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Did any of the Sahabah partake in the Battle of Karbala?

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Did any of the Sahabah partake in the Battle of Karbala?
« on: August 27, 2020, 12:47:15 AM »
Assalamu alaikum,

I am asking for more knowledge and understanding, since a Shi'i made a post on another website. He mentioned these names with references:

Quote
1. Kathir ibn Shahab al-Harithi
He was one of the Sahaba. [Tarikh Isbahan vol.2 p.136]

He was one of the commanders of the Army of Umar ibn Sa'd.

[al-Isabah fi Tamyiz al-Sahaba vol.5 p.571]

2.Hajjar ibn Abjar al-Ijli
He was one of the companions. [al-Isabah fi Tamyiz al-Sahaba vol.2 p.167 #1957]

Ibn Ziad sent him as a commander over 1000 soldiers for killing Imam Husain.

[al-Ansab al-Ashraf vol.1 p.416]

3.Abdullah ibn Hasn al-Azdi
He was one of the Sahaba. [al-Isabah fi Tamyiz al-Sahaba vol.4 p.61 #4630]

In the battle of Karbala he called Imam Husain and said: O Husain can you see the water (of the Euphrates River) by Allah you will not drink even one drop from it until you die thirsty.

[Ansab al-Ashraf vol.1 p.417]

4.Abd-ar-Rahman ibn Abi Sabrah al-Ju'fi
He was one of the companions his original name was Uzayr and the prophet named him Abd-ar-Rahman. [al-Isti'ab vol.2 p.834 #1419]

He was appointed as commander by Umar ibn Sa'd over the tribe of Asad and they participated in the battle of Karbala fighting Imam al-Husain. [al-Kamil fit-Tarikh vol.3 p.417]

5.'Azarah ibn Qais al-Ahmasi:
He was one of the sahaba. [al-Isabah fi Tamyiz as-Sahaba vol.5 p.125 #6431]

Umar ibn Sa'd appointed 'Azarah ibn Qais al-Ahmasi as the head of the cavalry of his army.

[Ansab al-Ashraf vol.1 p.419]

He was one of those men who took the heads of the martyrs to Ibn Ziad

[Ansab al-Ashraf vol.1 p.424]

6.Abd al-Rahman ibn Abza al-Khuza’i
A Companion of the Prophet (s) who had prayed behind him. [al-Isabah vol.4 p.239]

He was present in the troops of Ibn Ziyad who fought and killed Imam al-Husain.

[Tahdhib al-Kamal vol.11 p.90 #3731]

7. Abu Abd al-Quddus Shabath b. Rib’i al-Tamimi al-Yarbu’

(I have numbered the names).

So, he quoted seven names here. I do not recognize any of them. What I want to know so that I may rebuke him, is:

1. Are any of these names mentioned a part of the Sahabah?
2. If they were Sahabah and present, how do we Sunnis interpret their presence?
3. What would be a good way of rebuking someone who is posting this to suggest that these men (he says companions) fought against Al-Husayn?

I don't know Arabic and I can't adequately research this, so I am asking for help to get better clarity and understanding.

MuslimK

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Re: Did any of the Sahabah partake in the Battle of Karbala?
« Reply #1 on: August 29, 2020, 12:34:07 PM »
Walaikum Salam,

Did the Shia provide the original Arabic text for these quotes?
در خلافت میل نیست ای بی‌خبر
میل کی آید ز بوبکر و عمر
میل اگر بودی در آن دو مقتدا
هر دو کردندی پسر را پیشوا

عطار نِیشابوری

www.Nahjul-Balagha.net | www.TwelverShia.net | www.ghadirkhumm.com

Re: Did any of the Sahabah partake in the Battle of Karbala?
« Reply #2 on: August 29, 2020, 04:55:15 PM »
Unfortunately he did not, I thought it was wholly inadequate to do that.

