TwelverShia.net Forum

Prophet (saw): "Don't harm me by harming Aisha". (Sahih Bukhari)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Taha

Re: Prophet (saw): "Don't harm me by harming Aisha". (Sahih Bukhari)
« Reply #20 on: January 06, 2015, 10:21:10 AM »
@ Taha:

About the "honey hadith": Anyone who criticizes A'isha about this is not married. =p
I'm working on it, bruh.  Give me some time :P


But I'm glad I'm single.  I imagine most people can see the truth in another religion but won't change because of their family.  I have no such constraints, which makes me more open to haqq than others ;)
« Last Edit: January 06, 2015, 10:22:42 AM by Taha »

Optimus Prime

Re: Prophet (saw): "Don't harm me by harming Aisha". (Sahih Bukhari)
« Reply #21 on: January 06, 2015, 01:37:55 PM »
Quote
Ali didn't marry a single woman while Fatimah was still alive, that was a deal he made with RasulAllah (sawa) so I don't know what you're talking about.

Mr Taha, I didn't say Ali (RA) married anyone, I said he proposed to the daughter of Abu Jahal whilst Fatima (RA) was alive, and she did't like the idea and went to her father (SAW) to complain. This is clear-cut jealousy, and understandly so, which isn't and wasn't restricted to Aisha (RA). This incident is in our and your books of Hadith, I'm sure you're familiar with it or would you like me to post the source and narration to re-jig your memory if required? It's where you use the famous quote of the Prophet (SAW) out of context "Fatima is apart of me, whoever upsets her, upsets me, who upsets me has upset Allah" - to the nearest meaning. Funnily enough it was Ali (RA) who was centrally responsible for this not intentionally of course, but an ironic point that tends to slip past Shia's minds. :P Thought, I'd mention that on the side.

Quote
That doesn't mean you get to insult the other Mothers of Believers.  Wallahi if Khadijah had said about Aisha what Aisha had said about Khadijah, you would hate her and call her a rafidi.

No, we don't make takfir on any companions or family members of of the Prophet (SAW) because their contribution in bringing the deen to us overshadows any mistakes they committed during their lives, particularly those they confessed themselves. Aisha (RA) confessing her shortcomings is a testimony to her greatness.

Quote
Mothers aren't always good people to be loved.  Google "Andrea Yates" and see how terrible mothers can be ;)

True, but Aisha (RA) never had any kids and if had been blessed with any then no doubt would've loved them seeing as though they would've been the offspring of the greatest of creation. Aisha (RA) never murdered let alone drown a toddler which, clearly reveals how twisted and warped your thoughts are of this great women. No doubt if the Prophet (SAW) heard such things being said about his beloved wife he'd ordered for their tongues to be sliced, Ameen.

Quote
There is also the incident where he was supposed to be married to an important lady and Aisha tricked the bride into not going through with it.  She told the new bride something like "at the wedding, say "I seek refuge in God from you" and the Prophet will love you even more for acting shy".  And then the lady did this and the Prophet left her at once and they were not married.

Source, please?

Quote
So to conclude, Aisha insulted the most respected Mother of Believers (Khadijah), she tricked the Prophet into loving another Mother of Believers (Zaynab bint Jaysh) less, she broke up a Prophetic marriage, went to war with (and caused the murder of) the Third Caliph, and went to war with (and tried to murder but failed) the Fourth Caliph.


Maybe according to your version of history, but not ours. Uthman (RA) didn't want any bloodshed, so where did you get this from that Aisha (RA) went to war with him, and nor did she try and kill Ali (RA). She was trying to calm things down which, is why she entered the fold of the battle and as a result of Ali (RA) strangely (from your point of view), but heroically (from out of point of view) saved her. To conclude Aisha's (RA) status and character as a whole we need to review and analyse what she did outside the walls of her hujah. ;) Much of the Sunnah and seerah has come from her. We have to love her the absolute most with the rest of the family members because the Prophet (SAW) said he loves her - end of.
« Last Edit: January 06, 2015, 01:46:07 PM by Imam Ali »

Hani

Re: Prophet (saw): "Don't harm me by harming Aisha". (Sahih Bukhari)
« Reply #22 on: January 06, 2015, 03:05:44 PM »
@ Taha,


I disagree with your reading on history, every one of these topics can be discussed in great detail so don't expect me to answer such generalities.


