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True Leadership vs False leadership...

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Abu Muhammad

Re: True Leadership vs False leadership...
« Reply #60 on: March 18, 2017, 03:41:29 PM »
Now the Quran elabroates that in fact the wage in 42:23 is in fact taking a path to God (25:57).

This makes sense only when the near kin of Mohammad are a means to God, and are also a means to loving humanity and God in the right manner.

Where does in those ayahs asking us to take near kin of Muhammad s.a.w. as means to Allah? You are just following your own desire here. Putting a meaning into ayahs which don't have the meaning you intended.


Remember, we have to recognize God as he is. Not as we simply imagine him to be nor what we simply desire him to be nor what non-appointed leaders teach us he is!

Questions:
1. I'm following Muhammad s.a.w. Are you saying he s.a.w. is not appointed by Allah?

2. I have asked this question before but you avoided to answer. So, I ask again. You keep on repeating we need to follow appointed leader chosen by Allah. Who is the appointed leader that you are following? Enlighten me…

Link

Re: True Leadership vs False leadership...
« Reply #61 on: March 18, 2017, 03:51:37 PM »

Quote
Remember, we have to recognize God as he is. Not as we simply imagine him to be nor what we simply desire him to be nor what non-appointed leaders teach us he is!

Questions:
1. I'm following Muhammad s.a.w. Are you saying he s.a.w. is not appointed by Allah?

2. I have asked this question before but you avoided to answer. So, I ask again. You keep on repeating we need to follow appointed leader chosen by Allah. Who is the appointed leader that you are following? Enlighten me…

1. You associate leaders who are not appointed by God with Mohammad. Unless you are willing to say that non-appointed leaders should not be followed, my point stands.

2. I follow the family of reminder outwardly and what I do inwardly is not your concern.

Love of the family of Yaseen is the light of the heavens and the earth.

Link

Re: True Leadership vs False leadership...
« Reply #62 on: March 18, 2017, 04:04:40 PM »
Where does in those ayahs asking us to take near kin of Muhammad s.a.w. as means to Allah?

In the verse 42:23 with 25:57. You can play coin but it's clear that verse is saying if you want to appreciate the message that God brought, then love the family of Mohammad (and is implied this is due to them being means to God) and that is way to do goodness (as implied by the beginning of 42:23 and the end).

If you appreciate Islam as is you ought to love the family of Mohammad, if you want to show gratitude to God and the Messenger, you should love the family of Mohammad, and there are so many verses reminding of this wage all in context of Surahs emphasize to follow and cling to and hold on to chosen leaders and guides!

The way to show gratitude to who sent as a mercy to humanity is to love his near kin! That is a huge message! And most verses reminding of the wage emphasize it's a reminder to the whole worlds! And not only that, but it's a path to God!

The family of the reminder and the reminder being Mohammad then makes sense in light of that!
« Last Edit: March 18, 2017, 04:06:23 PM by Link »
Love of the family of Yaseen is the light of the heavens and the earth.

Link

Re: True Leadership vs False leadership...
« Reply #63 on: March 21, 2017, 10:37:06 PM »
O beautiful One (Al-Hussain)
Foreseen through heart's ears,
Seeing the revelation as it's meant to be,
You knew the light of Islam the world would not see,
They would know things like we cannot drink beer,
But not the justice, peace, and enlightenment meant for all humanity,
They would know we are to eat halal,
Not eat pork and that our women must wear the Hijaab,
That we aren't allowed to dance and have a ball,
But not understand the reasons at all,
You knew you were most probably our last chance,
That if none of the nine leaders from your offspring were supported as they are meant to be supported,
The connection would not be established,
The vision of Quran distorted,
It's pages urinated by dark magic on the hearts,
Spoken and recited east and west,
The world would never know,
The justice that was best,
Had you only been loved,
Accepted and recognized,
You saw the light of Islam fading,
As you were killed,
You took a risk,
In hope to stop this tragedy,
You saw it all, the chaos,
The likes of Trump coming to power,
The sanctions, the new world order
You knew the Illuminati very well,
The killers of the Prophets of old,
It's no conspiracy theory to me,
I will either die young or see a long life unfold,
Or something between that who knows?
My help I promise,
You once said "Is there a helper who can help us!".
I am at your service,
So empower my sword of my soul,
With rains from your sword,
And write words on it, that open thousand of the other words,
And help me help you,
And your great grandson,
Save this world from the darkness that the dark one wishes to unleash to humanity,
Help me be a helper of the book,
That will usher hope, be a mercy, and be the cure!
At your service O Forever King and Leader, O beautiful One, O Hussain!
Love of the family of Yaseen is the light of the heavens and the earth.

