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Did Ali hate Omar ? Sahih Bukhari

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al-kulayni

Did Ali hate Omar ? Sahih Bukhari
« on: September 17, 2015, 07:28:34 PM »
Assalamu Aleykum brothers,

In this hadith we read that Ali didn't want Omar (raa) to come with Abu Bakr (raa) at his home, what do the scholars say about this sentence in red ? Is this an idraj from Al Zuhri like the blue part ?

Jazakum Llahu kheyran

Quote
Narrated `Aisha:

Fatima the daughter of the Prophet (ﷺ) sent someone to Abu Bakr (when he was a caliph), asking for her inheritance of what Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) had left of the property bestowed on him by Allah from the Fai (i.e. booty gained without fighting) in Medina, and Fadak, and what remained of the Khumus of the Khaibar booty. On that, Abu Bakr said, "Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) said, "Our property is not inherited. Whatever we leave, is Sadaqa, but the family of (the Prophet) Muhammad can eat of this property.' By Allah, I will not make any change in the state of the Sadaqa of Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) and will leave it as it was during the lifetime of Allah's Messenger (ﷺ), and will dispose of it as Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) used to do." So Abu Bakr refused to give anything of that to Fatima. So she became angry with Abu Bakr and kept away from him, and did not task to him till she died. She remained alive for six months after the death of the Prophet. When she died, her husband `Ali, buried her at night without informing Abu Bakr and he said the funeral prayer by himself. When Fatima was alive, the people used to respect `Ali much, but after her death, `Ali noticed a change in the people's attitude towards him. So `Ali sought reconciliation with Abu Bakr and gave him an oath of allegiance. `Ali had not given the oath of allegiance during those months (i.e. the period between the Prophet's death and Fatima's death). `Ali sent someone to Abu Bakr saying, "Come to us, but let nobody come with you," as he disliked that `Umar should come, `Umar said (to Abu Bakr), "No, by Allah, you shall not enter upon them alone " Abu Bakr said, "What do you think they will do to me? By Allah, I will go to them' So Abu Bakr entered upon them, and then `Ali uttered Tashah-hud and said (to Abu Bakr), "We know well your superiority and what Allah has given you, and we are not jealous of the good what Allah has bestowed upon you, but you did not consult us in the question of the rule and we thought that we have got a right in it because of our near relationship to Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) ." Thereupon Abu Bakr's eyes flowed with tears. And when Abu Bakr spoke, he said, "By Him in Whose Hand my soul is to keep good relations with the relatives of Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) is dearer to me than to keep good relations with my own relatives. But as for the trouble which arose between me and you about his property, I will do my best to spend it according to what is good, and will not leave any rule or regulation which I saw Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) following, in disposing of it, but I will follow." On that `Ali said to Abu Bakr, "I promise to give you the oath of allegiance in this after noon." So when Abu Bakr had offered the Zuhr prayer, he ascended the pulpit and uttered the Tashah-hud and then mentioned the story of `Ali and his failure to give the oath of allegiance, and excused him, accepting what excuses he had offered; Then `Ali (got up) and praying (to Allah) for forgiveness, he uttered Tashah-hud, praised Abu Bakr's right, and said, that he had not done what he had done because of jealousy of Abu Bakr or as a protest of that Allah had favored him with. `Ali added, "But we used to consider that we too had some right in this affair (of rulership) and that he (i.e. Abu Bakr) did not consult us in this matter, and therefore caused us to feel sorry." On that all the Muslims became happy and said, "You have done the right thing." The Muslims then became friendly with `Ali as he returned to what the people had done (i.e. giving the oath of allegiance to Abu Bakr).


