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Ibn Masud guilty of kufr?

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iceman

Re: Ibn Masud guilty of kufr?
« Reply #40 on: July 31, 2018, 01:19:18 AM »
Yea cos you are a joke and I’ve realised smiley faces get under your skin😜👍

Everthing seems a joke to you or you're just extremely childish. Nothing gets under my skin. Muslim 720 insulted my mother, that didn't get under my skin. Your behaviour and manners lie with you and mine with me.

Mythbuster1

Re: Ibn Masud guilty of kufr?
« Reply #41 on: July 31, 2018, 10:36:19 AM »
Everthing seems a joke to you or you're just extremely childish. Nothing gets under my skin. Muslim 720 insulted my mother, that didn't get under my skin. Your behaviour and manners lie with you and mine with me.

Or your just upset cos you have nothing on divine Imamate and saqifa has ripped up any inkling of divine Imamate theory😉

iceman

Re: Ibn Masud guilty of kufr?
« Reply #42 on: July 31, 2018, 11:50:47 AM »
Or your just upset cos you have nothing on divine Imamate and saqifa has ripped up any inkling of divine Imamate theory😉

There's plenty on Divine Imamate but you don't want to accept it. There's nothing one can do if you DON'T WANT TO....

Saqifa? A coincidental incident and  the immature and hasty decision that a handful of people made can't rip up anything. It's the violence and the intimidating and threatening behaviour that was used to enforce that decision is what ripped up the Ummah and gave the Muslims a bad name and a dark period in history. 😊

Mythbuster1

Re: Ibn Masud guilty of kufr?
« Reply #43 on: July 31, 2018, 02:00:14 PM »
There's plenty on Divine Imamate but you don't want to accept it. There's nothing one can do if you DON'T WANT TO....

Saqifa? A coincidental incident and  the immature and hasty decision that a handful of people made can't rip up anything. It's the violence and the intimidating and threatening behaviour that was used to enforce that decision is what ripped up the Ummah and gave the Muslims a bad name and a dark period in history. 😊

What? Something so important and you haven’t an answer??????😁

All these months and all the posts you made and all the explanations of the ayahs you made your conclusion is.....”you don’t want to”

😀😀😀😃😀😀😀😀😀😀

A great big FAIL👍👍

False divine Imamate is just a figment of your imagination, for you cannot produce any clear evidence from the Quran.

While saqifa and the way of consultation is clear in Quran.

Saqifa really has got you hasn’t it😜 bet you have endless nightmares on saqifa on how that made it through to the Muslims and yet divine Imamate authority is in a cloud of smoke .......Awwwwwwwww
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

Saqifa surpasses divine Imamate in Islam just because consultation is mentioned, divine Imamate is nowhere to be seen as you have problems yourself answering.

iceman

Re: Ibn Masud guilty of kufr?
« Reply #44 on: August 05, 2018, 08:30:30 PM »
What? Something so important and you haven’t an answer??????😁

All these months and all the posts you made and all the explanations of the ayahs you made your conclusion is.....”you don’t want to”

😀😀😀😃😀😀😀😀😀😀

A great big FAIL👍👍

False divine Imamate is just a figment of your imagination, for you cannot produce any clear evidence from the Quran.

While saqifa and the way of consultation is clear in Quran.

Saqifa really has got you hasn’t it😜 bet you have endless nightmares on saqifa on how that made it through to the Muslims and yet divine Imamate authority is in a cloud of smoke .......Awwwwwwwww
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

Saqifa surpasses divine Imamate in Islam just because consultation is mentioned, divine Imamate is nowhere to be seen as you have problems yourself answering.

Something so important is mentioned in the Qur'an in various ways and forms, either as WALI or as ULUL AMRE and Allah has clearly mentioned who they were by removing rijs and purifying them  and Muhammad s.a.w did his bit by clearly identifying them. If someone wants to continue playing deaf, dumb and blind then that's down to them.