You need to revise history from traditional Islamic historical sources or books based on those sources, then your conclusions would change completely.
عَلامَةُ أَهْلِ الْبِدَعِ الْوَقِيعَةُ فِي أَهْلِ الأَثَرِ. وَعَلامَةُ الْجَهْمِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُشَبِّهَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الْقَدَرِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُجَبِّرَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الزَّنَادِقَةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ الأَثَرِ حَشْوِيَّةً

Religion = simple & clear

Taha

Re: Prophet (saw): "Don't harm me by harming Aisha". (Sahih Bukhari)
« Reply #23 on: January 06, 2015, 03:37:09 PM »
Mr Taha, I didn't say Ali (RA) married anyone, I said he proposed to the daughter of Abu Jahal whilst Fatima (RA) was alive, and she did't like the idea and went to her father (SAW) to complain. This is clear-cut jealousy, and understandly so, which isn't and wasn't restricted to Aisha (RA). This incident is in our and your books of Hadith, I'm sure you're familiar with it or would you like me to post the source and narration to re-jig your memory if required? It's where you use the famous quote of the Prophet (SAW) out of context "Fatima is apart of me, whoever upsets her, upsets me, who upsets me has upset Allah" - to the nearest meaning. Funnily enough it was Ali (RA) who was centrally responsible for this not intentionally of course, but an ironic point that tends to slip past Shia's minds. :P Thought, I'd mention that on the side.
Heya Mr Imam Ali =]  I see what you mean now, sorry for the misunderstanding.  I didn't know Ali proposed to anyone while Fatimah was still alive (let alone the daughter of Abu Jahl ... did she become Muslim??)  You're right, that if such an incident occurred it would be clear cut jealousy.  I think the difference is that being jealous and complaining about a proposal is different than insulting one of the Mothers of Believers.  Anyways, if you have the reference, I'd love to see it.  I've honestly never heard this story before; I'm not particularly knowledgeable.

[/size]

No, we don't make takfir on any companions or family members of of the Prophet (SAW) because their contribution in bringing the deen to us overshadows any mistakes they committed during their lives, particularly those they confessed themselves. Aisha (RA) confessing her shortcomings is a testimony to her greatness.
Could you show me some references to Aisha repenting and confessing her shortcomings?  I've heard some people say this but I've never seen the evidence.  I think it would change my opinion on a lot of things if she truly did repent sincerely.

[/size]

True, but Aisha (RA) never had any kids and if had been blessed with any then no doubt would've loved them seeing as though they would've been the offspring of the greatest of creation. Aisha (RA) never murdered let alone drown a toddler which, clearly reveals how twisted and warped your thoughts are of this great women. No doubt if the Prophet (SAW) heard such things being said about his beloved wife he'd ordered for their tongues to be sliced, Ameen.
Order their tongues to be sliced?  Wasn't he (sawa) the one that said that Shaytan comes from her house?  Anyways, you're right that Aisha never murdered anybody, let alone a child.  But it was due to her actions that `Uthman was killed.

[/size]

Source, please?
Don't have one, sorry.  I read it in a book ages ago.  Hopefully someone else on the forum will know what I'm talking about and be able to provide it inshallah.

[/size]

Maybe according to your version of history, but not ours. Uthman (RA) didn't want any bloodshed, so where did you get this from that Aisha (RA) went to war with him, and nor did she try and kill Ali (RA). She was trying to calm things down which, is why she entered the fold of the battle and as a result of Ali (RA) strangely (from your point of view), but heroically (from out of point of view) saved her. To conclude Aisha's (RA) status and character as a whole we need to review and analyse what she did outside the walls of her hujah. ;) Much of the Sunnah and seerah has come from her. We have to love her the absolute most with the rest of the family members because the Prophet (SAW) said he loves her - end of.
As for `Uthman, Aisha rallied his killers and her words probably had a great influence on their decision to kill him.  Even Muhammad b. Abi Bakr (r.a) participated, but it is reported that he left `Uthman and wasn't involved in his killing (even though it was his original intention).  When it comes to `Ali, I don't know what you mean.  Does the Battle of Jamal ring a bell?  She ignored the Qur'anic injunction for Mothers of Believers to stay in their houses and she went out, rallied soldiers, and attacked `Ali and his army. 


