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Those in Light vs Those in Darkness

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Ijtaba

Those in Light vs Those in Darkness
« on: August 23, 2017, 04:44:34 PM »
Salaam.

I want to know Ahlul Sunnah's understanding of below verse

Allah is the Guardian of those who believe. He Extracts them from the darkness into the Light; and (as for) those who are committing Kufr, their guardian is taghut who extracts them from the Light into the darkness; these are the inmates of the Fire; they would be in it eternally [2:257]

ALLAH (SWT) is the Guardian of those who believe i.e. those who were in darkness and GOD brings them into Light whereas taghut is guardian of those who disbelieve i.e. those who were in Light and taghut brings them into darkness

- I didn't really understand this verse. If Islam is light and Kufr is darkness then how can believers be in Darkness? And how can disbelievers be in Light?

- Those who were in Light were on the straight path... then why were they not protected by GOD from taghut taking them into darkness? Is GOD not the Guardian of those who are in Light? Whereas those who were in darkness are on wrong path i.e are deviant... then why were they helped by GOD who took them out of darkness and put them in Light? Is GOD not against those who are in darkness?


Touheedibhay

Re: Those in Light vs Those in Darkness
« Reply #1 on: August 23, 2017, 08:40:03 PM »

- I didn't really understand this verse. If Islam is light and Kufr is darkness then how can believers be in Darkness? And how can disbelievers be in Light?
Belivers be in darkness means the people who follow prophet Essa a.s before prophet muhammad sallalla ho ala ha wa sallam. They were the belivers but became disbeliver after rejecting the teaching of the prophet muhammad sallala ho ala ha wa alihi wa sallam. The arabs were the disbelivers but became belivers after accepting the teaching of the prophet muhammad sallala ho ala ha wa alihi wa sallam.

Ijtaba

Re: Those in Light vs Those in Darkness
« Reply #2 on: August 24, 2017, 11:03:44 AM »
Belivers be in darkness means the people who follow prophet Essa a.s before prophet muhammad sallalla ho ala ha wa sallam. They were the belivers but became disbeliver after rejecting the teaching of the prophet muhammad sallala ho ala ha wa alihi wa sallam. The arabs were the disbelivers but became belivers after accepting the teaching of the prophet muhammad sallala ho ala ha wa alihi wa sallam.

I disagree with your viewpoint because following verses of Al-Quran say otherwise.

01. Followers of Jesus:

Surah Aal e Imran Verse 55
[Mention] when ALLAH said, "O Jesus, indeed I will take you and raise you to Myself and purify you from those who disbelieve and make those who follow you [in submission to ALLAH alone] superior to those who disbelieve until the Day of Resurrection. Then to Me is your return, and I will judge between you concerning that in which you used to differ. (SAHIH INTERNATIONAL)

Followers of Jesus are superior to those who disbelieve until the Day of Resurrection.

02. Disbelievers and Mushriks of Arab:

Surah as-Saf Verses 8-9
They want to extinguish the light of ALLAH with their mouths, but ALLAH will perfect His light, although the disbelievers dislike it.
It is He who sent His Messenger with guidance and the religion of truth to manifest it over all religion, although those who associate others with ALLAH dislike it. (SAHIH INTERNATIONAL)

Disbelievers & Mushriks of Arab dislike Light of ALLAH & Islam.

Touheedibhay

Re: Those in Light vs Those in Darkness
« Reply #3 on: August 24, 2017, 12:09:32 PM »


I disagree with your viewpoint because following verses of Al-Quran say otherwise.

01. Followers of Jesus:

Surah Aal e Imran Verse 55
[Mention] when ALLAH said, "O Jesus, indeed I will take you and raise you to Myself and purify you from those who disbelieve and make those who follow you [in submission to ALLAH alone] superior to those who disbelieve until the Day of Resurrection. Then to Me is your return, and I will judge between you concerning that in which you used to differ. (SAHIH INTERNATIONAL)

Followers of Jesus are superior to those who disbelieve until the Day of Resurrection.
You have the right to disagree but first try understand.i think you are unable to understand my comment. You are saying followers of jesus are superior. Yes i am agree with you but i have a question who are the true followers of jesus.those Who accept prophet muhammad sallala ho ala ha wa alihi wa sallam teachings or those who say himself followers of jesus but dislike prophet muhammad sallala ho ala ha wa sallam? Mention true followers of jesus first... then i will highlight your other week points. Note my point i said christian were the belivers but became disbelivers.and i mention the reason.

Ijtaba

Re: Those in Light vs Those in Darkness
« Reply #4 on: August 24, 2017, 05:39:15 PM »
...but i have a question who are the true followers of jesus.those Who accept prophet muhammad sallala ho ala ha wa alihi wa sallam teachings or those who say himself followers of jesus but dislike prophet muhammad sallala ho ala ha wa sallam? Mention true followers of jesus first... then i will highlight your other week points.

