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Placement of ayat tatheer

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GreatChineseFall

Placement of ayat tatheer
« on: January 21, 2016, 04:30:03 PM »
Salam,
I was wondering, I have heard of the claim or allegation that various shi'i scholars held the view that the placement of ayat tatheer has been changed. How true is this and what evidence is there for this? I am only asking about classical scholars and is it also clear from the context that they weren't discussing opinions they did not held themselves?

Hani

Re: Placement of ayat tatheer
« Reply #1 on: January 21, 2016, 09:30:03 PM »
عَلامَةُ أَهْلِ الْبِدَعِ الْوَقِيعَةُ فِي أَهْلِ الأَثَرِ. وَعَلامَةُ الْجَهْمِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُشَبِّهَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الْقَدَرِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُجَبِّرَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الزَّنَادِقَةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ الأَثَرِ حَشْوِيَّةً

Religion = simple & clear

GreatChineseFall

Re: Placement of ayat tatheer
« Reply #2 on: January 24, 2016, 12:11:26 AM »
Jazakallah, this was stated:
Quote
This verse was revealed about the five of Ahlul-Kisa’ (people of the cloak), Shia Scholars such as al-`Allamah al-Majlisi, Grand Ayatullah `Ali al-Milani and Yusuf al-Bahrani say that this is a completely different verse, the position of this verse was changed by the Companions (ra) of the Prophet SAWS because they disliked Ahlul-Bayt (ra), they placed it in the middle of other verses which are talking about the wives of the Prophet SAWS but it should have been somewhere else.

Does anyone have references for these? Does it apply to all three, isn't it that some of them talk about tahreef in meaning.

Also, in general , which scholar (or book) do you think is to be considered the most forward and unequivocal in the opinion of tahreef(not tahreef in meaning or something else ambiguous) while still being highly respected?

MuslimK

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Re: Placement of ayat tatheer
« Reply #3 on: January 24, 2016, 03:29:06 AM »

Sharafudin Musawi says:

"Although we are convinced that no distortion has taken place in the verses of the Noble Qur'an and that our heavenly Book has not been tampered with in any way, it is by no means clear that the arrangement and recension of the verses is precisely that in which they were revealed. For it is quite possible that the 'purification verse' concerning the People of the House was revealed separately and then, when the verses of the Qur'an were being assembled, was placed in the middle of the verses relating to the wives of the Prophet, either in error or deliberately." (Sharaf al-Din al-Musawi, Kalimat al-Ghurra', p.213.)

Link from major Shia website: http://www.al-islam.org/imamate-and-leadership-sayyid-mujtaba-musavi-lari/lesson-19-confirmation-quran-and-sunnah

Other link: http://www.imamreza.net/eng/imamreza.php?id=1036&page=7



Opinion of Majlisi:
فلعل آية التطهير أيضا وضعوها في موضع زعموا أنها تناسبه ، أو أدخلوها في سياق مخاطبة الزوجات لبعض مصالحهم الدنيوية

ولو سلم عدم التغيير في الترتيب فنقول : سيأتي أخبار مستفيضة بأنه سقط من القرآن آيات كثيره ، فلعله سقط مما قبل الآية وما بعدها آيات لو ثبتت لم يفت الربط الظاهري بينها

“It is possible that the purification verse was added (by the Companions) at this part (of the verse) claiming that it was referring to the wives, or they added in the verses addressing the prophet’s wives, to suit their religious needs…Even if we accept that there was no tampering (by the Companions) in the order (of the verses), we say there are many narrations which discuss the removal/canceling of Quranic verses. [Maybe there were verses before and after the verse of purification and they were removed]; if these verses were not removed before and after the verse (of purification), we would see the apparent link between them.”

(source: Bihar al-Anwar, vol.35, pp.234-235)

در خلافت میل نیست ای بی‌خبر
میل کی آید ز بوبکر و عمر
میل اگر بودی در آن دو مقتدا
هر دو کردندی پسر را پیشوا

عطار نِیشابوری

www.Nahjul-Balagha.net | www.TwelverShia.net | www.ghadirkhumm.com

MuslimK

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  • یا مقلب القلوب ثبت قلبی علی دینک
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Re: Placement of ayat tatheer
« Reply #4 on: January 24, 2016, 03:33:08 AM »
در خلافت میل نیست ای بی‌خبر
میل کی آید ز بوبکر و عمر
میل اگر بودی در آن دو مقتدا
هر دو کردندی پسر را پیشوا

عطار نِیشابوری

www.Nahjul-Balagha.net | www.TwelverShia.net | www.ghadirkhumm.com

Bolani Muslim

Re: Placement of ayat tatheer
« Reply #5 on: January 24, 2016, 05:38:37 AM »
^In the ImamBara I go to, I was reading a speech about eid Ghadeer when I read the verse 5:3 full as part of the speech. After the speech, the 'buzurgs' got mad at me saying I was reading it "Usman's" way. These ideas aren't common in the youth here in the west, but are VERY common with the  Shias back home. Even my dad believes in 'minor' tahrif.

MuslimAnswers

Re: Placement of ayat tatheer
« Reply #6 on: January 24, 2016, 06:21:14 PM »
Salam Alaykum,

This reference: Sharaf al-Din al-Musawi, Kalimat al-Ghurra', p.213

has anyone been able to locate it? I remember trying to find it once but was unable to do so.

 

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