Apologies for anything that I wrote that is unclear or misinterpreted.  I am an ignorant layman who is trying to gain knowledge.


[/size]
You need to revise history from traditional Islamic historical sources or books based on those sources, then your conclusions would change completely.[/font]

What are these sources and where can I obtain them?  Any books on Amazon, for example?
« Last Edit: January 06, 2015, 03:38:08 PM by Hani »

Hani

Re: Prophet (saw): "Don't harm me by harming Aisha". (Sahih Bukhari)
« Reply #24 on: January 06, 2015, 03:50:14 PM »

Quote
What are these sources and where can I obtain them?  Any books on Amazon, for example?


Do you know Arabic? There's loads of books if you do.


If not, then maybe there's only 2-3 useful english books, in that case you need to have access to someone who knows Arabic and can read with you Arabic history books or historical sections of Hadith books.


Based on your posts, I would say an English translation of Sallabi's books could be good for you, his books are full of quotations from traditional sources.
عَلامَةُ أَهْلِ الْبِدَعِ الْوَقِيعَةُ فِي أَهْلِ الأَثَرِ. وَعَلامَةُ الْجَهْمِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُشَبِّهَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الْقَدَرِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُجَبِّرَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الزَّنَادِقَةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ الأَثَرِ حَشْوِيَّةً

Religion = simple & clear

Taha

Re: Prophet (saw): "Don't harm me by harming Aisha". (Sahih Bukhari)
« Reply #25 on: January 06, 2015, 03:54:44 PM »

Do you know Arabic? There's loads of books if you do.
I do not, unfortunately.

[/size]

If not, then maybe there's only 2-3 useful english books, in that case you need to have access to someone who knows Arabic and can read with you Arabic history books or historical sections of Hadith books.
Please send me the names of the 2-3 useful English books.  I don't have anyone that knows arabic right now, but I'll try to find someone soon inshallah.  I'm in the middle of moving across the country so it's not too easy for me right now.

[/size]

Based on your posts, I would say an English translation of Sallabi's books could be good for you, his books are full of quotations from traditional sources.
Thanks bro.  I don't know who Sallabi is but I'll try to find out inshallah.

Optimus Prime

Re: Prophet (saw): "Don't harm me by harming Aisha". (Sahih Bukhari)
« Reply #26 on: January 06, 2015, 04:20:55 PM »
Mr Taha, I didn't say Ali (RA) married anyone, I said he proposed to the daughter of Abu Jahal whilst Fatima (RA) was alive, and she did't like the idea and went to her father (SAW) to complain. This is clear-cut jealousy, and understandly so, which isn't and wasn't restricted to Aisha (RA). This incident is in our and your books of Hadith, I'm sure you're familiar with it or would you like me to post the source and narration to re-jig your memory if required? It's where you use the famous quote of the Prophet (SAW) out of context "Fatima is apart of me, whoever upsets her, upsets me, who upsets me has upset Allah" - to the nearest meaning. Funnily enough it was Ali (RA) who was centrally responsible for this not intentionally of course, but an ironic point that tends to slip past Shia's minds. :P Thought, I'd mention that on the side.
Heya Mr Imam Ali =]  I see what you mean now, sorry for the misunderstanding.  I didn't know Ali proposed to anyone while Fatimah was still alive (let alone the daughter of Abu Jahl ... did she become Muslim??)  You're right, that if such an incident occurred it would be clear cut jealousy.  I think the difference is that being jealous and complaining about a proposal is different than insulting one of the Mothers of Believers.  Anyways, if you have the reference, I'd love to see it.  I've honestly never heard this story before; I'm not particularly knowledgeable.

