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Bibi Fatimah AS died without giving bayah to Abu Bakr RA..?

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Shia not Rafidi

Al-saalamu Alaykum....
Dear brothers the following references are taken from notable sunni books,,these state that Bibi Fatimah AS died angry with Abu Bakr RA and told Ali RA to not inform Abu Bakr RA about her death and was buried at night,, after that Ali RA and other clan members of Banu Hashim gave bayah to Abu Bakr RA...

i want to ask :Prophet PBUH said "the one who dies without recognizing his Imam/Khalifa/Leader dies the death of Jahiliyyah"......
  • what about bibi Fatimah RA AS ?
  • Why she RA AS willed to not inform Abu Bakr RA about her death/funeral prayer ?
NOTE: Ali RA didn't give allegiance to Abu Bakr RA as long as Bibi Fatimah RA was alive...

  • Ibn Qutaybah, a 9th century Sunni Islamic scholar narrates "Ali said: I am the servant of God and the brother of the Messenger of God. I am thus more worthy of this office than you. I shall not give allegiance to you [Abu Bakr & Umar] when it is more proper for you to give bay’ah to me. You have seized this office from the Ansar using your tribal relationship to the Prophet as an argument against them. Would you then seize this office from us, the ahl al-bayt by force? Did you not claim before the Ansar that you were more worthy than they of the caliphate because Muhammad came from among you (but Muhammad was never from AbuBakr family) – and thus they gave you leadership and surrendered command? I now contend against you with the same argument…It is we who are more worthy of the Messenger of God, living or dead. Give us our due right if you truly have faith in God, or else bear the charge of wilfully doing wrong... Umar, I will not yield to your commands: I shall not pledge loyalty to him.' Ultimately Abu Bakr said, "O 'Ali! If you do not desire to give your bay'ah, I am not going to force you for the same.

  • Muhammad al-Bukhari, a 9th century Sunni Shafi'i Islamic scholar narrates "'So she became angry with Abu Bakr and kept away from him, and did not talk to him till she died. She remained alive for six months after the death of the Prophet. When she died, her husband 'Ali, buried her at night without informing Abu Bakr and he said the funeral prayer by himself.

  • Muslim ibn al-Hajjaj, a 9th century Sunni Shafi'i Jariri Islamic scholar narrates the same as Muhammad al-Bukhari.

  • Ibn Abu al-Hadid, a 13th century Mu'tazili Islamic scholar says that they did not dare to force Ali into Baya while Fatimah was alive.
#__Shia of Ali__#
#__Sunni of Prophet Muhammad__#

MuslimK

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Re: Bibi Fatimah AS died without giving bayah to Abu Bakr RA..?
« Reply #1 on: May 27, 2018, 08:50:52 PM »
Walaikum Salam,

It wasn't required for all the women to give Bayah. I am not aware of any report about Sayyida Aisha giving Bayah.

As for the meaning of the Hadith "whoever dies without recognizing...etc" then please see this article:
http://www.twelvershia.net/2015/07/09/meaning-of-death-of-jahiliyyah/

The Hadith does not mean the person dies a disbeliever.


  • Ibn Qutaybah, a 9th century Sunni Islamic scholar narrates "Ali said: I am the servant of God and the brother of the Messenger of God. I am thus more worthy of this office than you. I shall not give allegiance to you [Abu Bakr & Umar] when it is more proper for you to give bay’ah to me. You have seized this office from the Ansar using your tribal relationship to the Prophet as an argument against them. Would you then seize this office from us, the ahl al-bayt by force? Did you not claim before the Ansar that you were more worthy than they of the caliphate because Muhammad came from among you (but Muhammad was never from AbuBakr family) – and thus they gave you leadership and surrendered command? I now contend against you with the same argument…It is we who are more worthy of the Messenger of God, living or dead. Give us our due right if you truly have faith in God, or else bear the charge of wilfully doing wrong... Umar, I will not yield to your commands: I shall not pledge loyalty to him.' Ultimately Abu Bakr said, "O 'Ali! If you do not desire to give your bay'ah, I am not going to force you for the same.


I am guessing this is from a forgery called "Imamah wa Siyasah"? If it is, then it is falsely attributed to Ibn Qutaybah. 
در خلافت میل نیست ای بی‌خبر
میل کی آید ز بوبکر و عمر
میل اگر بودی در آن دو مقتدا
هر دو کردندی پسر را پیشوا

عطار نِیشابوری

www.Nahjul-Balagha.net | www.TwelverShia.net | www.ghadirkhumm.com

iceman

Re: Bibi Fatimah AS died without giving bayah to Abu Bakr RA..?
« Reply #2 on: May 27, 2018, 09:31:35 PM »
Walaikum Salam,

It wasn't required for all the women to give Bayah. I am not aware of any report about Sayyida Aisha giving Bayah.

