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Did Muawiyah(ra) betray Hassan(ra)??

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demmzy15

Did Muawiyah(ra) betray Hassan(ra)??
« on: February 20, 2016, 04:49:00 PM »
Salam Alaikum Ikwaan, please did Muawiyah(ra) betray Hassan(ra) by making Yazeed the Caliph instead of Hussain(ra)?

Farid

Re: Did Muawiyah(ra) betray Hassan(ra)??
« Reply #1 on: February 20, 2016, 05:22:42 PM »
Wa alaykum alsalam wa rahmatullah,

Not at all. There are no evidences that there was a condition that Al Hussain was ever to be caliph after Mu'awiyah.

demmzy15

Re: Did Muawiyah(ra) betray Hassan(ra)??
« Reply #2 on: February 20, 2016, 05:39:21 PM »
Wa alaykum alsalam wa rahmatullah,

Not at all. There are no evidences that there was a condition that Al Hussain was ever to be caliph after Mu'awiyah.
Jazaka Allaah kayran brother, a Shia I'm having a debate with claimed this:

"* When Hassan abdicated the power for a bloodthirsty powermonger Mu'awiyah, the agreement he signed with Hassan was that power should return back to his brother Hussein after Mu'awiyah died if he himself (Hassan) is no more. Mu'awiyah betrayed this agreement and gave his evil son the mantle. Mu'awiyah reign as a Khalifah brought nothing to Islamic history but shame.

So I was wondering maybe there's any document concerning this?

Rationalist

Re: Did Muawiyah(ra) betray Hassan(ra)??
« Reply #3 on: February 20, 2016, 10:40:56 PM »
Most evidence against Muawiyah is considered weak, and the reason is he managed to subdue his opponents as he became the King of the Ummah. As a result, we don't have many surviving narrators to tell us about the other side.

Farid

Re: Did Muawiyah(ra) betray Hassan(ra)??
« Reply #4 on: February 20, 2016, 10:42:58 PM »
If the Shia that is debating can't provide a source, then it is his problem.

demmzy15

Re: Did Muawiyah(ra) betray Hassan(ra)??
« Reply #5 on: February 21, 2016, 08:37:25 PM »
Salam Alaikum Ikwaan, the Shia claimed that the izza of the hadith of the 12 caliph is that Allaah would make islam prevail over other religions. He stated this:

# From Ismail, Ishaq, Yunus, Lut, Yaqub, Yusuf, Bilyamin, to Musa, Harun, Dawud, Sulaiman Zakariyah, Yahya, Isa. These are few I was able to mention from the Ahli Ibrahim. Why was it that ONLY the bold (Dawud and Sulaiman) possessed Great Kingdom and the rest were not yet Allah says He has given them (Ahli Ibrahim - Ibrahim progeny/offspring) Great Kingdom? Should we render null and void the Offspring-ship, the Imamah-ship of all these Prophets that were not able to rule with Kingdom not to mention Grand Kingdom?

# Shia pride so much in "Hadith Salat": 'O Allah! Bless Muhammad and Ahli Muhammad in exactly the same manner You have blessed Ibrahim and Ahli Ibrahim '. In this hadith, according to Quran, following were bestowed to Ibrahim offspring:

* Imamah over mankind

* Istafa (Preference/Chosen) over mankind

* Divine book, Prophethood, Hikma (wisdom), Great Kingdom

# Again, Only Dawud and Sulaiman ruled by great kingdom. Apart from Prophethood which ended with Muhammad, Ahli Muhammad showed similar characteristics in all. Only Ali and al-Mahdi ruled (will rule) by Great Kingdom.

Lastly, Shia sincerely believed that whether an Imam/Khalifah appointed by Allah and His Prophet was recognized or not, whether accepted or not, their presence which brings Lutf (grace) is enough for the preservation and domination of Islam till Qiyamat.

Allah has promised Islam to prevail and dominate over ALL religion in different places of the Quran. This ability of it to stand till Qiyamat is its "Izza".


Farid Rationalist
« Last Edit: February 21, 2016, 08:38:56 PM by demmzy15 »

Farid

Re: Did Muawiyah(ra) betray Hassan(ra)??
« Reply #6 on: February 21, 2016, 09:44:49 PM »
^ This is false. Shias do not believe we are in a state of "izza". They believe the opposite, a state of "thila" (humiliation).

How can they have "izza" when they believe that the Prophet peace be upon him couldn't write Ali's name in his will? How is it "izza" when Ali couldn't rule except while being in taqiyyah? How is giving the rule to Mu'awiyah "izza"? How is Al Hussain being killed "izza"?