[/size]

No, we don't make takfir on any companions or family members of of the Prophet (SAW) because their contribution in bringing the deen to us overshadows any mistakes they committed during their lives, particularly those they confessed themselves. Aisha (RA) confessing her shortcomings is a testimony to her greatness.
Could you show me some references to Aisha repenting and confessing her shortcomings?  I've heard some people say this but I've never seen the evidence.  I think it would change my opinion on a lot of things if she truly did repent sincerely.

[/size]

True, but Aisha (RA) never had any kids and if had been blessed with any then no doubt would've loved them seeing as though they would've been the offspring of the greatest of creation. Aisha (RA) never murdered let alone drown a toddler which, clearly reveals how twisted and warped your thoughts are of this great women. No doubt if the Prophet (SAW) heard such things being said about his beloved wife he'd ordered for their tongues to be sliced, Ameen.
Order their tongues to be sliced?  Wasn't he (sawa) the one that said that Shaytan comes from her house?  Anyways, you're right that Aisha never murdered anybody, let alone a child.  But it was due to her actions that `Uthman was killed.

[/size]

Source, please?
Don't have one, sorry.  I read it in a book ages ago.  Hopefully someone else on the forum will know what I'm talking about and be able to provide it inshallah.

[/size]

Maybe according to your version of history, but not ours. Uthman (RA) didn't want any bloodshed, so where did you get this from that Aisha (RA) went to war with him, and nor did she try and kill Ali (RA). She was trying to calm things down which, is why she entered the fold of the battle and as a result of Ali (RA) strangely (from your point of view), but heroically (from out of point of view) saved her. To conclude Aisha's (RA) status and character as a whole we need to review and analyse what she did outside the walls of her hujah. ;) Much of the Sunnah and seerah has come from her. We have to love her the absolute most with the rest of the family members because the Prophet (SAW) said he loves her - end of.
As for `Uthman, Aisha rallied his killers and her words probably had a great influence on their decision to kill him.  Even Muhammad b. Abi Bakr (r.a) participated, but it is reported that he left `Uthman and wasn't involved in his killing (even though it was his original intention).  When it comes to `Ali, I don't know what you mean.  Does the Battle of Jamal ring a bell?  She ignored the Qur'anic injunction for Mothers of Believers to stay in their houses and she went out, rallied soldiers, and attacked `Ali and his army. 


Apologies for anything that I wrote that is unclear or misinterpreted.  I am an ignorant layman who is trying to gain knowledge.


[/size]
You need to revise history from traditional Islamic historical sources or books based on those sources, then your conclusions would change completely.[/font]

What are these sources and where can I obtain them?  Any books on Amazon, for example?


Mr Taha, good to see you're being open minded about such things, Alhamdulillah. I hope it's not your internal taqiyah mode being switch to ON.  :P

Here is the narration that confirms Ali (RA) proposed to the daughter of Abu Jahal.

Pay attention who narrates it too.

Narrated 'Ali bin Al-Husain:

That when they reached Medina after returning from Yazid bin Mu'awaiya after the martyrdom of Husain bin ‘Ali (may Allah bestow His Mercy upon him), Al-Miswar bin Makhrama met him and said to him, "Do you have any need you may order me to satisfy?" ‘Ali said, "No." Al-Miswar said, Will you give me the sword of Allah’s Apostle for I am afraid that people may take it from you by force? By Allah, if you give it to me, they will never be able to take it till I die." When ‘Ali bin Abu Talib demanded the hand of the daughter of Abi Jahl to be his wife besides Fatima, I heard Allah’s Apostle on his pulpit delivering a sermon in this connection before the people, and I had then attained my age of puberty. Allah’s Apostle said, "Fatima is from me, and I am afraid she will be subjected to trials in her religion (because of jealousy)." The Prophet then mentioned one of his son-in-laws who was from the tribe of ‘Abu Shams, and he praised him as a good son-in-law, saying, "Whatever he said was the truth, and he promised me and fulfilled his promise. I do not make a legal thing illegal, nor do I make an illegal thing legal, but by Allah, the daughter of Allah's Apostle and the daughter of the enemy of Allah, (i.e. Abu Jahl) can never get together (as the wives of one man) (See Hadith No. 76, Vo. 5). (Sahih al-Bukhari, Volume 4, Book 53, Number 342)


Here are more narrations which, confirm how Aisha (RA) regretted the incident with Jamal and how Ali (RA) even prayed to Allah to forgive her.

