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Following Marjaas (Twelver Shia debate)

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Soccer

Following Marjaas (Twelver Shia debate)
« on: May 29, 2021, 07:55:04 PM »
Salam

Quran has forbidden humans to attribute purity to anyone rather it's God who manifests who is pure.  The leaders of Arabs before Islam were soothsayers and they use to attribute themselves purity and connection to Angels (who really were Devils who they thought were Angels).  The Quran forbid attributing purity to anyone for humans, but, rather God knows best his servants, and knows how to manifest the pure.

Ayat Tatheer can be saying, the purpose of Quran is to only attribute purity to you Ahlulbayt in the minds of people and no one else really is intended to be purified in the vision of people through it.

This means despite Gabriel and Michael and Prophets all being pure, and Angels pure, the purpose of Quran is really not to attribute purity to Jesus and Mariam (peace be upon them) though it does but to manifest Ahlulbayt (a) are pure, because they are to be followed.

There is also another word that is synonymous with Marjaa, which is Shahr (luminary in knowledge to be turned). Lunar months were called Shahr as a parable from this world, because the moon was as if it provided illumination and so it came to be called that. In some places Shahr definitely means month in Quran for sure.

It happens to  be there is ahadith from Imam Baqir (a) that regarding the Twelve in Surah 9, it refers to the Twelve Imams (a). In this context, if we reflect, it's talking about going into extreme with respect to Prophets like Isa but really inwardly it was due to worshiping scholars and leaders not appointed by God in following them without proof and not holding them accountable for corruption.

Part of that corruption was that their scholars would take money from them and not spend it in the way of God.  The Quran in flow of this says, Indeed the Shuhr with Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) from the day he created the heavens and earth is twelve... what does this mean in respect to previous verses and context?

It means the real luminaries that represented Moses for example, to be turned, were not priests, but Twelve Successors and Captains of the ship of salvation. Jesus' twelve luminaries with him is his predecessors including Moses. 

What does "amatan" then mean here if it's not months? It refers to generic, one Generic guide or founder like Mohammad (s), they attribute Twelve, another they delay his successor in order to put out the number made sacred by God which is Twelve Successors.

What does the four being sacred and this having to do with the upright religion, that is twelve luminaries and four of them being sacred being the upright.  According to the same hadith from Imam Baqir (a), it refers to four of the Imams (a) with the name Ali (a). The name Ali (a) is very sacred, because if we fall short, we don't believe in the reality of God's chosen ones, and if we go ahead of exalting it means we are worshiping them on par with God. This goes well with the discussion of worshiping Jesus and their scholars.

Ahlulbayt (a) are to be exalted but not Worshiped. If Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) is the intended in obedience, and we use Ahlulbayt (a) to reach Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى), Quran is guaranteeing in all times, his religion will be clear in truth, and be upheld, but when we starded adding more Marjas/Shuhr, things goes haywire.

We begin to disobey God and attribute him falsehood to follow leaders not appointed by God. This is why Christians don't see Mohammad (s) who is clear in the Torah and Gospels and even books between have him in there (he is found in the Bible).

The Quran is saying there is but Twelve Marjas in reality to Mohammad (s) and it's always like that with one generic founder or another, and it's disbelief to make it twelve for example with Ahlulbayt (a) of Mohammad (s) but then think the Ahlulbayt (a) of Musa (a) doesn't have Twelve Representatives to him. It's faith to see total consistency in this number and believe in the number twelve.

There is a hadith from the Prophet (s) saying believe in the "number Twelve" and quotes this verse among others.  And in that hadith he talks about it with respect to his twelve Successors (a) and talk about Ali (a) and his Authority.

The hadith from Imam Baqir (a), he takes a great sigh before giving the explanation that "amatan" means Mohammad (s) and Twelve Shuhr is the Twelve Imams (a), and the four sacred is Ali (a). He knows people are so immersed in the propaganda and caught in the Sihr, that this will definitely fall on mostly deaf ears.

It's a warning not to take many leaders after the Prophet (s) to represent him, but rather just twelve, no more, no less. Fatima (a) was also a leader, but she didn't speak everything she knew, but  let Ali (a) lead instead. She did lead and call to Ali (a), so we are allowed calling with knowledge to God and his religion, but this is different in trying to gain followers to refer to you in all matters for enlightenment.

