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Did any of the Sahabah partake in the Battle of Karbala?

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Re: Did any of the Sahabah partake in the Battle of Karbala?
« Reply #20 on: September 01, 2020, 12:00:13 AM »
Brother first he said: and use the same site (al-maktaba.org) and search the names of those sahaba in the references that I've provided.

I checked the same and couldn't find this statement (وكان ممّن حضر قتال الإمام عليه السلام بكربلاء،). I gave him the link of the book he is quoting(tahdhib al-kamaal) but i cant find this statement. So ask him to provide a scan pagefrom this book or online link(even though i already gave the link in last post).

Oh sorry, I see what you are saying. I am a bit confused on what to say to him, do you mind writing what I should send him?


Noor-us-Sunnah

Re: Did any of the Sahabah partake in the Battle of Karbala?
« Reply #21 on: September 01, 2020, 12:20:30 AM »
Oh sorry, I see what you are saying. I am a bit confused on what to say to him, do you mind writing what I should send him?

I can't find the red part in the mentioned quote:

قال المزّي: «سكن الكوفة واستُعمل عليها»، وكان ممّن حضر قتال الإمام عليه السلام بكربلاء،

تهذيب الكمال 11 / 90 رقم 3731

So either provide a scan page from tahdhib al-kamaal or provide online link to tahdhib al-kamaal like you did before, which has the red color portion.

MuslimK

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Re: Did any of the Sahabah partake in the Battle of Karbala?
« Reply #22 on: September 01, 2020, 01:27:19 AM »

Quote
5.'Azarah ibn Qais al-Ahmasi:
He was one of the sahaba. [al-Isabah fi Tamyiz as-Sahaba vol.5 p.125 #6431]

Umar ibn Sa'd appointed 'Azarah ibn Qais al-Ahmasi as the head of the cavalry of his army.

[Ansab al-Ashraf vol.1 p.419]

He was one of those men who took the heads of the martyrs to Ibn Ziad

[Ansab al-Ashraf vol.1 p.424]


Quote
عزرة بن قيس الأحمسي
قال ابن حجر أبو الفضل العسقلاني الشافعي المتوفي: 852: عزرة بن قيس بن غزية الأحمسي البجلي ... وذكره بن سعد في الطبقة الأولى

الإصابة في تمييز الصحابة ج 5 ص 125 رقم 6431، نشر : دار الجيل – بيروت.

وجعل عمر بن سعد ... وعلى الخيل عزرة بن قيس الأحمسي

أنساب الأشراف ج 1 ص 419

واحتزت رؤوس القتلى فحمل إلى ابن زياد اثنان وسبعون رأساً مع شمر... وعزرة بن قيس الأحمسي من بجيلة، فقدموا بالرؤوس على ابن زياد

أنساب الأشراف ج 1 ص 424


Well, I just checked al-Isaba online and nowhere it mentions "He was one of the Sahaba". It doesn't mention anything about him being a Sahabi. Even the Arabic text he provided doesn't say that.

در خلافت میل نیست ای بی‌خبر
میل کی آید ز بوبکر و عمر
میل اگر بودی در آن دو مقتدا
هر دو کردندی پسر را پیشوا

عطار نِیشابوری

www.Nahjul-Balagha.net | www.TwelverShia.net | www.ghadirkhumm.com

Re: Did any of the Sahabah partake in the Battle of Karbala?
« Reply #23 on: September 01, 2020, 02:35:10 AM »
Jazakallahu khair antuma,

I have raised both points with him. I'm very happy that I have your help. I will let you know his response, insha'Allah.

Re: Did any of the Sahabah partake in the Battle of Karbala?
« Reply #24 on: September 01, 2020, 08:04:31 AM »
I can't find the red part in the mentioned quote:

قال المزّي: «سكن الكوفة واستُعمل عليها»، وكان ممّن حضر قتال الإمام عليه السلام بكربلاء،

تهذيب الكمال 11 / 90 رقم 3731

So either provide a scan page from tahdhib al-kamaal or provide online link to tahdhib al-kamaal like you did before, which has the red color portion.

He gave this response:

Quote
here is an online version of Tahdhib al-Kamaal and you can see the biography of Abdur-Rahman ibn Abza. although some counted him a Tabi'i but it says he narrated from the prophet and Bukhari and Abu-Hatam and Dar-Qutni say he is a Sahaba. http://lib.eshia.ir/40342/16/501 http://lib.eshia.ir/40342/16/502

Also no reply to MuslimK's point in it.