Ibn Al-Emad in Shathrat Al-Thahab says, “When Ali arrived at Basrah, he went to Aysha and said, “May Allah forgive you.” She answered, “You too, I only wanted reformation.””[ Shatharat Al-Thahab, vol.1, p.42]

Ahmed narrated in the Chapter of “Virtues” that Thikran, the slave of Aysha, “asked for Aysha’s permission to let Ibn Abbas enter at the time of her death. Abdullah bin Abdulrahman, the son of her brother was present also. Thikran said, “Here is Ibn Abbas asking for your permission to enter. He is the best of your sons.” She said, “Let me off from Ibn Abbas and his justification and purification.” Abdullah bin Abdulrahman told her, “He is a reader of the Book of Allah, and is knowledgeable in the religion of Allah. Let him in to give a salam to you, and to say goodbye.” Aysha answered, “Let him in if you want to.” Abdullah said, “I will give him the permission.” So Ibn Abbas came in, made salam, and had a seat. He said, “O’ Mother of Beleivers, be happy. By Allah, there is nothing between the removal of pain and lie and the meeting of the beloved ones, Muhammad and his Companions except that your soul leaves your body.” Aysha said, “What else?” Ibn Abbas answered, “You were the most beloved wife to the messenger of Allah peace be upon him. He loved none but purity. Allah Almighty revealed your innocence from the seven heavens. There is no mosque on earth that does not recite the verses that proves your innocence day and night. One day your necklace was dropped, so the prophet peace be upon him got caught with the people in the house. And when they wanted to pray, they did not have water. So Allah revealed the verse of Tayamum. It was a permission for people came through you. By Allah, you are holy. She said, “Leave me O’ Ibn Abbas from this. By Allah, I wish I was forgotten.” Virtues of the Companions, by Ahmed, vol.2, #1639, with a strong attribution

Comment: Just see how Abdullah ibn Abbas (RA) a member of Ahlul Bhayt honored and praised Aisha (RA), since Aisha (ra) was on her death bed , Abdullah ibn Abbas( RA) could have said please repent for keeping hatred for Ahlul Bhayt (RA), or something like that but Abdullah ibn Abbas (RA) knew the lofty virtues of Aisha(RA) and her true love for Ahlul Bhayt (RA) that’s is why he said nothing, but reminded some of her great virtues.
 
Similar narration is present in Sahih Bukhari

Narrated Ibn Abu Mulaika: Ibn `Abbas asked permission to visit Aisha before her death, and at that time she was in a state of agony. She then said. “I am afraid that he will praise me too much.” And then it was said to her, “He is the cousin of Allah’s Apostle and one of the prominent Muslims.” Then she said, “Allow him to enter.” (When he entered) he said, “How are you?” She replied, “I am Alright if I fear (Allah).” Ibn`Abbas said, “Allah willing, you are Alright as you are the wife of Allah’s Apostle and he did not marry any virgin except you and proof of your innocence was revealed from the Heaven.” Later on Ibn Az−Zubair entered after him and `Aisha said to him, “Ibn `Abbas came to me and praised me greatly, but I wish that I was a thing forgotten and out of sight.”

Taken from her: http://youpuncturedtheark.wordpress.com/2011/03/02/part-8-nature-of-relationship-between-ahlebaytra-and-ayeshara/

The Hadith of the Prophet (SAW) saying Shaitan comes to her house is one, I've never heard of. I know of one where he points to her house and says something along the lines of devil will come from this direction (to the nearest meaning). The real meaning of this Hadith has been explained. Start a thread, and one of the brothers will clarify.

Refer to the books Hani has suggested, and you'll learn Insh'Allah your understanding of how things unravelled are skewed.

There is a verse in the Qur'an that makes exception that if war is about to be break out between 2 Muslims then it should try and be avoided. Aisha (RA) was with a mahram the entire time anyway, her nephew Abdullah ibn Zubair (RA) just in case you were not aware of this fact. :)

Hani

Re: Prophet (saw): "Don't harm me by harming Aisha". (Sahih Bukhari)
« Reply #27 on: January 06, 2015, 04:32:33 PM »

Quote
Please send me the names of the 2-3 useful English books.  I don't have anyone that knows arabic right now, but I'll try to find someone soon inshallah.  I'm in the middle of moving across the country so it's not too easy for me right now.


