TwelverShia.net Forum

Changing of Qur'an in sunni hadith (Stop claiming shias believe in Tahreef)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

labelingtheory


Narrated Aisha 'The verse of stoning and of suckling an adult ten times were revealed, and they were (written) on a paper and kept under my bed. When the Messenger of Allah (SAWW.) expired and we were preoccupied with his death, a goat entered and ate away the paper."

Here is this hadith:
حدثنا أبو سلمة يحيى بن خلف حدثنا عبد الأعلى عن محمد بن إسحق عن عبد الله بن أبي بكر عن عمرة عن عائشة و عن عبد الرحمن بن القاسم عن أبيه عن عائشة قالت لقد نزلت آية الرجم ورضاعة الكبير عشرا ولقد كان في صحيفة تحت سريري فلما مات رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم وتشاغلنا بموته دخل داجن فأكلها
Source:
Ibn Maajah, Sunan, vol. 4, pg. 444, hadeeth # 1944
Grading:
Al-Albaani said this hadeeth is Hasan

-----------------------------

If you guys are going to find unreliable hadith that no shia believes in, then I will quote this hadith about the changing of the Qur'an in the sunni tradition to claim all sunnis believe in Tahreef.

Stop claiming Shias believe in tahreef. Thanks.

« Last Edit: February 23, 2015, 10:02:20 AM by labelingtheory »

Farid

Alsalam alaykum wa rahmatullah!

Welcome to the boards, brother. Inshallah your stay here will be a beneficial one.

There are authentic narrations in both Sunni and Shia books that the verse of stoning were in the Qur'an. Both schools suggest that the verse were abrogated. That being said, it does not matter if a goat eats a paper that includes an abrogated verse.

Heck, even if the verse was not abrogated, it is ridiculous to believe that nobody memorized it. =)

Rationalist



Stop claiming Shias believe in tahreef. Thanks.

Nobody has said that 100% of the 12er Shia population believes it. However, your sect does not call 12ers who believe in it as non-Muslims.

labelingtheory



Stop claiming Shias believe in tahreef. Thanks.

Nobody has said that 100% of the 12er Shia population believes it. However, your sect does not call 12ers who believe in it as non-Muslims.

Just to make it clear and simple because you have fooled people like Bolani Muslim and others into thinking we do believe in tahreef.

1. Stop claiming that we believe in this terrible practice, you just admitted we don't so you can end it now.
2. If people believe in it, why does it matter so much to you that they are called kaffirs? What is the obsession with Sunni Islam and calling everyone else a kaffir? Islam is not about that. Even Ibn taymiyyah said not to take muslims outside the folds of Islam, that is a grave Sin and you have to be 100% sure before you ever make a statement like that.


What about Misyar, why aren't sunnis who practice it called adulterers? Or why aren't people in ISIS called kaffirs by your scholars? You care so much about kaffirs... how about you worry about yourself?

MuslimK

  • *****
  • Total likes: 255
  • +11/-0
  • یا مقلب القلوب ثبت قلبی علی دینک
    • Refuting Shia allegations everywhere
  • Religion: Sunni
@ labelingtheory,

Brother, nobody said that every Shia layman or scholar believe in the corruption of the Quran but what we say that MANY giants and leaders of your sect believed in the corruption of the Quran. Not only that but narrations about Tahreef are in thousands in your books and Majlisi, I am sure you know, said that "narrations about Tahreef Quran are mutawatir and no less than the narrations about Imamah, so if a Shia wants to reject Tahrif then he has to reject Imamah as well".

The Question is why did many of your classical and other top scholars believed in the corruption of Quran? Some reasons:
- They were influenced by the teachings of Ibn Saba, who was an enemy of Islam.
- They couldn't find Shia beliefs in the Quran so they invented this dangerous belief.
- The other reason was to attack the Sahaba, they accused the Sahaba of every bad thing so they also accused them of corrupting the Quran.
« Last Edit: February 23, 2015, 01:56:57 PM by AbuMuslimKhorasani »
در خلافت میل نیست ای بی‌خبر
میل کی آید ز بوبکر و عمر
میل اگر بودی در آن دو مقتدا
هر دو کردندی پسر را پیشوا