A true follower of Jesus would be the one who accepts the teachings of Prophet Mohammed (saww).

Note my point i said christian were the belivers but became disbelivers.and i mention the reason.

Which christian are you referring here? We all agree that Trinitarian Christians are not at all believers. See below verse of Al-Quran:

Surah al-Maidah Verse 73
They have certainly disbelieved who say, " Allah is the third of three." And there is no god except one God. And if they do not desist from what they are saying, there will surely afflict the disbelievers among them a painful punishment. (SAHIH INTERNATIONAL)

My question still remains:

- False followers of Jesus were already in darkness... so to whom is this verse referring to as disbelievers who were in Light?

- True followers of Jesus were already in Light... so to whom is this verse referring to as believers who were in darkness?

zaid_ibn_ali

Re: Those in Light vs Those in Darkness
« Reply #5 on: August 24, 2017, 05:48:57 PM »
Salaam.

I want to know Ahlul Sunnah's understanding of below verse

Allah is the Guardian of those who believe. He Extracts them from the darkness into the Light; and (as for) those who are committing Kufr, their guardian is taghut who extracts them from the Light into the darkness; these are the inmates of the Fire; they would be in it eternally [2:257]

ALLAH (SWT) is the Guardian of those who believe i.e. those who were in darkness and GOD brings them into Light whereas taghut is guardian of those who disbelieve i.e. those who were in Light and taghut brings them into darkness

- I didn't really understand this verse. If Islam is light and Kufr is darkness then how can believers be in Darkness? And how can disbelievers be in Light?

- Those who were in Light were on the straight path... then why were they not protected by GOD from taghut taking them into darkness? Is GOD not the Guardian of those who are in Light? Whereas those who were in darkness are on wrong path i.e are deviant... then why were they helped by GOD who took them out of darkness and put them in Light? Is GOD not against those who are in darkness?

A believer can still sin, experience troubles, waver in the strenghth of their faith.

We must still always make dua to Allah SWT to guide us on the right path & keep us on it

Hani

Re: Those in Light vs Those in Darkness
« Reply #6 on: August 24, 2017, 06:41:12 PM »
Without going back to Tafseer, I understand it as such:

Allah is the Guardian of those who believe. He Extracts them from the darkness into the Light; and (as for) those who are committing Kufr, their guardian is taghut who extracts them from the Light into the darkness; these are the inmates of the Fire; they would be in it eternally [2:257]



{Allah is the Guardian of those who believe. He Extracts them from the darkness into the Light}

Meaning, if you were drowned in sins and corruption, yet one day you ponder and reflect sincerely, God will support you then extract you out of that darkness into His light.

{and (as for) those who are committing Kufr, their guardian is taghut who extracts them from the Light into the darkness}

Meaning, some of those currently drowned in blasphemy and disobedience, if they believed in this message at a certain point in their lives yet joined with it acts of evil and sinfulness. The devils dragged them from the light into the darkness until they no longer were believers.

Point is, conditions change so ask God to keep you steadfast and firm upon belief. Ask God to not turn you into a victim of the devils. Do not get arrogant and promise yourself heaven.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2017, 06:42:15 PM by Hani »
عَلامَةُ أَهْلِ الْبِدَعِ الْوَقِيعَةُ فِي أَهْلِ الأَثَرِ. وَعَلامَةُ الْجَهْمِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُشَبِّهَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الْقَدَرِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُجَبِّرَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الزَّنَادِقَةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ الأَثَرِ حَشْوِيَّةً

Religion = simple & clear

Link

Re: Those in Light vs Those in Darkness
« Reply #7 on: August 24, 2017, 08:38:50 PM »
The vision that is set towards God, is known as the name of God. Mohammad glorified by it, and he himself was that name. We aren't that name but must recognize the name and glorify by the name that is with us and within us.

Morality is not a concept, neither is it separate from God, neither is it a code that is not alive or not extended to us, neither is it none conscious.

Goodness is being attached to God through the means that connect us to him, mainly his name. His name and face, is the station of leadership that Abraham attained when told: "I am making you a leader for humans".

God's vision creates everything but we cannot witness his vision because his vision is himself which is above all understanding and vision of creation.

The closest vision by which he extends his proof to all humans and Jinn, during the time of the Prophet Mohammad, was Mohammad.  Mohammad in Quran is said to be "a reminder" brought down and "the clear proof" in Suratal Bayana.

We aren't commanded but to sincerely worship God, and this cannot be done except through recognizing his name and coming through his door.