As for the meaning of the Hadith "whoever dies without recognizing...etc" then please see this article:
http://www.twelvershia.net/2015/07/09/meaning-of-death-of-jahiliyyah/

The Hadith does not mean the person dies a disbeliever.

I am guessing this is from a forgery called "Imamah wa Siyasah"? If it is, then it is falsely attributed to Ibn Qutaybah.

This is from the article you've mentioned;

"We often hear Shias quoting, “Those that does not know his Imam will die a death of Jahiliyyah.” The narration suggests, according to Shias, that rejecting the twelfth Imam of the Shias, or rather, not acknowledging his birth, ultimately is a non-Muslim."

Is there any reference for this. 'ACCORDING TO SHIAS..............................
ULTIMATELY IS A NON MUSLIM?

Then this is mentioned at the end of the article;

"We find in Al-Kafi in the second hadith in Next Chapter after the Chapter of Drinkers of Intoxicants:

Abu Ali Al-Ash’ari from Al-Hasan bin Ali Al-Kufi from Al-Abbas bin Amer from Dawud bin Al-Husain from Abi Abdullah (as): “Whosoever drinks an intoxicant, his prayer will not be accepted for forty days. If he dead within those forty days, then he will die a death of the jahiliyyah, but if he repented then Allah will forgive him.”

Al-Majlisi declares this hadith reliable in Mir’at Al-Uqool.

As we know, Shias do not declare apostasy for those that drink intoxicants, so it makes perfect sense that what is meant here is not a death of apostasy, but a death of jahiliyyah, since people in the pre-Islamic ages used to drink a lot of intoxicants."

Notice the end bit;

"As we know, Shias do not declare apostasy for those that drink intoxicants, so it makes perfect sense that what is meant here is not a death of apostasy, but a death of jahiliyyah, since people in the pre-Islamic ages used to drink a lot of intoxicants."

So where's the reference for this bit;

We often hear Shias quoting, “Those that does not know his Imam will die a death of Jahiliyyah.” The narration suggests, according to Shias, that rejecting the twelfth Imam of the Shias, or rather, not acknowledging his birth, ultimately is a non-Muslim."


 
« Last Edit: May 27, 2018, 09:38:34 PM by iceman »

Hani

Re: Bibi Fatimah AS died without giving bayah to Abu Bakr RA..?
« Reply #3 on: May 28, 2018, 09:11:27 PM »
1- `Ali did give Bay`ah to Abu Bakr during Fatimah's life, it was on the first or second day actually.
2- Women aren't required to give Bay`ah, her guardian (i.e `Ali) did give it.
3- Death of Jahiliyyah is an expression used to imply that such person resembles the people of the times of ignorance in their conduct, it doesn't mean they're disbelievers.
4- Quote from Imamah wal-SIyasah by Ibn Qutaybah isn't reliable, attribution of the book is questionable and there is no chain for that statement.
5- Bukhari/Muslim quote is from the book of al-Zuhri, it is disconnected since he never met them. We reconcile by saying `Ali renewed his Bay`ah after six months.
6- Fatimah wished to be buried in secret out of modesty and that is praiseworthy, she didn't wish to inform anybody (e.g Abu Dharr, Salman, Abu Bakr, Bilal etc...) None of them were Mahram.
7- Fatimah died and was buried at night, nobody knew about it till the next day. Abu Bakr spoke to her and she was pleased with him a few months before she died.
8- Why does it say under your religion "Sunni"?
عَلامَةُ أَهْلِ الْبِدَعِ الْوَقِيعَةُ فِي أَهْلِ الأَثَرِ. وَعَلامَةُ الْجَهْمِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُشَبِّهَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الْقَدَرِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُجَبِّرَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الزَّنَادِقَةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ الأَثَرِ حَشْوِيَّةً

Religion = simple & clear

Noor-us-Sunnah

Re: Bibi Fatimah AS died without giving bayah to Abu Bakr RA..?
« Reply #4 on: May 28, 2018, 10:16:41 PM »
Answer:

Regarding the issue of Bay`ah or in English “Pledge of allegiance”, it was not recorded in history that women gave allegiance to the Caliphs, usually it is Ahlul-Hall wal-`Aqd who give the pledge then the women and children just follow along, what is meant by Ahlul-Hall wal-`Aqd are the leaders of the society, and it is common knowledge that the leader of the Islamic society at that time were the closest companions of The Prophet (SAWS), the Mouhajirun and the Ansar and they all gave Abu Bakr (ra) a pledge of allegiance.