حَدَّثَنَا يَحْيَى بْنُ بُكَيْرٍ، حَدَّثَنَا اللَّيْثُ، عَنْ عُقَيْلٍ، عَنِ ابْنِ شِهَابٍ، عَنْ عُرْوَةَ، عَنْ عَائِشَةَ، أَنَّ فَاطِمَةَ ـ عَلَيْهَا السَّلاَمُ ـ بِنْتَ النَّبِيِّ صلى الله عليه وسلم أَرْسَلَتْ إِلَى أَبِي بَكْرٍ تَسْأَلُهُ مِيرَاثَهَا مِنْ رَسُولِ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم مِمَّا أَفَاءَ اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ بِالْمَدِينَةِ وَفَدَكَ، وَمَا بَقِيَ مِنْ خُمُسِ خَيْبَرَ، فَقَالَ أَبُو بَكْرٍ إِنَّ رَسُولَ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم قَالَ ‏ "‏ لاَ نُورَثُ، مَا تَرَكْنَا صَدَقَةٌ، إِنَّمَا يَأْكُلُ آلُ مُحَمَّدٍ صلى الله عليه وسلم فِي هَذَا الْمَالِ ‏"‏‏.‏ وَإِنِّي وَاللَّهِ لاَ أُغَيِّرُ شَيْئًا مِنْ صَدَقَةِ رَسُولِ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم عَنْ حَالِهَا الَّتِي كَانَ عَلَيْهَا فِي عَهْدِ رَسُولِ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم وَلأَعْمَلَنَّ فِيهَا بِمَا عَمِلَ بِهِ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم فَأَبَى أَبُو بَكْرٍ أَنْ يَدْفَعَ إِلَى فَاطِمَةَ مِنْهَا شَيْئًا فَوَجَدَتْ فَاطِمَةُ عَلَى أَبِي بَكْرٍ فِي ذَلِكَ فَهَجَرَتْهُ، فَلَمْ تُكَلِّمْهُ حَتَّى تُوُفِّيَتْ، وَعَاشَتْ بَعْدَ النَّبِيِّ صلى الله عليه وسلم سِتَّةَ أَشْهُرٍ، فَلَمَّا تُوُفِّيَتْ، دَفَنَهَا زَوْجُهَا عَلِيٌّ لَيْلاً، وَلَمْ يُؤْذِنْ بِهَا أَبَا بَكْرٍ وَصَلَّى عَلَيْهَا، وَكَانَ لِعَلِيٍّ مِنَ النَّاسِ وَجْهٌ حَيَاةَ فَاطِمَةَ، فَلَمَّا تُوُفِّيَتِ اسْتَنْكَرَ عَلِيٌّ وُجُوهَ النَّاسِ، فَالْتَمَسَ مُصَالَحَةَ أَبِي بَكْرٍ وَمُبَايَعَتَهُ، وَلَمْ يَكُنْ يُبَايِعُ تِلْكَ الأَشْهُرَ، فَأَرْسَلَ إِلَى أَبِي بَكْرٍ أَنِ ائْتِنَا، وَلاَ يَأْتِنَا أَحَدٌ مَعَكَ، كَرَاهِيَةً لِمَحْضَرِ عُمَرَ‏.‏ فَقَالَ عُمَرُ لاَ وَاللَّهِ لاَ تَدْخُلُ عَلَيْهِمْ وَحْدَكَ‏.‏ فَقَالَ أَبُو بَكْرٍ وَمَا عَسَيْتَهُمْ أَنْ يَفْعَلُوا بِي، وَاللَّهِ لآتِيَنَّهُمْ‏.‏ فَدَخَلَ عَلَيْهِمْ أَبُو بَكْرٍ، فَتَشَهَّدَ عَلِيٌّ فَقَالَ إِنَّا قَدْ عَرَفْنَا فَضْلَكَ، وَمَا أَعْطَاكَ، اللَّهُ وَلَمْ نَنْفَسْ عَلَيْكَ خَيْرًا سَاقَهُ اللَّهُ إِلَيْكَ، وَلَكِنَّكَ اسْتَبْدَدْتَ عَلَيْنَا بِالأَمْرِ، وَكُنَّا نَرَى لِقَرَابَتِنَا مِنْ رَسُولِ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم نَصِيبًا‏.‏ حَتَّى فَاضَتْ عَيْنَا أَبِي بَكْرٍ، فَلَمَّا تَكَلَّمَ أَبُو بَكْرٍ قَالَ وَالَّذِي نَفْسِي بِيَدِهِ لَقَرَابَةُ رَسُولِ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم أَحَبُّ إِلَىَّ أَنْ أَصِلَ مِنْ قَرَابَتِي، وَأَمَّا الَّذِي شَجَرَ بَيْنِي وَبَيْنَكُمْ مِنْ هَذِهِ الأَمْوَالِ، فَلَمْ آلُ فِيهَا عَنِ الْخَيْرِ، وَلَمْ أَتْرُكْ أَمْرًا رَأَيْتُ رَسُولَ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم يَصْنَعُهُ فِيهَا إِلاَّ صَنَعْتُهُ‏.‏ فَقَالَ عَلِيٌّ لأَبِي بَكْرٍ مَوْعِدُكَ الْعَشِيَّةُ لِلْبَيْعَةِ‏.‏ فَلَمَّا صَلَّى أَبُو بَكْرٍ الظُّهْرَ رَقِيَ عَلَى الْمِنْبَرِ، فَتَشَهَّدَ وَذَكَرَ شَأْنَ عَلِيٍّ، وَتَخَلُّفَهُ عَنِ الْبَيْعَةِ، وَعُذْرَهُ بِالَّذِي اعْتَذَرَ إِلَيْهِ، ثُمَّ اسْتَغْفَرَ، وَتَشَهَّدَ عَلِيٌّ فَعَظَّمَ حَقَّ أَبِي بَكْرٍ، وَحَدَّثَ أَنَّهُ لَمْ يَحْمِلْهُ عَلَى الَّذِي صَنَعَ نَفَاسَةً عَلَى أَبِي بَكْرٍ، وَلاَ إِنْكَارًا لِلَّذِي فَضَّلَهُ اللَّهُ بِهِ، وَلَكِنَّا نَرَى لَنَا فِي هَذَا الأَمْرِ نَصِيبًا، فَاسْتَبَدَّ عَلَيْنَا، فَوَجَدْنَا فِي أَنْفُسِنَا، فَسُرَّ بِذَلِكَ الْمُسْلِمُونَ وَقَالُوا أَصَبْتَ‏.‏ وَكَانَ الْمُسْلِمُونَ إِلَى عَلِيٍّ قَرِيبًا، حِينَ رَاجَعَ الأَمْرَ الْمَعْرُوفَ‏.‏

