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Mughirah bin Syu'bah ra cursed Ali ra after his death?

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Sunni85

Mughirah bin Syu'bah ra cursed Ali ra after his death?
« on: June 20, 2015, 05:29:43 PM »
Shia said Mughirah bin Syu'bah ra curse Ali ra based on this hadith


عن زياد بن علاقة عن عمه أن المغيرة بن شعبة سب علي بن أبي طالب فقام إليه زيد بن أرقم فقال يا مغيرة ألم تعلم أن رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم نهى عن سب الأموات فلم تسب عليا وقد مات

From Ziad bin Alaqah from his uncle said Mughirah bin Syu’bah cursed  Ali bin Abi Thalib then Zaid bin Arqam stood up and said ”Yaa Mughirah, did you know that Rasulullah SAW forbid cursing dead person then why you cursed Ali after his death?

Narrated by  Al Hakim in Mustadrak As Shahihain 1/541 no 1419, Al- Hakim authenthicated this hadith by saying

هذا حديث صحيح على شرط مسلم ولم يخرجاه

This hadith is shahih on the condition of  Muslim but he did not narrate it.

Al Haitsami in Majma’ Az Zawaid 8/145  no 13028 also narrated this hadith and said

رواه الطبراني بإسنادين ورجال أحد أسانيد الطبراني ثقات

Narrated by  Thabrani with two chains and narrators of Tabrani in one of the chain are trustworthy


Hani

Re: Mughirah bin Syu'bah ra cursed Ali ra after his death?
« Reply #1 on: June 20, 2015, 07:23:31 PM »
I'll put the chains here in case Farid wants to check them out, it seems Mis`ar is the main narrator of the Hadith.

Musnad Ahmad chains:
حَدَّثَنَا مُحَمَّدُ بْنُ بِشْرٍ، حَدَّثَنَا مِسْعَرٌ، عَنِ الْحَجَّاجِ مَوْلَى بَنِي ثَعْلَبَةَ، عَنْ قُطْبَةَ بْنِ مَالِكٍ عَمِّ زِيَادِ بْنِ عِلَاقَةَ، قَالَ: نَالَ الْمُغِيرَةُ بْنُ شُعْبَةَ مِنْ عَلِيٍّ
&
حَدَّثَنَا وَكِيعٌ، حَدَّثَنَا مِسْعَرٌ، عَنْ أَبِي أَيُّوبَ مَوْلَى لِبَنِي ثَعْلَبَةَ، عَنْ قُطْبَةَ بْنِ مَالِكٍ، قَالَ: سَبَّ أَمِيرٌ مِنَ الْأُمَرَاءِ عَلِيًّا رَضِيَ اللَّهُ تَعَالَى عَنْهُ

Tabarani chains:
حَدَّثَنَا عَبْدُ اللَّهِ بْنُ أَحْمَدَ بْنِ حَنْبَلٍ، حَدَّثَنِي أَبِي، ح وَحَدَّثَنَا عُبَيْدُ بْنُ غَنَّامٍ، ثنا أَبُو بَكْرِ بْنُ أَبِي شَيْبَةَ، ح وَحَدَّثَنَا الْحُسَيْنُ بْنُ إِسْحَاقَ التُّسْتَرِيُّ، ثنا عُثْمَانُ بْنُ أَبِي شَيْبَةَ، قَالُوا: ثنا وَكِيعٌ، عَنْ مِسْعَرٍ، عَنْ أَبِي أَيُّوبَ مَوْلَى بَنِي ثَعْلَبَةَ، عَنْ قُطْبَةِ بْنِ مَالِكٍ، قَالَ: سَبَّ أَمِيرٌ مِنَ الأُمَرَاءِ عَلِيًّا
&
 حَدَّثَنَا أَبُو الشَّيْخِ مُحَمَّدُ بْنُ الْحَسَنِ الأَصْبَهَانِيُّ، وَالْقَاسِمُ بْنُ مُحَمَّدِ بْنِ زَكَرِيَّا، قَالا: ثنا مُحَمَّدٌ السَّقَطِيُّ، ثنا عَمْرُو بْنُ مُحَمَّدِ بْنِ أَبِي رَزِينٍ، ثنا شُعْبَةُ، عَنْ مِسْعَرٍ، عَنْ زِيَادِ بْنِ عِلاقَةَ، عَنْ عَمِّهِ، أَنَّ الْمُغِيرَةَ بْنَ شُعْبَةَ، قَالَ: مَرَّ عَلِيٌّ فَقَامَ إِلَيْهِ زَيْدُ بْنُ أَرْقَمَ

I already see an issue with the man that Mis`ar is narrating from.