Aside from the fact that women do not give a pledge of allegiance, In Islam not every single person is required to go and give the pledge of allegiance, so for the women it was enough that their husbands or male relatives or tribal leaders went and gave a pledge of allegiance, also there was no need for every single man to go and give a pledge and put his hand in the hand of the Caliph.

Let us give an idea to the readers, of what we are talking about, let’s say that the tribe of bani Hanifa in the land of Hijaz had a population of 5,000 people, and let’s say that they wanted to give allegiance to Abu Bakr (ra), does it means that the entire tribe of 5,000 men, women and children would travel all the way to Madinah, and each of them would give Abu Bakr (ra) allegiance and place their hands in his hand one by one? That is unheard of in Islam, what actually happens is that each tribe would send some representatives, maybe 13 men, maybe 4, and these men who are considered the leaders of those tribes would then give allegiance to Abu Bakr (ra), as for distant lands let’s say for example in the city of Kufa in `Iraq there would be a governor appointed by the Caliph, and the leaders of each tribe in `Iraq would meet up with this appointed governor and give him allegiance.

So for Fatima (ra) and all other women from bani Hashim, it was enough that the head of the family would go and give Abu Bakr (ra) allegiance, that would basically mean that all of them gave allegiance. And we know `Ali (ra) was appointed as head of bani Hashim, he was responsible for their affair and he gave Abu Bakr (ra) a Bay`ah.

And `Ali (ra) gave Abu Bakr (ra) Bay`ah(allegiance) on the very first day as is recorded in the authentic narration:

Abu Sa’eed al Khudri may Allah be pleased with him said: When the Prophet’s (SAWS) soul passed away and when the people gathered at the place of Sa’ad bin Ubadah and amongst them were Abu Bakr and `Umar, a Khatib(Speaker) from the Ansar(Supporters) spoke: “You know that the Prophet of Allah (SAWS) was from the Mouhajirun(immigrants) and his Caliph(Successor) must also be from the Mouhajirun, we were the supporters of the Prophet (SAWS) and we will be the supporters of his successor(Caliph) just as we were his supporters”. then `Umar bin al Khattab stood up and said: “This Man from amongst the Ansar speaks truth, and if it were anything other than this then we would not give you a bay’ah(Pledge of allegiance).” Then he grabbed the hand of Abu Bakr and said: “This is your close companion so give him Bay’ah.” Then `Umar and the Mouhajirun and the Ansar all gave him Bay’ah. Abu Bakr stood on the Mimbar and he looked at the faces of all the people there but he never saw al-Zubair so he called for him and and he came so he told him: “O son of the Prophet’s (SAWS) aunt and his disciple would you want to split the cause of the Muslims?” al-Zubair said: “Not at all O Caliph of the Prophet of Allah.” then he stood up and gave him Bay’ah, Then he looked at the faces of the people again but did not spot `Ali so he called for `Ali bin abi Talib and he came to him so he said: “O cousin of the prophet of Allah and the husband of his daughter would you want to split the cause of the Muslims?” So `Ali replied: “Not at all O Caliph of the Prophet of Allah.” then he stood and gave him Bay’ah.

sources:
-Mujama’a al Zawa’ed (5/183) with its Rijal being those of the SAHIH.
-Al Bidayah wal nihayah (5/281) with its Isnad being Thabit and SAHIH.
-Al Mustadrak (3/76) and al Sunan al Kubrah (8/143) with two SAHIH Isnads.

So we came to know that, in the case of Fatima(ra) it was her husband(ra) who gave a pledge of allegiance to Abu Bakr (ra) and she just followed along, the Caliphs never demanded or asked for the pledge of allegiance from women, so whether she went or didn’t go doesn’t matter.