Al Dukhan

Re: Did Ali hate Omar ? Sahih Bukhari
« Reply #1 on: September 18, 2015, 04:35:48 PM »
Assalamu Aleykum brothers,

In this hadith we read that Ali didn't want Omar (raa) to come with Abu Bakr (raa) at his home, what do the scholars say about this sentence in red ? Is this an idraj from Al Zuhri like the blue part ?

Jazakum Llahu kheyran

Quote
‎‏
[Ali added, "But we used to consider that we too had
"some right in this affair"! (of rulership) and that he (i.e. Abu Bakr) did not consult us in this matter, and therefore caused us to feel sorry." On that all the
"Muslims became happy"! and said, "You have done the right thing." The Muslims then became friendly with `Ali as he returned to what the people had done (i.e. giving the oath of allegiance to Abu Bakr).


حَدَّثَنَا يَحْيَى بْنُ بُكَيْرٍ، حَدَّثَنَا اللَّيْثُ، عَنْ عُقَيْلٍ، عَنِ ابْنِ شِهَابٍ، عَنْ عُرْوَةَ، عَنْ عَائِشَةَ، أَنَّ فَاطِمَةَ ـ عَلَيْهَا السَّلاَمُ ـ بِنْتَ النَّبِيِّ صلى الله عليه وسلم أَرْسَلَتْ إِلَى أَبِي بَكْرٍ تَسْأَلُهُ مِيرَاثَهَا مِنْ رَسُولِ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم مِمَّا أَفَاءَ اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ بِالْمَدِينَةِ وَفَدَكَ، وَمَا بَقِيَ مِنْ خُمُسِ خَيْبَرَ، فَقَالَ أَبُو بَكْرٍ إِنَّ رَسُولَ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم قَالَ ‏ "‏ لاَ نُورَثُ، مَا تَرَكْنَا صَدَقَةٌ، إِنَّمَا يَأْكُلُ آلُ مُحَمَّدٍ صلى الله عليه وسلم فِي هَذَا الْمَالِ ‏"‏‏.‏ وَإِنِّي وَاللَّهِ لاَ أُغَيِّرُ شَيْئًا مِنْ صَدَقَةِ رَسُولِ اللَّهِ صلى ا
walaikum assalaam, observe end of hadith after all what happend in end ! 

Farid

Re: Did Ali hate Omar ? Sahih Bukhari
« Reply #2 on: September 18, 2015, 07:13:41 PM »
Quote
Ali sent someone to Abu Bakr saying, "Come to us, but let nobody come with you," as he disliked that `Umar should come,


The most that can be said is that he finds Omar to be harsh and dry. Nothing here suggests that he hated him.

