah are majority. So here is food for thought to figure out which one is the saved sect. Hence, keep the unacademic and childish argument of majority being against Salafi Aqeedah on the side. The beliefs of Salafis which you try criticize out of ignorance, Salafis can prove them from AUTHENTIC Prophetic ahadeeth or the reports of Sahaba(RA), as you yourself affirmed. Alhamdulillah.
« Last Edit: December 01, 2017, 03:43:16 AM by Noor-us-Sunnah »

muslim720

Re: The two 'feet' of Allah are between his creation?
« Reply #45 on: December 01, 2017, 04:42:10 AM »
Let me just make it clear brother, this is not the view accepted by the Salafi-Athari scholars, but is an interpretation that leans heavily towards the Ashari and Maturidi, who the owners of this website consider to be deviants in Aqeedah and innovators.

This is my third attempt by me to have you acknowledge, and respond to, the verses I shared and I will add one more as bonus.

Allah (swt) says, "He said: O Iblis! What hindereth thee from falling prostrate before that which I have created with both My hands?  Art thou too proud or art thou of the high exalted?"  (38:75)

He (swt) also says, "And they esteem not Allah as He hath the right to be esteemed, when the whole earth is His handful on the Day of Resurrection, and the heavens are rolled in His right hand.  Glorified is He and High Exalted from all that they ascribe as partner (unto Him)."  (39:67)

"The Day that the shin shall be laid bare, and they shall be summoned to bow in adoration, but they shall not be able"  (68:42)

How do you explain these?  And please, I beseech you, no side-tracking.
"Our coward ran from those in authority" - Iceman (admitting the truth regarding his 12th Imam)

whoaretheshia

Re: The two 'feet' of Allah are between his creation?
« Reply #46 on: June 11, 2019, 03:40:22 PM »
This is my third attempt by me to have you acknowledge, and respond to, the verses I shared and I will add one more as bonus.

Allah (swt) says, "He said: O Iblis! What hindereth thee from falling prostrate before that which I have created with both My hands?  Art thou too proud or art thou of the high exalted?"  (38:75)

He (swt) also says, "And they esteem not Allah as He hath the right to be esteemed, when the whole earth is His handful on the Day of Resurrection, and the heavens are rolled in His right hand.  Glorified is He and High Exalted from all that they ascribe as partner (unto Him)."  (39:67)

"The Day that the shin shall be laid bare, and they shall be summoned to bow in adoration, but they shall not be able"  (68:42)

How do you explain these?  And please, I beseech you, no side-tracking.

Salam,

Just to help me understand your position better, which method do you use when it comes to these verses:

1. Affirm them literally (Allah literally has two hands, literally has a shin, but his hands and shin are not like ours)

2. Deny Allah literally has hands or a shin, and consign the full meaning (Tafweed) to Allah, the Almighty?
"I leave behind for you two weighty things, which if you hold onto, you will never go astray...the Quran and my Ahlulbayt" - Musnad Ibn Rawayh (al-Albani classes Isnaad *independently* as Hasan, and Matn as authentic, as does Al-Arnaut, Ibn Hajar and others.

muslim720

Re: The two 'feet' of Allah are between his creation?
« Reply #47 on: June 11, 2019, 03:59:33 PM »
Salam,

Just to help me understand your position better, which method do you use when it comes to these verses:

1. Affirm them literally (Allah literally has two hands, literally has a shin, but his hands and shin are not like ours)

2. Deny Allah literally has hands or a shin, and consign the full meaning (Tafweed) to Allah, the Almighty?

Wa alaykum as salaam wa rahmatullah,

Two issues: you have managed to avoid my request (to account for certain Qur'anic verses) thrice and your use of the word, "literally".

Literally, our belief has been summarized in At-Tawhid by Al-Qummi and Bihar-ul-Anwar which you ignored so here it goes once again.

(Chain) Abbasi said: “I said to him – it’s mean to Abul Hasan (alaihi salam) : “May I be your ransom, some of your mawaliya ordered me to ask your about issue”. He asked: “And who is that?”. I said: “al-Hasan ibn Sahl”. He said: “And what is issue about?”. I said: “About Tawhid”. He asked: “And what about tawhid?”  I said: “Question you about Allah, is He jism or not jism?”. And he (imam) said to me: “People in question of tawhid divided in 3 mazahib. (1) Mazhab isbat bi tashbih (accept and likening), (2) mazhab nafyi (rejection) and (3) mazhab isbat bila tashbih (accept without likening) . And mazhab isbat bi tashbih isn’t permitted, and mazhab an-nafyi isn’t permitted, the (correct) way in the 3-d mazhab isbat bila tashbih(accept without likening)”. See also “Biharul anwar” 3/304.

Likening the attributes of Allah (swt), or inserting our own definition or interpretation, is as problematic as denying them.  We do neither, however, Shias claim that when Allah (swt) He descends, for example, His Mercy descends, etc.  That is likening (insertion of your own interpretation) which is deemed impermissible by your "infallible" Imam (ra).

Now that our position has been clarified more times than I can count, please account for the following verses and tell us how you interpret them.  This is my fourth request.

Allah (swt) says, "He said: O Iblis! What hindereth thee from falling prostrate before that which I have created with both My hands?  Art thou too proud or art thou of the high exalted?"  (38:75)

He (swt) also says, "And they esteem not Allah as He hath the right to be esteemed, when the whole earth is His handful on the Day of Resurrection, and the heavens are rolled in His right hand.  Glorified is He and High Exalted from all that they ascribe as partner (unto Him)."  (39:67)

"The Day that the shin shall be laid bare, and they shall be summoned to bow in adoration, but they shall not be able"  (68:42)
"Our coward ran from those in authority" - Iceman (admitting the truth regarding his 12th Imam)

 

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