Moreover, We read in an authentic narration from “Ithaf al-Khayarah al-Maharah” by al-Bouwaysiri, that
وَقَالَ أَبُو يَعْلَى الْمُوصِلِيُّ حَدَّثَنَا عَبْدُ الرَّحْمَنِ بْنُ صَالِحٍ ، حَدَّثَنَا مُحَمَّدُ بْنُ فُضَيْلٍ ، عَنِ الْوَلِيدِ بْنِ جُمَيْعٍ ، عَنْ أَبِي الطُّفَيْلِ ، قَالَ : جَاءَتْ فَاطِمَةُ إِلَى أَبِي بَكْرٍ ، فَقَالَتْ : يَا خَلِيفَةَ رَسُولِ الله.
Abi al-Tufayl said: Fatima came to Abu Bakr and said: “O Khalipha of Rasool-Allah (SAWS)…

This is a clear proof that like her husband(Ali) and the rest of believers, even Fatima(ra) accepted Abubakr(ra) as the Khalipha of Prophet(saw). Had it been that she didn’t accept Abubakr(ra) as the Khalipha, she wouldn’t have used those terms, since we know that dignified Arabs would never call a person with a sacred title, unless they truly believe that the person deserves that sacred title. For example, Suhail bin Amr who was a disbeliever at the time of treaty of Hudaibiyah, didn’t allow Muslims to write the words “(Messenger of Allah)” after name Muhammad(saw) in the treaty. So how could Fatima(ra) the leader of women in paradise call Abubakr(ra) Khalipha of Rasool Allah, if she don’t consider him to be so.

Also one of the biggest scholars of the Muslims and Fatima’s (ra) great-grandson Muhammad bin `Ali stated that he does not know of anyone from his family was not loyal and obedient to Abu Bakr (ra), it is narrated:
from Bassam bin `Abdullah al-Sayrafi: I asked Abu Ja`far(al-Baqir): “What do you say about Abu Bakr and ‘Umar may Allah be pleased with them?” He replied: “By Allah I am loyal to them and I ask Allah to forgive them and we never knew anyone from our family who was not loyal to them.“ (“Fadael al-Sahaba wa Manaqibihim wa Qawl Ba’adihim fi Ba’ad” by al-Imam al-Darqutni.
grading: Hadith Hassan(good).

Based on the above the matter is as clear as daylight. Fatima(ra) was pleased with Abu Bakr(ra) and loyal to him and so was her entire family, how can she not be pleased with the beloved companion of her father (SAWS)?

Thus, as for Fatima(ra) giving Abubakr(ra) a pledge of allegiance or a Bay`ah, this is not required from women in Islam and we have never read any Caliph demanding women to offer such a pledge. Moreover, it was never recorded in any instance that Fatima (ra) disobeyed Abu Bakr (ra).

Moreover, the report from Sahi bukhari, which states that Fatima(ra) was angry and didn’t speak to Abubakr(ra) until she died, is usually used by Shias to assume that Fatima(ra) didn’t give allegiance to Abubakr(ra), but the fact is that this report is from the idraaj(interpolations) of famous narrator Zuhri, who was criticized for interpolations. The part which Shias use from the hadeeth is from his interpolations, because he misunderstood and equated silence with anger. A detailed research has been done in our article on this subject where we have proven that, this part is not reliable. (Refer this link).

Secondly even if supposedly one accepts this unreliable interpolation then too, this is not a proof that Fatima(ra) removed herself from obedience to Caliph Abubakr(ra). It would be considered as a disagreement between them, and the history is filled with cases where people disagreed with the decision of their Caliphs, but this doesn’t imply in any way that they refused to give allegiance nor that they broke their allegiance. Especially, when we know the noble character of Fatima(ra) and Abubakr(ra), as these were the people who never preferred worldly possessions over the hereafter. It’s in fact thinking low of Fatima(ra), that because of a worldly possession(land of fadak), Fatima(ra)  didn’t give allegiance or broke it. Imam Ahmed bin Hanbal(rah) was tortured by the Caliph of his time, but this doesn’t implies that He broke allegiance from the Caliph. These are assumptions of Shias which has no basis.

https://youpuncturedtheark.wordpress.com/2014/01/29/hadeeth-explanation-whoever-died-without-an-imam-he-dies-a-death-of-jahilyyah/

Hadrami

Re: Bibi Fatimah AS died without giving bayah to Abu Bakr RA..?
« Reply #5 on: May 29, 2018, 10:49:44 PM »
Logically in a tribal society when a man accept someone as his leader then his wife, kids & other people under his care are automatically considered to have done the same thing. Maybe shia reckon they had democratic system of 1 person 1 vote back then? 😂

Shia not Rafidi

Re: Bibi Fatimah AS died without giving bayah to Abu Bakr RA..?
« Reply #6 on: May 30, 2018, 07:15:07 AM »
6- Fatimah wished to be buried in secret out of modesty and that is praiseworthy, she didn't wish to inform anybody (e.g Abu Dharr, Salman, Abu Bakr, Bilal etc...) None of them were Mahram.
7- Fatimah died and was buried at night, nobody knew about it till the next day. Abu Bakr spoke to her and she was pleased with him a few months before she died.
Is there any reliable narration of Bibi Fatimah RA willing that Shaykhayn RA must not attend her Funeral prayer or it is only the words of Bukhari which are misunderstood by Rafidis ?

