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"If two parties among the Believers...

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Muslim ar Rusi

"If two parties among the Believers...
« on: June 11, 2016, 07:30:33 PM »
Assalamu aleikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuhu my brothers in Islam.

In Qur 'an we have this verse:


وَإِنْ طَائِفَتَانِ مِنَ الْمُؤْمِنِينَ اقْتَتَلُوا فَأَصْلِحُوا بَيْنَهُمَا ۖ فَإِنْ بَغَتْ إِحْدَاهُمَا عَلَى الْأُخْرَىٰ فَقَاتِلُوا الَّتِي تَبْغِي حَتَّىٰ تَفِيءَ إِلَىٰ أَمْرِ اللَّهِ ۚ فَإِنْ فَاءَتْ فَأَصْلِحُوا بَيْنَهُمَا بِالْعَدْلِ وَأَقْسِطُوا ۖ إِنَّ اللَّهَ يُحِبُّ الْمُقْسِطِينَ

"If two parties among the Believers fall into a quarrel make ye peace between them: but if one of them transgresses beyond bounds against the other then fight ye (all) against the one that transgresses until it complies with the command of Allah; but if it complies then make peace between them with justice and be fair: for Allah loves those who are fair (and just)" (49:9)


So the situation when two groups of believers are fighting each other is possible according to this. But i cannot imagine such event in shia religion. There are three possible variations:

1) One of groups rejected imam's order and started figthing with his group (thus apostated)
2) None of groups accepted imam and followed his order (both apostated)
3) Both groups followed imam but still this happened (then i doubt if such imam can be infallible)

Could you please tell me if i am wrong?
لا تعتقد دين الروافض إنهم أهل المحال وحزبة الشيطان

not a daish follower

Ibn Yahya

Re: "If two parties among the Believers...
« Reply #1 on: June 11, 2016, 11:29:48 PM »
Well yhe Iraq-Iran war was primarily between Shi'is on both sides so I guess it can.

Rationalist

Re: "If two parties among the Believers...
« Reply #2 on: June 12, 2016, 07:31:52 AM »
The 12ers struggle to explain this since they believe on the term momin only can apply  to themselves.

Muslim ar Rusi

Re: "If two parties among the Believers...
« Reply #3 on: June 12, 2016, 02:37:24 PM »
I mean they always say that there should be an infallible imam that leads the ummah. Disobedience of him is equal to disobedience of prophet. Plus as far as i know the feud with imam is considered as disbelief by shias without any doubts. So how can be both groups of believers be fighting each other and still not be in kufr? One of them accepted imam and followed his order, another didn't do it and started fighting with the first one which made all its members kuffar. That's how i see it.
« Last Edit: June 12, 2016, 02:40:45 PM by Muslim ar Rusi »
لا تعتقد دين الروافض إنهم أهل المحال وحزبة الشيطان

not a daish follower

Rationalist

Re: "If two parties among the Believers...
« Reply #4 on: June 12, 2016, 05:41:08 PM »
I mean they always say that there should be an infallible imam that leads the ummah. Disobedience of him is equal to disobedience of prophet. Plus as far as i know the feud with imam is considered as disbelief by shias without any doubts. So how can be both groups of believers be fighting each other and still not be in kufr? One of them accepted imam and followed his order, another didn't do it and started fighting with the first one which made all its members kuffar. That's how i see it.

Not only that. They even believe that the majority who fought on his side where not momins.

The other day I read a ahadith from their books where their version of Ali declared his own supporters at the time to be destined to hell for praying taraweeh.

Abi Abdillah (as) and Abi Ja’far (as) said: “When Ameer al-Mu’mineen (as) was in Kufa, the people came to him and said: “Appoint for us an Imam (of prayer) to lead us in Ramadhaan. So he replied to them: “No” and he forbade them from congregating in it. So when the evening came (the people) would say: “Cry (for) Ramadhaan, Oh Ramadhaan” So Haarith al-ahwar came from among people (to Ali) and said: “Oh Ameer al-Mu’mineen, the people are causing a fuss and dislike your words. He replied: “Leave them to do want, and let them pray with whom they want” then he said (the following ayah) “And whoever [..] follows other than the way of the believers – We will give him what he has taken and drive him into Hell, and evil it is as a destination.” (4:115)
Sanad: Muhammad b. Idris in the end of as-Sara’ir transmitting from the book of Abu ‘l-Qasim Ja`far b. Muhammad b. Qulawayh who said the above hadith
Source: Wasaa’il al-Shia (Aale Bayt), Volume 8, Page 47, Hadith #5

 

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