TwelverShia.net Forum

Al-Hassan (RA) superior than Al-Hussain (RA)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Optimus Prime

Al-Hassan (RA) superior than Al-Hussain (RA)
« on: March 05, 2015, 04:06:39 PM »
I've heard from scholars that Hassan (RA) is more superior than his 10 month younger brother because he was more wise, mature and possessed leadership qualities.

Hani

Re: Al-Hassan (RA) superior than Al-Hussain (RA)
« Reply #1 on: March 05, 2015, 05:57:30 PM »
According to Shia al-Hasan is superior to al-Husayn also so there is no difference on this.
عَلامَةُ أَهْلِ الْبِدَعِ الْوَقِيعَةُ فِي أَهْلِ الأَثَرِ. وَعَلامَةُ الْجَهْمِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُشَبِّهَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الْقَدَرِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُجَبِّرَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الزَّنَادِقَةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ الأَثَرِ حَشْوِيَّةً

Religion = simple & clear

Muhammad Tazin

Re: Al-Hassan (RA) superior than Al-Hussain (RA)
« Reply #2 on: March 05, 2015, 06:41:22 PM »
al-Hassan(r.a) got so many children, among them were famous like Hassan bin al_hassan(r) ,Abdullah ibn Hassan(r).
But it's a matter of though for the Shia laymen, that no son of Hassan(r.a) became Imam! Why ?  ???

Hani

Re: Al-Hassan (RA) superior than Al-Hussain (RA)
« Reply #3 on: March 05, 2015, 07:57:16 PM »
Shia say that Imamah was given to Husayn's children because "they are closer to him in relation than his brother Hasan's progeny."

Meaning because Zayn al-`Abideen was closed in blood relation to Husayn than his brother Hasan's children.

I say: Why take such a corrupt path?

Shia in their narrations claim that Hasan was greater than Husayn, and that `Ali was greater than Hasan etc...

So why then should Imamah go from the children of the greatest Imam to the less great Imam?

Fatimah (as) had two children who ruled, after both children died, the Imamah should have went to the children of the greatest of two sons! Al-Hasan.

Makes sense?
عَلامَةُ أَهْلِ الْبِدَعِ الْوَقِيعَةُ فِي أَهْلِ الأَثَرِ. وَعَلامَةُ الْجَهْمِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُشَبِّهَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الْقَدَرِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُجَبِّرَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الزَّنَادِقَةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ الأَثَرِ حَشْوِيَّةً

Religion = simple & clear

Optimus Prime

Re: Al-Hassan (RA) superior than Al-Hussain (RA)
« Reply #4 on: March 06, 2015, 01:41:03 AM »
According to Shia al-Hasan is superior to al-Husayn also so there is no difference on this.

What're the reasons stated from our sources or indicates why Al-Hassan (RA) was superior of the two?

Hani

Re: Al-Hassan (RA) superior than Al-Hussain (RA)
« Reply #5 on: March 06, 2015, 01:43:34 AM »
Al-Hasan spent more time with the Prophet (saw) since he was older, this for me is sufficient.
عَلامَةُ أَهْلِ الْبِدَعِ الْوَقِيعَةُ فِي أَهْلِ الأَثَرِ. وَعَلامَةُ الْجَهْمِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُشَبِّهَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الْقَدَرِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُجَبِّرَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الزَّنَادِقَةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ الأَثَرِ حَشْوِيَّةً

Religion = simple & clear

Rationalist

Re: Al-Hassan (RA) superior than Al-Hussain (RA)
« Reply #6 on: March 06, 2015, 02:34:44 AM »


What're the reasons stated from our sources or indicates why Al-Hassan (RA) was superior of the two?
There is a reference in Tabari where he and his brother have a disagreement on making peace between the two groups. Imam Hassan (as) tells his brother I am more knowledgeable than you.

Optimus Prime

Re: Al-Hassan (RA) superior than Al-Hussain (RA)
« Reply #7 on: March 06, 2015, 05:14:25 AM »
Al-Hasan spent more time with the Prophet (saw) since he was older, this for me is sufficient.

Huh? Al-Hassan (RA) was only 10 months older than Al-Hussain (RA). There's hardly a difference there.

Whenever you read any narration of the Prophet's (SAW) expressing his affection for either of them they both referred too. How do we know Al-Hassan (RA) spent more time with the Prophet (SAW)?