عطار نِیشابوری

www.Nahjul-Balagha.net | www.TwelverShia.net | www.ghadirkhumm.com

Rationalist


2. If people believe in it, why does it matter so much to you that they are called kaffirs? What is the obsession with Sunni Islam and calling everyone else a kaffir? Islam is not about that. Even Ibn taymiyyah said not to take muslims outside the folds of Islam, that is a grave Sin and you have to be 100% sure before you ever make a statement like that.
Sorry bro when it comes to the Quran there is no exception. If you believe a person is still a Muslim then that's your problem. However, those who believe the Quran is incomplete are no different then those who do not believe in the finality of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)
Quote
What about Misyar, why aren't sunnis who practice it called adulterers? Or why aren't people in ISIS called kaffirs by your scholars? You care so much about kaffirs... how about you worry about yourself?
There are many Sunni scholars against them.
As for kufr did Imam Ali (as) call the Khawarij Kaffir ?

Husayn



Stop claiming Shias believe in tahreef. Thanks.

Nobody has said that 100% of the 12er Shia population believes it. However, your sect does not call 12ers who believe in it as non-Muslims.

Just to make it clear and simple because you have fooled people like Bolani Muslim and others into thinking we do believe in tahreef.

1. Stop claiming that we believe in this terrible practice, you just admitted we don't so you can end it now.
2. If people believe in it, why does it matter so much to you that they are called kaffirs? What is the obsession with Sunni Islam and calling everyone else a kaffir? Islam is not about that. Even Ibn taymiyyah said not to take muslims outside the folds of Islam, that is a grave Sin and you have to be 100% sure before you ever make a statement like that.


What about Misyar, why aren't sunnis who practice it called adulterers? Or why aren't people in ISIS called kaffirs by your scholars? You care so much about kaffirs... how about you worry about yourself?

I once had a friend ask Ayatollah al-Ansari about whether the Qur'an is changed - and the Ayatollah winked at him and told him "you can't know for sure".

There is no doubt that many high ranking learned ones of the 12vers believe that the Qur'an was changed - they just don't usually spout this to the rabble, because it would harm their sensibilities (unless you are in a Husayniah and the learned is in an especially honest mood).
إن يتبعون إلا الظن وما تهوى الأنفس

Hani

Just to make it clear and simple because you have fooled people like Bolani Muslim and others into thinking we do believe in tahreef.

1. Stop claiming that we believe in this terrible practice, you just admitted we don't so you can end it now.
2. If people believe in it, why does it matter so much to you that they are called kaffirs? What is the obsession with Sunni Islam and calling everyone else a kaffir? Islam is not about that. Even Ibn taymiyyah said not to take muslims outside the folds of Islam, that is a grave Sin and you have to be 100% sure before you ever make a statement like that.


What about Misyar, why aren't sunnis who practice it called adulterers? Or why aren't people in ISIS called kaffirs by your scholars? You care so much about kaffirs... how about you worry about yourself?

For the love of God, check the RULES of Misyar before you liken it to Mut`ah:

-The agreement of both parties
-Two legal witnesses >> unlike Mut`ah.
-Permission of guardian >> unlike a lot of cases on Mut`ah
-The payment by the husband to his wife of Mahr in the amount that is agreed
-The absence of a fixed time period for the contract >> unlike Mut`ah
-She is counted as one of the four wives not as a rented/slave girl >> unlike Mut`ah
-She inherits and receives whatever right any wife would receive >> unlike Mut`ah
-Conditions, Any particular stipulations which the two parties agree to include in the contract and which are in conformity with Muslim marriage law.

More importantly, some Sunni scholars and organizations that have opposed the concept of Nikah Misyar altogether. Unlike Mut`ah which is a part of Shia faith and cannot be opposed.

As for "Isis", most scholars oppose them and encourage fighting them.
« Last Edit: February 23, 2015, 04:05:05 PM by Hani »
عَلامَةُ أَهْلِ الْبِدَعِ الْوَقِيعَةُ فِي أَهْلِ الأَثَرِ. وَعَلامَةُ الْجَهْمِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُشَبِّهَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الْقَدَرِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُجَبِّرَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الزَّنَادِقَةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ الأَثَرِ حَشْوِيَّةً

Religion = simple & clear

Ameen

Brothers the problem here is when we want to paint a bad and ugly picture about any particular religion, communtiy, sect etc then one picks and choses bits and pices and tries to force others to believe that the whole picture is as such. This is exactly what is happening here and Shiaism is the target!

