TwelverShia.net Forum

Surah Abasa

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

scusemyenglish

Re: Surah Abasa
« Reply #20 on: July 13, 2016, 12:10:27 AM »
It's true that Some shia are agree with us ? about the fact that "He frowed" it's linked to the messenger puh?
Abou Hourayra narrated that the messenger saws said:

"“There will come to the people years
of treachery (...) the Ruwaibidhah will decide matters.”
It was said

 'Who are the Ruwaibidhah?'

The Prophet replied:

 “Vile and
ignorant men who will speak in the affairs of the people.”

ShiaMan

Re: Surah Abasa
« Reply #21 on: July 13, 2016, 12:37:09 AM »
It's true that Some shia are agree with us ? about the fact that "He frowed" it's linked to the messenger puh?

The shias with knowledge do not agree with you. Is it possible that someone other than the Prophet is also being referred to in the Surah. The text interchanges between you and he/him?

Solomon

Re: Surah Abasa
« Reply #22 on: July 13, 2016, 06:28:18 AM »
It's true that Some shia are agree with us ? about the fact that "He frowed" it's linked to the messenger puh?

So brother,do you think such a harsh rebuke from God and this lowly act is attributed to prophet(s)??
"O Apostle! Deliver what has been sent down to you from your Lord; and if you don't do it, you have not delivered His message (at all); and Allah will protect you from the people ..." (Qur'an 5:67)
Messenger of Allah said:
"For whoever I am his mawla, 'Ali is his mawla."

scusemyenglish

Re: Surah Abasa
« Reply #23 on: July 13, 2016, 09:25:34 AM »
It's true that Some shia are agree with us ? about the fact that "He frowed" it's linked to the messenger puh?

So brother,do you think such a harsh rebuke from God and this lowly act is attributed to prophet(s)??

Salam Bro.

It's not against you but I have read our scholars they forbid to debate with those we consider like "innovators".

Honnestly I 'm totally convinced that our scholars are above scholars of other group.

For be convinced of that, it sufficient to see the advice of our scholars since many centurie about the prediction about the futur.

When you see Nawawi knew Irak will be under umbargo, Bukhari knew one day all people will live with riba ... It's difficult for me to imagine our scholars made mistake when they talk about Surah Abasa or the fact that Ali was near of Abou Bakr and Omar...

Methodology of our scholars is largely above other group because  when they give an advice they gathered all proofs about one subjet. And the man who was strong with this methodology was Ibn Taymiya.

Our scholars forbide to debates with those whe consider like innovator even if you are a scholar! So imagine for simple man like us. Since Imam Malik . And they take this advice from the Qu'ran.

I hope you undersand, dear brother in humanity, my wish to not debate but also follow advice of Jama'a. Because we are for the peace around Ali, Abou Bakr, Aicha, Omar etc... Not the perpetual war.

Barak Allah ou fik .
« Last Edit: July 13, 2016, 09:31:20 AM by scusemyenglish »
Abou Hourayra narrated that the messenger saws said:

"“There will come to the people years
of treachery (...) the Ruwaibidhah will decide matters.”
It was said

 'Who are the Ruwaibidhah?'

The Prophet replied:

 “Vile and
ignorant men who will speak in the affairs of the people.”

Solomon

Re: Surah Abasa
« Reply #24 on: July 13, 2016, 11:01:00 AM »
^
I always try to discuss issues rather than debating, as islam directs.
 
No brother, i am also a layman not any academic scholar.