Hani

Re: Al-Hassan (RA) superior than Al-Hussain (RA)
« Reply #8 on: March 06, 2015, 05:27:38 AM »
10 months is not enough? When it comes to Rasul-Allah (saw) every day counts and the more time spent the more one learns.
عَلامَةُ أَهْلِ الْبِدَعِ الْوَقِيعَةُ فِي أَهْلِ الأَثَرِ. وَعَلامَةُ الْجَهْمِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُشَبِّهَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الْقَدَرِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُجَبِّرَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الزَّنَادِقَةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ الأَثَرِ حَشْوِيَّةً

Religion = simple & clear

Furkan

Re: Al-Hassan (RA) superior than Al-Hussain (RA)
« Reply #9 on: March 06, 2015, 08:15:40 AM »
There is a hadith where the heroes, Hasan and Husayn are wrestling. Rasullulah (SAW) supports for Hassan (as) and then Fatima (as) asks why rasullulah (saw) isn't supporting Husayn (as) too. Rasullulah (saw) said that Jibreel (as) is supporting Husayn (as).

« Last Edit: March 06, 2015, 08:17:22 AM by Furkan »
Before Qazî Mihemed, President of the first kurdish Republic Mahabad was hanged the iranian judge asked:

“last words?”

Qazî: “I thank Allah: even in death he put my shoes above your heads”

Optimus Prime

Re: Al-Hassan (RA) superior than Al-Hussain (RA)
« Reply #10 on: March 07, 2015, 03:10:52 AM »
There is a hadith where the heroes, Hasan and Husayn are wrestling. Rasullulah (SAW) supports for Hassan (as) and then Fatima (as) asks why rasullulah (saw) isn't supporting Husayn (as) too. Rasullulah (saw) said that Jibreel (as) is supporting Husayn (as).



This is a first for me.

Post the reference, please.

Furkan

Re: Al-Hassan (RA) superior than Al-Hussain (RA)
« Reply #11 on: March 07, 2015, 10:56:09 AM »
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47fX28Mbvi4

I couldn't find exact references. On google you will across some texts only stating the name of a book. Look it up on google by " Hassan Hussein wrestling ..."
« Last Edit: March 07, 2015, 10:59:22 AM by Furkan »
Before Qazî Mihemed, President of the first kurdish Republic Mahabad was hanged the iranian judge asked:

“last words?”

Qazî: “I thank Allah: even in death he put my shoes above your heads”

Hani

Re: Al-Hassan (RA) superior than Al-Hussain (RA)
« Reply #12 on: March 08, 2015, 12:51:38 AM »
Here's your Hadith from al-Siyar and the footnote:

ابن سعد: أخبرنا علي بن محمد، عن حماد بن سلمة، عن عمار بن أبي عمار، عن ابن عباس قال: اتحد الحسن والحسين عند رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم، فجعل يقول: " هي يا حسن، خذ يا حسن "، فقالت عائشة: تعين الكبير ؟ قال: " إن جبريل يقول: خذ يا حسين

تهذيب ابن عساكر " 4 / 212، وسيورده المؤلف في الصفحة 284 من طريق آخر وفيه: " فاعتركا " بدل " اتحد " وفي " المطالب العالية ": اصطرع الحسن والحسين
عَلامَةُ أَهْلِ الْبِدَعِ الْوَقِيعَةُ فِي أَهْلِ الأَثَرِ. وَعَلامَةُ الْجَهْمِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُشَبِّهَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الْقَدَرِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُجَبِّرَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الزَّنَادِقَةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ الأَثَرِ حَشْوِيَّةً

Religion = simple & clear

Optimus Prime

Re: Al-Hassan (RA) superior than Al-Hussain (RA)
« Reply #13 on: March 08, 2015, 03:26:40 AM »
Here's your Hadith from al-Siyar and the footnote:

ابن سعد: أخبرنا علي بن محمد، عن حماد بن سلمة، عن عمار بن أبي عمار، عن ابن عباس قال: اتحد الحسن والحسين عند رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم، فجعل يقول: " هي يا حسن، خذ يا حسن "، فقالت عائشة: تعين الكبير ؟ قال: " إن جبريل يقول: خذ يا حسين

تهذيب ابن عساكر " 4 / 212، وسيورده المؤلف في الصفحة 284 من طريق آخر وفيه: " فاعتركا " بدل " اتحد " وفي " المطالب العالية ": اصطرع الحسن والحسين

Jazak'Allah brother, Hani.

Do you mind translating?

