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Shia & the Qur'anic recitation and interpretation

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Hani

Shia & the Qur'anic recitation and interpretation
« on: September 12, 2014, 09:52:05 PM »
al-Salamu `Aleykum,


A brother opened my eyes to a thread from SC, called:


"Are Shia Aalam's Qur'an Different Than Sunni?"


In which the Shia member says in the opening post:


"I have noticed a difference in how Shia scholars recite Qur'an vs. Sunni Scholars. Essentially, Shia scholars seem to use a sweeter voice and almost sing the verses. I noticed that Sunnis scholars reciting Qur'an extend the transition (fairly long) from one ayah to the next and use a more muffled tone. I prefer the Shia recitations more, they allow me to focus on salaat more and less about the style of the recitation."


I'll leave the people of Qur'an to comment on this part above, what interested the brother were the words of the Moderator:



If I were to comment on the above I'd say the following,


Firstly, Ahlul-Sunnah recite the Qur'an better almost all the time, and if we say 99.99% of the time we wouldn't be off by much.


Secondly, as far as Shia understanding the Qur'an better, this is what is incorrect, how can people who busy themselves reciting Ziyarat Ashura and other such trivial texts know more than the people who consider the Qur'an the center of their world, and recite it day and night?


The Shia are the weakest when it comes to "understanding" the Qur'an, their books of Tafseer, such as al-Qummi and al-Safi and the like, they are a testament to this fact.


Suddenly the "Lamp" in the verse turns into the Imam, the "Believers" are usually reduced to Ahlul-Bayt or `Ali (ra), The river of "Kawthar" for no reason transforms into Fatimah, the Surah beginning with the letters "Kaaf Haa Yaa `Ayn Saad" with the wiggle of a magic stick means Karbalah and the death of Husayn and Yazid and the thirst of Husayn and his patience.




These are examples from an ocean of similar texts, so No, Nah, Noway! That you people even remotely understand the Qur'an.


And for this we had an entire book translated:
http://twelvershia.net/2013/04/05/the-fractious-schizophrenia-discussing-the-reality-of-the-crisis-between-the-shia-scholars-and-the-quran/
« Last Edit: September 12, 2014, 09:55:16 PM by Hani »
عَلامَةُ أَهْلِ الْبِدَعِ الْوَقِيعَةُ فِي أَهْلِ الأَثَرِ. وَعَلامَةُ الْجَهْمِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُشَبِّهَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الْقَدَرِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُجَبِّرَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الزَّنَادِقَةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ الأَثَرِ حَشْوِيَّةً

Religion = simple & clear

Nader Zaveri

Re: Shia & the Qur'anic recitation and interpretation
« Reply #1 on: September 12, 2014, 10:35:37 PM »
Assalaamu `Alaykum,


There is no difference in our recitations, we abide by the same tajweed rules as anyone else. The reason why you are noticing the difference is because of the location of the person. Usually those scholar who recite the Qur'an are from Iran, or they are Arab scholars who went to Iran and learned from Iranian, so they have a different style.

I am Shee`ah, but the main reciters I listen to are from Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, so therefore when people hear my Qur'an recitation they say I sound like a Saudi reciter. It all depends on who your teachers are and how they recite. These difference can be seen within Sunnis as well, like Egyptian Qaris from Saudi Qaris.

One a side note there is this Mursal hadith of Ibn Abi `Umayr that says:
عَلِيُّ بْنُ إِبْرَاهِيمَ عَنْ أَبِيهِ عَنِ ابْنِ أَبِي عُمَيْرٍ عَمَّنْ ذَكَرَهُ عَنْ أَبِي عَبْدِ اللَّهِ ع قَالَ إِنَّ الْقُرْآنَ نَزَلَ بِالْحُزْنِ فَاقْرَءُوهُ بِالْحُزْنِ
From Abi `Abd Allah said: 'Verily, the Qur'an was revealed in Huzn, so recite in Huzn" (al-Kulayni, al-Kafi, vol. 2, pg. 614, hadith # 2)

But there isn't anything else expounding upon this hadith so there is no way for us to know what the A'immah mean by "huzn".