Wssalam
« Last Edit: July 13, 2016, 11:03:14 AM by Solomon »
"O Apostle! Deliver what has been sent down to you from your Lord; and if you don't do it, you have not delivered His message (at all); and Allah will protect you from the people ..." (Qur'an 5:67)
Messenger of Allah said:
"For whoever I am his mawla, 'Ali is his mawla."

al-kulayni

Re: Surah Abasa
« Reply #25 on: July 13, 2016, 01:03:21 PM »
Assalamu Aleykum akhi,

Tabarsi in his tafsir Majmu Al Bayan give two options to this verse :

- This verse concerne the prophet (saws) and for Tabarsi, "he" in this verse was the Prophet (s), he answers to the question was it a sin to frown and turn away from the blind man ? Tabarsi answers by saying to smile or to make a face to a blind man is the same thing (because the man doesn't see anything). For him it's not a problem if the Prophet was blamed by Allah because Allah wanted to improve his behavior and to show him the great position of a mu'min.
- This verse concerne one man from Bani Umayyah

فإن قيل فلو صح الخبر الأول هل يكون العبوس ذنباً أم لا فالجواب أن العبوس والانبساط مع الأعمى سواء إذ لا يشق عليه ذلك فلا يكون ذنباً فيجوز أن يكون عاتب الله سبحانه بذلك نبيه صلى الله عليه وسلم ليأخذه بأوفر محاسن الأخلاقوينبّهه بذلك على عظم حال المؤمن المسترشد ويعرفه أن تأليف المؤمن ليقيم على إيمانه أولى من تأليف المشرك طمعاً في إيمانه
http://lib.eshia.ir/12023/10/266

Ayatullah Tabatabai says in his Tafsir Al Meezan that there are sunni reports saying the story about Ibn Um Maktoum the blind man and the Prophet (s) and then he says "in some shia reports, we have some indications towards that story"
 وردت الروايات من طرق أهل السنة أن الآيات نزلت في قصة ابن أم مكتوم الأعمى دخل على النبي صلى‌الله‌عليه‌وآله وعنده قوم من صناديد قريش يناجيهم في أمر الإسلام فعبس النبي عنه فعاتبه الله تعالى بهذه الآيات وفي بعض الأخبار من طرق الشيعة إشارة إلى ذلك.

And then he says in some shia reports, it was a man from Bani Umayyah :
وفي بعض روايات الشيعة أن العابس المتولي رجل من بني أمية
« Last Edit: July 13, 2016, 01:05:07 PM by al-kulayni »

ShiaMan

Re: Surah Abasa
« Reply #26 on: July 13, 2016, 06:03:58 PM »
Assalamu Aleykum akhi,

Tabarsi in his tafsir Majmu Al Bayan give two options to this verse :

- This verse concerne the prophet (saws) and for Tabarsi, "he" in this verse was the Prophet (s), he answers to the question was it a sin to frown and turn away from the blind man ? Tabarsi answers by saying to smile or to make a face to a blind man is the same thing (because the man doesn't see anything). For him it's not a problem if the Prophet was blamed by Allah because Allah wanted to improve his behavior and to show him the great position of a mu'min.
- This verse concerne one man from Bani Umayyah

فإن قيل فلو صح الخبر الأول هل يكون العبوس ذنباً أم لا فالجواب أن العبوس والانبساط مع الأعمى سواء إذ لا يشق عليه ذلك فلا يكون ذنباً فيجوز أن يكون عاتب الله سبحانه بذلك نبيه صلى الله عليه وسلم ليأخذه بأوفر محاسن الأخلاقوينبّهه بذلك على عظم حال المؤمن المسترشد ويعرفه أن تأليف المؤمن ليقيم على إيمانه أولى من تأليف المشرك طمعاً في إيمانه
http://lib.eshia.ir/12023/10/266

Ayatullah Tabatabai says in his Tafsir Al Meezan that there are sunni reports saying the story about Ibn Um Maktoum the blind man and the Prophet (s) and then he says "in some shia reports, we have some indications towards that story"
 وردت الروايات من طرق أهل السنة أن الآيات نزلت في قصة ابن أم مكتوم الأعمى دخل على النبي صلى‌الله‌عليه‌وآله وعنده قوم من صناديد قريش يناجيهم في أمر الإسلام فعبس النبي عنه فعاتبه الله تعالى بهذه الآيات وفي بعض الأخبار من طرق الشيعة إشارة إلى ذلك.

