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God didn't name us Muslims, he titled us this among titles.

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Soccer

The translations of name is also misleading, God didn't name anyone as Muslims, he titled them as submitters, but all the emphasis on submission was to say, yes, Mohammad (s) has complete authority on you, and you have to follow and obey him, but it's not out of intention to submit to a human nor what he wishes, but rather he is calling to God.

And God understands it looks like we completely submitting to Mohammad (s), so emphasizes, among the titles of the religion of truth, is submitting to God. That is how you look at from one angle.

But what does it mean to submit and accept God's guidance? It means to rise up, believe in God and his light, hold on to the rope of God, follow the leaders appointed by God through clear proof, to fight and strive for your soul, to take with great power the book and sacred teachings, and over come the dark sorcery.

It's just one angle, that we are submitting to God and it's brought always in discussion, of their accusation that Mohammad (s) was a sorcerer trying to gain sway in the land and control and change their ways and instead decide the fate of humans.

It's a place of understanding, say, it seems like Mohammad (s) seeks a reward, but really, the path of God is submission to him, then explains the way to do that to be through his chosen Messengers and books and holding to their light, and God doesn't speak vainly.

He is telling humans, yes, I understand Mohammad (s) looks power hungry as if seeking a personal reward, but really, the chosen families are the means of God towards himself and there is a wisdom.

Ultimately Abraham and Mohammad and his family are titled that as well, to show, they weren't making up **** and getting people to submit to their desires, like rest of humans and Jinn, but rather, were themselves holding to God's light and revelation, and the branches (members of a chosen families) were all submitters to God and means of submission.

And it understand that obeying God and Messenger, looks like what disbelievers would say "will we prostrate to what you command....", and this is hard, to submit your whole soul against your desires to a human that is living.

We can easily do it now with Mohammad (s) only because we can choose a lot now, but when the Mahdi (a) comes, and what he says is truth and insights we must grasp right away and do away with our conceptions, we may become stubborn.

So the trial of submitting to a living guide in the open is not here right now. This is not submission to God through a Messenger, this is following opinions some your own, some from the Messenger, some from God but there is no religion of truth that is submission to God today.

It's hidden among a few dispersed humans who follow the guide of our time and work to help establish justice and enlightenment, but this religion we call Islam is as one Christian person another who wrote what they wrote in pink said, it's unrealistic, Muslims are not on that, and the proof is their is for every possible view of Quran you can have, even if the Quran by that view is contradictory and contradicts itself is found among Muslims.

There is no agreement, not even on Tawheed, not on what consists Nubuwa or Messengerhood or Leadership, it's all disagreed upon, even what Angels are, is disagreed upon, nothing do we agree upon. Nothing.

Don't tell me titling yourself Muslim is useful now. It's not. It's foolishness.

God was pleased with submission as the religion only on certain conditions as explained in the 5th Surah, but people don't understand, so we deviated like Christians and Jews and became of opinions and far away from the path, the light, the illiyin and don't witness the guide in our hearts let alone understand what Quran said regarding him. We are a lost nation blind, blind almost beyond repair because we've become stubborn to our idols created through generations of deception and dark magic upon us.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2020, 01:01:05 AM by Soccer »
"Is it so bad, then, to be misunderstood? Pythagoras was misunderstood, and Socrates, and Jesus, and Luther, and Copernicus, and Galileo, and Newton, and every pure and wise spirit that ever took flesh. To be great is to be misunderstood.” ― Ralph Waldo Emerson, Self-Reliance

Soccer

Re: God didn't name us Muslims, he titled us this among titles.
« Reply #1 on: June 13, 2020, 01:20:41 AM »
"Allah" also is not a name of God, just as "God" is not, just as any sound word is not, but rather, they are titles. God's Name and he did choose one, is that reality connected to him by which it's possible to title him titles and believe in Him and see him, and the context of beautiful names is that. Samuel means God's Name, not God hears. God hears that Ishmael and that's clear, Samuel can mean God heard, but it's sounds like a less eloquent name from Hebrew standpoint that Ishmael which means the same God hears, while Samuel would be due alternative and more clear meaning being name of God less eloquent to assume it means something other then the primary word. So the more apparent thing is that it means "name of God" and this is true regardless if he was named that or not.