8- Why does it say under your religion "Sunni"?
cz i am a sunni sister...the questions i asked are for just mental satisfaction...
#__Shia of Ali__#
#__Sunni of Prophet Muhammad__#

Noor-us-Sunnah

Re: Bibi Fatimah AS died without giving bayah to Abu Bakr RA..?
« Reply #7 on: May 30, 2018, 03:26:06 PM »
I havent come across any reliable report which specifically says that Shaykhayn shouldnt attend the funeral of fatima(ra). What is known is that Fatima(ra) didnt want any man(ghayr mahram) to attend her funeral.

We read in Shia book, Illal ul sharai , under Chapter 149: (The reason for which Fatima (as) was buried at night and not buried at daytime) that:

حدثنا علي بن احمد بن محمد رضى الله عنه قال: حدثنا محمد بن أبى عبد الله الكوفي قال: حدثنا موسى بن عمران النخعي، عن عمه الحسين بن يزيد عن الحسن ابن علي بن أبى حمزة، عن أبيه قال: سألت أبا عبد الله ” ع ” لاي علة دفنت فاطمة عليها السلام بالليل ولم تدفن بالنهار؟ قال: لانها أوصت ان لا يصلي عليها رجال

Told us Ali b. Ahmad b. Muhammad (ra) who said: Told us Muhammad b. Abi Abdullah al Kufi who said: Told us Musa b. Imran al Nakha’i, from his uncle al Hussain b. Yazid from al Hasan b. Ali b. Abi Hamza, from his father who said: (I) asked Aba Abdullah (as) for what reason Fatima(as) was buried at night and not buried at daytime? (Imam(as)) said: “For indeed she had willed/bequeathed that men(plural) should not pray upon her.”

Abu Rumaysah

Re: Bibi Fatimah AS died without giving bayah to Abu Bakr RA..?
« Reply #8 on: June 09, 2018, 12:27:06 PM »
I havent come across any reliable report which specifically says that Shaykhayn shouldnt attend the funeral of fatima(ra). What is known is that Fatima(ra) didnt want any man(ghayr mahram) to attend her funeral.

We read in Shia book, Illal ul sharai , under Chapter 149: (The reason for which Fatima (as) was buried at night and not buried at daytime) that:

حدثنا علي بن احمد بن محمد رضى الله عنه قال: حدثنا محمد بن أبى عبد الله الكوفي قال: حدثنا موسى بن عمران النخعي، عن عمه الحسين بن يزيد عن الحسن ابن علي بن أبى حمزة، عن أبيه قال: سألت أبا عبد الله ” ع ” لاي علة دفنت فاطمة عليها السلام بالليل ولم تدفن بالنهار؟ قال: لانها أوصت ان لا يصلي عليها رجال

Told us Ali b. Ahmad b. Muhammad (ra) who said: Told us Muhammad b. Abi Abdullah al Kufi who said: Told us Musa b. Imran al Nakha’i, from his uncle al Hussain b. Yazid from al Hasan b. Ali b. Abi Hamza, from his father who said: (I) asked Aba Abdullah (as) for what reason Fatima(as) was buried at night and not buried at daytime? (Imam(as)) said: “For indeed she had willed/bequeathed that men(plural) should not pray upon her.”

as-Salam Alaykum.

Weak.

Ali ibn Abi Hamza - cursed waqifi
وقال ابن الغضائرى: علي بن أبي حمزة، لعنه اللّه أصل الوقف، وأشد الخلقعداوة للولي من بعد أبي أبراهيم عليهما السلام

His son al-Hasan - weak, liar.
وقال ابن الغضائري:(الحسن بن علي بن أبي حمزة البطائني مولى الأنصار أبو محمد واقفي ابن واقفي ضعيف في نفسه وأبوه أوثق منه) . وقال الحسن بن علي بن فضال:(أني لأستحي من الله أن أروي عن الحسن بن علي، وحديث الرضا فيه مشهور...ألخ)

وروى الكشي في ترجمة شعيب العقرقوفي رواية طويلة ثم قال في آخرها:(قال أبو عمرو: محمد بن عبد الله بن مهران غالٍ. والحسن بن علي بن أبي حمزة كذّاب غالٍ. قال: ولم أسمع في شعيب إلاّ خيراً وأولياؤه أعلم بهذه الرواية)

Shia not Rafidi

Re: Bibi Fatimah AS died without giving bayah to Abu Bakr RA..?
« Reply #9 on: June 09, 2018, 12:50:59 PM »
as-Salam Alaykum.