And then he says in some shia reports, it was a man from Bani Umayyah :
وفي بعض روايات الشيعة أن العابس المتولي رجل من بني أمية


we haven't even gotten to the various tafsirs and mizans yet. Simple question that you guys are having a hard time answering.

Does the Surah refer to 3 people (blind man, he/him, you) in the conversation or 2 people (blind man and you/he/him)?

It is a simple question folks.

Noor-us-Sunnah

Re: Surah Abasa
« Reply #27 on: July 14, 2016, 07:09:20 AM »
Assalamu Aleykum akhi,

Tabarsi in his tafsir Majmu Al Bayan give two options to this verse :

- This verse concerne the prophet (saws) and for Tabarsi, "he" in this verse was the Prophet (s), he answers to the question was it a sin to frown and turn away from the blind man ? Tabarsi answers by saying to smile or to make a face to a blind man is the same thing (because the man doesn't see anything). For him it's not a problem if the Prophet was blamed by Allah because Allah wanted to improve his behavior and to show him the great position of a mu'min.
- This verse concerne one man from Bani Umayyah

فإن قيل فلو صح الخبر الأول هل يكون العبوس ذنباً أم لا فالجواب أن العبوس والانبساط مع الأعمى سواء إذ لا يشق عليه ذلك فلا يكون ذنباً فيجوز أن يكون عاتب الله سبحانه بذلك نبيه صلى الله عليه وسلم ليأخذه بأوفر محاسن الأخلاقوينبّهه بذلك على عظم حال المؤمن المسترشد ويعرفه أن تأليف المؤمن ليقيم على إيمانه أولى من تأليف المشرك طمعاً في إيمانه
http://lib.eshia.ir/12023/10/266

Ayatullah Tabatabai says in his Tafsir Al Meezan that there are sunni reports saying the story about Ibn Um Maktoum the blind man and the Prophet (s) and then he says "in some shia reports, we have some indications towards that story"
 وردت الروايات من طرق أهل السنة أن الآيات نزلت في قصة ابن أم مكتوم الأعمى دخل على النبي صلى‌الله‌عليه‌وآله وعنده قوم من صناديد قريش يناجيهم في أمر الإسلام فعبس النبي عنه فعاتبه الله تعالى بهذه الآيات وفي بعض الأخبار من طرق الشيعة إشارة إلى ذلك.

And then he says in some shia reports, it was a man from Bani Umayyah :
وفي بعض روايات الشيعة أن العابس المتولي رجل من بني أمية


we haven't even gotten to the various tafsirs and mizans yet. Simple question that you guys are having a hard time answering.

Does the Surah refer to 3 people (blind man, he/him, you) in the conversation or 2 people (blind man and you/he/him)?

It is a simple question folks.
LOL. Desperation.

Solomon

Re: Surah Abasa
« Reply #28 on: July 14, 2016, 07:37:09 AM »
Assalamu Aleykum akhi,

Tabarsi in his tafsir Majmu Al Bayan give two options to this verse :

- This verse concerne the prophet (saws) and for Tabarsi, "he" in this verse was the Prophet (s), he answers to the question was it a sin to frown and turn away from the blind man ? Tabarsi answers by saying to smile or to make a face to a blind man is the same thing (because the man doesn't see anything). For him it's not a problem if the Prophet was blamed by Allah because Allah wanted to improve his behavior and to show him the great position of a mu'min.
- This verse concerne one man from Bani Umayyah

فإن قيل فلو صح الخبر الأول هل يكون العبوس ذنباً أم لا فالجواب أن العبوس والانبساط مع الأعمى سواء إذ لا يشق عليه ذلك فلا يكون ذنباً فيجوز أن يكون عاتب الله سبحانه بذلك نبيه صلى الله عليه وسلم ليأخذه بأوفر محاسن الأخلاقوينبّهه بذلك على عظم حال المؤمن المسترشد ويعرفه أن تأليف المؤمن ليقيم على إيمانه أولى من تأليف المشرك طمعاً في إيمانه
http://lib.eshia.ir/12023/10/266

