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Ibn Abbas

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scusemyenglish

Ibn Abbas
« on: April 17, 2016, 01:34:45 PM »
Salam Aylikoum

Acording to shias, In our hadith

Aisha represents "the clan" of Abou Bakr

Ibn Omar "the clan" of Omar

Abou Hourayra "the clan" of Muawiya.

But I don't understand why they don't consider Ibn Abbas like the representative of  the clan of Ali in our Hadith?

He was not the right arm man of Ali?

And why they dont' like him? He was not an Ahlou lBayt?

Someone can respond because I don't undestand their point of view about Ibn Abbas. One of the major narrator in our hadith.
Abou Hourayra narrated that the messenger saws said:

"“There will come to the people years
of treachery (...) the Ruwaibidhah will decide matters.”
It was said

 'Who are the Ruwaibidhah?'

The Prophet replied:

 “Vile and
ignorant men who will speak in the affairs of the people.”

Ibn Yahya

Re: Ibn Abbas
« Reply #1 on: April 17, 2016, 02:45:12 PM »
They say that ibn 'Abbas mixed truth with falsehood (even though they narrate from him in their Ahadith), they say this because he narrates a lot of Ahadith that don't support their Manhaj and also he's not one of the Sahabis that didn't apostate according to their ahadith.

scusemyenglish

Re: Ibn Abbas
« Reply #2 on: April 18, 2016, 01:47:54 PM »
But what is he doing concretelty?

He has said "Hello" to Mouawiya ?

Abou Hourayra narrated that the messenger saws said:

"“There will come to the people years
of treachery (...) the Ruwaibidhah will decide matters.”
It was said

 'Who are the Ruwaibidhah?'

The Prophet replied:

 “Vile and
ignorant men who will speak in the affairs of the people.”

Rationalist

Re: Ibn Abbas
« Reply #3 on: April 19, 2016, 03:56:11 AM »
History shows that he withdrew from Ali's camp due to a disagreement. Since 12ers believe Ali is infallible and divinely appointed they had to make takfir against Abdullah ibn Abbas. Now there are some 12er and even Zaidi who censor this area of history because it weakens their claims.

Hani

Re: Ibn Abbas
« Reply #4 on: April 19, 2016, 04:02:17 AM »
Al-Hasan had the same opinions as Ibn `Abbas from what I've seen but he couldn't leave his father's side. Similar thing with `Abdullah bin `Amr bin al-`Aas who remained by his father even though he disagreed with everything they did.
عَلامَةُ أَهْلِ الْبِدَعِ الْوَقِيعَةُ فِي أَهْلِ الأَثَرِ. وَعَلامَةُ الْجَهْمِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُشَبِّهَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الْقَدَرِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُجَبِّرَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الزَّنَادِقَةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ الأَثَرِ حَشْوِيَّةً

Religion = simple & clear

scusemyenglish

Re: Ibn Abbas
« Reply #5 on: April 19, 2016, 09:57:39 AM »
Sahit,

But He was with Ali during battle of siffin?

And what is the exact reason why he leaves Ali?

And you know the reason why Shias they don't acttack him very  much like they defame Aisha, Mouawiya, etc...?
Abou Hourayra narrated that the messenger saws said:

"“There will come to the people years
of treachery (...) the Ruwaibidhah will decide matters.”
It was said

 'Who are the Ruwaibidhah?'

The Prophet replied:

 “Vile and
ignorant men who will speak in the affairs of the people.”

scusemyenglish

Re: Ibn Abbas
« Reply #6 on: April 19, 2016, 02:15:13 PM »
sorry for my ingenous quesions.  I have discover shiism 6 month ago  :-X
Abou Hourayra narrated that the messenger saws said:

"“There will come to the people years
of treachery (...) the Ruwaibidhah will decide matters.”
It was said

 'Who are the Ruwaibidhah?'

The Prophet replied:

 “Vile and
ignorant men who will speak in the affairs of the people.”

Rationalist

Re: Ibn Abbas
« Reply #7 on: April 20, 2016, 12:36:28 AM »
Al-Hasan had the same opinions as Ibn `Abbas from what I've seen but he couldn't leave his father's side. Similar thing with `Abdullah bin `Amr bin al-`Aas who remained by his father even though he disagreed with everything they did.
No they weren't on the same opinion. Imam Ali (as) himself withdrew from the Caliphate initially due to his fear of instability. Likewise, Imam Hassan (as) did the same.
« Last Edit: April 20, 2016, 12:39:41 AM by Rationalist »

Rationalist

Re: Ibn Abbas
« Reply #8 on: April 20, 2016, 12:43:10 AM »
Sahit,

But He was with Ali during battle of siffin?

And what is the exact reason why he leaves Ali?