Noor-us-Sunnah

Re: Did any of the Sahabah partake in the Battle of Karbala?
« Reply #25 on: September 01, 2020, 12:59:52 PM »
He gave this response:
Bro you can check there is no trace for this portion.

وكان ممّن حضر قتال الإمام عليه السلام بكربلاء

That guy is a fraud.

Re: Did any of the Sahabah partake in the Battle of Karbala?
« Reply #26 on: September 01, 2020, 04:34:51 PM »
Bro you can check there is no trace for this portion.

وكان ممّن حضر قتال الإمام عليه السلام بكربلاء

That guy is a fraud.

I asked him again where that portion is, more clearly. I'm not sure he understood the first time.

He also replied this before my message:

Quote
it seems you're not familiar with the book at-Tabaqat al-Kubra (al-Kabir) by Ibn Sa'd. he has classified the Sahaba in the first 5 Tabaqa (classes) and he has classified 'Azarah ibn Qais al-Ahmasi in the first Tabaqa as Ibn Hajar mentioned. look at here for a bit of explanation: https://ar.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D9%83%D8%AA%D8%A7%D8%A8_%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%B7%D8%A8%D9%82%D8%A7%D8%AA_%D8%A7%D9%84%D9%83%D8%A8%D9%8A%D8%B1#%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%B7%D8%A8%D9%82%D8%A9_%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%A3%D9%88%D9%84%D9%89

And:


Quote
here is another mention of this Sahaba meeting and pledging allegiance to the prophet: http://lib.efatwa.ir/40237/1/261/%D8%B9%D8%B2%D8%B1%D8%A9_%D8%A8%D9%86_%D9%82%D9%8A%D8%B3_%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%A3%D8%AD%D9%85%D8%B3%D9%8A



Noor-us-Sunnah

Re: Did any of the Sahabah partake in the Battle of Karbala?
« Reply #27 on: September 01, 2020, 05:00:09 PM »
I asked him again where that portion is, more clearly. I'm not sure he understood the first time.

He also replied this before my message:

And:
So he is dodging my question, which shows why he is a fraud.

Re: Did any of the Sahabah partake in the Battle of Karbala?
« Reply #28 on: September 01, 2020, 05:21:34 PM »
So he is dodging my question, which shows why he is a fraud.

He responded to it now:

Quote
you're right there was a problem in the reference. that part is not from Tahdhib al-Kamal rather from al-Akhbar al-Tiwal by Daynawari. you can read it here: https://al-maktaba.org/book/9760/299 however he has claimed he was there but didn't fight!!!

Noor-us-Sunnah

Re: Did any of the Sahabah partake in the Battle of Karbala?
« Reply #29 on: September 01, 2020, 06:54:21 PM »
He responded to it now:

Did you See how he is mixing things?

And he says, he didn't fight. So what's the point now?

That's why i remind you that: one needs to establish his claims with reliable reports( if its about a Sahabi).

Re: Did any of the Sahabah partake in the Battle of Karbala?
« Reply #30 on: September 01, 2020, 07:02:53 PM »
Did you See how he is mixing things?

And he says, he didn't fight. So what's the point now?

That's why i remind you that: one needs to establish his claims with reliable reports( if its about a Sahabi).

Yes, brother, so I understand this about Abd al-Rahman ibn Abza al-Khuza’i:

1. We are not sure if he was a Sahabi or a Tabi'i.
2. Why mention his name in your list when he did not fight according to your source?

I should send him that, correct?

Noor-us-Sunnah

Re: Did any of the Sahabah partake in the Battle of Karbala?
« Reply #31 on: September 01, 2020, 07:07:21 PM »
Yes, brother, so I understand this about Abd al-Rahman ibn Abza al-Khuza’i:

1. We are not sure if he was a Sahabi or a Tabi'i.
2. Why mention his name in your list when he did not fight according to your source?

I should send him that, correct?

Add that he needs to provide a reliable chain for reports about all the men he claims to be sahaba, that they fought Hussain(ra). Otherwise his research is useless and have no weight at all, esp after we pointed out the two blunders he made.