Ayatullah Tabatabai says in his Tafsir Al Meezan that there are sunni reports saying the story about Ibn Um Maktoum the blind man and the Prophet (s) and then he says "in some shia reports, we have some indications towards that story"
 وردت الروايات من طرق أهل السنة أن الآيات نزلت في قصة ابن أم مكتوم الأعمى دخل على النبي صلى‌الله‌عليه‌وآله وعنده قوم من صناديد قريش يناجيهم في أمر الإسلام فعبس النبي عنه فعاتبه الله تعالى بهذه الآيات وفي بعض الأخبار من طرق الشيعة إشارة إلى ذلك.

And then he says in some shia reports, it was a man from Bani Umayyah :
وفي بعض روايات الشيعة أن العابس المتولي رجل من بني أمية

Yep akhi, you said correct as  sunnis have tradtion it was prophet and few shia tradition compilations consist the same. But few not all.Other tradition says it was Usman bin Affan who has been harshly rebuked.
As for the tradition which points it was prophet(s) goes against quran. Isn't it?

Secondly ,Do you consider the third person(HE) is prophet(s)?

Wssalam
« Last Edit: July 14, 2016, 07:42:02 AM by Solomon »
"O Apostle! Deliver what has been sent down to you from your Lord; and if you don't do it, you have not delivered His message (at all); and Allah will protect you from the people ..." (Qur'an 5:67)
Messenger of Allah said:
"For whoever I am his mawla, 'Ali is his mawla."

ShiaMan

Re: Surah Abasa
« Reply #29 on: July 14, 2016, 07:37:16 PM »
LOL. Desperation.

Yep akhi, you said correct as  sunnis have tradtion it was prophet and few shia tradition compilations consist the same. But few not all.Other tradition says it was Usman bin Affan who has been harshly rebuked.
As for the tradition which points it was prophet(s) goes against quran. Isn't it?

Secondly ,Do you consider the third person(HE) is prophet(s)?

Wssalam


It seems like my brothers have a hard time understand the Quran so they keep putting out explanations A, B, C, etc.

Let me color code it for you guys:
Surah Abasa:

[Quran 80:1] He frowned and turned (his) back,
[Quran 80:2] Because there came to him the blind man.
[Quran 80:3] And what would make you know that he would purify himself,
[Quran 80:4] Or become reminded so that the reminder should profit him?
[Quran 80:5] As for him who considers himself free from need (of you),
[Quran 80:6] To him do you address yourself.
[Quran 80:7] And no blame is on you if he would not purify himself
[Quran 80:8] And as to him who comes to you striving hard,
[Quran 80:9] And he fears,
[Quran 80:10] From him will you divert yourself.
[Quran 80:11] Nay! surely it is an admonishment.

All I have done above is split out blind man, him/he/himself and you/yourself.

Even within this, him is used to refer to the blind man and another person.

Surely, we guys understand this.

Solomon

Re: Surah Abasa
« Reply #30 on: July 15, 2016, 06:58:10 AM »
It seems like my brothers have a hard time understand the Quran so they keep putting out explanations A, B, C, etc.

Let me color code it for you guys:
Surah Abasa:

[Quran 80:1] He frowned and turned (his) back,
[Quran 80:2] Because there came to him the blind man.
[Quran 80:3] And what would make you know that he would purify himself,
[Quran 80:4] Or become reminded so that the reminder should profit him?
[Quran 80:5] As for him who considers himself free from need (of you),
[Quran 80:6] To him do you address yourself.
[Quran 80:7] And no blame is on you if he would not purify himself
[Quran 80:8] And as to him who comes to you striving hard,
[Quran 80:9] And he fears,
[Quran 80:10] From him will you divert yourself.
[Quran 80:11] Nay! surely it is an admonishment.

All I have done above is split out blind man, him/he/himself and you/yourself.

Even within this, him is used to refer to the blind man and another person.