Optimus Prime

Re: Al-Hassan (RA) superior than Al-Hussain (RA)
« Reply #14 on: March 13, 2015, 06:33:28 PM »
10 months is not enough? When it comes to Rasul-Allah (saw) every day counts and the more time spent the more one learns.

When you consider the difference in age, and from the point of maturity when they're able to comprehend truly they what's being said they would've started learning together.

According to the narrations the Prophet (SAW) would always spent time with both of them together.

Allahu A'lam.

Furkan

Re: Al-Hassan (RA) superior than Al-Hussain (RA)
« Reply #15 on: March 13, 2015, 10:35:49 PM »
Can you tell us which narrations brother?
Before Qazî Mihemed, President of the first kurdish Republic Mahabad was hanged the iranian judge asked:

“last words?”

Qazî: “I thank Allah: even in death he put my shoes above your heads”

Hani

Re: Al-Hassan (RA) superior than Al-Hussain (RA)
« Reply #16 on: March 15, 2015, 10:10:00 PM »
Shia say that Imamah was given to Husayn's children because "they are closer to him in relation than his brother Hasan's progeny."

Meaning because Zayn al-`Abideen was closed in blood relation to Husayn than his brother Hasan's children.

I say: Why take such a corrupt path?

Shia in their narrations claim that Hasan was greater than Husayn, and that `Ali was greater than Hasan etc...

So why then should Imamah go from the children of the greatest Imam to the less great Imam?

Fatimah (as) had two children who ruled, after both children died, the Imamah should have went to the children of the greatest of two sons! Al-Hasan.

Makes sense?

I want to add to this, that the Rafidah, while ignorant about Allah's book, yet they quote it to establish that Imamah must continue in Husayn's progeny. They say that Allah's law dictates this, for Allah says:

{Those related by the womb are closer to one another in the decree of Allah}

They say, this is why al-Husayn's Imamah goes to his sons after him.

I say, this also means that Imamah should have went from al-Hasan ibn `Ali to his son Hasan bin Hasan instead of going to his brother al-Husayn.

So fear Allah!
عَلامَةُ أَهْلِ الْبِدَعِ الْوَقِيعَةُ فِي أَهْلِ الأَثَرِ. وَعَلامَةُ الْجَهْمِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُشَبِّهَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الْقَدَرِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُجَبِّرَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الزَّنَادِقَةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ الأَثَرِ حَشْوِيَّةً

Religion = simple & clear

Ameen

Re: Al-Hassan (RA) superior than Al-Hussain (RA)
« Reply #17 on: March 21, 2015, 03:43:01 AM »
I've heard from scholars that Hassan (RA) is more superior than his 10 month younger brother because he was more wise, mature and possessed leadership qualities.

Ok, so what is your point??? What seems to be bothering you???

Ameen

Re: Al-Hassan (RA) superior than Al-Hussain (RA)
« Reply #18 on: March 21, 2015, 03:47:53 AM »
Shia say that Imamah was given to Husayn's children because "they are closer to him in relation than his brother Hasan's progeny."

Meaning because Zayn al-`Abideen was closed in blood relation to Husayn than his brother Hasan's children.

I say: Why take such a corrupt path?

Shia in their narrations claim that Hasan was greater than Husayn, and that `Ali was greater than Hasan etc...

So why then should Imamah go from the children of the greatest Imam to the less great Imam?

Fatimah (as) had two children who ruled, after both children died, the Imamah should have went to the children of the greatest of two sons! Al-Hasan.

Makes sense?

So why didn't Imamath go from Hassan to his progeny??? Why from Hassan to Hussain and then what you assume that it should have gone to the progeny of the greatest and the better of the two??? Why not from Ali, to Hassan and then his son??? Isn't this what you suppose to be asking???

Optimus Prime

Re: Al-Hassan (RA) superior than Al-Hussain (RA)
« Reply #19 on: March 21, 2015, 03:56:07 AM »
I've heard from scholars that Hassan (RA) is more superior than his 10 month younger brother because he was more wise, mature and possessed leadership qualities.

Ok, so what is your point??? What seems to be bothering you???

What makes you ponder something is bothering me?

 

Related Topics

  Subject / Started by Replies Last post
21 Replies
3700 Views
Last post July 09, 2015, 05:43:09 PM
by Optimus Prime
57 Replies
12356 Views
Last post March 25, 2015, 02:25:12 AM
by Hani
5 Replies
1293 Views
Last post July 22, 2017, 07:44:52 PM
by MuslimAnswers
9 Replies
381 Views
Last post July 10, 2020, 09:08:27 AM
by Mythbuster1