Quote
He also said this:

7. Abu Abd al-Quddus Shabath b. Rib’i al-Tamimi al-Yarbu’

He was a Companion of the Prophet (s) who used to be once on the side of ‘Ali b. Abi Talib, then joined the Khawarij and later was given command of the foot soldiers as part of Ibn Ziyad’s troops in Karbala fighting Imam al-Husain.

Some narrations of the Prophet (s) narrated from Shabath are recorded in:

Abu Dawud, Sunan, kitab al-‘adab, volume 4, page 315.

Al-Nasa’i, al-Sunan al-kubra’, volume 6, page 204.

But some people believe that the truth must be covered up!!!

Al-Qazali and others have said it is forbidden for the preachers and others to narrate the events regarding the killing of al-Husain and the tensions and quarrels that happened between the Sahaba because it arouses hatred and blaming of the Sahaba.

[as-Sawa'iq al-Muhriqah vol.2 p.640]

Noor-us-Sunnah

Re: Did any of the Sahabah partake in the Battle of Karbala?
« Reply #3 on: August 30, 2020, 02:37:49 AM »
Unfortunately he did not, I thought it was wholly inadequate to do that.

That Shia is a liar. Not to bee surprised, it is normal coming from a Shi'ee. Ask him to provide evidence that Shabath b. Rib’i al-Tamimi al-Yarbu’ is a Sahabi. His report in Sunan Abu Dawud(#5064) was declared weak, yet even in this weak report he is narrating from Ali(R) not Prophet(S), which again weakens this Shia claim that he was Sahabi.

He was the same person who contributed in the killing of Uthman(R) too.

Esteemed Sunni scholar Ahmad Ibn Abdullah Ibn Salih Abu al-Hassan al-`Ijli said:

Shabath ibn Rib’i from the tribe of Tamim, he was the first one who contributed in Uthman’s(ra) assassination and the first who headed up the battle of Al-Haruriya (battle of Khawarij) and contributed in Hussain ibn Ali’s(ra) killing. (Source: M’arifat Al-Thiqat of al-Ijli. Vol. 1, Pg. # 448, Person # 814.)

Likewise Ibn Hajar stated: Shabath ibn Rab’i Al-Tamimi Al-Yurbo’i Abu Abd Al-Quddous Al-Kufi… Al-Ijlli said that this was the first individual who assisted in the killing of Uthman(ra) and also participated in the killing of Hussain(r.a). (Source: Tahdeeb Al-Tahdeeb. Vol. 2, Pg. # 149.)

Infact he was deemed a Weak narrator, A Sahabi isn't considered weak narrator by Ahlus-Sunnah.

http://hadith.islam-db.com/narrators/3743/%D8%B4%D8%A8%D8%AB-%D8%A8%D9%86-%D8%B1%D8%A8%D8%B9%D9%8A

So ask that Shia liar to provide evidence. If he can't he is exposed as a liar.

Re: Did any of the Sahabah partake in the Battle of Karbala?
« Reply #4 on: August 30, 2020, 05:13:22 PM »
So ask that Shia liar to provide evidence. If he can't he is exposed as a liar.

I plan to do that akhi, I'm annoyed by this.

Re: Did any of the Sahabah partake in the Battle of Karbala?
« Reply #5 on: August 30, 2020, 05:34:21 PM »
I sent him a private message and I will update you all if there is a response, insha'Allah. Or I could call him out on the forum, I'm not sure, but we'll see what he has to say.

Re: Did any of the Sahabah partake in the Battle of Karbala?
« Reply #6 on: August 30, 2020, 05:44:57 PM »
His reply:

Quote
Insha'allah I'll check the sources and I'll send it to you and if it was a wrong data I'll correct it.