Then start out with Sallabi's books, these books were initially in Arabic and got translated.


A book on Abu Bakr:
https://www.kalamullah.com/Books/Abu%20Bakr%20As-Siddeeq.pdf


A book on `Umar:
vol1: https://www.kalamullah.com/Books/Umar-Ibn-Al-khattab-Volume-1.pdf
vol2: https://www.kalamullah.com/Books/Umar-Ibn-Al-khattab-Volume-2.pdf


A book on `Uthman:
https://www.kalamullah.com/Books/Exclusive/The-Biography-of-Uthman-Ibn-Affan-R-Dhun-Noorayn.pdf


A book on `Ali (missing footnotes):
vol1: http://www.archive.org/download/aliIbnAbiTalibr2Vol.Set/Ali-Ibn-Abi-Talib-Volume-1.pdf
vol2: http://www.archive.org/download/aliIbnAbiTalibr2Vol.Set/Ali-Ibn-Abi-Talib-Volume-2.pdf


As for the matter of Ifk, I think it probably would be discussed somewhere in his book on the Prophet (saw) which is three volumes:
https://www.kalamullah.com/Books/Noble%20Life%20of%20The%20Prophet.pdf







عَلامَةُ أَهْلِ الْبِدَعِ الْوَقِيعَةُ فِي أَهْلِ الأَثَرِ. وَعَلامَةُ الْجَهْمِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُشَبِّهَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الْقَدَرِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُجَبِّرَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الزَّنَادِقَةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ الأَثَرِ حَشْوِيَّةً

Religion = simple & clear

Taha

Re: Prophet (saw): "Don't harm me by harming Aisha". (Sahih Bukhari)
« Reply #28 on: January 09, 2015, 04:13:13 AM »
I am going to break up your post so that it is easier to respond to.



Mr Taha, good to see you're being open minded about such things, Alhamdulillah. I hope it's not your internal taqiyah mode being switch to ON.  :P 

Internal taqiyyah mode?  I didn't realize I had such a thing.  I reject the usage of so-called Taqiyyah unless it is used in the original sense of the word, which is to protect human life and property by hiding one's religion.  (Example: I can lie and say I'm a Sunni if ISIS/Da`esh comes knocking.  I can't, however, say I am a Shia and then lie about what Shi'ism is.)


Here is the narration that confirms Ali (RA) proposed to the daughter of Abu Jahal.

Pay attention who narrates it too.

Narrated 'Ali bin Al-Husain:

That when they reached Medina after returning from Yazid bin Mu'awaiya after the martyrdom of Husain bin ‘Ali (may Allah bestow His Mercy upon him), Al-Miswar bin Makhrama met him and said to him, "Do you have any need you may order me to satisfy?" ‘Ali said, "No." Al-Miswar said, Will you give me the sword of Allah’s Apostle for I am afraid that people may take it from you by force? By Allah, if you give it to me, they will never be able to take it till I die." When ‘Ali bin Abu Talib demanded the hand of the daughter of Abi Jahl to be his wife besides Fatima, I heard Allah’s Apostle on his pulpit delivering a sermon in this connection before the people, and I had then attained my age of puberty. Allah’s Apostle said, "Fatima is from me, and I am afraid she will be subjected to trials in her religion (because of jealousy)." The Prophet then mentioned one of his son-in-laws who was from the tribe of ‘Abu Shams, and he praised him as a good son-in-law, saying, "Whatever he said was the truth, and he promised me and fulfilled his promise. I do not make a legal thing illegal, nor do I make an illegal thing legal, but by Allah, the daughter of Allah's Apostle and the daughter of the enemy of Allah, (i.e. Abu Jahl) can never get together (as the wives of one man) (See Hadith No. 76, Vo. 5). (Sahih al-Bukhari, Volume 4, Book 53, Number 342)

Thank you.  It is narrated by `Ali Zayn Al Abideen, the fourth Imam.