We do have hadith that Imam Zayn al-`Abideen's recitation was great that people used to be amazed at his great voice . فَقَالَ إِنَّ عَلِيَّ بْنَ الْحُسَيْنِ ع كَانَ يَقْرَأُ فَرُبَّمَا مَرَّ بِهِ الْمَارُّ فَصَعِقَ مِنْ حُسْنِ صَوْتِهِ  (al-Kulayni, al-Kafi, vol. 2, pg. 615)

Wallaahu A`lim,

Nader Zaveri

Ebn Hussein

Re: Shia & the Qur'anic recitation and interpretation
« Reply #2 on: September 12, 2014, 11:10:58 PM »
Assalaamu `Alaykum,

There is no difference in our recitations, we abide by the same tajweed rules as anyone else. The reason why you are noticing the difference is because of the location of the person. Usually those scholar who recite the Qur'an are from Iran, or they are Arab scholars who went to Iran and learned from Iranian, so they have a different style.

Sorry Nader but this is one of the most lamest excuses I repeatedly hear from Shias, I thought you will not come up with such an excuse, I expected something better, bro. So it's because they are Iranian/3ajam from Iran. IF SO then explain to me why us Sunni Iranians recite the Qur'an correctly (yet your top scholars and literally every single Shia Imam I met recites like a clown, heck in Iran even Sunni kids, among them Persians from Laristan, Baloch, Turkmen, Kurds, everyone recites better than a Shia):

Iranian Persian Bandari (non-Arab Shafi'is) Sunnis from south Iran:

http://sonsofsunnah.com/2014/07/29/taraweeh-prayers-in-bandar-abbashormozgan-14352014/

Iranian Baloch (non-Arab Hanafis) from south-east Iran:

http://sonsofsunnah.com/2013/07/29/taraweehjamaah-prayers-by-sunnah-iranians/

Iranian TURKMEN (non-Arab Hanafis) from north-east Iran:



Wallahi not a SINGLE of your scholars can recite the Qur'an as an average Sunni recitor does, never. And I'll tell you the REAL reason by quoting myself from this important thread that was started by the Ex-Shia member Husayn:


3. Not to forget to mention the ugly UN-SUNNAH/ISLAMIC way of reciting the Qur'an. They "recite" the Qur'an as if it is a newspaper (Arab and Persian Rawafidh alike, including the biggest jokes, the "miracles of Allah"/"Ayatullahs"!), wallahi watch any IBADHI/Zaydi or even QADYANI prayer, they all recite better than every single Ayatullat and Rafidah (few exceptions among the Rafidah PROVE the rule and not otherwise!). This is another clear sign that Allah took the sweetness of Iman and Barakah of religious acts from them, whatever they do they look like retards and laughing stocks:

MMuXw


So don't be just technical and theoretical, ya Nader, there is more to that. A cursed nation, the Rafidah who have taken as enemies the Muhajiroon and Ansar (the absolute majority of them), their top scholars who DEFENDED the BELIEF in the DISTORTION of this very Qur'an, these people are of course deprived of the sweetness of Iman and reciting the Qur'an correctly, it's a clear sign from Allah that the so called "true followers" of the Qur'an and 'Itrah are are weakest people in following and reciting the Qur'an.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2014, 11:27:53 PM by Ebn Hussein »
الإمام الشافعي رحمه الله
لم أر أحداً من أهل الأهواء أشهد بالزور من الرافضة! - الخطيب في الكفاية والسوطي.

Imam Al-Shafi3i - may Allah have mercy upon him - said: "I have not seen among the heretics a people more famous for falsehood than the Rafidah." [narrated by Al-Khatib Al-Baghdadi/Al-Kifayah]

Ebn Hussein

Re: Shia & the Qur'anic recitation and interpretation
« Reply #3 on: September 12, 2014, 11:23:56 PM »

Secondly, as far as Shia understanding the Qur'an better, this is what is incorrect, how can people who busy themselves reciting Ziyarat Ashura and other such trivial texts know more than the people who consider the Qur'an the center of their world, and recite it day and night?


The Shia are the weakest when it comes to "understanding" the Qur'an, their books of Tafseer, such as al-Qummi and al-Safi and the like, they are a testament to this fact.