Moses means drawn out and he is drawn out from the unseen river of truth to this world, and himself an unseen river, that unseen he is brought out from to this world, it he name of God and Moses manifesting signs and power, all manifest power of God's titles but also his names, titles are words that are dead, not living, ways to refer to God, like reference points to reference points if you know programming.

But the true way to refer to God and point to him, has to be alive, or else "God" is circular. God wasn't born so to be named but created creation in need of knowing him, so the means to know known as the face of God or image of God or name of God or light of God or word of God - those exalted souls, are the way to submit to God.

It's not that we can submit to God without them, it's that it's impossible for God to establish a means because he speaks through veils, and we are a dirty veil, if he spoke through our veil, we would rightfully and God wouldn't expect to assume otherwise, think we going crazy or sorcery upon us or possessed by demons.

But Prophets (a) connect to higher reality and see the trust worthy spirits and see the descent of truth of God's word from highest pen to lowest world and lowest mind, and bring out God's hidden name to the outward, and know him verily well enough to now if they conveyed the truth to all minds and made clear the truth.

They work with revelations and interpret it, and guides come in groups, never alone to die alone and leave the people leaderless, if people are leaderless, something went terrible in history, because miracles are explained in a way, they are meant to say, and be continuous, unless, for some reasons, the first people deny them and cause conditions in which God doesn't send them any longer.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2020, 01:29:03 AM by Soccer »
"Is it so bad, then, to be misunderstood? Pythagoras was misunderstood, and Socrates, and Jesus, and Luther, and Copernicus, and Galileo, and Newton, and every pure and wise spirit that ever took flesh. To be great is to be misunderstood.” ― Ralph Waldo Emerson, Self-Reliance

Mythbuster1

Re: God didn't name us Muslims, he titled us this among titles.
« Reply #2 on: June 18, 2020, 03:09:22 PM »
God was pleased with submission as the religion only on certain conditions as explained in the 5th Surah, but people don't understand, so we deviated like Christians and Jews and became of opinions and far away from the path, the light, the illiyin and don't witness the guide in our hearts let alone understand what Quran said regarding him. We are a lost nation blind, blind almost beyond repair because we've become stubborn to our idols created through generations of deception and dark magic upon us.

You mean YOU deviated and created yourselves false idols through your misunderstanding of the term imam and added false ideas like they can move atoms and they can create astaghfirullah etc etc thereby becoming lost and blind beyond repair (as your nutty posts suggest) because you became too stubborn to your false idols you created through with the help of iblees passed on through generations of deception and using dark theories on verses that have no link to divine Imamate, creating a great work of comedy for generations for us muslims to laugh at.

Soccer

Re: God didn't name us Muslims, he titled us this among titles.
« Reply #3 on: June 18, 2020, 07:54:26 PM »
Verse 42:23 is clear proof for the family of Mohammad.  See my two topics (longer version as well short version).

What makes it unclear, is something supernatural, that doesn't allow you to see God's words by language rules you apply everywhere else.

It's hard I know. With courage, humbleness, and ready to sacrifice for the sake of truth, you can accept their position.
"Is it so bad, then, to be misunderstood? Pythagoras was misunderstood, and Socrates, and Jesus, and Luther, and Copernicus, and Galileo, and Newton, and every pure and wise spirit that ever took flesh. To be great is to be misunderstood.” ― Ralph Waldo Emerson, Self-Reliance

