TwelverShia.net Forum

Ali (RA) and Muawiyah (RA) were cousins?

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Optimus Prime

Ali (RA) and Muawiyah (RA) were cousins?
« on: May 22, 2015, 04:16:06 PM »
Wasn't Abu Sufyan (RA) the son of Harb who was the first son of Abdul Mutalib? Thus making him a half-first cousin of the Prophet (SAW), AND Ali (RA)?

If so, then Muawiyah (RA) was a second cousin of Ali (RA)?

Farid

Re: Ali (RA) and Muawiyah (RA) were cousins?
« Reply #1 on: May 22, 2015, 05:07:58 PM »
You are thinking of Abu Sufyan bin ALHARITH bin Abdulmutalib.

I've made the same mistake before. =)

However, all the people of Quraish are related. Hashim was the brother of Abd Shams, the father of Umayyah.

Optimus Prime

Re: Ali (RA) and Muawiyah (RA) were cousins?
« Reply #2 on: May 22, 2015, 11:10:21 PM »
You are thinking of Abu Sufyan bin ALHARITH bin Abdulmutalib.

I've made the same mistake before. =)

However, all the people of Quraish are related. Hashim was the brother of Abd Shams, the father of Umayyah.

Thanks for clarification. I knew that, but some relations are closer than others.

Farid, all the ancestry details of the Quraish, what is the "primary" source that confirms all this? Ibn Ishaq?

Farid

Re: Ali (RA) and Muawiyah (RA) were cousins?
« Reply #3 on: May 23, 2015, 12:09:30 AM »
Ibn Ishaq is one of the primary sources. There are others like Al Waqidi, Ibn Al Kalbi, Al Zubair bin Bakkar, Mus'ab Al Zubairi, Al Adawi, and Musa bin Uqba.

Most of the sources for this sort of stuff are lost, but quotes from early sources can be found from late sources, often ones written in the seventh century and beyond.

Hani

Re: Ali (RA) and Muawiyah (RA) were cousins?
« Reply #4 on: May 23, 2015, 08:25:16 AM »
In the eyes of the Arabs banu Umayyah and banu Hashim are cousins related by blood, but banu al-`Abbas and banu `Ali are closer cousins for example. It's not incorrect to call them cousins.
عَلامَةُ أَهْلِ الْبِدَعِ الْوَقِيعَةُ فِي أَهْلِ الأَثَرِ. وَعَلامَةُ الْجَهْمِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُشَبِّهَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الْقَدَرِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُجَبِّرَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الزَّنَادِقَةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ الأَثَرِ حَشْوِيَّةً

Religion = simple & clear

Optimus Prime

Re: Ali (RA) and Muawiyah (RA) were cousins?
« Reply #5 on: May 23, 2015, 02:51:34 PM »
In the eyes of the Arabs banu Umayyah and banu Hashim are cousins related by blood, but banu al-`Abbas and banu `Ali are closer cousins for example. It's not incorrect to call them cousins.

Hani, sorry. I don't geddit .

Banu Abbas, and Ali were separate tribes? How were they closer cousins?

Farid

Re: Ali (RA) and Muawiyah (RA) were cousins?
« Reply #6 on: May 23, 2015, 04:21:56 PM »

Optimus Prime

Re: Ali (RA) and Muawiyah (RA) were cousins?
« Reply #7 on: May 23, 2015, 06:11:55 PM »
Brother Farid, is this accurate?

I thought the father of Abu Sufyan's (RA) was a direct descendant of Abdul Mutalib?

 

Related Topics

  Subject / Started by Replies Last post
23 Replies
7362 Views
Last post March 16, 2015, 11:45:30 PM
by Hani
20 Replies
5042 Views
Last post November 10, 2015, 11:14:17 PM
by Ibn Yahya
1 Replies
793 Views
Last post October 30, 2017, 02:19:03 AM
by heathen
5 Replies
996 Views
Last post September 14, 2019, 08:54:56 PM
by MuslimK