Bolani Muslim

Labeling Theory when did I say all shias believe in Tahrif? I said your top scholars like Majlisi believed it and showed you proof (even a shia saying he did wrong ijtihad).


Rationalist

Re: Changing of Qur'an in sunni hadith (Stop claiming shias believe in Tahreef)
« Reply #10 on: February 24, 2015, 04:03:04 AM »
Brothers the problem here is when we want to paint a bad and ugly picture about any particular religion, communtiy, sect etc then one picks and choses bits and pices and tries to force others to believe that the whole picture is as such. This is exactly what is happening here and Shiaism is the target!
Rafidism is the target not Shiaism. There is a big difference.
In Yemen Sunnis and Zaidi Shia have one mosque, and they pray behind each other.

[ Invalid YouTube link ]

labelingtheory

Re: Changing of Qur'an in sunni hadith (Stop claiming shias believe in Tahreef)
« Reply #11 on: February 24, 2015, 08:09:24 AM »
@ labelingtheory,

Brother, nobody said that every Shia layman or scholar believe in the corruption of the Quran but what we say that MANY giants and leaders of your sect believed in the corruption of the Quran. Not only that but narrations about Tahreef are in thousands in your books and Majlisi, I am sure you know, said that "narrations about Tahreef Quran are mutawatir and no less than the narrations about Imamah, so if a Shia wants to reject Tahrif then he has to reject Imamah as well".

The Question is why did many of your classical and other top scholars believed in the corruption of Quran? Some reasons:
- They were influenced by the teachings of Ibn Saba, who was an enemy of Islam.
- They couldn't find Shia beliefs in the Quran so they invented this dangerous belief.
- The other reason was to attack the Sahaba, they accused the Sahaba of every bad thing so they also accused them of corrupting the Quran.


Again you are really changing history when you claim that a lot of the major scholars believed in tahrif.
Also the difference between shia hadith and sunni hadith is that we don't claim that our books are completely pure, the only perfect book is the Qur'an. Some scholars compiled hadith books and relied on later scholars to verify these hadith, they compiled all types of hadith.

You criticizing these type of hadith is like me going into weak sunni sources and claiming that they are sahih.

 The few that are seen to be strong hadith, are interpreted that revelation came to the prophet and some of this was tafseer of the quran and it wasnt the verses of quran that was changed.

Again you are changing history with your words, i recommend you read this link about shia/sunni views of tahreef and protection of the Qur'an.

http://www.al-islam.org/quran-its-protection-alteration-sayyid-saeed-akhtar-rizvi/shia-attitude

sorry ive been really busy I will to respond to others later this week inshallah.

Muhammad Tazin

Re: Changing of Qur'an in sunni hadith (Stop claiming shias believe in Tahreef)
« Reply #12 on: February 24, 2015, 08:35:20 AM »
These are top-notch Shia-Priests!!!


labelingtheory

Re: Changing of Qur'an in sunni hadith (Stop claiming shias believe in Tahreef)
« Reply #13 on: February 24, 2015, 02:14:20 PM »
These are top-notch Shia-Priests!!!



This channel cuts and pastes clips and take them out of context all the time, so I can't trust the video just on that basis.

Also let's just assume that is exactly what this speaker was claiming, just because one shia (who I have never even heard of) says something, doesn't mean it represents all shia.

Want me to start posting videos of sunnis?

[EDIT- video posted is not linked to the topic of thread, stick to topic]

Random people on the internet are not representatives of shias, I can post 100 videos of a crazy sunni scholar for every video that you decide to cut and paste.


« Last Edit: February 24, 2015, 02:22:34 PM by Hani »

Hadrami

Re: Changing of Qur'an in sunni hadith (Stop claiming shias believe in Tahreef)
« Reply #14 on: February 24, 2015, 02:26:43 PM »
This channel cuts and pastes clips and take them out of context all the time, so I can't trust the video just on that basis.
Also let's just assume that is exactly what this speaker was claiming, just because one shia (who I have never even heard of) says something, doesn't mean it represents all shia.

