TwelverShia.net Forum

Shia Mufassir confirms that Sahaba Changed the Quran

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Muhammad Habib

Shia Mufassir confirms that Sahaba Changed the Quran
« on: February 12, 2015, 07:40:38 PM »
Shia Mufasir Hussain Bakhsh Jara in his Tafseer Anwar_ul_najaf Accused Sahaba that the comettie that was supposed to compile Holy Quran mixed verses and changed the subjects of the book  and this was done by those sahaba in accordance with pre planned scheme. And his list of accusations is very long.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2015, 07:42:54 PM by Muhammad Habib »

Ameen

Re: Shia Mufassir confirms that Sahaba Changed the Quran
« Reply #1 on: February 12, 2015, 07:59:26 PM »
whether this happened or not is another thing and can be discussed. But turning around and saying that this is impossible or something like this could never have happened would be wrong.

Why??? Because the Sahaba were human, just like me and you. Also authority and power makes you do a lot of things.

Like when Khilafath came in to place Hadiths and their collection was disregarded. The Ummah was kept away from such treasure.

Before Khilafath came in to place one made way for it by not being interested in what the Prophet (pbuh) had to write down for the Ummah. One didn't seem the need for it.

There are many matters that come in to the grey area. But one needs to understand that these were the Sahaba, just humans and were capable of what any other human is/was.

Did this or that happen??? Well one can discuss the nature and facts of it. But one can't remove the possibility of it, no matter how hard one tries!
















 

Hani

Re: Shia Mufassir confirms that Sahaba Changed the Quran
« Reply #2 on: February 12, 2015, 10:24:53 PM »
The entire Ummah removed the "possibility of it" except this sect who believes in Tahreef since the Qur'an doesn't mention the things they believe in.
عَلامَةُ أَهْلِ الْبِدَعِ الْوَقِيعَةُ فِي أَهْلِ الأَثَرِ. وَعَلامَةُ الْجَهْمِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُشَبِّهَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الْقَدَرِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُجَبِّرَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الزَّنَادِقَةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ الأَثَرِ حَشْوِيَّةً

Religion = simple & clear

sawaaiq

Re: Shia Mufassir confirms that Sahaba Changed the Quran
« Reply #3 on: February 12, 2015, 10:49:43 PM »
Quote
Why??? Because the Sahaba were human, just like me and you. Also authority and power makes you do a lot of things.

Look at this [EDIT], Ali used the mus-haf of Uthman, which was affirmed by Abdur-Razzak as-San'ani, the famous Tabi'i who had Shia leanings, do we go by the example of Ali or the example of the lying Rafidha?  Ali is a hujjah against the Rafidha
« Last Edit: February 12, 2015, 11:04:11 PM by Hani »

Hadrami

Re: Shia Mufassir confirms that Sahaba Changed the Quran
« Reply #4 on: February 13, 2015, 12:52:31 AM »
whether this happened or not is another thing and can be discussed. But turning around and saying that this is impossible or something like this could never have happened would be wrong.

Why??? Because the Sahaba were human, just like me and you. Also authority and power makes you do a lot of things.

At last this lying rafidi unintentionally revealed his true belief. Even after Allah SWT said that He WILL protect it, his hate filled heart believes its POSSIBLE that the companion changed it.

As usual, its shitism against Allah.

Hani

Re: Shia Mufassir confirms that Sahaba Changed the Quran
« Reply #5 on: February 13, 2015, 01:24:22 AM »
Well Ameen, good luck living your life thinking that your holy-book is corrupted and altered.

I've never seen a devout Christian saying "Maybe the Bible was altered" nor have I seen a devout Jew say "Maybe the Torah was altered". But when it comes to Shia, it's a whole new different ball game.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2015, 01:26:46 AM by Hani »
عَلامَةُ أَهْلِ الْبِدَعِ الْوَقِيعَةُ فِي أَهْلِ الأَثَرِ. وَعَلامَةُ الْجَهْمِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُشَبِّهَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الْقَدَرِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُجَبِّرَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الزَّنَادِقَةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ الأَثَرِ حَشْوِيَّةً

Religion = simple & clear

Ameen

Re: Shia Mufassir confirms that Sahaba Changed the Quran
« Reply #6 on: February 13, 2015, 03:29:28 PM »
The entire Ummah removed the "possibility of it" except this sect who believes in Tahreef since the Qur'an doesn't mention the things they believe in.