And you know the reason why Shias they don't acttack him very  much like they defame Aisha, Mouawiya, etc...?
They had the same goal in defeating Muawiyah. However, Muawiyah was winning people over, and now Ali's camp were feeling the frustration. In  this era, many people used to complain to Imam Ali (as) that Abdullah ibn Abbas was very harsh, and Imam Ali (as) would advise him not to be harsh. Plus he took some money from the treasury, which I believe he had good intentions for to use against Muawiyah's camp. However, Imam Ali (as) told him to return the money, and that's when Abdullah bin Abbas lost it and left Imam Ali's (as) camp. In the end, Abdullah ibn Abbas felt sidelined by Imam Ali (as) because Ali would not let him carry his own decisions.

Quote
And you know the reason why Shias they don't acttack him very  much like they defame Aisha, Mouawiya, etc...?
Ayesha and Muawiyah were never pro Ali, but Abdullah ibn Abbas was connected to the Hashimis.
Ayesha had the in law/ step family relation, and Muawiyah was an opponent of the Hashimi tribe.

The 12ers on the contrary, see it all as one group when it wasn't.
« Last Edit: April 20, 2016, 12:47:37 AM by Rationalist »

scusemyenglish

Re: Ibn Abbas
« Reply #9 on: April 20, 2016, 02:25:58 PM »
Sahit,

But He was with Ali during battle of siffin?

And what is the exact reason why he leaves Ali?

And you know the reason why Shias they don't acttack him very  much like they defame Aisha, Mouawiya, etc...?
They had the same goal in defeating Muawiyah. However, Muawiyah was winning people over, and now Ali's camp were feeling the frustration. In  this era, many people used to complain to Imam Ali (as) that Abdullah ibn Abbas was very harsh, and Imam Ali (as) would advise him not to be harsh. Plus he took some money from the treasury, which I believe he had good intentions for to use against Muawiyah's camp. However, Imam Ali (as) told him to return the money, and that's when Abdullah bin Abbas lost it and left Imam Ali's (as) camp. In the end, Abdullah ibn Abbas felt sidelined by Imam Ali (as) because Ali would not let him carry his own decisions.

Quote
And you know the reason why Shias they don't acttack him very  much like they defame Aisha, Mouawiya, etc...?
Ayesha and Muawiyah were never pro Ali, but Abdullah ibn Abbas was connected to the Hashimis.
Ayesha had the in law/ step family relation, and Muawiyah was an opponent of the Hashimi tribe.

The 12ers on the contrary, see it all as one group when it wasn't.

... It's sad for Ali

Sahit.

 And we know it's in witch books?
Abou Hourayra narrated that the messenger saws said:

"“There will come to the people years
of treachery (...) the Ruwaibidhah will decide matters.”
It was said

 'Who are the Ruwaibidhah?'

The Prophet replied:

 “Vile and
ignorant men who will speak in the affairs of the people.”

Rationalist

Re: Ibn Abbas
« Reply #10 on: April 20, 2016, 11:43:16 PM »
History of Tabari is all translated and it is very good.

scusemyenglish

Re: Ibn Abbas
« Reply #11 on: April 21, 2016, 09:52:42 AM »
History of Tabari is all translated and it is very good.

And Shia hatred Ibn Abbas since "history of Tabari"?
Abou Hourayra narrated that the messenger saws said:

"“There will come to the people years
of treachery (...) the Ruwaibidhah will decide matters.”
It was said

 'Who are the Ruwaibidhah?'

The Prophet replied:

 “Vile and
ignorant men who will speak in the affairs of the people.”

Rationalist

Re: Ibn Abbas
« Reply #12 on: April 23, 2016, 02:30:42 AM »

And Shia hatred Ibn Abbas since "history of Tabari"?

Not sure what sources they use. There was a clip where Yassir Habib cursed him. On the contrary, there is a letter in Najh Al balagha which covers this area of history.

scusemyenglish

Re: Ibn Abbas
« Reply #13 on: April 30, 2016, 10:12:31 AM »
it"s whatever.

In our books I thinks Omar was often very harsh with his "employees" (even if it's his sons) while we don't make the takfir of all this !

Honnetly i'm very disgusted to learn they make te takfir Of Ibn Abbas . It's too mutch
Abou Hourayra narrated that the messenger saws said:

"“There will come to the people years
of treachery (...) the Ruwaibidhah will decide matters.”
It was said

 'Who are the Ruwaibidhah?'

The Prophet replied:

 “Vile and
ignorant men who will speak in the affairs of the people.”

scusemyenglish

Re: Ibn Abbas
« Reply #14 on: April 30, 2016, 10:14:24 AM »
Can we say that Ibn Abbas is the diposirary of hadith from Ali or not? (because he was young during the life of the messengers saws so he couldn't learn dirrectly from Him)

Like that we have more of 1000 hadith linked to Ali in our Books
Abou Hourayra narrated that the messenger saws said:

"“There will come to the people years
of treachery (...) the Ruwaibidhah will decide matters.”
It was said

 'Who are the Ruwaibidhah?'

The Prophet replied:

 “Vile and
ignorant men who will speak in the affairs of the people.”

 

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