The one who succeeds the position of the Prophet, is ultimately who takes on the position of "The clear proof".


Mohammad is the sky referred to when it said "and we descended water from the sky" upon the companions in battle, and it's from him tranquility of faith increased them in vision, and by God that water is nothing but love of the Guide of the time and those who knew Mohammad as Leader and Guide, loved Ali and so it was love of Ali.

Love of Ali distinguished believers from hypocrites, because, love of Ali means the continuation of the name and light and face of God, and seeking to establish God's rope as the RULER and Master on earth, by which no one but God is taken as authority.

Keep trying to separate the reminder, the written (Quran) and living (Prophet) from the family of the reminder,  you will fail and enter hell for your rebellion against God and his Ayat.


« Last Edit: August 24, 2017, 08:49:05 PM by Link »
Love of the family of Yaseen is the light of the heavens and the earth.

Ijtaba

Re: Those in Light vs Those in Darkness
« Reply #8 on: August 25, 2017, 05:28:00 PM »
{Allah is the Guardian of those who believe. He Extracts them from the darkness into the Light}

Meaning, if you were drowned in sins and corruption, yet one day you ponder and reflect sincerely, God will support you then extract you out of that darkness into His light.

- Why would a believer be in sins and corruption in the first place?

- If after pondering and reflecting sincerely the believer is supported by GOD and taken out of the darkness and into the Light... would the believer stop committing sins? By this I mean when the believer gets into the Light would he become infallible i.e free from committing sins?

{and (as for) those who are committing Kufr, their guardian is taghut who extracts them from the Light into the darkness}

Meaning, some of those currently drowned in blasphemy and disobedience, if they believed in this message at a certain point in their lives yet joined with it acts of evil and sinfulness. The devils dragged them from the light into the darkness until they no longer were believers.

- But the verse says that initially disbelievers were in Light. Isn't GOD the protector of those who are in Light and aren't the people in Light guided and blessed? Why would GOD allow those people in Light to get in darkness when GOD is the One who takes people out of darkness and brings them into the Light.

- Can a person who believed in this message and yet did acts of evil and sinfulness be considered from the people of Light. I don't believe in such a thing. I believe such a person to be in darkness and not in Light. He is a person who is fooling none other than himself with such hypocrisy by doing acts of evilness and sinfulness while pretending to believe in the message.

Hani

Re: Those in Light vs Those in Darkness
« Reply #9 on: August 25, 2017, 11:20:15 PM »
- Why would a believer be in sins and corruption in the first place?

Because when they are extracted from sins, they become pious believers. God has guarded them by taking them out of sin and turning them into believers.

Additionally, we can even say that some believers are surrounded by darkness of sinners and corrupt ones. God guards them by keeping them firm on his belief this extracting them from the darkness that surrounds them.

We can add another, that these believers were themselves sinners and possibly even weak in their belief, yet they believed so God increased their faith and surrounded them with light of guidance.

- If after pondering and reflecting sincerely the believer is supported by GOD and taken out of the darkness and into the Light... would the believer stop committing sins? By this I mean when the believer gets into the Light would he become infallible i.e free from committing sins?

Guys, please enough of this infallibility business :) No there's no such thing except maybe Yahya (as) that too only with women. Me and you are shrouded by this light, Alhamdulillah we're believers Insha-Allah, yet not immune to errors.

- But the verse says that initially disbelievers were in Light. Isn't GOD the protector of those who are in Light and aren't the people in Light guided and blessed? Why would GOD allow those people in Light to get in darkness when GOD is the One who takes people out of darkness and brings them into the Light.

I gave you the way I understood it again without referring to Tafseer books. Firstly the light/darkness bit is metaphorical, so the meaning intended is not so black and white, it's not a mechanical process. The reason I explained it as such is because it starts with "Those who commit blasphemy", then it says that evil forces took them from light to darkness, this could mean:

A- They were previously in light but due to their sinfulness they strayed away into darkness.
B- They were always in darkness and the evil forces make sure to keep them in it, blocking away any path to light.

Both work linguistically.

- Can a person who believed in this message and yet did acts of evil and sinfulness be considered from the people of Light. I don't believe in such a thing. I believe such a person to be in darkness and not in Light. He is a person who is fooling none other than himself with such hypocrisy by doing acts of evilness and sinfulness while pretending to believe in the message.

I see your point, but know that people's condition change, they can gradually shift from light to an abyss of darkness with time. A saint can become a wicked one and vice versa. With that said, a person entrenched in light, can start to stray away, little by little, until he slips and falls.