Brother the Quran doesn't mention a lot of things that the Muslims believe in. I can point out many things which are not mentioned in the Quran. So your argument here is false.

Will continue this.





Hani

Re: Shia Mufassir confirms that Sahaba Changed the Quran
« Reply #7 on: February 13, 2015, 04:30:25 PM »
My friend it's not about what it didn't mention. It's about you validating the possibility that our holy-book is corrupt.


I ask you this, had the scenario been different, had it actually been `Ali who collected this Mushaf and spread it in the lands, instead of Abu Bakr and `Uthman. Would you have still said "Maybe `Ali and his men changed it or messed it up?"
عَلامَةُ أَهْلِ الْبِدَعِ الْوَقِيعَةُ فِي أَهْلِ الأَثَرِ. وَعَلامَةُ الْجَهْمِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُشَبِّهَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الْقَدَرِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُجَبِّرَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الزَّنَادِقَةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ الأَثَرِ حَشْوِيَّةً

Religion = simple & clear

Ameen

Re: Shia Mufassir confirms that Sahaba Changed the Quran
« Reply #8 on: February 13, 2015, 05:10:27 PM »
My dear brothers, you're getting emotional and carried away over nothing. One shouldn't and must not get emotional or personal when in discussion. How the hell would you brothers do Dawa when you can't get a grip on yourselves.

Nobody said anything about the Quran being corrupt. It would be nice if you stopped twisting and turning things around and start giving them your own meaning.

Allah claimed he will protect the Quran but how and in what way is one thing that needs to be looked at. But there is something that comes well before this and that is,

If the Quran is immune, safe and free from any tampering or alteration then why the hell did Allah promise to protect it????????????????

There is no need for any sort of protection what so ever if something is free and safe from threat. This is evidence for something to be under threat rather than free and safe from threat.

Will continue this. Lets start to discuss rather than criticise and condemn before hand.

















Muhammad Habib

Re: Shia Mufassir confirms that Sahaba Changed the Quran
« Reply #9 on: February 13, 2015, 05:47:34 PM »
First of all, Mr Hussain Bakhsh Jara is not talking about human errors in collection of Holy Quran rather he accused those Sahaba that they altered and changed the sequence as pre-planned scheme.
Secondly, Our Holy Book is protected by Allah himself as he declared in Quran thats y we all declare that it is protected with the exception of Ghullat of 12rs.U cant defend mr.Jara for his wrong beliefs. U 12rs when in muslim community always pretended that u accept The Book of Allah is immune and declare that person as Kafir who says that Quran is tempered etc under the cover of Taqqiya but in private gatherings u all accept that Quran is not immune . Hope this thread will show the true face of Rafida 12rs.
Thirdly, The whole Ummah agreed on this Quran. And they all have consensus on the Uprightness of Quran except the deviants.So u still claim that their is possibility to debate on .
« Last Edit: February 13, 2015, 05:57:15 PM by Muhammad Habib »

Hani

Re: Shia Mufassir confirms that Sahaba Changed the Quran
« Reply #10 on: February 13, 2015, 06:42:17 PM »
Quote
If the Quran is immune, safe and free from any tampering or alteration then why the hell did Allah promise to protect it?


It's the other way around, we all believe it is immune because Allah promised to protect it.
عَلامَةُ أَهْلِ الْبِدَعِ الْوَقِيعَةُ فِي أَهْلِ الأَثَرِ. وَعَلامَةُ الْجَهْمِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُشَبِّهَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الْقَدَرِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُجَبِّرَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الزَّنَادِقَةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ الأَثَرِ حَشْوِيَّةً

Religion = simple & clear

Ameen

Re: Shia Mufassir confirms that Sahaba Changed the Quran
« Reply #11 on: February 13, 2015, 06:57:37 PM »
Allah promised to protect the Quran. There are a number of questions that arise here;

1,What did he mean by this???

A, It doesn't matter what happens the Quran will remain in and has its original and true phase,face and form???

B,He will potect it through someone??? In other words someone will have the true and exact copy of the actual Quran in its original phase, face and form???
 
