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Infallible Guidance over Fallible Guidance?

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Ibn Yahya

Infallible Guidance over Fallible Guidance?
« on: July 24, 2015, 06:10:55 AM »
The Shi'ah often like to try and make following the fallible guidance of the Sahabah as inferior in comparison to their following of the infallible Imams. Without getting into a debate on whether they were infallible or not I'd just like to make the point that actually fallible guidance is superior. Why might you ask? Well because we as Humans are fallible "to be Human is to err" as the saying goes. Now the Anbiyyah are infallible because they deliver an infallible message and they show their guidance and how to follow the teachings of Allah. But they are infallible and we haven't met them so in my view it makes logical sense for us to learn our Islam from those who do make mistakes and come into error sometimes because it is possible for us to emulate them, while it's impossible to emulate an infallible for obvious reasons so it only makes sense that we learn the Qur'an and Sunnah through the fallible men it was originally taught to. Even if we aren't even the dirt on their shoes compared to them.

Another good reason is that there isn't a single issue today that hasn't already arisen amongst the Sahabah. Terrorism, unjust Rulers, Civil War, Partisanship, foreign incursions, attacks on the honour of the prophet, divorces, disputes etc etc. These all happened in their times. Why? Because they were fallible men and even men as great as them made mistakes, some of them very big even though out of respect we won't talk about them. We can learn from them and how they dealt with these mistakes that they or others made and the trials and tribulations that arose because we can learn from that but we can't learn from the mistakes of an infallible because they can't make mistakes.

Hani

Re: Infallible Guidance over Fallible Guidance?
« Reply #1 on: July 24, 2015, 05:33:22 PM »
I don't even believe any human is infallible, prophets are only infallible in delivering the message, nor is my definition of infallibility similar to that of the common folks.
عَلامَةُ أَهْلِ الْبِدَعِ الْوَقِيعَةُ فِي أَهْلِ الأَثَرِ. وَعَلامَةُ الْجَهْمِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُشَبِّهَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الْقَدَرِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُجَبِّرَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الزَّنَادِقَةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ الأَثَرِ حَشْوِيَّةً

Religion = simple & clear

Ibn Yahya

Re: Infallible Guidance over Fallible Guidance?
« Reply #2 on: July 24, 2015, 07:33:41 PM »
I don't even believe any human is infallible, prophets are only infallible in delivering the message, nor is my definition of infallibility similar to that of the common folks.

Really? Do you mean infallible as in inability to make mistakes or immaculateness?

Hani

Re: Infallible Guidance over Fallible Guidance?
« Reply #3 on: July 27, 2015, 01:35:50 AM »
My view is that prophets are average men, they are the best of men however. This means that they do not commit great sins such as murder or adultery yet they may fall into smaller errors, they are guided by Allah who will protect them from greater sins and if they should make a mistake Allah will either correct them on the spot or at a later time through a divine text or revelation. This way they will be aware of what they did so they repent and correct their actions.
عَلامَةُ أَهْلِ الْبِدَعِ الْوَقِيعَةُ فِي أَهْلِ الأَثَرِ. وَعَلامَةُ الْجَهْمِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُشَبِّهَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الْقَدَرِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُجَبِّرَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الزَّنَادِقَةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ الأَثَرِ حَشْوِيَّةً

Religion = simple & clear

omar111

Re: Infallible Guidance over Fallible Guidance?
« Reply #4 on: July 27, 2015, 09:44:20 AM »
What is the sign of fallibility? Change. We are all humans and we all make mistakes and then we change our attitude. But a divine infallible being in unchanging,
That is why we see that Prophets never change their stance on things even if opposed. Shia Imams were not infallible because they changed their stance. First they tried jihad but after Kerbela, they changed their position and Imam Zain became a recluse and Imam Jafar declared Taqiyah as the best Jihad.They fought over succession. And Imam Raza and hasan askari joined the Abbasi court.

Ibn Yahya

Re: Infallible Guidance over Fallible Guidance?
« Reply #5 on: July 30, 2015, 04:39:27 AM »
My view is that prophets are average men, they are the best of men however. This means that they do not commit great sins such as murder or adultery yet they may fall into smaller errors, they are guided by Allah who will protect them from greater sins and if they should make a mistake Allah will either correct them on the spot or at a later time through a divine text or revelation. This way they will be aware of what they did so they repent and correct their actions.

I actually didn't know that and I went over to the fatawa of some Shuyukh and it turns out you're right

Hani

Re: Infallible Guidance over Fallible Guidance?
« Reply #6 on: July 30, 2015, 10:01:19 PM »
Oh that's interesting, I never really researched what's written in books of `Aqeedah, I just reached this conclusion from reading the Qur'an and some of the Seerah of prophets.
عَلامَةُ أَهْلِ الْبِدَعِ الْوَقِيعَةُ فِي أَهْلِ الأَثَرِ. وَعَلامَةُ الْجَهْمِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُشَبِّهَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الْقَدَرِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُجَبِّرَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الزَّنَادِقَةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ الأَثَرِ حَشْوِيَّةً

Religion = simple & clear

Ibn Yahya

Re: Infallible Guidance over Fallible Guidance?
« Reply #7 on: July 30, 2015, 10:48:07 PM »
Oh that's interesting, I never really researched what's written in books of `Aqeedah, I just reached this conclusion from reading the Qur'an and some of the Seerah of prophets.

One of the big proofs that Islam according to the Sunnah is the true religion of that if you were to take only Qur'an and authentic Ahadith you would get the same creed as Ahl as-Sunnah. That's apparent to anyone who reads Ahadith.

 

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