See, i told you this labelingtheory is just another ameen (ignorant/clueless or taqiyah freak). Even after his own ayatulah said one of the BIGGEST shia scholar in history believed in tahrif, hes still try to deny it & say its video editing work. It's information age, its not 256H when someone can say someone was born when he doesnt exist mate :D

labelingtheory

Re: Changing of Qur'an in sunni hadith (Stop claiming shias believe in Tahreef)
« Reply #15 on: February 24, 2015, 02:38:41 PM »
Labeling Theory when did I say all shias believe in Tahrif? I said your top scholars like Majlisi believed it and showed you proof (even a shia saying he did wrong ijtihad).

Our top scholars do not believe in Tahrif, ill show you more proof. Stop reading from Sunni blogs, that make up lies. I told you a hundred times, go to real shia sources, not youtube links, not blogs, not satelitte scholars.

The definition of a real ulama is someone who dedicates his whole life to learning Islam not just a few years.

Here is your proof on tahreef.
--------------------------------------
Where are you getting this list from? I'll answer this list for you.
 
Sheikh Kulayni:
There isn't a statement from al-Kulayni that says that he believes in tahreef.
Sheikh Ayyashi:
No statement from Ayyashi as well.
Sheikh Mufid:
Didn't beleive in Tahrif and Not to mention his two major students al-Murtada and al-Tusi both never believed in tahreef

Hurr al-`Amili:

This statement shows that Hurr al-`Amili was anti-Tahreef:
 
إنّ من تتبّع الأخبار وتفحّص التواريخ والآثار علم ـ علماً قطعيّاً ـ بأنّ القرآن قد بلغ أعلى درجات التواتر ، وأنّ آلاف الصحابة كانوا يحفطونه ويتلونه ، وأنّه كان على عهد رسول الله عليه وآله وسلّم مجموعاً مؤلّفاً
"If someone follows narrations, and examines history, the result is knowledge - definitive knowledge - that the Qur'an had reached the highest degree of tawaatur, And there were 1000s of companions that protected it and recited it, and that during the time of the Messenger of Allah it was collected and compiled"


These are the biggest Ulama in early shia history.

As for Majlisi...

1- First of All Al-Alma Al-Majlisi, is not claiming that he him self "Believes" In Tahreef of the Quran, he is stating that there are many narrations that have come over time that "lead" to change or missing parts..The word ( يدل) in this context does not mean "Prove" directly that it has been "proven".
 
2- Second of Al-Almama Al-Majilisi Rejects this narrations in "Context" and how they were transmitted. even if the chain is correct at times, take the following example from the narrations of the 17,000 extra verses:
 
" عَلِيُّ بْنُ الْحَكَمِ عَنْ هِشَامِ بْنِ سَالِمٍ عَنْ أَبِي عَبْدِ اللَّهِ ع قَالَ إِنَّ الْقُرْآنَ الَّذِي جَاءَ بِهِ جَبْرَئِيلُ ع إِلَى مُحَمَّدٍ ص سَبْعَةَ عَشَرَ أَلْفَ آيَةٍ"
 
Then her writes:
 
 
we read in Mir'a'at Al-Oqool, fe Sharh akhbar Al-Rasul (مرآة العقول في شرح أخبار آل الرسول), By Al-Alama Al-Majilisi (مجلسي), volume 12, page 525, after he said:
 
فالخبر صحيح و لا يخفى أن هذا الخبر و كثير من الأخبار الصحيحة صريحة في نقص القرآن و تغييره، و عندي أن الأخبار في هذا الباب متواترة معنى، و طرح جميعها يوجب رفع الاعتماد عن الأخبار رأسا
 
"The khabar (hadeeth) is SaHeeH and it is obvious that this khabar (hadeeth) and other SaHeeH ones like it are clear about the Qur'aan being shortened and changed, and in my opinion, this is mutaawatir in meaning, and discarding these narrations would lead us to rejecting all akhbaar (narrations) in general."....
 
He did not stop there, let us keep reading..
 