Imamah and Caliphate both are in the Qur'an and is created by Allah just as Messenger hood and Prophecy. If you don't want to accept that and follow intentions of others and man made and selected individuals be it coincidental, by force or other then that's down to you. I can only give you from the Qur'an what is needed and asked for accordingly. I can't give you from the Qur'an anything that you wish and desire in your way and words.😊

Mythbuster1

Re: Ibn Masud guilty of kufr?
« Reply #45 on: August 06, 2018, 01:27:12 PM »
Something so important is mentioned in the Qur'an in various ways and forms, either as WALI or as ULUL AMRE and Allah has clearly mentioned who they were by removing rijs and purifying them  and Muhammad s.a.w did his bit by clearly identifying them. If someone wants to continue playing deaf, dumb and blind then that's down to them.

Imamah and Caliphate both are in the Qur'an and is created by Allah just as Messenger hood and Prophecy. If you don't want to accept that and follow intentions of others and man made and selected individuals be it coincidental, by force or other then that's down to you. I can only give you from the Qur'an what is needed and asked for accordingly. I can't give you from the Qur'an anything that you wish and desire in your way and words.😊

So you have nothing from the Quran but just your theory on verses you posted.

You should be called wasteman and not iceman, you are just a waste of time, all hot air and no substance.

Mythbuster1

Re: Ibn Masud guilty of kufr?
« Reply #46 on: August 06, 2018, 01:41:34 PM »
Conclusion......

SAQIFA - 1

IMAMATE - 0

Wasteman can’t find no clear proof of Imamate from Quran that Allah swt only chooses while saqifa and the way to choose (mutual consultation/shura)is mentioned by Allah swt in the Quran.

"Those who hearken to their Lord, and establish regular Prayer; who (conduct) their affairs by mutual consultation among themselves; who spend out of what We bestow on them for Sustenance"

How more clear can it be? Unless you are brain dead ......honestly.

Not even a verse similar to the above on divine Imamate posted at all, it’s just as simple as that.😊

Divine Imamate is a Complete and utter failure an epic failure with no proofs or evidences of such a theory either from Quran or authentic sunnah as iceman or his kind cannot provide any.😊


iceman

Re: Ibn Masud guilty of kufr?
« Reply #47 on: August 06, 2018, 05:55:02 PM »
So you have nothing from the Quran but just your theory on verses you posted.

You should be called wasteman and not iceman, you are just a waste of time, all hot air and no substance.

I have plenty from the Qur'an but nothing that suits you and your desire. But here it is again just for you and for your eyes and ears only.

وَ إِذِ ابْتَلى إِبْراهِيمَ رَبُّهُ بِكَلِماتٍ فَأَتَمَّهُنَّ قالَ إِنِّي جاعِلُكَ لِلنَّاسِ إِماماً قالَ وَ مِنْ ذُرِّيَّتِي قالَ لا يَنالُ عَهْدِي الظَّالِمِينَ

"And when his Lord tried Ibrahim with commands, he fulfilled them. He said: Surely I will make you an Imam for mankind. (Ibrahim) said: And of my offspring (will there be leaders)? He said, my covenant does not include the unjust”. (2:124)

Was Abraham, promoted, was he demoted or was he given a title of a similar level and nature to what he already was?

This is more than enough on Imamah to knock you out and to put you to rest. But the ignorant and blind will keep coming rather than answering and addressing.

You can never move on from here.  😀

Mythbuster1

Re: Ibn Masud guilty of kufr?
« Reply #48 on: August 07, 2018, 10:31:49 AM »
I have plenty from the Qur'an but nothing that suits you and your desire. But here it is again just for you and for your eyes and ears only.