Husayn

Re: Did Ali hate Omar ? Sahih Bukhari
« Reply #3 on: September 19, 2015, 12:32:58 AM »
If I've gotten into some trouble I don't like my father or uncles coming to me - not because I hate them, but because they can be very mean when they're angry.
إن يتبعون إلا الظن وما تهوى الأنفس

Rationalist

Re: Did Ali hate Omar ? Sahih Bukhari
« Reply #4 on: September 19, 2015, 04:07:40 AM »
Omar was harsher and difficult to convince. Whereas Abi Bakr was softer, and would easily come to agreements. Recall Umar was also harsher against Muawiyah which Ali admired and pointed it to Uthman when Uthman was ruling.

Re: Did Ali hate Omar ? Sahih Bukhari
« Reply #5 on: September 19, 2015, 01:48:24 PM »
Omar was harsher and difficult to convince. Whereas Abi Bakr was softer, and would easily come to agreements. Recall Umar was also harsher against Muawiyah which Ali admired and pointed it to Uthman when Uthman was ruling.

Optimus Prime

Re: Did Ali hate Omar ? Sahih Bukhari
« Reply #6 on: September 20, 2015, 12:39:58 AM »
Omar was harsher and difficult to convince. Whereas Abi Bakr was softer, and would easily come to agreements. Recall Umar was also harsher against Muawiyah which Ali admired and pointed it to Uthman when Uthman was ruling.

Do you have a reference for this?

al-kulayni

Re: Did Ali hate Omar ? Sahih Bukhari
« Reply #7 on: September 20, 2015, 11:36:14 AM »
Quote
Ali sent someone to Abu Bakr saying, "Come to us, but let nobody come with you," as he disliked that `Umar should come,


The most that can be said is that he finds Omar to be harsh and dry. Nothing here suggests that he hated him.

This is what i though but i was asking myself if there was a study about this part of the hadith like studies on the blue part of the hadith (idraj of Al Zuhri).

Rationalist

Re: Did Ali hate Omar ? Sahih Bukhari
« Reply #8 on: September 20, 2015, 08:41:19 PM »
Omar was harsher and difficult to convince. Whereas Abi Bakr was softer, and would easily come to agreements. Recall Umar was also harsher against Muawiyah which Ali admired and pointed it to Uthman when Uthman was ruling.

Do you have a reference for this?

Brother Hani posted this.
http://forum.twelvershia.net/sahabah-ahlulbayt/umar-%28ra%29-removes-muawiyah's-%28ra%29-pride/msg4880/#msg4880
Also this reference is in Tabari.

Rationalist

Re: Did Ali hate Omar ? Sahih Bukhari
« Reply #9 on: September 20, 2015, 08:44:10 PM »