 بل ظني أن الأخبار في هذا الباب لا يقصر عن أخبار الإمامة فكيف يثبتونها بالخبر.
 
"But my doubt that Al-akhba'ar in this section, does not shorten from Al-Akhba'ar Al-Imamamiyah, so how can they approve of this by Akh'ba'ar?
 

We continue reading on page 525:


فإن قيل: إنه يوجب رفع الاعتماد على القرآن لأنه إذا ثبت تحريفه ففي كل آية يحتمل ذلك و تجويزهم عليهم السلام على قراءة هذا القرآن و العمل به متواتر معلوم إذ لم ينقل من أحد من الأصحاب أن أحدا من أئمتنا أعطاه قرانا أو علمه قراءة، و هذا ظاهر لمن تتبع الأخبار، و لعمري كيف يجترئون على التكلفات الركيكة في تلك الأخبار مثل ما قيل في هذا الخبر إن الآيات الزائدة عبارة عن الأخبار القدسية أو كانت التجزية بالآيات أكثر و في خبر لم يكن أن الأسماء كانت مكتوبة على الهامش على سبيل التفسير و الله تعالى يعلم و قال السيد حيدر الآملي في تفسيره أكثر القراء ذهبوا إلى أن سور القرآن بأسرها مائة و أربعة عشر سورة و إلى أن آياته ستة آلاف و ستمائة و ست و ستون آية و إلى أن كلماته سبعة و سبعون ألفا و أربعمائة و سبع و ثلاثون كلمة، و إلى أن حروفه ثلاثمائة آلاف و اثنان و عشرون ألفا و ستمائة و سبعون حرفا و إلى أن فتحاته ثلاثة و تسعون ألفا و مائتان و ثلاثة و أربعون فتحة، و إلى أن ضماته أربعون ألفا و ثمان مائة و أربع ضمات و إلى أن كسراته تسع و ثلاثون ألفا و خمسمائة و ستة و ثمانون كسرة، و إلى أن تشديداته تسعة عشر ألفا و مائتان و ثلاثة و خمسون تشديدة، و إلى أن مداته ألف و سبعمائة و أحد و سبعون مده و إلى أن همزاته ثلاث آلاف و مائتان و ثلاث و سبعون همزة
 
 
For if it is the Qeel (قيل / It was said): Its a "must" to lift the trust on the Quran, because if it is proved its distortion, then in every verse it is possible, and permitting (The Imams) peace be upon them on reading the Quran and acting on it is "Mutwa'atir and known, if non copied from the companions (of the Imams) that one of our Imams gave him a Quran or taught him recitations, and this is clear from thos who follow Al-Akhba'ar. And for Amm'r'ee ( لعمري ), how do they have the face (Audacity) on these "weak sayings" in this Akhb'a'ar, just like what is said in this Kha'bar that the verse are extra, example of the holy Akhba'ar or if it was "Al-Tajzee'iyah". Rather the verses, in more than one Kha'bar, it was not the names written on the foot-notes on the sake of Tafs'ir and Allah knows best, and said Al-sayed haidar Al-Amuli ( السيد حيدر الآملي) in his Tafs'eer, the majority of the Reciters made clear that the Sur'ahs of the Quran, with all of them are One hundred and fourteen...."

1- and here its clear the Kha'abar (meaning A report that is "It has been said")  is Weak, even with the chain.
2- He condemns on of the Narrators for reporting it.
3- The Chain is fine, but the reporting is "Weak" because it is a "Qeel": meaning "It has been said"
 
And even if we assumed that the narration is Authentic, the Shikeh Al-Sadooq Replies:
 
 
I quote from Sheikkh Al-Sadooq in Al-Itqad'at (الاعتقادات ), page 93.
 