وَ إِذِ ابْتَلى إِبْراهِيمَ رَبُّهُ بِكَلِماتٍ فَأَتَمَّهُنَّ قالَ إِنِّي جاعِلُكَ لِلنَّاسِ إِماماً قالَ وَ مِنْ ذُرِّيَّتِي قالَ لا يَنالُ عَهْدِي الظَّالِمِينَ

"And when his Lord tried Ibrahim with commands, he fulfilled them. He said: Surely I will make you an Imam for mankind. (Ibrahim) said: And of my offspring (will there be leaders)? He said, my covenant does not include the unjust”. (2:124)

Was Abraham, promoted, was he demoted or was he given a title of a similar level and nature to what he already was?

This is more than enough on Imamah to knock you out and to put you to rest. But the ignorant and blind will keep coming rather than answering and addressing.

You can never move on from here.  😀

Lol already answered on another post.........are you running out of things to say that you are regurgitating the same post everywhere?
😂😂😂

You have nothing it’s been months mate😉

iceman

Re: Ibn Masud guilty of kufr?
« Reply #49 on: August 07, 2018, 07:36:42 PM »
Lol already answered on another post.........are you running out of things to say that you are regurgitating the same post everywhere?
😂😂😂

You have nothing it’s been months mate😉

Yes it has been months and stIll nothing from you. You still want to avoid it?

Mythbuster1

Re: Ibn Masud guilty of kufr?
« Reply #50 on: August 08, 2018, 04:28:33 PM »
Yes it has been months and stIll nothing from you. You still want to avoid it?
😂😂😂😂😂😂

Didn’t I ask the question first? And you haven’t delivered as yet 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

So the conclusion is after months of asking iceman cannot give me a CLEAR verse on divine Imamate

As can be seen in his posts👍

iceman

Re: Ibn Masud guilty of kufr?
« Reply #51 on: August 09, 2018, 06:44:00 PM »
😂😂😂😂😂😂

Didn’t I ask the question first? And you haven’t delivered as yet 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

So the conclusion is after months of asking iceman cannot give me a CLEAR verse on divine Imamate

As can be seen in his posts👍

I've given it to you time and time again. And just for your eyes only here it is again;


وَ إِذِ ابْتَلى إِبْراهِيمَ رَبُّهُ بِكَلِماتٍ فَأَتَمَّهُنَّ قالَ إِنِّي جاعِلُكَ لِلنَّاسِ إِماماً قالَ وَ مِنْ ذُرِّيَّتِي قالَ لا يَنالُ عَهْدِي الظَّالِمِينَ

"And when his Lord tried Ibrahim with commands, he fulfilled them. He said: Surely I will make you an Imam for mankind. (Ibrahim) said: And of my offspring (will there be leaders)? He said, my covenant does not include the unjust”. (2:124)

Not only was Abraham made an Imam after being a Messenger and Prophet but he also asked Allah about Imams from his off springs. So I wonder who they were. 😊 Keep rolling!

Mythbuster1

Re: Ibn Masud guilty of kufr?
« Reply #52 on: August 09, 2018, 08:12:26 PM »
I've given it to you time and time again. And just for your eyes only here it is again;


وَ إِذِ ابْتَلى إِبْراهِيمَ رَبُّهُ بِكَلِماتٍ فَأَتَمَّهُنَّ قالَ إِنِّي جاعِلُكَ لِلنَّاسِ إِماماً قالَ وَ مِنْ ذُرِّيَّتِي قالَ لا يَنالُ عَهْدِي الظَّالِمِينَ

"And when his Lord tried Ibrahim with commands, he fulfilled them. He said: Surely I will make you an Imam for mankind. (Ibrahim) said: And of my offspring (will there be leaders)? He said, my covenant does not include the unjust”. (2:124)

Not only was Abraham made an Imam after being a Messenger and Prophet but he also asked Allah about Imams from his off springs. So I wonder who they were. 😊 Keep rolling!