Anyway, I comment on this assuming it's authentic. I say, it is known that the nation split into two groups, those who supported `Ali and those who supported Mu`awiyah, each group harshly criticized and abused the other. It seems al-Mughirah was on `Ali's side initially, then he leaned towards Mu`awiyah and remained on his side and naturally he'd have negative views of `Ali. Zayd reminded him of the prophetic-narration, if he listened and adhered then Allah will be pleased with him, if he didn't he will be punished for his sin unless Allah forgives him and he is merciful.
عَلامَةُ أَهْلِ الْبِدَعِ الْوَقِيعَةُ فِي أَهْلِ الأَثَرِ. وَعَلامَةُ الْجَهْمِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُشَبِّهَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الْقَدَرِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُجَبِّرَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الزَّنَادِقَةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ الأَثَرِ حَشْوِيَّةً

Religion = simple & clear

Hani

Re: Mughirah bin Syu'bah ra cursed Ali ra after his death?
« Reply #2 on: June 20, 2015, 08:29:45 PM »
This is al-Mughirah ibn Shu`bah's stance shift from Siyar al-A`lam:

قال المغيرة بن شعبة لعلي حين قتل عثمان : اقعد في بيتك ولا تدعُ إلى نفسك؛ فإنك لو كنت في جحر بمكة لم يبايعوا غيرك. وقال لعلي: إن لم تطعني في هذه الرابعة لأعتزلَنَك، ابعث إلى معاوية عهده، ثم اخلعه بعدُ. فلم يفعل، فاعتزله المغيرة باليمن. فلما شُغل علي ومعاوية فلم يبعثوا إلى الموسم أحدًا، جاء المغيرة فصلى بالناس، ودعا لمعاوية

When `Uthman was assassinated, al-Mughirah advised `Ali: "Stay in your house and do not call people directly to your leadership but rest assured that no matter where you are the people will come to you themselves and offer you their allegiance." He also told `Ali: "You must obey with regards to this fourth matter otherwise I will abandon you..."

He basically gives him advice on how to deal with Mu`awiyah and the best way to remove him from power, but `Ali ignores his advice so al-Mughirah leaves him and switches to Mu`awiyah's side later.
عَلامَةُ أَهْلِ الْبِدَعِ الْوَقِيعَةُ فِي أَهْلِ الأَثَرِ. وَعَلامَةُ الْجَهْمِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُشَبِّهَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الْقَدَرِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُجَبِّرَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الزَّنَادِقَةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ الأَثَرِ حَشْوِيَّةً

Religion = simple & clear

Sunni85

Re: Mughirah bin Syu'bah ra cursed Ali ra after his death?
« Reply #3 on: June 23, 2015, 10:05:20 AM »
So can we say Mughirah bin Syu'bah throughout his life hated Ali ra? It seems he continued to curse Ali ra infront of Said bin Zaid


ثنا محمد بن جعفر ثنا شعبة عن حصين عن هلال بن يساف عن عبد الله بن ظالم قال خطب المغيرة بن شعبة فنال من علي فخرج سعيد بن زيد فقال ألا تعجب من هذا يسب عليا رضي الله عنه أشهد على رسول الله صلى الله عليه و سلم انا كنا على حراء أو أحد فقال النبي صلى الله عليه و سلم أثبت حراء أو أحد فإنما عليك صديق أو شهيد فسمى النبي صلى الله عليه و سلم العشرة فسمى أبا بكر وعمر وعثمان وعليا وطلحة والزبير وسعدا وعبد الرحمن بن عوف وسمى نفسه سعيد

Source: Musnad Ahmad no 1638


Hani

Re: Mughirah bin Syu'bah ra cursed Ali ra after his death?
« Reply #4 on: June 23, 2015, 06:45:11 PM »
He had an issue with `Ali that began when `Ali refused to take his advice and solve the matter in some type of diplomacy/trickery. He probably blamed the entire thing on `Ali.