 وقال الشيخ الصدوق رضوان الله تعالى عليه في الاعتقادات : " بل نقول أنه قد نزل الوحي الذي ليس بقرآن ، ما لو جمع إلى القرآن لكان مبلغه مقدار سبع عشرة ألف آية ، وذلك قول جبرئيل عليه السلام للنبي صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم : إنّ الله تعالى يقول لك : يا محمد دارِ خلقي ، و مثل قوله : عش ما شئت فإنّك ميت ، وأحبب ما شئت فإنّك مفارقه ، و اعمل ما شئت فإنّك ملاقيه ، وشرف المؤمن صلاته بالليل و عزّه كفّ الأذى عن الناس " ، وقال : " إن القرآن الذي جاء به جبرائيل عليه السلام إلى محمد صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم سبعة عشر ألف آية"
 
"And said Sheikh Al-sadooq May Allah be pleased with him in his beliefs: "We Rather say that it was Al-Wahi (Revelation) that is not the Quran,and if (assumed) that it was collected in the quran it would have exceeded seventeen thousand verses, and that is the saying of Jibr'il to the Prophet peace and blessings be upon him and his family: That Allah almighty says to you: "O Muhammad take care of my creatures." saying: "live what you will, for you are at death, and love what you will  for you are leaving, and work what you will, for you will meet with it, and invite the believer, prayer at night, and lift the hand of "Ath'a" from the people, and said: "The Quran that came with Jibr'il (a.s) to Muhammad (s.a.w.a.s) seventeen thousand verses..."


So the major shia ulama did not believe in tahreef and neither do any present day ones.

Let me ask you something mister bolani, there is a hadith of the second caliph believing in tahreef from a sunni source, do you accept every hadith or just ones that are against shias?

You are 16 years old, and you don't even know how to classify hadith yourself, how could you can you disagree with shia beliefs if you believe the garbage propaganda that is spread through the blogs and youtube links you learn from. LEARN FROM REAL SOURCES, not from strangers on the internet.

« Last Edit: February 24, 2015, 02:43:52 PM by labelingtheory »

labelingtheory

Re: Changing of Qur'an in sunni hadith (Stop claiming shias believe in Tahreef)
« Reply #16 on: February 24, 2015, 02:40:20 PM »
This channel cuts and pastes clips and take them out of context all the time, so I can't trust the video just on that basis.
Also let's just assume that is exactly what this speaker was claiming, just because one shia (who I have never even heard of) says something, doesn't mean it represents all shia.

See, i told you this labelingtheory is just another ameen (ignorant/clueless or taqiyah freak). Even after his own ayatulah said one of the BIGGEST shia scholar in history believed in tahrif, hes still try to deny it & say its video editing work. It's information age, its not 256H when someone can say someone was born when he doesnt exist mate :D

Anyone can sit on a mimbar and speak. You have sunni sheikhs who speak on the pulpit that support ISIS. What does one speaker have to do anything about shiasm?

If you have an issue with shiasm find something from a respected scholar like Sistani. Thank you.

Hadrami

Re: Changing of Qur'an in sunni hadith (Stop claiming shias believe in Tahreef)
« Reply #17 on: February 24, 2015, 03:08:22 PM »
This channel cuts and pastes clips and take them out of context all the time, so I can't trust the video just on that basis.
Also let's just assume that is exactly what this speaker was claiming, just because one shia (who I have never even heard of) says something, doesn't mean it represents all shia.

See, i told you this labelingtheory is just another ameen (ignorant/clueless or taqiyah freak). Even after his own ayatulah said one of the BIGGEST shia scholar in history believed in tahrif, hes still try to deny it & say its video editing work. It's information age, its not 256H when someone can say someone was born when he doesnt exist mate :D

Anyone can sit on a mimbar and speak. You have sunni sheikhs who speak on the pulpit that support ISIS. What does one speaker have to do anything about shiasm?

If you have an issue with shiasm find something from a respected scholar like Sistani. Thank you.

Shia scholars who believe in tahrif is not just "anyone". Ayatulah al haydari clearly said in that clip that al-Majlisi believed that the proofs for tahrif are too many to be ignored, just like imamah, but here you are trying too hard to hide that sad reality. You want to compare Sistani to Majlisi? That's funny. Try harder :D

MuslimK

  • *****
  • Total likes: 255
  • +11/-0
  • یا مقلب القلوب ثبت قلبی علی دینک
    • Refuting Shia allegations everywhere
  • Religion: Sunni
Re: Changing of Qur'an in sunni hadith (Stop claiming shias believe in Tahreef)
« Reply #18 on: February 24, 2015, 03:16:04 PM »
Again you are really changing history when you claim that a lot of the major scholars believed in tahrif.
 