Abu Muhammad

Re: True Leadership vs False leadership...
« Reply #64 on: March 22, 2017, 12:40:40 PM »

Quote
Remember, we have to recognize God as he is. Not as we simply imagine him to be nor what we simply desire him to be nor what non-appointed leaders teach us he is!

Questions:
1. I'm following Muhammad s.a.w. Are you saying he s.a.w. is not appointed by Allah?

2. I have asked this question before but you avoided to answer. So, I ask again. You keep on repeating we need to follow appointed leader chosen by Allah. Who is the appointed leader that you are following? Enlighten me…

1. You associate leaders who are not appointed by God with Mohammad. Unless you are willing to say that non-appointed leaders should not be followed, my point stands.

2. I follow the family of reminder outwardly and what I do inwardly is not your concern.


1. Are you incapable of reading properly? I said I follow Muhammad s.a.w., the greatest of all imams including yours.

2. Who are the family of Reminder you claimed you follow outwardly?

Abu Muhammad

Re: True Leadership vs False leadership...
« Reply #65 on: March 22, 2017, 12:55:08 PM »
Where does in those ayahs asking us to take near kin of Muhammad s.a.w. as means to Allah?

In the verse 42:23 with 25:57. You can play coin but it's clear that verse is saying if you want to appreciate the message that God brought, then love the family of Mohammad (and is implied this is due to them being means to God) and that is way to do goodness (as implied by the beginning of 42:23 and the end).

If you appreciate Islam as is you ought to love the family of Mohammad, if you want to show gratitude to God and the Messenger, you should love the family of Mohammad, and there are so many verses reminding of this wage all in context of Surahs emphasize to follow and cling to and hold on to chosen leaders and guides!

The way to show gratitude to who sent as a mercy to humanity is to love his near kin! That is a huge message! And most verses reminding of the wage emphasize it's a reminder to the whole worlds! And not only that, but it's a path to God!

The family of the reminder and the reminder being Mohammad then makes sense in light of that!

I'm using your very own words (almost) in another thread in replying to your post above:

"We know you guys can magically interpret everything away and deny twisted it.

That's nothing new."

Link

Re: True Leadership vs False leadership...
« Reply #66 on: March 22, 2017, 01:48:34 PM »
The hadiths from the Prophet as well as the 12 Imams all confirm these interpretations, but Quran itself protects itself.

It's time to submit and accept the truth with peace and no longer fight, but embrace.

Love of the family of Mohammad will only teach you and make you see. Don't be afraid to embrace the Captains that sail by the name of God, the ones who succeeded the founding Captain and Seal of Prophets with regards to his leadership.

There is no harm.  I know you can do it.  It might look like you are giving up honor, but you are not, you will only gain it.
Love of the family of Yaseen is the light of the heavens and the earth.

Abu Muhammad

Re: True Leadership vs False leadership...
« Reply #67 on: March 22, 2017, 03:44:01 PM »
The hadiths from the Prophet as well as the 12 Imams all confirm these interpretations, but Quran itself protects itself.

It's time to submit and accept the truth with peace and no longer fight, but embrace.

Love of the family of Mohammad will only teach you and make you see. Don't be afraid to embrace the Captains that sail by the name of God, the ones who succeeded the founding Captain and Seal of Prophets with regards to his leadership.

There is no harm.  I know you can do it.  It might look like you are giving up honor, but you are not, you will only gain it.


Why should I follow something that has no CLEAR basis in the Quran? As you have proven yourself above, the best you could do was just giving IMPLIED  i.e. UNCLEAR meaning (and TWISTED too). All IMPLIED  i.e. UNCLEAR meaning and nothing is CLEAR.