Here are more narrations which, confirm how Aisha (RA) regretted the incident with Jamal and how Ali (RA) even prayed to Allah to forgive her.

Ibn Al-Emad in Shathrat Al-Thahab says, “When Ali arrived at Basrah, he went to Aysha and said, “May Allah forgive you.” She answered, “You too, I only wanted reformation.””[ Shatharat Al-Thahab, vol.1, p.42]

I thought that "May Allah forgive you" was how you insulted someone in Arabic :P

Also, it doesn't show that Aisha had remorse.  It shows that `Ali prayed for her forgiveness.  She turned around and did the same and tried to justify her actions.  Shias reject that `Ali should repent or be forgiven, because fighting her was not a mistake or a sin.  Rather, it is on Aisha to repent according to us.


Ahmed narrated in the Chapter of “Virtues” that Thikran, the slave of Aysha, “asked for Aysha’s permission to let Ibn Abbas enter at the time of her death. Abdullah bin Abdulrahman, the son of her brother was present also. Thikran said, “Here is Ibn Abbas asking for your permission to enter. He is the best of your sons.” She said, “Let me off from Ibn Abbas and his justification and purification.” Abdullah bin Abdulrahman told her, “He is a reader of the Book of Allah, and is knowledgeable in the religion of Allah. Let him in to give a salam to you, and to say goodbye.” Aysha answered, “Let him in if you want to.” Abdullah said, “I will give him the permission.” So Ibn Abbas came in, made salam, and had a seat. He said, “O’ Mother of Beleivers, be happy. By Allah, there is nothing between the removal of pain and lie and the meeting of the beloved ones, Muhammad and his Companions except that your soul leaves your body.” Aysha said, “What else?” Ibn Abbas answered, “You were the most beloved wife to the messenger of Allah peace be upon him. He loved none but purity. Allah Almighty revealed your innocence from the seven heavens. There is no mosque on earth that does not recite the verses that proves your innocence day and night. One day your necklace was dropped, so the prophet peace be upon him got caught with the people in the house. And when they wanted to pray, they did not have water. So Allah revealed the verse of Tayamum. It was a permission for people came through you. By Allah, you are holy. She said, “Leave me O’ Ibn Abbas from this. By Allah, I wish I was forgotten.” Virtues of the Companions, by Ahmed, vol.2, #1639, with a strong attribution

Comment: Just see how Abdullah ibn Abbas (RA) a member of Ahlul Bhayt honored and praised Aisha (RA), since Aisha (ra) was on her death bed , Abdullah ibn Abbas( RA) could have said please repent for keeping hatred for Ahlul Bhayt (RA), or something like that but Abdullah ibn Abbas (RA) knew the lofty virtues of Aisha(RA) and her true love for Ahlul Bhayt (RA) that’s is why he said nothing, but reminded some of her great virtues.

I see what you're trying to say, but I still don't quite get it.  `Abd Allah b. `Abbas respected `Aisha.  That's all this really shows.  She still doesn't show any remorse or repentance.  Personally, I would never ask someone to repent to their face, that seems kinda rude.  Also, there is a difference on how you treat someone who is alive and someone who is dead.  A person that is alive always at any moment has the opportunity to repent and make things right whereas a dead person can do no such thing.  Therefore, I wouldn't have cursed her or insulted her had she still been alive.  It is only because she died on nasb that we insult her.  (Note: this is controversial in Shi'ism.  A lot of Shias are fond of cursing people that are currently alive.  I disagree.)
 


Similar narration is present in Sahih Bukhari

Narrated Ibn Abu Mulaika: Ibn `Abbas asked permission to visit Aisha before her death, and at that time she was in a state of agony. She then said. “I am afraid that he will praise me too much.” And then it was said to her, “He is the cousin of Allah’s Apostle and one of the prominent Muslims.” Then she said, “Allow him to enter.” (When he entered) he said, “How are you?” She replied, “I am Alright if I fear (Allah).” Ibn`Abbas said, “Allah willing, you are Alright as you are the wife of Allah’s Apostle and he did not marry any virgin except you and proof of your innocence was revealed from the Heaven.” Later on Ibn Az−Zubair entered after him and `Aisha said to him, “Ibn `Abbas came to me and praised me greatly, but I wish that I was a thing forgotten and out of sight.”