Surely, we guys understand this.
Salam,
Yep bro, this was not the first time ppl fabricated/spoke against prophet/imam in order to save the honor of their tribe/themselves.
"O Apostle! Deliver what has been sent down to you from your Lord; and if you don't do it, you have not delivered His message (at all); and Allah will protect you from the people ..." (Qur'an 5:67)
Messenger of Allah said:
"For whoever I am his mawla, 'Ali is his mawla."

Rationalist

Re: Surah Abasa
« Reply #31 on: July 16, 2016, 05:44:51 PM »
Salam,
Yep bro, this was not the first time ppl fabricated/spoke against prophet/imam in order to save the honor of their tribe/themselves.
And those who said the Quran is incomplete in your sect are still momins?

Bolani Muslim

Re: Surah Abasa
« Reply #32 on: July 17, 2016, 02:30:06 AM »
It seems like my brothers have a hard time understand the Quran so they keep putting out explanations A, B, C, etc.

Let me color code it for you guys:
Surah Abasa:

[Quran 80:1] He frowned and turned (his) back,
[Quran 80:2] Because there came to him the blind man.
[Quran 80:3] And what would make you know that he would purify himself,
[Quran 80:4] Or become reminded so that the reminder should profit him?
[Quran 80:5] As for him who considers himself free from need (of you),
[Quran 80:6] To him do you address yourself.
[Quran 80:7] And no blame is on you if he would not purify himself
[Quran 80:8] And as to him who comes to you striving hard,
[Quran 80:9] And he fears,
[Quran 80:10] From him will you divert yourself.
[Quran 80:11] Nay! surely it is an admonishment.

All I have done above is split out blind man, him/he/himself and you/yourself.

Even within this, him is used to refer to the blind man and another person.

Surely, we guys understand this.
Do you speak any other languages? A simple example is ¿Cómo está? can mean 'How are you?' or "How is s/he?' whereas ¿Cómo estás? means 'How are you?' but is different then 'How are you?' in ¿Cómo está?. I can give other examples in Farsi.

Firstly, we don't base Quran rulings and interpretations off meaning in English, because we would then fall into the same problems as the Christians. Hope you understand and if you speak another language, will realize the problem. Your argument is baseless as it's not based off the original language of the Quran.

Solomon

Re: Surah Abasa
« Reply #33 on: July 17, 2016, 08:42:03 AM »
It seems like my brothers have a hard time understand the Quran so they keep putting out explanations A, B, C, etc.

Let me color code it for you guys:
Surah Abasa:

[Quran 80:1] He frowned and turned (his) back,
[Quran 80:2] Because there came to him the blind man.
[Quran 80:3] And what would make you know that he would purify himself,
[Quran 80:4] Or become reminded so that the reminder should profit him?
[Quran 80:5] As for him who considers himself free from need (of you),
[Quran 80:6] To him do you address yourself.
[Quran 80:7] And no blame is on you if he would not purify himself
[Quran 80:8] And as to him who comes to you striving hard,
[Quran 80:9] And he fears,
[Quran 80:10] From him will you divert yourself.
[Quran 80:11] Nay! surely it is an admonishment.

All I have done above is split out blind man, him/he/himself and you/yourself.

Even within this, him is used to refer to the blind man and another person.

Surely, we guys understand this.
Do you speak any other languages? A simple example is ¿Cómo está? can mean 'How are you?' or "How is s/he?' whereas ¿Cómo estás? means 'How are you?' but is different then 'How are you?' in ¿Cómo está?. I can give other examples in Farsi.

Firstly, we don't base Quran rulings and interpretations off meaning in English, because we would then fall into the same problems as the Christians. Hope you understand and if you speak another language, will realize the problem. Your argument is baseless as it's not based off the original language of the Quran.

Nope sister,u misunderstood, its the same third person in english as in arabic,u can go thru word by word arabic-english translation with grammar.
http://corpus.quran.com/wordbyword.jsp?chapter=80&verse=1
"O Apostle! Deliver what has been sent down to you from your Lord; and if you don't do it, you have not delivered His message (at all); and Allah will protect you from the people ..." (Qur'an 5:67)
Messenger of Allah said:
"For whoever I am his mawla, 'Ali is his mawla."