Re: Did any of the Sahabah partake in the Battle of Karbala?
« Reply #7 on: August 31, 2020, 06:28:26 AM »
This is what he sent me in response:

Quote
salam for now here is a remark from Zarkoli in his book al-A'lam about Shabath ibn Rib'i: أدرك عصر النبوة، ولحق بسجاح المتنبئة، ثم عاد إلى الإسلام he was contemporary to the prophet and he embraced Islam at that time but was deviated for a while and then again he repented and returned to Islam: https://al-maktaba.org/book/12286/2388

btw, you look suspicious because your user is a new user (1 day in reddit) and you are a Sunni and your only activity is your comment on my post in r/shia asking for providing evidence and that makes me think you've created a new user not to be identified by your primary user!!! if you want all the other documentaries about my post I expect a clarification from you, otherwise you take the hard way and use the same site (al-maktaba.org) and search the names of those sahaba in the references that I've provided.


Noor-us-Sunnah

Re: Did any of the Sahabah partake in the Battle of Karbala?
« Reply #8 on: August 31, 2020, 12:30:20 PM »
This is what he sent me in response:

No where does it say that he was a Sahabi. So this guy lied. Owais al-qarni(rah) also was a contemporary of Prophet(S) and a Muslim, but he isn't considered a Sahabi, because the definition of Sahabi is that he must have Prophet(S) in state of belief.

Re: Did any of the Sahabah partake in the Battle of Karbala?
« Reply #9 on: August 31, 2020, 05:21:25 PM »
Jazakallahu khair. I think you omitted the word "seen", you meant to say "he must have seen", right?

Noor-us-Sunnah

Re: Did any of the Sahabah partake in the Battle of Karbala?
« Reply #10 on: August 31, 2020, 05:22:53 PM »
Jazakallahu khair. I think you omitted the word "seen", you meant to say "he must have seen", right?
wa iyyakum. Yes i missed the word "met".

Re: Did any of the Sahabah partake in the Battle of Karbala?
« Reply #11 on: August 31, 2020, 05:30:36 PM »
I have sent him a response and let's see if he will correct himself, insha'Allah.

Noor-us-Sunnah

Re: Did any of the Sahabah partake in the Battle of Karbala?
« Reply #12 on: August 31, 2020, 06:26:22 PM »
I have sent him a response and let's see if he will correct himself, insha'Allah.
The problem with his post is:

1. He needs to provide evidence that a person was considered a Sahabi, just being a contemporary of Prophet(S) doesnt mean he was a Sahabi.

2. He needa to provide reliable evidence that they participated in killing of Hussain(R) or battle of Karbala. Reliable meaning it should have a reliable chain of narrators. Most of what people quote comes via Abu Mikhnaf he was a liar , so reports through him aren't accepted as reliable evidence.

Re: Did any of the Sahabah partake in the Battle of Karbala?
« Reply #13 on: August 31, 2020, 06:49:41 PM »
He said:

Quote
OK I'll send the other sources to you asap. I didn't know about this definition of Sahaba. Can you also provide a source for this definition because I've read somewhere that one of the Sunni scholars (I've forgot his name) who was doing his best to collect the names of all the Sahaba in his book has also counted in unborn children among the Sahaba.

Re: Did any of the Sahabah partake in the Battle of Karbala?
« Reply #14 on: August 31, 2020, 06:53:31 PM »
He removed this name from his list now, but there are still others name that I hope we can sort through, insha'Allah. I note what you said akhi, if we can give him a quote that explains the definition of a Sahabi that would be useful. He does need to provide evidences that they participated, I agree, I will mention this in my next message, insha'Allah.

Noor-us-Sunnah

Re: Did any of the Sahabah partake in the Battle of Karbala?
« Reply #15 on: August 31, 2020, 07:55:18 PM »
He removed this name from his list now, but there are still others name that I hope we can sort through, insha'Allah. I note what you said akhi, if we can give him a quote that explains the definition of a Sahabi that would be useful. He does need to provide evidences that they participated, I agree, I will mention this in my next message, insha'Allah.

Ibn Hajar said regarding definition of Sahabi: The most correct of what I have come across is that a Sahabi(companion of Prophet) is one who met the Prophet (saw) whilst believing in him, and died as a Muslim. So that includes the one who remained with him for a long time or a short time, and those who narrated from him and those who did not and those who saw him but did not sit with him and those who could not see him due to blindness.(Al-Isaabah of lbn Hajar (1/4-5).

