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Shia narration: Verse of Wudhu was revealed differently

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MuslimK

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Shia narration: Verse of Wudhu was revealed differently
« on: January 01, 2015, 07:54:29 PM »
بسم الله الرحمن الرحیم

Allah says in the Quran:

فَاغْسِلُوا وُجُوهَكُمْ وَأَيْدِيَكُمْ إِلَى الْمَرَافِقِ

wash your faces, and your hands to the elbows; (5:6)

However, Shia do the opposite; they wash FROM the elbows to their hands. They start washing with elbows and then the hands.

In order to justify their beliefs they even question the authenticity of the Quran. When the verses didn't support their claims and beliefs they attributed narrations to Ahlulbayt that say these verses were originally revealed differently but when the enemies of Ahlulbayt compiled the Quran, they made changes to these verses.

One example is their narration about the sixth verse of Surah Maida. They have attributed a narration to Jafar bin Muhammad who is free from their lies. The narration is present in al-Kafi.

Rough translation:

...I asked Abu Abdillah (as) about the saying of Allah (swt) "wash your faces, and your hands TO the elbows"... He said: This is not how it was revealed rather it was [revealed] "wash your faces, and your hands FROM the elbows"...

محمد بن الحسن وغيره، عن سهل بن زياد، عن علي بن الحكم، عن الهيثم ابن عروة التميمي قال سألت أبا عبد الله (عليه السلام) عن قول الله عز وجل: " فاغسلوا وجوهكم وأيديكم إلى المرافق " فقلت: هكذا ومسحت من ظهر كفي إلى المرفق، فقال: ليس هكذا تنزيلها إنما هي " فاغسلوا وجوهكم وأيديكم من المرافق " ، ثم أمر يده من مرفقه إلى أصابعه.


الكافي للكليني الجزء الثالث ص28 (باب) * حد الوجه الذي يغسل والذراعين وكيف يغسل

http://lib.eshia.ir/11005/3/28

Al-Kafi volume 3, page 28.
Tahzib al-ahkam volume 1, page 57.
در خلافت میل نیست ای بی‌خبر
میل کی آید ز بوبکر و عمر
میل اگر بودی در آن دو مقتدا
هر دو کردندی پسر را پیشوا

عطار نِیشابوری

www.Nahjul-Balagha.net | www.TwelverShia.net | www.ghadirkhumm.com

Taha

Re: Shia narration: Verse of Wudhu was revealed differently
« Reply #1 on: January 01, 2015, 08:16:02 PM »
Don't Sunnis do the same?  The Qur'an says to wipe the feet but Sunnis say that wiping is incorrect but washing is the correct way.

Or was this another "excellent bidaa" from Hadhrat Umar?

Hani

Re: Shia narration: Verse of Wudhu was revealed differently
« Reply #2 on: January 01, 2015, 08:30:54 PM »
Don't Sunnis do the same?  The Qur'an says to wipe the feet but Sunnis say that wiping is incorrect but washing is the correct way.

Or was this another "excellent bidaa" from Hadhrat Umar?


No, Sunnies don't say Allah's book was corrupted and it should've said something else, Sunnies explain it linguistically.


(And washing includes wiping and if this is what the Prophet (saw) did then it is an established Sunnah that must be followed).
عَلامَةُ أَهْلِ الْبِدَعِ الْوَقِيعَةُ فِي أَهْلِ الأَثَرِ. وَعَلامَةُ الْجَهْمِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُشَبِّهَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الْقَدَرِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُجَبِّرَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الزَّنَادِقَةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ الأَثَرِ حَشْوِيَّةً

Religion = simple & clear

Taha

Re: Shia narration: Verse of Wudhu was revealed differently
« Reply #3 on: January 02, 2015, 10:53:22 AM »
No, Sunnies don't say Allah's book was corrupted and it should've said something else, Sunnies explain it linguistically.


(And washing includes wiping and if this is what the Prophet (saw) did then it is an established Sunnah that must be followed).
Wiping and washing are two different words in Arabic.  You wash the arms.  You wipe the feet.  Two different words are used in the same Ayat of wudhu.

Husayn

Re: Shia narration: Verse of Wudhu was revealed differently
« Reply #4 on: January 02, 2015, 02:53:23 PM »
No, Sunnies don't say Allah's book was corrupted and it should've said something else, Sunnies explain it linguistically.


(And washing includes wiping and if this is what the Prophet (saw) did then it is an established Sunnah that must be followed).
Wiping and washing are two different words in Arabic.  You wash the arms.  You wipe the feet.  Two different words are used in the same Ayat of wudhu.

Read carefully and slowly, maybe it will help.

Wiping is a part of washing - or do you not wipe when you wash? The Prophet (saws) wiped his feet while washing.
إن يتبعون إلا الظن وما تهوى الأنفس

Taha

Re: Shia narration: Verse of Wudhu was revealed differently
« Reply #5 on: January 03, 2015, 02:01:27 AM »
Read carefully and slowly, maybe it will help.

Wiping is a part of washing - or do you not wipe when you wash? The Prophet (saws) wiped his feet while washing.