2, Protect the Quran from whom??? This is the crucial question. From whom??? From what threat???

If Allah has vowed to protect it then the threat and danger of alteration and tampering exists. There has to be someone who will cause harm or try to cause harm, be a danger and threat to the Quran. Otherwise what is the point of protection and defence. Why on earth would Allah claim to protect and defend it.

Other revelations have been threatened and didn't Allah protect them??? Yes he did. But how??? Through other Messengers/Prophets, through other revelations.

Now back to the Quran, how did Allah protect the Quran and from whom did he protect it???

3, What was the danger and threat??? There has to be something. Someone somehow must have treatened the Quran and then Allah protect it.

If you claim that the Quran is protected then that's fine. But you have to tell me how was the Quran threatened and who was a threat to it and how. Then Allah protected it in and by such a way and manner.














 




Ameen

Re: Shia Mufassir confirms that Sahaba Changed the Quran
« Reply #12 on: February 13, 2015, 07:02:02 PM »
Quote
If the Quran is immune, safe and free from any tampering or alteration then why the hell did Allah promise to protect it?


It's the other way around, we all believe it is immune because Allah promised to protect it.

Sorry brother do correct me here,

If something is immune then that means it free and safe from any danger and threat. Then it doesn't need any kind of protection and defence.

If something is not free and safe from danger and threat then that needs to be protected and defended.

????!








Hani

Re: Shia Mufassir confirms that Sahaba Changed the Quran
« Reply #13 on: February 13, 2015, 07:42:03 PM »
My reply to your "list" above, is to repeat the obvious. (Your questions show you do believe in Tahreef)


Allah sent a text to guide humanity, He said that all other texts are corrupt except this text, He said that all those believing in the other texts are deviant and astray, He said that ONLY our text is true guidance and that He will not send us another text after it, it is the final text brought by the final messenger and we all became religiously accountable after receiving it.


What happens is one of three things,


1-Either HE protects it from being altered so humanity can always benefit from it since we are accountable religiously. (Belief of Ahlul-Sunnah)


Or


2-He leaves it without protection and thus sooner or later it will be lost and the earth will be devoid of guidance and we become all free from being accountable religiously. (Since God is just and fair)


Or


3-He takes it away from us and gives it to some hidden man who vanishes without a trace leaving the earth devoid of guidance but we are still religiously accountable. (A Rafidi belief of an unjust god)


The first is what any rational devout Muslim will believe, the second defeats the purpose of creation, and the third belief is evil, it is absolute nonsense that only an unjust and unfair god would do. Sadly, some Rafidah have this third one.


The next point is, what is "protection"? What do we mean when we say Allah protected the Qur'an?


The protection of the Qur'an means: The preservation of its texts exactly as intended when revealed, and its availability to the mainstream Muslims.


If any of these two parts is missing then the Qur'an was not protected nor would its existence serve a purpose. If the text is not preserved by Allah then it becomes corrupt and unusable, if it is hidden from the Muslims then it is lost and unusable.


The third and last point is "How" meaning: How does Allah protect the Qur'an?


The answer is that it is none of our business, He promised to protect it and that is sufficient for us to believe in its integrity and authenticity.


By observation we see that Allah made the believers successful in memorizing it, then collecting it, then preserving it, then spreading it in the lands and mass transmitting it to the next generations and this continued generation after generation and that is the Qur'an everyone relies upon today.


Thus Allah chose this system to preserve the text of His message. We do not know of any other system as Muslims.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2015, 07:53:55 PM by Hani »
عَلامَةُ أَهْلِ الْبِدَعِ الْوَقِيعَةُ فِي أَهْلِ الأَثَرِ. وَعَلامَةُ الْجَهْمِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُشَبِّهَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الْقَدَرِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُجَبِّرَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الزَّنَادِقَةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ الأَثَرِ حَشْوِيَّةً

Religion = simple & clear

Furkan

Re: Shia Mufassir confirms that Sahaba Changed the Quran
« Reply #14 on: February 13, 2015, 07:58:33 PM »
Brother hani , May I copy this reply of yours above?
Before Qazî Mihemed, President of the first kurdish Republic Mahabad was hanged the iranian judge asked:

“last words?”