We believe in this, the dynamic ever changing world is unstable, we ask God for stability upon a path pleasing to Him.
عَلامَةُ أَهْلِ الْبِدَعِ الْوَقِيعَةُ فِي أَهْلِ الأَثَرِ. وَعَلامَةُ الْجَهْمِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُشَبِّهَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الْقَدَرِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُجَبِّرَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الزَّنَادِقَةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ الأَثَرِ حَشْوِيَّةً

Religion = simple & clear

Touheedibhay

Re: Those in Light vs Those in Darkness
« Reply #10 on: August 26, 2017, 10:21:49 PM »
...but i have a question who are the true followers of jesus.those Who accept prophet muhammad sallala ho ala ha wa alihi wa sallam teachings or those who say himself followers of jesus but dislike prophet muhammad sallala ho ala ha wa sallam? Mention true followers of jesus first... then i will highlight your other week points.

A true follower of Jesus would be the one who accepts the teachings of Prophet Mohammed (saww).

Note my point i said christian were the belivers but became disbelivers.and i mention the reason.

Which christian are you referring here? We all agree that Trinitarian Christians are not at all believers.
when I asked believers means the Christians who followed the true teachings of the prophet jesus before prophet muhammad sallala ho ala ha wa sallam. before prophet muhammad sallala ho ala ha wa sallam some christians and jews were waiting for last messenger. I talked about those who followed the true teaching of their prophets. but remember this is the one tafsir.

Ijtaba

Re: Those in Light vs Those in Darkness
« Reply #11 on: August 28, 2017, 05:11:15 PM »
- Why would a believer be in sins and corruption in the first place?

Because when they are extracted from sins, they become pious believers. God has guarded them by taking them out of sin and turning them into believers.

When they were in sins weren't they believers?

GOD has taken them out of sin and turned them into believers then are believers now sinless? If not then would their sinning throw them again in darkness?

Additionally, we can even say that some believers are surrounded by darkness of sinners and corrupt ones. God guards them by keeping them firm on his belief this extracting them from the darkness that surrounds them.

If we assume this darkness is due to darkness of sinners and corrupt ones surrounding believers then after GOD extracting the believers from darkness that surround them and brings them into Light... are believers (now in Light) no longer surrounded by sinners and corrupt ones?

We can add another, that these believers were themselves sinners and possibly even weak in their belief, yet they believed so God increased their faith and surrounded them with light of guidance.

Believers were:

- sinners
- possibly weak in their belief
- yet believed (believed what?)

GOD increased their faith and surrounded them with light of guidance. But the thing is...

Disbelievers are:

- sinners
- have no faith
- believed in nothing

yet they were surrounded with light of guidance before taghut forces brought them into darkness.

Why is sinner believer having weak belief initially in Darkness whereas sinner disbeliever having no belief initially is in Light?

- But the verse says that initially disbelievers were in Light. Isn't GOD the protector of those who are in Light and aren't the people in Light guided and blessed? Why would GOD allow those people in Light to get in darkness when GOD is the One who takes people out of darkness and brings them into the Light.

I gave you the way I understood it again without referring to Tafseer books. Firstly the light/darkness bit is metaphorical, so the meaning intended is not so black and white, it's not a mechanical process. The reason I explained it as such is because it starts with "Those who commit blasphemy", then it says that evil forces took them from light to darkness, this could mean:

A- They were previously in light but due to their sinfulness they strayed away into darkness.

So can this apply to believers as well because after coming to Light from darkness they won't stop sinning as coming into light is no guarantee for Infallibility. So disbelievers are taken out from Light and thrown into darkness due to sinning then I guess believers would also be taken out of Light and thrown into darkness due to sinning?

B- They were always in darkness and the evil forces make sure to keep them in it, blocking away any path to light.
Both work linguistically.

The verse says that they were in Light before being thrown into darkness.

If they were always in darkness then the verse should had read, "and (as for) those who are committing Kufr, their guardian is taghut who always blocks their path to light and keeps them in darkness to remain their forever; these are the inmates of the Fire; they would be in it eternally"

Ijtaba

Re: Those in Light vs Those in Darkness
« Reply #12 on: August 28, 2017, 05:13:26 PM »
when I asked believers means the Christians who followed the true teachings of the prophet jesus before prophet muhammad sallala ho ala ha wa sallam. before prophet muhammad sallala ho ala ha wa sallam some christians and jews were waiting for last messenger. I talked about those who followed the true teaching of their prophets. but remember this is the one tafsir.

To be honest I do not understand what you are trying to say. To make it simplier I would again repeat:

True Followers of Jesus are in Light about whom Al-Quran says, "and make those who follow you (i.e. Jesus) superior to those who disbelieve until the Day of Resurrection."

False Followers of Jesus are in Darkness. They were never in Light.

True Followers of Jesus would always be in Light and be superior to disbelievers till the Day of Resurrection.

 

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