I am just mentioning Shia history about their scholars, not changing anything.


Quote
Also the difference between shia hadith and sunni hadith is that we don't claim that our books are completely pure, the only perfect book is the Qur'an. Some scholars compiled hadith books and relied on later scholars to verify these hadith, they compiled all types of hadith.

So your books are half pure? ;)

Many of your scholars verified the Hadiths, found them authentic and believed in the corruption of Quran. I will quote you some.

Quote
You criticizing these type of hadith is like me going into weak sunni sources and claiming that they are sahih.
I am not criticizing anything. I talking about the belief of your top scholars and narrations that are considered Sahih by your scholars i..e Majlisi etc.

 

Quote
The few that are seen to be strong hadith, are interpreted that revelation came to the prophet and some of this was tafseer of the quran and it wasnt the verses of quran that was changed.

Again you are changing history with your words, i recommend you read this link about shia/sunni views of tahreef and protection of the Qur'an.

http://www.al-islam.org/quran-its-protection-alteration-sayyid-saeed-akhtar-rizvi/shia-attitude

sorry ive been really busy I will to respond to others later this week inshallah.

I will read it.
در خلافت میل نیست ای بی‌خبر
میل کی آید ز بوبکر و عمر
میل اگر بودی در آن دو مقتدا
هر دو کردندی پسر را پیشوا

عطار نِیشابوری

www.Nahjul-Balagha.net | www.TwelverShia.net | www.ghadirkhumm.com

MuslimK

  • *****
  • Total likes: 255
  • +11/-0
  • یا مقلب القلوب ثبت قلبی علی دینک
    • Refuting Shia allegations everywhere
  • Religion: Sunni
Re: Changing of Qur'an in sunni hadith (Stop claiming shias believe in Tahreef)
« Reply #19 on: February 24, 2015, 03:45:00 PM »

Our top scholars do not believe in Tahrif, ill show you more proof. Stop reading from Sunni blogs, that make up lies. I told you a hundred times, go to real shia sources, not youtube links, not blogs, not satelitte scholars.

The definition of a real ulama is someone who dedicates his whole life to learning Islam not just a few years.

You will learn brother. 



Quote
Here is your proof on tahreef.
--------------------------------------
Where are you getting this list from? I'll answer this list for you.
 
Sheikh Kulayni:
There isn't a statement from al-Kulayni that says that he believes in tahreef.
Sheikh Ayyashi:
No statement from Ayyashi as well.
Sheikh Mufid:
Didn't beleive in Tahrif and Not to mention his two major students al-Murtada and al-Tusi both never believed in tahreef

Hurr al-`Amili:


- You forgot Ali bin Ibrahim Qumi? The author of your classical Tafsir. He believed in the corruption of Quran.

- Mufid did believe in the corruption of Quran. See his book al-Masa’il al-Sarawiyah page 78 – the ninth issue.

Yes, Tusi and Murtada didn't believe in the corruption. First correct thing you mentioned ;)

- Ayyashi did quote many narrations of Tahrif in his Tafsir of Quran. There is a testimony of a Shia scholar that Ayyashi did believe in corruption of Quran.

- As for Majlisi then his statements about the corruption of Quran too many to mention here. Keep in mind that students of Majlisi also believed in the corruption of Quran like Jazairi.

For more names check this link.



در خلافت میل نیست ای بی‌خبر
میل کی آید ز بوبکر و عمر
میل اگر بودی در آن دو مقتدا
هر دو کردندی پسر را پیشوا

عطار نِیشابوری

www.Nahjul-Balagha.net | www.TwelverShia.net | www.ghadirkhumm.com

 

Related Topics

  Subject / Started by Replies Last post
1 Replies
1093 Views
Last post January 21, 2015, 02:35:33 AM
by Furkan
0 Replies
241 Views
Last post May 16, 2019, 02:00:31 AM
by ahlulhadeethwassunnah
70 Replies
1467 Views
Last post June 20, 2020, 05:37:54 PM
by Soccer
2 Replies
207 Views
Last post December 20, 2019, 11:45:42 AM
by iceman