I answered back that ain’t no CLEAR verse in divine Imamate.......it’s just leadership, NOT divine leadership where you get all the powers of moving atoms and knowing when your gonna die leadership a supreme being leadership you believe, such a status that one leader is hiding for the last millennia and them leaders who’s status is above all prophets apart from the final prophet saw.😉

Well the offspring weren’t Ali ra and His progeny for they never got the test of messengerhood or prophethood which you keep avoiding to answer, a great prophet  a leader like Ibrahim as has to go through tests but not the imams oh no they don’t need to and you have no proof or verse to say they don’t either.......take them Shiite goggles off please mate.😊


zaid_ibn_ali

Re: Ibn Masud guilty of kufr?
« Reply #53 on: August 10, 2018, 01:54:08 AM »
If the ahle bayt of the Holy Prophet SAW were meant in the verse about Ibrahim AS progeny, then why not just have the verse say them the Holy Prophet’s SAW offspring rather than refer to a previous prophet’s offspring who were a totally different era & different book with different sharia?
Come on, the Quran would mention the 12 Imams by name or at least say the Imams are from the offspring of Fatima & Ali RA.

muslim720

Re: Ibn Masud guilty of kufr?
« Reply #54 on: August 10, 2018, 04:33:14 AM »
Well the offspring weren’t Ali ra and His progeny for they never got the test of messengerhood or prophethood which you keep avoiding to answer, a great prophet  a leader like Ibrahim as has to go through tests but not the imams oh no they don’t need to and you have no proof or verse to say they don’t either

Exactly what I ask Shias which renders them helpless.  According to their interpretation, a Prophet (asws) was tried and "promoted" to being an Imam.  Therefore, the precedence is set by them.  For one to become an Imam, he must first attain Prophethood.

Also, they say Imams (ra) are greater than all Prophets (asws) except the Holy Prophet (saw) because Muhammad (saw) was a Prophet and an Imam.  Well, then, isn't Ibrahim (asws) also a Prophet and an Imam, as per their own interpretation of the verse in Surah Al-Baqara?  Therefore, they must also concede that Ibrahim (asws) was also greater than their Imams (ra) for being a Prophet and an Imam.

Usually, crickets!  That is what you hear!
"Our coward ran from those in authority" - Iceman (admitting the truth regarding his 12th Imam)

iceman

Re: Ibn Masud guilty of kufr?
« Reply #55 on: August 10, 2018, 07:41:25 AM »
If the ahle bayt of the Holy Prophet SAW were meant in the verse about Ibrahim AS progeny, then why not just have the verse say them the Holy Prophet’s SAW offspring rather than refer to a previous prophet’s offspring who were a totally different era & different book with different sharia?
Come on, the Quran would mention the 12 Imams by name or at least say the Imams are from the offspring of Fatima & Ali RA.

Just a small note for the moment for you to try and understand, why didn't Allah just mention in the Bible, which is also the book of Allah, that Jesus won’t be murdered and neither will he be crucified but in fact...... rather than just wait for hundreds of years and then reveal that he wasn't murdered and neither was he crucified but in fact .....? Why leave it rather than mention it there and then? Please don't tell me that one book (Bible) wasn't protected and the other (Qur'an) was.

iceman

Re: Ibn Masud guilty of kufr?
« Reply #56 on: August 10, 2018, 08:04:47 AM »
Just a small note for the moment for you to try and understand, why didn't Allah just mention in the Bible, which is also the book of Allah, that Jesus won’t be murdered and neither will he be crucified but in fact...... rather than just wait for hundreds of years and then reveal that he wasn't murdered and neither was he crucified but in fact .....? Why leave it rather than mention it there and then? Please don't tell me that one book (Bible) wasn't protected and the other (Qur'an) was.

If Allah had mentioned it right there and then in the book (Qur'an) then if you disbelieved, you wouldn't disbelieve in that bit, would you. In fact you would reject the whole book, wouldn't you. And what's the actual test in that? Allah has mentioned certain things but left the Prophet s.a.w to clarify them, which he clearly and most certainly did.