Ayyuwah! Exactly. You know Akhi sometimes I am shocked at how blunt these Rawafid are, I mean come on, have some shame. "Understanding of the Qur'an" ... Rafidah! Seriously?! I mean they have the weakest understanding, they claim their Imam said to throw anything against he wall which goes against the Qur'an yet we always seeing them doing the opposite! They prefer all sorts of Ghulati narrations and Batini Tafsirs over Muhkam Ayat and Mutawatir Ahadith. Also did you realise that the Shia who have a powerful gov. like Iran, have managed to translates loads of books such as ALL the books of Al-Tijani (the Ex-SUFI Tunisian clown whose books have been ALL refuted, every single, unfortunately only available in Arabic and Farsi ... Ahlus-Sunnah are wallah Ghuraba2), they translated tons of political and batini esoterical crap by the pantheist Mushrik Khomeini, Khamenei even translated Sayyid Qutb's Tafsir Fi Dhilal ... (to Farsi), yet not a SINGLE Tafsir book of the Rafidah has been translated into Farsi or English (except FEW selected excerpts), whereas Sunnis have translated epic Tafasir like Tafsir Ibn Kathir DECADES ago into the English language.

Now ask yourself why Shias hesitate to even translate their major Hadith books (even Al-Kafir hasn't been translated and distributed on a larger scale, let alone Bihar Al-Dhulumat wa Al-Khurafat aka "Al-Anwar", except few translations, excerpts and online stuff and all of that just recently!) and in particular their Tafsir books. I know for a fact that most Shias don't read Arabic, but wallahi even if I were still a Shia I'd never translate Al-Kafi(r), it's CHAPTER NAMES alone make you shiver, pure kufr and Zandaqah, their Tafasir are a joke full of Batini/esoterical satanic Tafsir that would make EVERY Muslim laugh and make Shi'ism look more retarded that it already is. I am really not exaggerating, just go online (barely anything from their major works is available in English, remember they are scared) and read Tafsir Al-Qummi, Al-Safi etc. it's a joke and full of Kufr, the only "good" is Tafsir Al-Mizan and guess what, this is the closest to the Sunni Tafsir books (hence the likes of Yasser Al-Habib hate the author Tabatabai and the Tafsir), but even that Tafsir is weak and full of Batini and far-fetched Tafasir.

Alhamdulillah for the Sunnah and I seek refuge in Allah from Rafdh and Tashayyu3, the two cancers that produced nothing good, not even good Qur'an recitors (I mean IMAMS/scholars not some Iranian kids that are treated like the new word wonder just because they recite the Qur'an by heart by listening to ... YES, mostly to Abdul-basit and other Sunni recitors. Such "wonders" can be found everywhere in Pakistan, Somali, Arabia etc.).
الإمام الشافعي رحمه الله
لم أر أحداً من أهل الأهواء أشهد بالزور من الرافضة! - الخطيب في الكفاية والسوطي.

Imam Al-Shafi3i - may Allah have mercy upon him - said: "I have not seen among the heretics a people more famous for falsehood than the Rafidah." [narrated by Al-Khatib Al-Baghdadi/Al-Kifayah]

Ebn Hussein

Re: Shia & the Qur'anic recitation and interpretation
« Reply #4 on: September 13, 2014, 12:04:22 AM »

One a side note there is this Mursal hadith of Ibn Abi `Umayr that says:
عَلِيُّ بْنُ إِبْرَاهِيمَ عَنْ أَبِيهِ عَنِ ابْنِ أَبِي عُمَيْرٍ عَمَّنْ ذَكَرَهُ عَنْ أَبِي عَبْدِ اللَّهِ ع قَالَ إِنَّ الْقُرْآنَ نَزَلَ بِالْحُزْنِ فَاقْرَءُوهُ بِالْحُزْنِ
From Abi `Abd Allah said: 'Verily, the Qur'an was revealed in Huzn, so recite in Huzn" (al-Kulayni, al-Kafi, vol. 2, pg. 614, hadith # 2)

But there isn't anything else expounding upon this hadith so there is no way for us to know what the A'immah mean by "huzn".


As for "Huzn", you rather mean wailing because this is how ARAB NAJAFI Rafidi recite the Qur'an, these people recite eulogies and the Qur'an just like Jews recite their prayers, i.e. always WAILING AND WAILING:




BTW I got this from our stalking brother, hehe:



I say: Well, the Shia "scholars" have miserabely failed to achieve this task ... I mean really bad (their fail).