Qazî: “I thank Allah: even in death he put my shoes above your heads”

Hani

Re: Shia Mufassir confirms that Sahaba Changed the Quran
« Reply #15 on: February 13, 2015, 08:07:08 PM »
why not?

As long as you don't paste it in the same thread : p
عَلامَةُ أَهْلِ الْبِدَعِ الْوَقِيعَةُ فِي أَهْلِ الأَثَرِ. وَعَلامَةُ الْجَهْمِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُشَبِّهَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الْقَدَرِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُجَبِّرَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الزَّنَادِقَةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ الأَثَرِ حَشْوِيَّةً

Religion = simple & clear

sawaaiq

Re: Shia Mufassir confirms that Sahaba Changed the Quran
« Reply #16 on: February 13, 2015, 08:52:03 PM »
Ameen, why didn't Ali mention that the Qur'an was corrupted by the Sahaba, why did he use the mus-haf of Uthman?
« Last Edit: February 13, 2015, 09:32:47 PM by Hani »

Rationalist

Re: Shia Mufassir confirms that Sahaba Changed the Quran
« Reply #17 on: February 14, 2015, 01:30:30 AM »
The third and last point is "How" meaning: How does Allah protect the Qur'an?


The answer is that it is none of our business, He promised to protect it and that is sufficient for us to believe in its integrity and authenticity.


I'm guessing the 12ers like him believe the protection is hand of the Mahdi.

Ahmad bin Muhammad bin Sa'eed narrated from Alibin al-Hasan at-Taymali from al-Hasan and Muhammad,the sons of Ali bin Yousuf, from Sa’dan bin Muslim fromSabah al-Muzni from al-Harith bin Haseera from Habbaal-Orani that Amirul Mo'mineen (s) had said:“As if I see our Shia in the mosque of Kufa setting uppavilions to teach the people the Qur'an as it has beenrevealed but when our Qa’im appears, he will destroy it(the mosque) and level its mihrab to the ground.”
Biharul Anwar   , vol.52 p.364,
Mo’jam Ahadeeth al-Imam al-Mahdi vol.3 p.126.



Abu Sulayman Ahmad bin Hawtah narrated fromIbraheem bin Iss~haq an-Nahawandi from Abdullah binHammad al-Ansari from Sabah al-Muzni from al-Harithbin Haseera that al-Asbugh bin Nabata had said:“I heard Ali (s) saying: “As if I see the Persians settingup their pavilions in the mosque of Kufa and teaching people the Qur'an as it has been revealed!”

I said: “O Amirul Mo'mineen, is the Qur'an not as it has been revealed?”He said: “No, it is not. The names of seventy ones of Quraysh have been removed from it.


The name of AbuLahab has been left (in the Qur'an) just to remind the Prophet (s) of something because he is the Prophet’s uncle.”


Biharul Anwar , vol.52 p.364.


Hadrami

Re: Shia Mufassir confirms that Sahaba Changed the Quran
« Reply #18 on: February 14, 2015, 01:46:02 AM »
Does it really matter what he thinks now?
I knew he was on taqiya all this time.

He slipped and now we know his real belief. So Ameen believes:
- Quran can be tampered even when Allah promise that no one will be able to do that
- Due to that tampering, there is doubt in it even after Allah says there is no doubt in it
- Quran maybe with hidden imam (meaning we dont have it as a guide) even when Allah says it is a guide for muttaqin

Anything Allah says which goes against Shitism, he will deny it. Thats the natural product of Shitism, zombies.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2015, 02:14:10 AM by Hani »

Muhammad Tazin

Re: Shia Mufassir confirms that Sahaba Changed the Quran
« Reply #19 on: February 14, 2015, 12:15:17 PM »
This is from TAfsir al Qummi !!!!!!!!

 

Related Topics

  Subject / Started by Replies Last post
7 Replies
4121 Views
Last post August 17, 2015, 01:20:54 PM
by Al Dukhan
0 Replies
1057 Views
Last post June 03, 2016, 02:44:33 AM
by MuslimK
4 Replies
652 Views
Last post December 01, 2017, 06:34:40 AM
by Hadrami
1 Replies
513 Views
Last post January 14, 2019, 02:38:06 AM
by MuslimK