Apart from definition, Scholars deemed him weak narrator isnt it a satisfactory evidence that he wasn't considered a Sahabi by Sunni Scholars?


Noor-us-Sunnah

Re: Did any of the Sahabah partake in the Battle of Karbala?
« Reply #16 on: August 31, 2020, 08:04:55 PM »
Quote
6.Abd al-Rahman ibn Abza al-Khuza’i
A Companion of the Prophet (s) who had prayed behind him. [al-Isabah vol.4 p.239]

He was present in the troops of Ibn Ziyad who fought and killed Imam al-Husain.

[Tahdhib al-Kamal vol.11 p.90 #3731]

Firstly Tahdhib al-Kamaal states that there is difference of opinion among Scholars over him being Sahabi, some Scholars comsidered him taba'ee.

Secondly, I didn't find what he said about him in tahdhib al-kamaal. See #3748,

https://al-maktaba.org/book/3722/8529#p1

I even checked #3731 didn't find anything what he said.
https://al-maktaba.org/book/3722/8492#p1

Re: Did any of the Sahabah partake in the Battle of Karbala?
« Reply #17 on: August 31, 2020, 10:39:54 PM »
Firstly Tahdhib al-Kamaal states that there is difference of opinion among Scholars over him being Sahabi, some Scholars comsidered him taba'ee.

Secondly, I didn't find what he said about him in tahdhib al-kamaal. See #3748,

https://al-maktaba.org/book/3722/8529#p1

I even checked #3731 didn't find anything what he said.
https://al-maktaba.org/book/3722/8492#p1

Thank you brother, I just checked now and he sent me this:

Quote
1 . كثير بن شهاب الحارثي

قال أبو نعيم الأصبهاني المتوفی : 430: كثير بن شهاب البجلي رأى النبي(ص)

تاريخ أصبهان ج 2 ص 136 ، ، دار النشر : دار الكتب العلمية – بيروت - 1410 هـ-1990م ، الطبعة : الأولى ، تحقيق : سيد كسروي حسن

قال ابن حجر: يقال ان له صحبة ... قلت ومما يقوي ان له صحبة ما تقدم انهم ما كانوا يؤمرون الا الصحابة وكتاب عمر اليه بهذا يدل على انه كان أميرا.

الإصابة في تمييز الصحابة ج 5 ص 571 نشر : دار الجيل – بيروت.

2 . حجار بن أبجر العجلي

حجار بن أبجر بن جابر العجلي له إدراك.

الإصابة في تمييز الصحابة ج 2 ص 167 رقم 1957 ، دار النشر : دار الجيل - بيروت

قال أحمد بن يحيى بن جابر البلاذري (المتوفى : 279هـ): وسرح ابن زياد أيضاً حصين بن تميم في الأربعة الآلاف الذين كانوا معه إلى الحسين بعد شخوص عمر بن سعد بيوم أو يومين، ووجه أيضاً إلى الحسين حجار بن أبجر العجلي في ألف.

أنساب الأشراف ج 1 ص 416

عبد الله بن حصن الأزدي
قال ابن حجر أبو الفضل العسقلاني الشافعي المتوفي: 852: عبد الله بن حصن بن سهل ذكره الطبراني في الصحابة

الإصابة في تمييز الصحابة ج 4 ص 61 رقم 4630، ، دار النشر : دار الجيل - بيروت

وناداه عبد الله بن حصن الأزدي: يا حسين ألا تنظر إلى الماء كأنه كبد السماء، والله لا تذوق منه قطرة حتى تموت عطشاً.

أنساب الأشراف ج 1 ص 417

عبدالرحمن بن أبي سبرة الجعفي
قال ابن عبد البر المتوفي 463: عبد الرحمن بن أبى سبرة الجعفى واسم أبى سبرة زيد بن مالك معدود فى الكوفيين وكان اسمه عزيرا فسماه رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم عبد الرحمن ... .