Check this out:



He needs to go to Qom then and pray behind one of the TOP "scholars" of his choice, he will get the difference and have a laugh on top of it (if he knows how real Muslims recite the Qur'an).

This one really cracked me up:

« Last Edit: September 13, 2014, 12:07:29 AM by Ebn Hussein »
الإمام الشافعي رحمه الله
لم أر أحداً من أهل الأهواء أشهد بالزور من الرافضة! - الخطيب في الكفاية والسوطي.

Imam Al-Shafi3i - may Allah have mercy upon him - said: "I have not seen among the heretics a people more famous for falsehood than the Rafidah." [narrated by Al-Khatib Al-Baghdadi/Al-Kifayah]

Nader Zaveri

Re: Shia & the Qur'anic recitation and interpretation
« Reply #5 on: September 13, 2014, 12:22:00 AM »
Assalāmun `Alaykum,


@Ebn_Hussein,

You've totally misinterpreted what I have said. I am not making an excuse for those people who recite incorrectly. If you make a mistake on tajweed that is wrong doesn't matter where you are from.

I was saying their style, their rhythm in their voice. Not their makhaarij and tajweed.

Hani

Re: Shia & the Qur'anic recitation and interpretation
« Reply #6 on: September 13, 2014, 12:49:59 AM »
Nader isn't saying it depends on nationality, he says it depends on the teachers.


Shia scholars have horrible teachers.
عَلامَةُ أَهْلِ الْبِدَعِ الْوَقِيعَةُ فِي أَهْلِ الأَثَرِ. وَعَلامَةُ الْجَهْمِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُشَبِّهَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الْقَدَرِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُجَبِّرَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الزَّنَادِقَةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ الأَثَرِ حَشْوِيَّةً

Religion = simple & clear

Ebn Hussein

Re: Shia & the Qur'anic recitation and interpretation
« Reply #7 on: September 13, 2014, 01:32:01 AM »
Assalāmun `Alaykum,


@Ebn_Hussein,

You've totally misinterpreted what I have said. I am not making an excuse for those people who recite incorrectly. If you make a mistake on tajweed that is wrong doesn't matter where you are from.

I was saying their style, their rhythm in their voice. Not their makhaarij and tajweed.

Fair enough bro, in this case I agree with you, but my main point stands and Alhamdulillah you agree with me on that.
الإمام الشافعي رحمه الله
لم أر أحداً من أهل الأهواء أشهد بالزور من الرافضة! - الخطيب في الكفاية والسوطي.

Imam Al-Shafi3i - may Allah have mercy upon him - said: "I have not seen among the heretics a people more famous for falsehood than the Rafidah." [narrated by Al-Khatib Al-Baghdadi/Al-Kifayah]

lotfilms

Re: Shia & the Qur'anic recitation and interpretation
« Reply #8 on: September 14, 2014, 07:56:36 AM »
وعليكم السلام
I noticed that Sunnis scholars reciting Qur'an extend the transition (fairly long) from one ayah to the next
There's hadiths that say that the Prophet(pbuh) would elongate the ends of verses.......

And i would say that the vast, vast majority of Shaykhs do this, whether they be Sunnis or Shias.  For example here is the son of Khomeini:

(side note: what a beautiful and soothing recitation masha'Allah)


I prefer the Shia recitations more, they allow me to focus on salaat more and less about the style of the recitation."
This quote is actually substantial in that it perfectly illustrates one of the major differences between average modern Shias and average modern Sunnis in approaching the deen.
The focus of average modern Shias is trying to understand the inner heart of the religion whereas the average modern Sunni is very much focused on the outside and following rules.

So applying the two above:
You'll find quite a number of average modern Shias (particualrly in the West) who are into stuff like 'irfan, philosophy, and tafseer of the Quran, but they can't even read a page of the Quran correctly in Arabic with tajweed.
And you'll find quite a number of average modern Sunnis who can read the Quran well alhamdulillah and know the various rules of tajweed and wuqoof, but their understanding of the ayahs they're reading is very shallow.

Wheres both understanding and connecting to the heart of the religion is needed, as well as following the outside rules.