The position of Marjaa - Fatima (a) - withheld herself from it but called to Ali (a).

And it's right to speak and call to God and teach religion, but it's wrong for believers to say reverential follow us (raa-ina).

As for Government, is to be lead by one knowledgeable about God's religion, commands, but this doesn't mean we see him as absolute in knowledge and free from error. It means we pick who we think knows Islam best and has the most wisdom and is most fit in leading government. It also doesn't mean we don't correct him.

There is a hadith from Imam Baqir (a) "beware of leadership and marching behind men", the follower of Imam Baqir (a) says, I am aware of leadership (because Imams (a) always explain this belongs to them) but everything I learned is from marching behind men. The Imam (a) explains what he means and says "it's not as you think, I mean beware of following a person and that accepting everything he says".

We have hadiths about this issue. 

Khamanei (may God protect him) and Nasrallah (God protect him) are two great people. But so many idiots turn away from their political wisdom in the name, "we are free to do taqlid to who we want to and I follow a marjaa against their views". This is a problem Khomeini (God sanctify his secret) didn't address and also took lightly how we can know who is the most knowledgeable or even a sufficient scholar, through Quran and Sunnah, and how we can know they teach it correctly.

I believe in Islamic government to be lead by a knowledgeable person, but we've gone to far, with Marja'ya and I believe Khums hadiths - there are many taking side of what Quran says about it while we follow I believe the hadiths that contradict the Quran.   There is even a chapter that says "for the poor of the muhajareen....", and so when it was just bani-hashim and other non-sense we lie in our hadiths and know it's wrong.

I believe in spending in God's way, but Prophet (s) warned about scholars when money and religion get mixed for a reason. The Quran does the same, the Twelve Suhr is in contrast to the scholars who lead the Jews and Christians astray, just as as 5:55 has verses before and after telling us not take Christian and Jewish scholars as reliable ways of knowing the truth of Torah and Gospels or religion, and then emphasizing on the only Wilayah we have from God.

And it's the same Ulil-Amr (a) verses, it's in contrast with Jewish and Christian scholars envying Ahlulbayt (a), but it says they have no share in the authority and how can they, and how do they deny Ahlulbayt (A) of Mohammad (s) while accepting Ahlulbayt (a) of Ibrahim (a).

Almost everywhere Ahlulbayt (a) authority been designated some sort of contrast is done with misguiding leaders. In fact ,I'm not aware anywhere where this contrast is not done.

In Surah 33 where Ayat Tatheer is found near the end it talks about the Amana which goes back to the Ulil-Amr verses, according to hadiths, this about Wilayah of Ali (a) and so humans like the Bible explained have been oppressive in taking the Wilayah of Ali (a) for themselves. Even heavens ,earth, mountains, all refused to carry it, and feared regarding it, because it's a Wilayah only Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) chooses.

This why the earth doesn't talk to humans, this is why heavens don't talk to humans and attempt to guide them, this is why mountains don't talk humans, everything sees Ahlulbayt (a) and calls back to them, like Angels (a) doing Salawat on Nabi (a).

Yet we have so much supposedly pure knowledgeable leaders now right? And we suppose to refer to them rather then words of Ahlulbayt (a) because Ahlulbayt (a) not here?

Why did Imams (a) leave ahadith, why did their followers literally get maimed and killed to pass on these hadiths, is it for us not to read but just follow Marjaas?

Semi-Taqleed while continuing to learn and take some decisions yourself through Quran and hadiths till you reach full ijtehad is the proper way. Semi-Taqleed as in group of scholars and do your best to follow truth on conjecture, but keep seeking truth and insights till no need of Taqlid

This is the proper path. Also, if you don't know something is part of God's religion, whether all Marjas agree or not, is not excuse to attribute it to God. So we can semi use them, but also must be critical and vigilant where they go wrong.
"Is it so bad, then, to be misunderstood? Pythagoras was misunderstood, and Socrates, and Jesus, and Luther, and Copernicus, and Galileo, and Newton, and every pure and wise spirit that ever took flesh. To be great is to be misunderstood.” ― Ralph Waldo Emerson, Self-Reliance

 

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