Weak.

Ali ibn Abi Hamza - cursed waqifi
وقال ابن الغضائرى: علي بن أبي حمزة، لعنه اللّه أصل الوقف، وأشد الخلقعداوة للولي من بعد أبي أبراهيم عليهما السلام

His son al-Hasan - weak, liar.
وقال ابن الغضائري:(الحسن بن علي بن أبي حمزة البطائني مولى الأنصار أبو محمد واقفي ابن واقفي ضعيف في نفسه وأبوه أوثق منه) . وقال الحسن بن علي بن فضال:(أني لأستحي من الله أن أروي عن الحسن بن علي، وحديث الرضا فيه مشهور...ألخ)

وروى الكشي في ترجمة شعيب العقرقوفي رواية طويلة ثم قال في آخرها:(قال أبو عمرو: محمد بن عبد الله بن مهران غالٍ. والحسن بن علي بن أبي حمزة كذّاب غالٍ. قال: ولم أسمع في شعيب إلاّ خيراً وأولياؤه أعلم بهذه الرواية)

So whats ur point of view why She RA was burried at night and why Shaykhayn RA didn't participate in her funeral
#__Shia of Ali__#
#__Sunni of Prophet Muhammad__#

Abu Rumaysah

Re: Bibi Fatimah AS died without giving bayah to Abu Bakr RA..?
« Reply #10 on: June 10, 2018, 04:50:50 PM »
So whats ur point of view why She RA was burried at night and why Shaykhayn RA didn't participate in her funeral

Sufficient information below.

http://mahajjah.com/the-contention-around-the-funeral-prayer-of-fatimah/

Ijtaba

Re: Bibi Fatimah AS died without giving bayah to Abu Bakr RA..?
« Reply #11 on: June 10, 2018, 10:04:15 PM »
Sufficient information below.

http://mahajjah.com/the-contention-around-the-funeral-prayer-of-fatimah/

What is the authenticity of following narrations according to Ahlul Sunnah? Are these narrations Authentic or Weak?

Quote
Narrations Which Establish his Presence in the Funeral

1. The following narration has been cited by the author of Tabaqat Ibn Sa`d:

 
عن حماد عن إبراهيم النخعي قال صلي أبو بكر الصديق علي فاطمة بنت رسول الله صلي الله عليه وسلم فكبر أربعا

Ibrahim al-Nakha`i has stated that Abu Bakr led the Salat al-Janazah of Fatimah and recited the takbir four times.[2]

 
2. A second narration in Tabaqat suggests the very same. It read as follows:

 
عن مجالد عن الشعبي قال صلي عليها أبوبكر رضي الله عنه و عنها

Sha`bi has mentioned that Abu Bakr lead her Salat al-Janazah. May Allah subhanahu wa ta `ala, be pleased with him and with her.[3]

 
3. The third narration in this regard appears in al-Sunan al-Kubra of Imam Bayhaqi. He writes:

 
ثنا محمد بن عثمان بن أبي شيبة ثنا عون بن سلام ثنا سوار بن مصعب عن مجالد عن الشعبي أن فاطمة ماتت دفنها علي ليلا و أخذ بضبعي أبي بكر الصديق رضي الله عنه فقدمه يعني في الصلوة عليها.