According to al-Waqidi-—'Abdallah b. Muhammad--his father: the year 34 (6 54-5 5] certain of the Companions (Sahaba) of the Messenger of God wrote to others [as follows]: "Come, for if you desire the jihad, then the jihad is here with us." The people maligned 'Uthman and censured him in the harshest language ever used against anyone, while the Companions of the Mes- senger of God were giving their opinions and listening, and among them no one forbade or prevented this save a few indi- viduals: Zayd b. Thabit, Abit Usavd al-Sa'idi, Ka'b b. Malik, and Hassan b. Thabit. The people assembled and spoke to 'Ali b. Abi Talib, and he entered 'Uthman's presence and said, "The people stand behind me, and they have spoken to me about you. By God, I do not know what to say to you. I know nothing of which you are ignorant, nor can I point out to you any affair with which you are not well acquainted. Indeed you know what we know. We have not per- ceived something before you have, so that we must inform you of it. Nor have we gained sole knowledge of anything so that we must bring it to your attention. In no affair have we been assigned greater distinction than you. You have seen and heard the Mes- senger of God, you were one of his Companions and became a son-in—law to him. (Abu Bakr) b. Abi Quhafah was not better suited than you to act rightly, nor did (‘Umar) b. al-Khattab enjoy greater merit in any way, and indeed you had a closer blood- relationship to the Messenger of God [than either of them]. You obtained a marriage tie to the Messenger of God such as they never did, nor did they have any precedence over you. Re- member God! You are not being given your sight after you were blind, by God, nor are you being instructed after you were in ignorance. Verily the path is manifest and clear, and the signposts of true religion are standing upright. "Know, 'Uthman, that the best of God’s servants in His eyes is a just imam, one who has been guided aright and who himself gives right guidance, for he upholds accepted prescriptions and destroys rejected innovations (bid'ah ma- Q trukahj. By God, everything is clear. Sound prescriptions stand I clearly marked, as do blameworthy innovations. The worst of men in God's sight is a tyrannical imam, one who has gone astray himself and by whom others are led astray, for he destroys an accepted prescription and revives a rejected innovation. Verily, I heard the Messenger of God say, .’The Day of Resurrection will be brought by the tyrannical imam, he will have no helper and no advocate, so that he will be cast into Hell, turning about in Hell as the mill turns, and then he will plunge into the fiery flood of Hell.' I tell you to beware of God and His sudden assault and His vengeance, for His punishment is harsh and painful indeed. I tell you to beware lest you be the murdered imam of this Community. Indeed it is said that an imam will be killed in this Community, and that bloody strife will be loosed upon it until the Day of Resurrection, and its affairs will become hopelessly entangled. (God) will leave them as sects (shiycfj, and they will not see the truth due to the great height of falsehood. They will toss therein like waves and wander in confusion."
Then ‘Uthman replied, "By God, I knew that (people) would be saying what you have said. But by God, if you were in my place I would not have berated you nor left you in the lurch nor shamed you nor behaved foully. If I have favored kinsmen, filled a need, sheltered an impoverished wretch, and appointed as governors men like those whom 'Umar used to appoint, {then what have I done-wrong?] I adjure you by God, O 'Ali, do you know that al- Mughirah b. Shu‘bah is not there?" "Yes," he answered. (Uthman) said, "Do you know that 'Umar made him a gover- nor?"’ "Yes," he answered. Then ('Uthmanj said, "So why do you blame me for having appointed Ibn 'Amir, simply because of his close kinship [with me]?"

'Ali said, "I will tell you that everyone appointed by 'Umar b. al- Khattab was kept under close scrutiny by him.253 If (Umar) heard a single word concerning him he would flog him, then punish him with the utmost severity. But you do not do (that). You have been weak and easygoing with your relatives." "They are your relatives as well," answered Uthman. 'Ali said, "By my life, they are closely related to me indeed, but merit is found in others." Uthman said, "Do you know that Umar kept Mu'awiyah in of- fice throughout his entire caliphate, and I have only done the same." 'Ali answered, "I adjure you by God, do you know that Mu'awiyah was more afraid of Umar than was Umar's own slave Yarfa’?" "Yes," said (Uthman). 'Ali went on, "In fact Mu'awiyah makes decisions on issues without (consulting) you, and you know it. Thus, he says to the people. ’This is Uthman's com- mand.' You hear of this, but do not censure him."254 Then 'Ali left him, and Uthman went out on his heels. Then (Uthman) took his seat upon the pulpit and said, "To proceed: For everything there is some bane and in every situation there is some defect. The bane of this Community (ummah) and the defect in this [divinely bestowed) beneficence are the malign- . ers and slanderers who let you see what is pleasing to you and conceal what is hateful to you. They talk and talk to you. Men who resemble ostriches follow the first one to make a noise. Their favorite watering place is the one far away, they fail to quench their thirst and they get only the sediment. No leader arises, affairs have worn them out, and they possess no means of .; gain." "By God, you have surely blamed me for things like those which you accepted from Ibn al-Khattab. But he trampled you underfoot, smote you with his hand, and subdued you by his tongue, and so you submitted to him whether you liked it or not. I ( have been lenient with you. I let you tread on my shoulders while I restrained my hand and tongue, and therefore you have been insolent toward me. By God, I am stronger [than he] in kinsmen, I have allies closer at hand, I possess more supporters. It is more fitting for me [than for him] to say 'Come!’ and have [men] come to me. I have appointed over you your peers.255 I have cheerfully lavished benefits upon you. But you have attributed to me a nature that I do not possess and statements that I have not ut- tered. Restrain your tongues and your slandering and maligning of your rulers (wulat), for I have kept from you a man who would satisfy you with less than these words of mine were he the one [now] speaking to you. Nay, but which of your rights are you deprived of? By God, I have achieved no less than did my prede- cessors or those about whose [standing in the Community] you have not disagreed. There is a surplus of wealth, so why should I not do as I wish with the surplus? Why otherwise did I become imam?"

 

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