Whereas we Sunnis, have CLEAR basis from the Quran to follow Muhammad Al-Mustafa s.a.w. as I have shown you some time ago.

So, why should I go into TWISTED and UNCLEAR (aka IMPLIED) path when the CLEAR path has already been laid infront of me?
« Last Edit: March 22, 2017, 03:45:40 PM by Abu Muhammad »

Hani

Re: True Leadership vs False leadership...
« Reply #68 on: March 22, 2017, 04:22:01 PM »
The hadiths from the Prophet as well as the 12 Imams all confirm these interpretations, but Quran itself protects itself.

It's time to submit and accept the truth with peace and no longer fight, but embrace.

Love of the family of Mohammad will only teach you and make you see. Don't be afraid to embrace the Captains that sail by the name of God, the ones who succeeded the founding Captain and Seal of Prophets with regards to his leadership.

There is no harm.  I know you can do it.  It might look like you are giving up honor, but you are not, you will only gain it.


Dude, are you alright?

Also YOU need to Understand that it's not an issue of stubbornness, if you stubbornly insist that we accept your beliefs we won't necessarily accept them. People accept truth with evidence, you've been doing a poor job there. People on this forum have shifted major opinions they had multiple times due to further research and evidence.

Let me show you a few opinion shifts I had just these past couple of months:

- I shifted from libertarian to determinist. (Based on Qur'anic and philosophical evidence)
- I shifted from believing that `Ali was pleased when Abu Bakr received Caliphate to `Ali being upset due to him thinking he had more right due to his kinship. (Based on sound historical evidence so I wrote a whole book on it)
- I shifted my opinion from all prophets not leaving inheritance to only our prophet (saw) not leaving inheritance. (Based on thorough research of prophetic traditions and early opinions)
- I am currently researching the eternity of hell-fire, the fate of a suicide sinner and a few other issues that could lead to shifts in opinions I previously held.

What's to stop me in believing in your hidden Imam is the poor nature of your evidence, the intellectual argument is very weak (you guys think it's strong but it ain't), the Qur'anic interpretation is far-fetched and unclear, the Sunnah evidence is the weakest and it actually proves the opposite of your belief.

So for the love of God, stop acting like you have reached enlightenment and you wish to share this clear truth which we are all denying because we have some beef with our beloved Prophet's (saw) family. We have nothing for them except love and respect, so know that your case is very weak and your sect has a dark history.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2017, 04:27:04 PM by Hani »
عَلامَةُ أَهْلِ الْبِدَعِ الْوَقِيعَةُ فِي أَهْلِ الأَثَرِ. وَعَلامَةُ الْجَهْمِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُشَبِّهَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الْقَدَرِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُجَبِّرَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الزَّنَادِقَةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ الأَثَرِ حَشْوِيَّةً

Religion = simple & clear

Link

Re: True Leadership vs False leadership...
« Reply #69 on: March 22, 2017, 04:47:11 PM »
The hadiths from the Prophet as well as the 12 Imams all confirm these interpretations, but Quran itself protects itself.

It's time to submit and accept the truth with peace and no longer fight, but embrace.

Love of the family of Mohammad will only teach you and make you see. Don't be afraid to embrace the Captains that sail by the name of God, the ones who succeeded the founding Captain and Seal of Prophets with regards to his leadership.

There is no harm.  I know you can do it.  It might look like you are giving up honor, but you are not, you will only gain it.


Why should I follow something that has no CLEAR basis in the Quran? As you have proven yourself above, the best you could do was just giving IMPLIED  i.e. UNCLEAR meaning (and TWISTED too). All IMPLIED  i.e. UNCLEAR meaning and nothing is CLEAR.

Whereas we Sunnis, have CLEAR basis from the Quran to follow Muhammad Al-Mustafa s.a.w. as I have shown you some time ago.

So, why should I go into TWISTED and UNCLEAR (aka IMPLIED) path when the CLEAR path has already been laid infront of me?


Nothing in the Quran is unclear necessarily, from it comes both unclearness and clear proofs and signs due to our own states.  You know it is of the clear teachings of Quran and sunnah.  Not everyone who reads Quran knows right away but you do know!
Love of the family of Yaseen is the light of the heavens and the earth.

 

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