When Fatimah passed away `Ali buried her by night and caught hold of the arms of Abu Bakr and urged him to lead the Salat al-Janazah.[4]

 
4. `Ali al-Muttaqi al-Hindi, the author of Kanz al-`Ummal, has, with reference to al-Khatib al-Baghdadi cited the following narration, the narrator of which is Imam Muhammad al-Baqir:

 
عن جعفر عن أبيه قال ماتت فاطمة بنت رسول الله صلي الله عليه وسلم فجاء أبوبكر وعمر ليصلوا فقال ابوبكر لعلي بن أبي طالب تقدم فقال ما كنت لأتقدم و أنت خليفة رسول الله صلي الله عليه وسلم فتقدم أبو بكر فصلي عليها

Imam Ja`far narrates from his father, Imam Muhammad al-Baqir: “When Fatimah the daughter of Rasulullah salla Llahu `alayhi wa sallam passed away, Abu Bakr and `Umar came to perform her Salat al-Janazah. Abu Bakr said to `Ali: “Go ahead and lead the Salah.” He said: “It is unbecoming of me to lead the Salah when you are the successor of Rasulullah salla Llahu `alayhi wa sallam.” Abu Bakr hence went forward and led the Salat al-Janazah.[5]

 
5. Muhibb al-Din al-Tabari has cited the following narration, narrated by Imam Zayn al-`Abidin, in his book Riyad al-Nadarah fi Manaqib al-`Asharah al-Mubashsharah:

 
عن مالك عن جعفر بن محمد عن أبيه عن جده علي بن حسين قال ماتت فاطمة بين المغرب والعشاء فحضرها أبوبكر وعمر وعثمان والزبير و عبدالرحمن بن عوف فلما وضعت ليصلي عليها قال علي تقدم يا أبابكر قال وأنت شاهد يا أبا الحسن؟ قال نعم تقدم فوالله لايصلي عليها غيرك فصلي عليها أبو بكر رضي الله عنهم أجمعين و دفنت ليلا. (خرجه البصري وخرجه السمان في الموافقة).

Imam Ja`far al-Sadiq narrates from his father, Imam Muhammad al-Baqir, who narrates from his father, Imam `Ali Zayn al-`Abidin: “Fatimah passed away between the Maghrib and `Isha’ prayers. Abu Bakr, `Umar, `Uthman, Zubayr and `Abd al-Rahman ibn `Awf came for her Salat al-Janazah. Hence `Ali said to Abu Bakr: “Go ahead and perform the Salah.” He asked: “Whilst you are present here O Abu al-Hasan?” “Yes! Go ahead! For no one besides you, by the oath of Allah, is going to lead the Salah today.” Consequently Abu Bakr led them in her Salat al-Janazah (May Allah be pleased with them all). She was buried by night.[6]

 
6. Shah `Abd al-`Aziz has quoted a very similar narration to this in his book, Tuhfah Ithna `Ashariyah, eliciting it from the book Fasl al-Khitab. This narration is presented below in order to support the narration of Riyad al-Nadarah:

 
در فصل خطاب آوردہ کہ ابو بکر و عثمان و عبد الرحمن بن عوف و زبیر بن عوام وقت نماز عشاء حاضر شدند ورحلت حضرت فاطمہ درمیان مغرب وعشاء سہ شنبہ سوم ماہ رمضان (11ہ) بعد از ششماہ از واقعہ سرور جہان بوقوع آمدہ بود وابو بکر بموجب گفتہ علی مرتضی پیش امام شد ونماز بروے گذاشت وچہار تکبیر آورد۔

The narration of Fasl al-Khitab states that Abu bakr, `Uthman, `Abd al-Rahman ibn `Awf, Zubayr ibn `Awwam came at the time of the `Isha’ salah. Fatimah had passed away between Maghrib and `Isha’ on Tuesday night the third of Ramadan, six months after the demise of the master of the world. She was thirty eight years of age at the time. Abu Bakr had led the Salat al-Janazah with the order of `Ali with four takbirs.[7]

 
7. Hafiz Abu Nu`aym al-Isfahani has narrated the following with his consistent chain of transmission:

 
عن ميمون بن مهران عن عبد الله بن عباس أن النبي صلي الله عليه وسلم أتي بجنازة فصلي عليها و كبر عليها أربعا و قال كبرت الملائكة علي آدم أربع تكبيرات و كبر أبو بكر علي فاطمة أربعا و كبر عمر علي أبي بكر أربعا و كبر صهيب علي عمر أربعا.