Re: Did any of the Sahabah partake in the Battle of Karbala?
« Reply #32 on: September 01, 2020, 07:10:20 PM »
Add that he needs to provide a reliable chain for reports about all the men he claims to be sahaba, that they fought Hussain(ra). Otherwise his research is useless and have no weight at all, esp after we pointed out the two blunders he made.

Done, I believe you are correct. He shouldn't post this list in the first place if he cannot provide proof.

Re: Did any of the Sahabah partake in the Battle of Karbala?
« Reply #33 on: September 01, 2020, 07:15:42 PM »
If we go back to the original list, are his references not reliable?

If I take for example:

Quote
(4) Abd-ar-Rahman ibn Abi Sabrah al-Ju'fi

He was one of the companions his original name was Uzayr and the prophet named him Abd-ar-Rahman. [al-Isti'ab vol.2 p.834 #1419]

He was appointed as commander by Umar ibn Sa'd over the tribe of Asad and they participated in the battle of Karbala fighting Imam al-Husain. [al-Kamil fit-Tarikh vol.3 p.417]

What do you think?

Noor-us-Sunnah

Re: Did any of the Sahabah partake in the Battle of Karbala?
« Reply #34 on: September 01, 2020, 08:24:27 PM »
If we go back to the original list, are his references not reliable?

If I take for example:

What do you think?

I didnt check all, i came from down. The last two turned out to be deceitful.

Giving references is one thing, and giving references of reliable reports is a different thing.

Like the one you asked about , i found this report in Tareekh Tabari and its from Abu Mikhnaf a known liar.

http://www.marqoom.org/kotob/view/tarekhAlTabary/2882

Re: Did any of the Sahabah partake in the Battle of Karbala?
« Reply #35 on: September 01, 2020, 08:26:42 PM »
I didnt check all, i came from down. The last two turned out to be deceitful.

Giving references is one thing, and giving references of reliable reports is a different thing.

Like the one you asked about , i found this report in Tareekh Tabari and its from Abu Mikhnaf a known liar.

http://www.marqoom.org/kotob/view/tarekhAlTabary/2882

Okay, I will mention this as well. Just for clarification (because I do not know Arabic) which report was from Abu Mikhnaf?

Noor-us-Sunnah

Re: Did any of the Sahabah partake in the Battle of Karbala?
« Reply #36 on: September 01, 2020, 08:33:08 PM »
Okay, I will mention this as well. Just for clarification (because I do not know Arabic) which report was from Abu Mikhnaf?

This one.

He was appointed as commander by Umar ibn Sa'd over the tribe of Asad and they participated in the battle of Karbala fighting Imam al-Husain.

Re: Did any of the Sahabah partake in the Battle of Karbala?
« Reply #37 on: September 01, 2020, 09:20:52 PM »
Okay, I have sent him that regarding Abu Mikhnaf. Meanwhile he said this in reply to my 2 points:

Quote
about Abdur-Rahman being a Sahabi I don't doubt because the most esteemed Muhaddith i.e. Bukhari has said he was a Sahabi so I easily disregard the words of others who doubted in this matter.

about him fighting against Imam Hussain (peace be upon him), if he didn't go to participate in the battle, for what other reason he went to that battle field in the middle of the desert? and what would you do if (god forbid) you were in his shoes considering they've caught you and wanted to kill you for fighting against Imam Hussain? naturally you'll deny fighting. right?

Noor-us-Sunnah

Re: Did any of the Sahabah partake in the Battle of Karbala?
« Reply #38 on: September 01, 2020, 09:40:49 PM »
Okay, I have sent him that regarding Abu Mikhnaf. Meanwhile he said this in reply to my 2 points:

The answer is quite simple had he read the books of history. But the burden of proof is on him first to prove the reliability of the report he is using. He needs to provide a reliable chain of narrators for that, then we will answer.

Re: Did any of the Sahabah partake in the Battle of Karbala?
« Reply #39 on: September 02, 2020, 06:49:10 PM »
The answer is quite simple had he read the books of history. But the burden of proof is on him first to prove the reliability of the report he is using. He needs to provide a reliable chain of narrators for that, then we will answer.

Okay, I am not sure I am going to get a response from him, since he has been active but has not responded yet.

Are you aware of any confirmed Sahabah being in Umar ibn Saad's army yourself within a reliable report?

 

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