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Authenticity of this hadith

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Zlatan Ibrahimovic

Authenticity of this hadith
« on: October 07, 2017, 01:37:28 PM »
حدثنا أبو عبيد قال: حدثنا أبو معاوية، عن الأعمش، عن إبراهيم، عن الأسود، عن عمر بن الخطاب، أنه كان يقرأ: (غير المغضوب عليهم وغير الضالين)
محور المقاومة والممانعة

Zlatan Ibrahimovic

Re: Authenticity of this narration
« Reply #1 on: October 07, 2017, 01:38:19 PM »
حدثنا أبو عبيد قال: حدثنا أبو معاوية، عن الأعمش، عن إبراهيم، عن الأسود، عن عمر بن الخطاب، أنه كان يقرأ: (غير المغضوب عليهم وغير الضالين)

What is the authenticity of this narration?
محور المقاومة والممانعة

Zlatan Ibrahimovic

Re: Authenticity of this hadith
« Reply #2 on: October 09, 2017, 06:59:55 AM »
Bump
محور المقاومة والممانعة

Farid

Re: Authenticity of this hadith
« Reply #3 on: October 09, 2017, 09:14:19 AM »
Excuse the late response. It seems authentic to me.

Zlatan Ibrahimovic

Re: Authenticity of this hadith
« Reply #4 on: October 09, 2017, 09:37:48 AM »
Excuse the late response. It seems authentic to me.

So did Umar have a different opinion of how the Surah is supposed to read vs how it's actually written?
محور المقاومة والممانعة

Farid

Re: Authenticity of this hadith
« Reply #5 on: October 09, 2017, 09:51:48 AM »
Limiting the recitation to the rasm was something that occurred during the caliphate of Uthman. Before that, everyone recited in which ever recitation that they felt like, even if it went against the rasm.

Zlatan Ibrahimovic

Re: Authenticity of this hadith
« Reply #6 on: October 09, 2017, 02:11:14 PM »
Limiting the recitation to the rasm was something that occurred during the caliphate of Uthman. Before that, everyone recited in which ever recitation that they felt like, even if it went against the rasm.

Can one do that now?
محور المقاومة والممانعة

Farid

Re: Authenticity of this hadith
« Reply #7 on: October 09, 2017, 05:59:44 PM »
I'm not a faqeeh, so I wouldn't be able to answer you on that one.

Hani

Re: Authenticity of this hadith
« Reply #8 on: October 09, 2017, 07:29:02 PM »
Not a Faqih either but my personal opinion

Certain recitations were known at the time, `Umar could lead people in prayer using that recitation without objection. In our days, people won't comprehend nor is anyone familiar with some of the long lost recitations, I'd assume it would create a problem even though you're technically reciting the same eloquent Qur'an in its same meaning.

Additionally, I would NEVER rely on a singular Hadith no matter how authentic its chain to establish a recitation. We don't want room for error in Qur'anic verses, so unless the recitation is mass reported and taught down from generation to generation like the ones we have now, I wouldn't risk it.
عَلامَةُ أَهْلِ الْبِدَعِ الْوَقِيعَةُ فِي أَهْلِ الأَثَرِ. وَعَلامَةُ الْجَهْمِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُشَبِّهَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الْقَدَرِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُجَبِّرَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الزَّنَادِقَةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ الأَثَرِ حَشْوِيَّةً

Religion = simple & clear

Abu Rumaysah

Re: Authenticity of this hadith
« Reply #9 on: July 08, 2018, 02:47:14 PM »
حدثنا أبو عبيد قال: حدثنا أبو معاوية، عن الأعمش، عن إبراهيم، عن الأسود، عن عمر بن الخطاب، أنه كان يقرأ: (غير المغضوب عليهم وغير الضالين)

I probably would disagree with brothers on ruling.

Narrators upright. But chain would consider weak.

Abu Muawiyah Muhammad ibn Hazim sometimes made tadlis.
Al-Amash famous for his tadlis. Both narrated in ANANA form.

Yes they been contemporaries of their shuyukh, but famous for their tadlis.


Nader Zaveri

Re: Authenticity of this hadith
« Reply #10 on: July 11, 2018, 10:02:53 PM »
I probably would disagree with brothers on ruling.

Narrators upright. But chain would consider weak.

Abu Muawiyah Muhammad ibn Hazim sometimes made tadlis.
Al-Amash famous for his tadlis. Both narrated in ANANA form.

Yes they been contemporaries of their shuyukh, but famous for their tadlis.

One thing to note about al-A`mash and his `an`an, if his `an`an come from his "main" shuyookh, then it is permissible to take it because it is more than likely that he heard it directly. This is the view of scholars of hadith in relation to al-A`mash's tadlees. Ibrahim (al-Nakhi`i) is considered one of the three main Shuyookh of al-A`mash. (see: al-Dhahabi's Mizan al-I`tidal)


حدثنا أبو عبيد قال: حدثنا أبو معاوية، عن الأعمش، عن إبراهيم، عن الأسود، عن عمر بن الخطاب، أنه كان يقرأ: (غير المغضوب عليهم وغير الضالين)

Regarding the hadith in question, the chain is authentic. Although, when reading more into our Shi`a book, it seems as if `Umar was following the Ahl al-Bayt (AS) regarding this narration.

 وقرأ غير الضالين عمر بن الخطاب وروي ذلك عن علي (عليه السلام).
Source:
al-Tabarasi, Majma` al-Bayyan

There are narrations in Tafsir al-Qummi and Tafsir al-`Ayyashi (both are weak) that mention وغير الضالين, as well. The way we have reconciled it is saying that it doesn't change the meaning and that it is more a "ta'wil".

Wallahu A`lim
« Last Edit: July 11, 2018, 10:06:20 PM by Nader Zaveri »

 

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