الاستيعاب ج 2 ص 834 رقم 1419، نشر : دار الجيل – بيروت.

قال ابن الأثير المتوفي: 630هـ : وجعل عمر بن سعد علي ربع أهل المدينة عبد الله بن زهير الأزدي وعلي ربع ربيعة وكندة قيس بن الأشعث بن قيس وعلي ربع مذحج وأسد عبد الرحمن بن أبي سبرة الجعفي وعلي ربع تميم وهمدان الحر بن يزيد الرياحي فشهد هؤلاء كلهم مقتل الحسين.

الكامل في التاريخ ج 3 ص 417 ، دار النشر : دار الكتب العلمية - بيروت

عزرة بن قيس الأحمسي
قال ابن حجر أبو الفضل العسقلاني الشافعي المتوفي: 852: عزرة بن قيس بن غزية الأحمسي البجلي ... وذكره بن سعد في الطبقة الأولى

الإصابة في تمييز الصحابة ج 5 ص 125 رقم 6431، نشر : دار الجيل – بيروت.

وجعل عمر بن سعد ... وعلى الخيل عزرة بن قيس الأحمسي

أنساب الأشراف ج 1 ص 419

واحتزت رؤوس القتلى فحمل إلى ابن زياد اثنان وسبعون رأساً مع شمر... وعزرة بن قيس الأحمسي من بجيلة، فقدموا بالرؤوس على ابن زياد

أنساب الأشراف ج 1 ص 424

6 - عبـد الرحمن بن أَبْـزى

له صحبة وقال أبو حاتم أدرك النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم وصلى خلفه

الإصابة - ابن حجر - ج 4 ص 239

قال المزّي: «سكن الكوفة واستُعمل عليها»، وكان ممّن حضر قتال الإمام عليه السلام بكربلاء،

تهذيب الكمال 11 / 90 رقم 3731

and I have a question that I hope you can help me with that: who are Nawasib (نواصب) according to Sunni scholars and what is their stance regarding them? what about the Khawarij?

I will tell him about Ibn Hajar's statement.

Re: Did any of the Sahabah partake in the Battle of Karbala?
« Reply #18 on: August 31, 2020, 11:18:22 PM »
Ibn Hajar said regarding definition of Sahabi: The most correct of what I have come across is that a Sahabi(companion of Prophet) is one who met the Prophet (saw) whilst believing in him, and died as a Muslim. So that includes the one who remained with him for a long time or a short time, and those who narrated from him and those who did not and those who saw him but did not sit with him and those who could not see him due to blindness.(Al-Isaabah of lbn Hajar (1/4-5).

Apart from definition, Scholars deemed him weak narrator isnt it a satisfactory evidence that he wasn't considered a Sahabi by Sunni Scholars?

He had this to say in response:

Quote
At the beginning I didn't check why they graded his narration as weak and thought maybe he had a flaw in his memory (Dhabt) or because once he was deviated from Islam. Anyways only for this one (Shabath) I relied on an article which turned out to be problematic but about the rest of them I am sure and you can see the Arabic texts for yourself.

What about Nawasib and Khawarij? Their definition and whether grade in terms of authenticity?

Noor-us-Sunnah

Re: Did any of the Sahabah partake in the Battle of Karbala?
« Reply #19 on: August 31, 2020, 11:43:11 PM »
Thank you brother, I just checked now and he sent me this:

I will tell him about Ibn Hajar's statement.

Brother first he said: and use the same site (al-maktaba.org) and search the names of those sahaba in the references that I've provided.

I checked the same and couldn't find this statement (وكان ممّن حضر قتال الإمام عليه السلام بكربلاء،). I gave him the link of the book he is quoting(tahdhib al-kamaal) but i cant find this statement. So ask him to provide a scan pagefrom this book or online link(even though i already gave the link in last post).

 

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