Whoever said this is either a liar or doesn't know basic Arabic.

YET, if Shias want to believe that Islam existing is "izza", then ask them: Was the time of Yazeed "izza"?!

al-kulayni

Re: Did Muawiyah(ra) betray Hassan(ra)??
« Reply #7 on: February 22, 2016, 12:43:59 AM »
How they can have Izza when their 12th imam is hidden becaue he fear to be killed.

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Re: Did Muawiyah(ra) betray Hassan(ra)??
« Reply #8 on: February 22, 2016, 07:53:40 AM »
Muawiyah Ra did no such thing because al Hussain Ra becoming caliph wasn't a condition
They asked how many will be with the one I hate. I said 313

demmzy15

Re: Did Muawiyah(ra) betray Hassan(ra)??
« Reply #9 on: February 22, 2016, 02:04:23 PM »
Salam Alaikum Ikwaan, please what can you guys say about this narrations:

Your Definition of Sahabah @underlined.
Whilst you try to remove the "innovators and apostates" from the fold of "Sahabah", the holy Prophet himself recognized those sinners and hell bound as his "Sahabah".

# Imam Bukhari (d. 256 H):

Aḥmad b. Salih – Ibn Wahb – Yunus – Ibn Shihab – Ibn al-Musayyab, who used to narrate from the Sahabah of the Prophet, peace be upon him, that the Prophet, peace be upon him, said:

Some men from MY SAHABAH will come to my Lake-Fount and they will be driven away from it. So, I will say, “O my Lord, my Sahabah . It will be said, “You have no knowledge of what they INNOVATED after you: they turned APOSTATES

Ref: al-Jami al-Sahih al-Mukhtaṣar (Beirut: Dar Ibn Kathir; 3rd edition, 1407 H) [annotator: Dr. Mustafa Dib al-Bagha], vol. 5, p. 2407, # 6214

# Imam Muslim (d. 261 H):

Anas b. Malik: The Prophet, peace be upon him, said, “Some persons from amongst those who kept me company will meet me at the Lake-Fount. I will see them, and they will be presented to me. Then, they will be forced away from me. I will say: ‘O my Lord, my Sahabah! My Sahabah. It will be said to me: ‘You do not know what they INNOVATED after you.’”

Ref: Sahih Muslim (Beirut: Dar Iḥya al-Turath al-‘Arabi) [annotator: Muḥammad Fuad ‘Abd al-Baqi], vol. 4, p. 1800, # 2304(40)

# Imam Ahmad:

Abu Sa’id al-Khudri: The Prophet, peace be upon him, said: “So, I will say, ‘My Sahabah! My Sahabah!’ It will be said, ‘You do not know what they INNOVATED after you.’ Then I will say, ‘Woe, woe to whoever changed after me.’”

Al-Arnaut says: Ṣaḥih

Ref: Abu ‘Abd Allah Aḥmad b. Ḥanbal al-Shaybani, Musnad (Cairo: Muasassat Qurtubah) [annotator: Shu’ayb al-Arnaut], vol. 3, p. 28, # 11236

# Imam Bukhari further documents:

Abu Hurayrah, that he used to say: The Messenger of Allah, peace be upon him, said: On the Day of al-Qiyamat,a group from my Sahabah will meet me. But, they will be driven away from the Lake-Fount. So, I will say, “O my Lord! My Sahabah!” Then, He will say, “You have no knowledge of what they INNOVATED after you: they turned APOSTATES.

Ref: al-Jami al-Sahih al-Mukhtaṣar (Beirut: Dar Ibn Kathir; 3rd edition, 1407 H) [annotator: Dr. Mustafa Dib al-Bagha], vol. 5, p. 2407, # 6213

This is hadith al-hawd which put your "Sunni-Muslim" definition of Sahabah to where it belongs - in the trash can.


Farid Rationalist

Farid

Re: Did Muawiyah(ra) betray Hassan(ra)??
« Reply #10 on: February 22, 2016, 04:11:36 PM »
^ We have responded to this already.

http://twelvershia.net/2014/02/14/response-to-hadeeth-of-lake-fountain/

Please use the search feature in the main site for a quicker answer than forum replies. =)

demmzy15

Re: Did Muawiyah(ra) betray Hassan(ra)??
« Reply #11 on: February 22, 2016, 05:15:25 PM »
^^ Jazaka Allaah kayran brother, I love you for the sake of Allaah!

Farid

Re: Did Muawiyah(ra) betray Hassan(ra)??
« Reply #12 on: February 22, 2016, 07:13:06 PM »
Ahabaka alathi ahbabtani feeh

 

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