Ibn `Abbas narrates that once Nabi salla Llahu `alayhi wa sallam performed the Salat al-Janazah of a deceased person with four Takbirs and said: “The angels read four takbirs upon Adam `alayh al-Salam. Abu Bakr will read four Takbirs upon Fatimah. `Umar will read four takbirs upon Abu Bakr and Suhaib will read four Takbirs upon `Umar.”[8]

Hani

Re: Bibi Fatimah AS died without giving bayah to Abu Bakr RA..?
« Reply #12 on: June 16, 2018, 10:53:41 AM »
1- A very good chain for a historical narration, I'd accept it if it didn't contradict stronger chains. Mughirah is a Mudallis so he weakens it, `Amir didn't witness the event but his Mursal is very solid.
2- Weak because of Mujalid.
3- Weak because of Mujalid as well.
4- Seems disconnected to begin with since al-Sadiq didn't witness however usually his reports about his family's matters are accepted. Kanz-ul-`Ummal is not a primary source and he seems to have gotten it from (الخطيب فى رواة مالك) and I did not find it in the printed version. Ja`far's narrations are usually suspect since many liars narrated from him.
5- Muhibb-ul-Din made the dumb mistake of compiling a valuable book of Hadith without including any chains, so we have no link to `Ali bin Husayn. (Interestingly, this report is also attributed to Malik just like the one before it)
6- This book is not an Arabic, I heard it was translated recently.
7- This last one is interesting since I also found it from Ibn `Umar with a weak chain containing Furat bin al-Sa'ib as stated by Busayri. So here are its two chains, first is from Musnad al-Harith attributed to Ibn `Umar:
حَدَّثَنَا حَفْصُ بْنُ حَمْزَةَ ، حَدَّثَنَا فُرَاتُ بْنُ السَّائِبِ ، حَدَّثَنَا مَيْمُونُ بْنُ مِهْرَانَ ، حَدَّثَنَا عَبْدُ اللهِ بْنُ عُمَرَ
Second is from abu Nu`aym's Hilyah attributed to Ibn `Abbas:
حَدَّثَنَا عَبْدُ اللهِ بْنُ مُحَمَّدِ بْنِ جَعْفَرٍ، ثنا مُحَمَّدُ بْنُ عَبْدِ اللهِ، رُسْتَهْ، ثنا شَيْبَانُ بْنُ فَرُّوخٍ، ثنا مُحَمَّدُ بْنُ زِيَادٍ، عَنْ مَيْمُونِ بْنِ مِهْرَانَ، عَنِ ابْنِ عَبَّاسٍ
In both cases extremely weak due to the individuals narrating from Maymun.

So in short, they're all terrible chains, except the first, it's acceptable for historians standards as long as it doesn't oppose something stronger. (which I assume it does)
عَلامَةُ أَهْلِ الْبِدَعِ الْوَقِيعَةُ فِي أَهْلِ الأَثَرِ. وَعَلامَةُ الْجَهْمِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُشَبِّهَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الْقَدَرِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُجَبِّرَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الزَّنَادِقَةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ الأَثَرِ حَشْوِيَّةً

Religion = simple & clear

Ijtaba

Re: Bibi Fatimah AS died without giving bayah to Abu Bakr RA..?
« Reply #13 on: June 19, 2018, 03:36:21 PM »
Thanks Brother Hani for the information on the authenticity of the hadiths.

Hani

Re: Bibi Fatimah AS died without giving bayah to Abu Bakr RA..?
« Reply #14 on: June 23, 2018, 05:49:29 AM »
I hope ur following us on the YT channel bro, most our activity moved there.
عَلامَةُ أَهْلِ الْبِدَعِ الْوَقِيعَةُ فِي أَهْلِ الأَثَرِ. وَعَلامَةُ الْجَهْمِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُشَبِّهَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الْقَدَرِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُجَبِّرَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الزَّنَادِقَةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ الأَثَرِ حَشْوِيَّةً

Religion = simple & clear

Shia not Rafidi

Re: Bibi Fatimah AS died without giving bayah to Abu Bakr RA..?
« Reply #15 on: June 25, 2018, 08:52:47 AM »
I hope ur following us on the YT channel bro, most our activity moved there.

hey send me link to that channel plz
#__Shia of Ali__#
#__Sunni of Prophet Muhammad__#

Ijtaba

Re: Bibi Fatimah AS died without giving bayah to Abu Bakr RA..?
« Reply #16 on: June 25, 2018, 01:09:51 PM »
I hope ur following us on the YT channel bro, most our activity moved there.

I do visit your YouTube channel. I haven't watched your new series on the origins yet but hope to watch the series as soon as I get free time.

Hani

عَلامَةُ أَهْلِ الْبِدَعِ الْوَقِيعَةُ فِي أَهْلِ الأَثَرِ. وَعَلامَةُ الْجَهْمِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُشَبِّهَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الْقَدَرِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُجَبِّرَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الزَّنَادِقَةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ الأَثَرِ حَشْوِيَّةً

Religion = simple & clear

 

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