Mythbuster1

Re: God didn't name us Muslims, he titled us this among titles.
« Reply #4 on: June 19, 2020, 02:22:13 PM »
Firstly, when Surah Ash-Shura was revealed at Makkah, Ali and Fatimah had not yet been married and, therefore, there could be no question of their children. As for the children of Abdul Muttalib, they were not all following the Prophet (peace be upon him) but some of them had openly joined with his enemies, and the enmity of Abu Lahab is well known. Second, the kindred of the Prophet (peace be upon him) were not only the children of Abdul Muttalib but he had his kindred among all the families of the Quraish through his mother and his father and his wife Khadijah. In all these clans he had his best supporters as well as his staunch enemies. Third, and this is the most important point, in view of the high position of a Prophet (peace be upon him) from which he starts his mission of inviting the people towards Allah, it does not seem fitting that he would ask the people to love his kindred in return for his services in connection with his great mission. No person of fine taste could imagine that Allah would have taught His Prophet (peace be upon him) such a little thing, and the Prophet would have uttered the same before the Quraish. In the stories that have been narrated of the Prophets in the Quran, we find that a Prophet after Prophet stands up before his people sad says: I do not ask of you any reward: my reward is with Allah, Lord of the worlds. (Surah Younus, Ayat 72); (Surah Houd, Ayats 29, 51); (Surah Ash- Shuara, Ayats 109, 127, 145, 164, l80). In Surah YaSeen the criterion given of a Prophet’s truthfulness is that he gives his invitation without any selfish motive. (verse 21). In the Quran the Prophet (peace be upon him) himself has been made to say again and again words to the effect: I demand no reward from you for this message. (Surah Al-Anaam, Ayat 90); (Surah Yousuf, Ayat 104); (Surah Al-Muminun, Ayat 72); (Surah Al-Furqan, Ayat 57); (Surah Saba, Ayat 47); (Surah Suad, Ayat 86); (Surah At-Toor, Ayat 40); (Surah Al- Qalam, Ayat 46). After this, what could be the occasion for the Prophet (peace be upon him) to tell the people that in return for his service of inviting them to Allah, they should love his relatives. Then it seems all the more irrelevant when we state that the addressees here are the disbelievers and not the believers. The whole discourse, from the beginning to the end, is directed to them. Therefore, there could be no question in this regard of asking the opponents for any reward, for a reward is asked of those who show some appreciation for the services that a person has rendered for them. The disbelievers were not at all appreciative of the Prophet’s (peace be upon him) services. On the contrary, they regarded them as a crime and had turned bitterly hostile to him.

Soccer

Re: God didn't name us Muslims, he titled us this among titles.
« Reply #5 on: June 19, 2020, 10:58:54 PM »
Firstly, when Surah Ash-Shura was revealed at Makkah, Ali and Fatimah had not yet been married and, therefore, there could be no question of their children.

Although kind of irrelevant to this, because, it doesn't matter if they are born or not, it could be a Bushra (good news) like Abraham and Sarah was given. But aside from that,  the greater evidence shows Surahs could be almost all revealed in Madina yet have some Meccan verse or a Surah almost all revealed in Mecca but later a Madina verse was added.  There is nothing irrational about this, because, Quran is dynamically being built. 



Quote
Third, and this is the most important point, in view of the high position of a Prophet (peace be upon him) from which he starts his mission of inviting the people towards Allah, it does not seem fitting that he would ask the people to love his kindred in return for his services in connection with his great mission.


True, if you read my topic, you will see it doesn't state he actually asked a reward.



Quote
No person of fine taste could imagine that Allah would have taught His Prophet (peace be upon him) such a little thing, and the Prophet would have uttered the same before the Quraish. In the stories that have been narrated of the Prophets in the Quran, we find that a Prophet after Prophet stands up before his people sad says: I do not ask of you any reward: my reward is with Allah, Lord of the worlds. (Surah Younus, Ayat 72); (Surah Houd, Ayats 29, 51); (Surah Ash- Shuara, Ayats 109, 127, 145, 164, l80).

This is not the best translation, see my topic for a better translation.



Quote
In Surah YaSeen the criterion given of a Prophet’s truthfulness is that he gives his invitation without any selfish motive. (verse 21). In the Quran the Prophet (peace be upon him) himself has been made to say again and again words to the effect: I demand no reward from you for this message. (Surah Al-Anaam, Ayat 90); (Surah Yousuf, Ayat 104); (Surah Al-Muminun, Ayat 72); (Surah Al-Furqan, Ayat 57); (Surah Saba, Ayat 47); (Surah Suad, Ayat 86); (Surah At-Toor, Ayat 40); (Surah Al- Qalam, Ayat 46).