Another example would be that the Qur'an had been revealed and surely the book of Allah should be enough and sufficient for us, but didn't the Prophet s.a.w still ask in fact demand for a pen and paper, but why and what for? Well one can question themselves that what ever the Prophet s.a.w was going to write down for us and the Ummah of that time, if it was really that important then it should have been in the Qur'an. Ever thought of this. Whoever are we to decide what is important and what isn't.

zaid_ibn_ali

Re: Ibn Masud guilty of kufr?
« Reply #57 on: August 10, 2018, 12:56:12 PM »
Just a small note for the moment for you to try and understand, why didn't Allah just mention in the Bible, which is also the book of Allah, that Jesus won’t be murdered and neither will he be crucified but in fact...... rather than just wait for hundreds of years and then reveal that he wasn't murdered and neither was he crucified but in fact .....? Why leave it rather than mention it there and then? Please don't tell me that one book (Bible) wasn't protected and the other (Qur'an) was.

If Allah had mentioned it right there and then in the book (Qur'an) then if you disbelieved, you wouldn't disbelieve in that bit, would you. In fact you would reject the whole book, wouldn't you. And what's the actual test in that? Allah has mentioned certain things but left the Prophet s.a.w to clarify them, which he clearly and most certainly did.

Another example would be that the Qur'an had been revealed and surely the book of Allah should be enough and sufficient for us, but didn't the Prophet s.a.w still ask in fact demand for a pen and paper, but why and what for? Well one can question themselves that what ever the Prophet s.a.w was going to write down for us and the Ummah of that time, if it was really that important then it should have been in the Qur'an. Ever thought of this. Whoever are we to decide what is important and what isn't.

Long totally irrelevant post.

There is no doubt in my mind that the verse you bring up is in regards to the children of Israel in the era of Ibrahim AS & his offspring.
Sorry but doing a long equation & creating long formulas to then allude this is a clear evidence of the Imamate of the the offspring of Ali RA is just not convincing for me.

I do not even believe the 9th, 10th & 11th Imams were even scholars.
As the scholars of their age were known. There is virtually zilch known about these Imams even in shia literature. There were more deserving Sayyids of their time who deserve reverence as scholars or spiritual guides.

Mythbuster1

Re: Ibn Masud guilty of kufr?
« Reply #58 on: August 11, 2018, 07:18:25 PM »
Wasteman comes up with a verse of a prophet PROMOTED to a divine imam which is a higher status for a Shiite belief yet he can’t provide anything for the ahle baith ra to bypass prophethood and jump straight on to the highest honour bigger than prophethood.

Come on wasteman you couldn’t prove Imamate over saqifa you can’t get a clear verse on Imamate theory and now you dug a deeper hole you cannot explain how imams are divine imams that don’t need to go through prophethood.

😂😂😂😂😂

That’s ameen s shiism in a nutshell it just gets worse😉👍

iceman

Re: Ibn Masud guilty of kufr?
« Reply #59 on: August 11, 2018, 07:27:26 PM »
Wasteman comes up with a verse of a prophet PROMOTED to a divine imam which is a higher status for a Shiite belief yet he can’t provide anything for the ahle baith ra to bypass prophethood and jump straight on to the highest honour bigger than prophethood.

Come on wasteman you couldn’t prove Imamate over saqifa you can’t get a clear verse on Imamate theory and now you dug a deeper hole you cannot explain how imams are divine imams that don’t need to go through prophethood.

😂😂😂😂😂

That’s ameen s shiism in a nutshell it just gets worse😉👍

I didn't say anything 😊 I asked you a question and you can't even give a simple answer. Was Abraham promoted or given a title of a similar nature and grade? That's all I asked and you're still trying to avoid it by dancing around it. As far as by passing Messenger hood and Prophecy is concerned and going straight to Imamah, can you prove to me that it's necessary for you to be a Messenger and Prophet first before being an Imam. Answer up or own up! 😊

 

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