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Sunni Shia Discussion Forum => Quran-Tafseer => Topic started by: Optimus Prime on April 05, 2015, 12:04:11 AM

Title: Verse 33:33 revealed in the house of Umm Salama (RA)
Post by: Optimus Prime on April 05, 2015, 12:04:11 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9FU30nfjB5o (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9FU30nfjB5o)

Salaams to all.

I was listening to this interesting talk from this scholar who is a Shaf'i scholar with a little of Sufi/Barelwi tendencies. Now if you watch it from 17:00 to 35 minutes. He talks about and he's of the opinion that the verse 33:33 was indeed revealed in the house of Umm Salama (RA), and pertained to Fatima (RA), Ali (RA), Hassan (RA) and Hussain (RA) ONLY. He believes Ahlul Bhayt linguistically can be extended to encompass the wives and the progeny of Abbas (RA), but states emphatically that the verse was in relation to these 5 exclusively. Thus, when the Prophet (SAW) said Ahlul Bhait as the second weighty thing he (SAW) is leaving for everyone this ayah was revealed for a second time to verify whom Ahlul Bhait really are.

He also a mentions a narration where when he walked passed the house of Ali (RA) and Fatima (RA), he'd say "Asalamualaikum my Ahlul Bhait"? Is anyone aware of this narration?

What evidence is used from Ahlus Sunnah to confirm and verify that at the first instant Ahlul Bhait includes the wives (RA)?

Finally, some background information on this scholar he's apparently a descendant from Ahlul Bhait through the progeny of Hussain ibn Ali (RA):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad_bin_Yahya_al-Ninowy
Title: Re: Verse 33:33 revealed in the house of Umm Salama (RA)
Post by: Optimus Prime on April 05, 2015, 12:06:36 AM
Interestingly, too when he mentions Ghadir he doesn't talk about leadership, but in his view it was mentioned to finalise the Iman of ALL the elite Sahaba to incorporate the love of Ali, and Ali (RA) is the Amanah of Ahlul Bhait.
Title: Re: Verse 33:33 revealed in the house of Umm Salama (RA)
Post by: Furkan on April 05, 2015, 12:10:30 AM
Yes, that bothered me too when I watched it. A great lecture in general though.
Title: Re: Verse 33:33 revealed in the house of Umm Salama (RA)
Post by: Optimus Prime on April 05, 2015, 12:11:39 AM
Yes, that bothered me too when I watched it. A great lecture in general though.

Ah, so someone else has seen it.
Title: Re: Verse 33:33 revealed in the house of Umm Salama (RA)
Post by: Furkan on April 05, 2015, 12:17:53 AM
The shaykh basically says about hadith thaqalyn that kitab'alllah refers to Quran and Sunnah since both are wahi and after that comes ahlul bayt.
Title: Re: Verse 33:33 revealed in the house of Umm Salama (RA)
Post by: Furkan on April 05, 2015, 12:25:28 AM
But he limits ahlulbayt to 5 ;/
Title: Re: Verse 33:33 revealed in the house of Umm Salama (RA)
Post by: Hani on April 05, 2015, 12:38:50 AM
Everyone agrees it was revealed in Umm Salama's house, Umm Salamah herself says it was revealed in her house. Among Ahlul-Sunnah you can only have two opinions, the minority opinion is the one you heard above and it is weak, he says the verse was revealed about Ahlul-Kisa' but the wives are included later. The majority opinion is that the verse was revealed for the wives but the rest of the household are also included, this is the strong opinion simply because of the clear explicit Qur'anic text as well as the Hadith of ibn `Abbas.

The Rafidah say NO, the verse was revealed at the event of Kisa' and it only includes five people, no one else. This is a corrupt opinion which was discussed thoroughly.

The narration of `Umar bin Umm Salamah is clear that this verse was revealed in his mother's house, THEN AFTER THIS, the Prophet (saw) called on the four and made Du`a' for them. The narration of Wadhilah bin al-Asqa` has a big scandal in it because the Prophet (saw) includes him among his Ahl. The narration of `A'ishah is weak and she never even witnessed the event. The narration of Umm Salamah is self-conflicting which reduces its reliability, assuming that Shahr heard from Umm Salamah, the report has many confusing versions, in several ones Umm Salamah is included, in others her inclusion is implied but not stated explicitly. The narration of Sa`d needs to be looked into but it seems to not contain any detail. The narration of `Ikrimah and Sa`eed bin Jubayr from ibn `Abbas explicitly says the verse was revealed for the wives and the chain is good. Abu Sa`eed's narration is fabricated.
Title: Re: Verse 33:33 revealed in the house of Umm Salama (RA)
Post by: Hani on April 05, 2015, 12:49:29 AM
I'm listening from minute 17:00, I disagree with most of what he's saying and it seems he hasn't researched it. I can also notice that he's trying to limit Ahlul-Bayt to five, at least as far as this verse is concerned, and he's implying that certain people have Nasb.

This is because he's Sufi, and Sufis have Ghuluw when it comes to banu Hashim especially the Talibiyeen.
Title: Re: Verse 33:33 revealed in the house of Umm Salama (RA)
Post by: Optimus Prime on April 05, 2015, 01:30:34 AM
Everyone agrees it was revealed in Umm Salama's house, Umm Salamah herself says it was revealed in her house. Among Ahlul-Sunnah you can only have two opinions, the minority opinion is the one you heard above and it is weak, he says the verse was revealed about Ahlul-Kisa' but the wives are included later. The majority opinion is that the verse was revealed for the wives but the rest of the household are also included, this is the strong opinion simply because of the clear explicit Qur'anic text as well as the Hadith of ibn `Abbas.

The Rafidah say NO, the verse was revealed at the event of Kisa' and it only includes five people, no one else. This is a corrupt opinion which was discussed thoroughly.

The narration of `Umar bin Umm Salamah is clear that this verse was revealed in his mother's house, THEN AFTER THIS, the Prophet (saw) called on the four and made Du`a' for them. The narration of Wadhilah bin al-Asqa` has a big scandal in it because the Prophet (saw) includes him among his Ahl. The narration of `A'ishah is weak and she never even witnessed the event. The narration of Umm Salamah is self-conflicting which reduces its reliability, assuming that Shahr heard from Umm Salamah, the report has many confusing versions, in several ones Umm Salamah is included, in others her inclusion is implied but not stated explicitly. The narration of Sa`d needs to be looked into but it seems to not contain any detail. The narration of `Ikrimah and Sa`eed bin Jubayr from ibn `Abbas explicitly says the verse was revealed for the wives and the chain is good. Abu Sa`eed's narration is fabricated.

Jazak'Allah for the explanation.

Can you quote the narration of Abdullah ibn Abbas (RA) and Umar bin Umm Salama (RA)?
Title: Re: Verse 33:33 revealed in the house of Umm Salama (RA)
Post by: Optimus Prime on April 05, 2015, 01:31:35 AM
I'm listening from minute 17:00, I disagree with most of what he's saying and it seems he hasn't researched it. I can also notice that he's trying to limit Ahlul-Bayt to five, at least as far as this verse is concerned, and he's implying that certain people have Nasb.

This is because he's Sufi, and Sufis have Ghuluw when it comes to banu Hashim especially the Talibiyeen.

Did you finish it?