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6th Imam Says Iblis Has Respite till the Coming of the 12th Imam

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Rationalist

Allah tells Iblis that he has respite until the day of judgement. However, according to 12er Shia belief this is not the case. Instead that time is when the 12th Imam will appear and then kill him.

He said,"My Lord, then reprieve me until the Day they are resurrected."
[ Allah ] said, "So indeed, you are of those reprieved
Until the Day of the time well-known." (Quran 15:36-38)


“Then you are of those who are given respite, till the day whose time is appointed” (15:36-38).
Tafsir:

(Iblis) said: ‘My Lord! Give me respite till the day when they are raised.’ (Allah) said: “Then you are of those who are given respite, till the day whose time is appointed” (15:36-38).

Abu Jaafar Mohammad bin Jarir Al-Tabari narrated through his sanad from Wahab bin Jamee’ who said:

I asked Imam Sadiq (as) about Iblis and “the day whose time is appointed”…

Imam (as) said, “O Wahab! Do you think this refers to the Day of Judgment when Allah resurrects the people?! It does not! Allah gave Iblis respite until the day of the rising of the Qa’em (as), who will hold his (Iblis’) forehead and behead him. This is the meaning of ‘the day whose time is appointed.”

iceman

Re: 6th Imam Says Iblis Has Respite till the Coming of the 12th Imam
« Reply #1 on: April 22, 2018, 12:43:04 PM »
Allah tells Iblis that he has respite until the day of judgement. However, according to 12er Shia belief this is not the case. Instead that time is when the 12th Imam will appear and then kill him.

He said,"My Lord, then reprieve me until the Day they are resurrected."
[ Allah ] said, "So indeed, you are of those reprieved
Until the Day of the time well-known." (Quran 15:36-38)


“Then you are of those who are given respite, till the day whose time is appointed” (15:36-38).
Tafsir:

(Iblis) said: ‘My Lord! Give me respite till the day when they are raised.’ (Allah) said: “Then you are of those who are given respite, till the day whose time is appointed” (15:36-38).

Abu Jaafar Mohammad bin Jarir Al-Tabari narrated through his sanad from Wahab bin Jamee’ who said:

I asked Imam Sadiq (as) about Iblis and “the day whose time is appointed”…

Imam (as) said, “O Wahab! Do you think this refers to the Day of Judgment when Allah resurrects the people?! It does not! Allah gave Iblis respite until the day of the rising of the Qa’em (as), who will hold his (Iblis’) forehead and behead him. This is the meaning of ‘the day whose time is appointed.”


This is what is said first,

"Until the Day of the time well-known."

Then this is said twice, on two different occasions mentioned by you,

"till the day whose time is appointed”

Then you mentioned this,

"I asked Imam Sadiq (as) about Iblis and “the day whose time is appointed"

Basically the Imam was asked about this,

"the day whose time is appointed"

and the Imam replied to that by giving his explanation. So what are you trying to prove here?

This is what your argument is,

"Allah tells Iblis that he has respite until the day of judgement. However, according to 12er Shia belief this is not the case. Instead that time is when the 12th Imam will appear and then kill him."

Where did Allah say that iblis has respite until THE DAY OF JUDGMENT? Where are these words used 'UNTIL THE DAY OF JUDGMENT'?

Rationalist

Re: 6th Imam Says Iblis Has Respite till the Coming of the 12th Imam
« Reply #2 on: April 22, 2018, 04:31:25 PM »


and the Imam replied to that by giving his explanation. So what are you trying to prove here?


Where did Allah say that iblis has respite until THE DAY OF JUDGMENT? Where are these words used 'UNTIL THE DAY OF JUDGMENT'?


What I am understanding here  is its not exactly till the day of judgement. When human history ends, the day of judgement does not necessarily have to start right after. There can be periods after. Allah knows best.

The issues is this narration turns around and says its not at the end of human history, but in the era of the 12th Imam. So the 12er Shia scholars says even after the killing  of Iblis the human history continues. This is where the problem lies.
Remember despite the 12th Imam killing Iblis, there are narrations which state he will be killed by a Jewish woman. So, how does killing Iblis have a purpose? Also, all the imams will return and rule as per beliefs of rajah.

Any explanation to all this detail?


Also, its seems like there is no ijma on this. The 12er Shia mufasir does not have seem to agree with this narration.


Pooya/Ali Commentary 15:37]
Respite was granted to Iblis till the day the trumpet will be blown which will annihilate all living beings including Iblis before the day of judgement.


This makes much more sense....

« Last Edit: April 22, 2018, 04:33:25 PM by Rationalist »

 

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