I still don't see any evidence that he continued verbally abusing `Ali after the Hadith of Zayd about cursing the dead.
عَلامَةُ أَهْلِ الْبِدَعِ الْوَقِيعَةُ فِي أَهْلِ الأَثَرِ. وَعَلامَةُ الْجَهْمِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُشَبِّهَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الْقَدَرِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُجَبِّرَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الزَّنَادِقَةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ الأَثَرِ حَشْوِيَّةً

Religion = simple & clear

Optimus Prime

Re: Mughirah bin Syu'bah ra cursed Ali ra after his death?
« Reply #5 on: June 24, 2015, 01:11:02 AM »
Was Mughirah bin Syu'bah a companion?

Hani

Re: Mughirah bin Syu'bah ra cursed Ali ra after his death?
« Reply #6 on: June 24, 2015, 07:57:10 PM »
It seems this is what is written:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mughira_ibn_Shu'ba
عَلامَةُ أَهْلِ الْبِدَعِ الْوَقِيعَةُ فِي أَهْلِ الأَثَرِ. وَعَلامَةُ الْجَهْمِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُشَبِّهَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الْقَدَرِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُجَبِّرَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الزَّنَادِقَةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ الأَثَرِ حَشْوِيَّةً

Religion = simple & clear

Sunni85

Re: Mughirah bin Syu'bah ra cursed Ali ra after his death?
« Reply #7 on: June 26, 2015, 04:06:05 PM »
I still don't see any evidence that he continued verbally abusing `Ali after the Hadith of Zayd about cursing the dead.

Is there any evidence showing he stopped cursing Ali r.a? We see narration in Musnad Ahmad when he curse Ali ra in front of Said bin Zaid

Hani

Re: Mughirah bin Syu'bah ra cursed Ali ra after his death?
« Reply #8 on: June 26, 2015, 07:32:13 PM »
This narration itself is evidence that he stopped, since Zayd told him to stop and gave him a reason and it never states that al-Mughirah insisted and ignored the Hadith.
عَلامَةُ أَهْلِ الْبِدَعِ الْوَقِيعَةُ فِي أَهْلِ الأَثَرِ. وَعَلامَةُ الْجَهْمِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُشَبِّهَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الْقَدَرِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُجَبِّرَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الزَّنَادِقَةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ الأَثَرِ حَشْوِيَّةً

Religion = simple & clear

Ebn Hussein

Re: Mughirah bin Syu'bah ra cursed Ali ra after his death?
« Reply #9 on: July 07, 2015, 12:06:26 AM »
Cursing Ali in times of complete fitna and chaos makes one exactly what? A kafir as Shia wants us to believe? No doubt it's an evil thing to do but:

1) Ali made no takfir on NOBODY who insulted or cursed him. He only called those people transgressors.
2) There is no authentic hadith that states insulting Ali is like insulting Rasul Allah (sallallahu 3alaihi wa sallam)

Can anyone refute point 1) and 2) with AUTHENTIC narrations?

As for Mughairah, he sinned just like other Sahabah who sinned (by drinking alcohol or doing Zinah). Sunni Muslims are moderate Muslims, neither the Sahaba nor anyone beside the Prophets are infallible and we follow the Prophet only and his Household and Sahabah in the best way possible i.e. we don't follow their mistakes.
الإمام الشافعي رحمه الله
لم أر أحداً من أهل الأهواء أشهد بالزور من الرافضة! - الخطيب في الكفاية والسوطي.

Imam Al-Shafi3i - may Allah have mercy upon him - said: "I have not seen among the heretics a people more famous for falsehood than the Rafidah." [narrated by Al-Khatib Al-Baghdadi/Al-Kifayah]

 

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