This is my personal observation from the limited world that i see.

And Allah(swt) knows best.

Hadrami

Re: Shia & the Qur'anic recitation and interpretation
« Reply #9 on: September 14, 2014, 10:41:33 AM »
I'd say the main difference is about priority. I mean i would never expect anyone to know the inner heart of any sciences, let alone something as important as this, if they don't even know the basics. If he/she can't even learn to recite properly, what is the chance of someone like that to learn, let alone understand the "inner heart" of it? Just imagine, if they can't even learn to walk properly, how do you expect them to run? It's a basic common sense.

It is correct though about many sunni who could recite it perfectly and yet you dont see it in their daily lives, but to say shia are less like that is really hilarious. Havent you seen how pompous and hysterical shia are in their understanding & application of their beliefs? They are more concern about politic & questionable history more than anything else. Talk to shia about Islam and I always ended up in political, wars, conspiracy theory etc issues. Really don't understand where you get the "modern Shias is trying to understand the inner heart of the religion...modern Sunni is very much focused on the outside and following rules" conclusion from.

PS: Is repeating just 1 surah a sunnah for shia? Yes it's soothing, but again bad recitation (i mean tajweed and its pronounciation) for someone who suppose to be learned & has high ranking. Im not saying that because he's a shia. If its all about rythm then any good singer should be able to do it better than most people.
« Last Edit: September 14, 2014, 11:01:00 AM by Hadrami »

Hani

Re: Shia & the Qur'anic recitation and interpretation
« Reply #10 on: September 14, 2014, 03:19:27 PM »
@lotfilms,


You have one unique rare experience my friend,


Because from the experience of 99% of humanity, at least here in the middle east which is where the Imamiyyah are based, the Shia of today have nothing to do with the Qur'an, not its recitation, not its grammar, not its preservation, CERTAINLY NOT ITS INTERPRETATION.


Some Shi`ee clowns are interested in diving into philosophy and `irfan and such, well that's why Sufiyyah are there, they might as well go and become Sufis as the Sufiyyah and Ahlul-Kalaam are lightyears ahead when it comes to these issues.


But Shia understanding the Qur'an is something unheard of, and I'm not just talking about the Mutashabih, but the Muhkam of the Qur'an as well.

As for Khomayni's son's recitation, it's hideous.
« Last Edit: September 14, 2014, 03:21:57 PM by Hani »
عَلامَةُ أَهْلِ الْبِدَعِ الْوَقِيعَةُ فِي أَهْلِ الأَثَرِ. وَعَلامَةُ الْجَهْمِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُشَبِّهَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الْقَدَرِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُجَبِّرَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الزَّنَادِقَةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ الأَثَرِ حَشْوِيَّةً

Religion = simple & clear

Hadrami

Re: Shia & the Qur'anic recitation and interpretation
« Reply #11 on: September 14, 2014, 03:53:00 PM »
agree 100% with Hani. Just look at that video. Those shia can't even wait for khomeini's son to stand, looks like they are in some sort of a race or something. They can't even follow the imam properly, let alone know what the inner heart of salat is. Yep, average shia is "superior" when it comes to "race the imam" in solat compare to average sunni. It's really frustrating seeing someone like lotfilms who seems like a reasonable guy and yet often making stupid claim like this.

PS: i guess those average shia were so into the "inner heart" of prayer that they forgot to follow the imam  ;)
« Last Edit: September 14, 2014, 04:07:35 PM by Hadrami »

Hani

Re: Shia & the Qur'anic recitation and interpretation
« Reply #12 on: September 14, 2014, 09:47:27 PM »
btw I talked to brother lotfilms, if you re-read his post you'll realize that we misread it, he never said "Shia understand the Qur'an better" obviously since this statement is a felony against human intellect, he only said they focus more on understanding it... which is their excuse.
عَلامَةُ أَهْلِ الْبِدَعِ الْوَقِيعَةُ فِي أَهْلِ الأَثَرِ. وَعَلامَةُ الْجَهْمِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُشَبِّهَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الْقَدَرِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُجَبِّرَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الزَّنَادِقَةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ الأَثَرِ حَشْوِيَّةً

Religion = simple & clear

 

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