True, but they are explaining what people accuse him of a personal reward in terms of power, moral landscaping, control, changing society, being important, famous, and also the legacy of Prophets with respect to their family or descendants to be really something that is upon God to do and really not a reward but for our sake, and not reward but really what they see as reward what is that but taking a path to God.

You are partially correct, but not fully perceiving what these verses are saying.

 

Quote
After this, what could be the occasion for the Prophet (peace be upon him) to tell the people that in return for his service of inviting them to Allah, they should love his relatives. Then it seems all the more irrelevant when we state that the addressees here are the disbelievers and not the believers. The whole discourse, from the beginning to the end, is directed to them. Therefore, there could be no question in this regard of asking the opponents for any reward, for a reward is asked of those who show some appreciation for the services that a person has rendered for them. The disbelievers were not at all appreciative of the Prophet’s (peace be upon him) services. On the contrary, they regarded them as a crime and had turned bitterly hostile to him.

You are right the tone and flow is about disbelievers accusation of Mohammad (s) seeking a reward.  The Quran is saying all that you see him as seeking a reward really isn't a reward but a reminder from God and not really a reward but rather upon God to establish and not really a reward but rather what they see as a reward if for who wants, to take a path to God. 42:23 in light of that is saying Mohammad (s) doesn't really seek a reward and all you accuse him of is just in fact recognition of who he and his family are,  he is asking you to but to recognize his position with God, while the Surah goes to elaborate, it's responding to God and in flow, is emphasizes it's not about Ahlulbayt (a) really but the Unique Wilayah of God he establishes through his chosen.


"Is it so bad, then, to be misunderstood? Pythagoras was misunderstood, and Socrates, and Jesus, and Luther, and Copernicus, and Galileo, and Newton, and every pure and wise spirit that ever took flesh. To be great is to be misunderstood.” ― Ralph Waldo Emerson, Self-Reliance

Soccer

Re: God didn't name us Muslims, he titled us this among titles.
« Reply #6 on: June 19, 2020, 11:08:15 PM »
In light of the line in Du'a Dudba would mean understand "the reward of Mohammad (from perspective of disbelievers accusing him of)".

And the Quran shows how Mohammad (s) looked greedy for power fame etc, but really explained how Mohammad (s) as the path to God and showed all they accused him as seeking personal would either way be part of the path of God. The only thing you guys don't recognize is 42:23 flows with all that and is similar, and is saying, all that you accuse of him as seek reward what is that but really just love of the family.

This is why 42:24 says "OR do they say he has forged it..." meaning, it's on the defensive, saying..... Even if not Mohammad (s) and his family (a), then still God would verify the truth with words from him.... and would guide humans through a different kinsfolk, but no doubt, he would guide them.


« Last Edit: June 19, 2020, 11:12:30 PM by Soccer »
"Is it so bad, then, to be misunderstood? Pythagoras was misunderstood, and Socrates, and Jesus, and Luther, and Copernicus, and Galileo, and Newton, and every pure and wise spirit that ever took flesh. To be great is to be misunderstood.” ― Ralph Waldo Emerson, Self-Reliance

Soccer

Re: God didn't name us Muslims, he titled us this among titles.
« Reply #7 on: June 20, 2020, 06:53:38 PM »
Dear Mythbuster,

Now that truth has become apparent,  it's up to you to make that decision,  cut Iblis down, and go forth straight to God for as Surah 42 elaborates, this is a response to God and it's his path, it's not about Shiism or Persians or Iran, this is something about something more bigger, greater, universal, and perpetual.  Let go of hate towards us Shia who have made a mockery of religion and Ahlulbayt (a) and Quran legacy, and let rather love embrace you even if you become like me a stranger, alone, abandoned and misunderstood.



"Is it so bad, then, to be misunderstood? Pythagoras was misunderstood, and Socrates, and Jesus, and Luther, and Copernicus, and Galileo, and Newton, and every pure and wise spirit that ever took flesh. To be great is to be misunderstood.” ― Ralph Waldo Emerson, Self-Reliance

 

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