Bolani Muslim

Re: Surah Abasa
« Reply #34 on: July 17, 2016, 11:07:08 AM »
^Firstly, I'm a boy. Secondly, my point still stands. If you spoke another language besides English, then you would be able to understand. Unless you speak fluent Arabic, your post is meaningless.

Solomon

Re: Surah Abasa
« Reply #35 on: July 17, 2016, 11:47:58 AM »
^   ;)
"O Apostle! Deliver what has been sent down to you from your Lord; and if you don't do it, you have not delivered His message (at all); and Allah will protect you from the people ..." (Qur'an 5:67)
Messenger of Allah said:
"For whoever I am his mawla, 'Ali is his mawla."

fgss

Re: Surah Abasa
« Reply #36 on: July 17, 2016, 04:55:29 PM »
In view of the apparent style with which the discourse opens, one feels that in this Surah Allah has expressed His displeasure against the Holy Prophet (upon whom be peace) for his treating the blind man with indifference and attending to the big chiefs exclusively. But when the whole Surah is considered objectively, one finds that the displeasure, in fact, has been expressed against the disbelieving Quraish, who because of their arrogant attitude and indifference to the truth, were rejecting with contempt the message of truth being conveyed by the Holy Prophet (upon whom be peace).

This is the theme of vv. 1-16. From verse 17 onward the rebuke directly turns to the disbelievers, who were repudiating the invitation of the Holy Messenger of Allah (upon whom be peace). In this, first they have been reproved for their attitude which they had adopted against their Creator, Providence and Sustainer. In the end, they have been warned of the dreadful fate that they would meet in consequence of their conduct on the Day of Resurrection.

http://englishtafsir.com/Quran/80/index.html
إِنَّ أَصْدَقَ الْحَدِيثِ كِتَابُ اللَّهِ وَأَحْسَنَ الْهَدْىِ هَدْىُ مُحَمَّدٍ وَشَرَّ الأُمُورِ مُحْدَثَاتُهَا وَكُلَّ مُحْدَثَةٍ بِدْعَةٌ وَكُلَّ بِدْعَةٍ ضَلاَلَةٌ وَكُلَّ ضَلاَلَةٍ فِي النَّارِ

May Allah guide us to the true teachings of Quran and Sunnah of His beloved Prophet (s.a.w.w). Ameen

ShiaMan

Re: Surah Abasa
« Reply #37 on: July 18, 2016, 08:32:42 PM »
^Firstly, I'm a boy. Secondly, my point still stands. If you spoke another language besides English, then you would be able to understand. Unless you speak fluent Arabic, your post is meaningless.

Ok, then let's teach other Arabic and English at the same time. for references I will use readquranonline.org:

عَبَسَ وَتَوَلَّىِٰ
AAabasa watawalla
عَبَسَ
He frowned
 
وَتَوَلَّىٰٓ
and turned away,


Every single translator on that site refers to "He".

Next verse:
أَنْ جَاءَهُ الْأَعْمَىِٰ
An jaahu alaAAma
أَن
Because
 
جَآءَهُ
came to him
 
ٱلۡأَعۡمَىٰ
the blind man.


Every single translator uses "him"

Verse 3:
وَمَا يُدْرِيكَ لَعَلَّهُ يَزَّكَّىِٰ
Wama yudreeka laAAallahu yazzakka
وَمَا
But what
 
يُدۡرِيكَ
would make you know
 
لَعَلَّهُ ۥ
that he might
 
يَزَّكَّىٰٓ
purify himself,


Now, a "you" is mentioned.

We have already seen that all the translators agree there is a blind man, a "he/him" and a "you" mentioned.

So far so good?

 

Related Topics

  Subject / Started by Replies Last post
0 Replies
1542 Views
Last post May 20, 2015, 11:31:36 PM
by Bolani Muslim
25 Replies
1210 Views
Last post January 20, 2020, 04:21:00 AM
by Rationalist