Of course wiping is part of washing.  You obviously read too fast that you got yourself confused. 


The Qur'an says to wipe.  You can wipe without washing.  You cannot wash without wiping.  Why do Sunnis say that it is obligatory to wash and that wiping is not sufficient when the Qur'an says that it is?

Hani

Re: Shia narration: Verse of Wudhu was revealed differently
« Reply #6 on: January 03, 2015, 02:05:20 AM »
Of course wiping is part of washing.  You obviously read too fast that you got yourself confused. 


The Qur'an says to wipe.  You can wipe without washing.  You cannot wash without wiping.  Why do Sunnis say that it is obligatory to wash and that wiping is not sufficient when the Qur'an says that it is?


Because it is the established Sunnah of the Prophet (saw) and he made his companions do it. Thus, we as his followers will do it.
عَلامَةُ أَهْلِ الْبِدَعِ الْوَقِيعَةُ فِي أَهْلِ الأَثَرِ. وَعَلامَةُ الْجَهْمِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُشَبِّهَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الْقَدَرِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُجَبِّرَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الزَّنَادِقَةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ الأَثَرِ حَشْوِيَّةً

Religion = simple & clear

Ebn Hussein

Re: Shia narration: Verse of Wudhu was revealed differently
« Reply #7 on: January 03, 2015, 02:11:20 AM »
^I love it when Rafidis suddenly become Quranists and forgot the 'Itrah, especially the master of the 'Itra, Muhammad (SAWS). It's like the prayer times in the Qur'an. They are quick to point out that generally (from the Zahir, lol they become Zahirist-literalist-Wahhabists) from the Zahir there are three prayer times in the Qur'an and that Ibn Abbas once reported that the Prophet (SAWS) joined the prayer without any reason (suddenly Bukhari and Ibn Abbas become Hujjar and Ma3sumin, lol), yet they forgot ALL their hadith from the Imams plus a DETAILED khutbah of Ali Ibn Abi Talib were he says that a good Muslims prays 5 prayers at FIVE different times a day (like a Sunni).
الإمام الشافعي رحمه الله
لم أر أحداً من أهل الأهواء أشهد بالزور من الرافضة! - الخطيب في الكفاية والسوطي.

Imam Al-Shafi3i - may Allah have mercy upon him - said: "I have not seen among the heretics a people more famous for falsehood than the Rafidah." [narrated by Al-Khatib Al-Baghdadi/Al-Kifayah]

Taha

Re: Shia narration: Verse of Wudhu was revealed differently
« Reply #8 on: January 03, 2015, 02:13:58 AM »
Because it is the established Sunnah of the Prophet (saw) and he made his companions do it. Thus, we as his followers will do it.
Fair enough.  But was it obligatory?


It's like the prayer times in the Qur'an. They are quick to point out that generally (from the Zahir, lol they become Zahirist-literalist-Wahhabists) from the Zahir there are three prayer times in the Qur'an and that Ibn Abbas once reported that the Prophet (SAWS) joined the prayer without any reason (suddenly Bukhari and Ibn Abbas become Hujjar and Ma3sumin, lol), yet they forgot ALL their hadith from the Imams plus a DETAILED khutbah of Ali Ibn Abi Talib were he says that a good Muslims prays 5 prayers at FIVE different times a day (like a Sunni).

The correct opinion is that there is no sin in combining but that separating is, of course, better.
What Shias practice is of no consequence.  Majority of Shia barely know anything about religion, anyways.  Although, their level of knowledge is still better than the average Sunni.


« Last Edit: January 03, 2015, 02:18:53 AM by Ebn Hussein »

Hani

Re: Shia narration: Verse of Wudhu was revealed differently
« Reply #9 on: January 03, 2015, 02:22:34 AM »
Quote
Fair enough.  But was it obligatory?


Scholars say that established Sunan or what is Mu'akkad and stressed upon by Rasul-Allah (saw) reaches the level of "obligatory" or that you may be sinful for abandoning it (if you know about it).


This is a Fiqhi topic you can discuss with experts in Fiqh, as for our topic we are simply showing that what Ahlul-Sunnah do is not contradicting the Qur'an.


The washing includes the wiping.


As for other scholars they explain the verse linguistically to mean washing of the feet. No scholar tough will say that there is Tahreef here.
عَلامَةُ أَهْلِ الْبِدَعِ الْوَقِيعَةُ فِي أَهْلِ الأَثَرِ. وَعَلامَةُ الْجَهْمِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُشَبِّهَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الْقَدَرِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُجَبِّرَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الزَّنَادِقَةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ الأَثَرِ حَشْوِيَّةً

Religion = simple & clear

Rationalist

Re: Shia narration: Verse of Wudhu was revealed differently
« Reply #10 on: January 20, 2015, 04:48:56 AM »
Although, their level of knowledge is still better than the average Sunni.[/font]

That's not true. The 12er Shia sect is based on emotional events in the aftermath of the Prophet's (pbuh) passing, and gives more preference to that than the Quran. While the Sunnis in general focus more on the Quran, and it rarely covers those areas  to the public.

 

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