Just out of curiosity, why did she wanted to be forgotten and out of sight?


The Hadith of the Prophet (SAW) saying Shaitan comes to her house is one, I've never heard of. I know of one where he points to her house and says something along the lines of devil will come from this direction (to the nearest meaning). The real meaning of this Hadith has been explained. Start a thread, and one of the brothers will clarify.

That is the hadeeth.  He pointed to the house of `Aisha and said that Shaytan will come from there (and he said it three times in a row).  I will open a thread later inshallah.


There is a verse in the Qur'an that makes exception that if war is about to be break out between 2 Muslims then it should try and be avoided. Aisha (RA) was with a mahram the entire time anyway, her nephew Abdullah ibn Zubair (RA) just in case you were not aware of this fact. :)

I didn't know she was with a mahram.  That is good to know.  Thank you.  But if we shouldn't get involved, why did both `Aisha and `Ali get involved and fight each other?  Were they both ignorant of the Qur'an? (A'udhubillah)

Taha

Re: Prophet (saw): "Don't harm me by harming Aisha". (Sahih Bukhari)
« Reply #29 on: January 09, 2015, 04:14:17 AM »
Then start out with Sallabi's books, these books were initially in Arabic and got translated.


A book on Abu Bakr:
https://www.kalamullah.com/Books/Abu%20Bakr%20As-Siddeeq.pdf


A book on `Umar:
vol1: https://www.kalamullah.com/Books/Umar-Ibn-Al-khattab-Volume-1.pdf
vol2: https://www.kalamullah.com/Books/Umar-Ibn-Al-khattab-Volume-2.pdf


A book on `Uthman:
https://www.kalamullah.com/Books/Exclusive/The-Biography-of-Uthman-Ibn-Affan-R-Dhun-Noorayn.pdf


A book on `Ali (missing footnotes):
vol1: http://www.archive.org/download/aliIbnAbiTalibr2Vol.Set/Ali-Ibn-Abi-Talib-Volume-1.pdf
vol2: http://www.archive.org/download/aliIbnAbiTalibr2Vol.Set/Ali-Ibn-Abi-Talib-Volume-2.pdf


As for the matter of Ifk, I think it probably would be discussed somewhere in his book on the Prophet (saw) which is three volumes:
https://www.kalamullah.com/Books/Noble%20Life%20of%20The%20Prophet.pdf


Thank you.  I have contacted a bookstore in my area and asked if they sell these because I prefer hard copies.  If they don't, I'll read the PDFs inshallah.

Optimus Prime

Re: Prophet (saw): "Don't harm me by harming Aisha". (Sahih Bukhari)
« Reply #30 on: January 09, 2015, 06:49:09 PM »
Then start out with Sallabi's books, these books were initially in Arabic and got translated.


A book on Abu Bakr:
https://www.kalamullah.com/Books/Abu%20Bakr%20As-Siddeeq.pdf


A book on `Umar:
vol1: https://www.kalamullah.com/Books/Umar-Ibn-Al-khattab-Volume-1.pdf
vol2: https://www.kalamullah.com/Books/Umar-Ibn-Al-khattab-Volume-2.pdf


A book on `Uthman:
https://www.kalamullah.com/Books/Exclusive/The-Biography-of-Uthman-Ibn-Affan-R-Dhun-Noorayn.pdf


A book on `Ali (missing footnotes):
vol1: http://www.archive.org/download/aliIbnAbiTalibr2Vol.Set/Ali-Ibn-Abi-Talib-Volume-1.pdf
vol2: http://www.archive.org/download/aliIbnAbiTalibr2Vol.Set/Ali-Ibn-Abi-Talib-Volume-2.pdf


As for the matter of Ifk, I think it probably would be discussed somewhere in his book on the Prophet (saw) which is three volumes:
https://www.kalamullah.com/Books/Noble%20Life%20of%20The%20Prophet.pdf


Thank you.  I have contacted a bookstore in my area and asked if they sell these because I prefer hard copies.  If they don't, I'll read the PDFs inshallah.

Insh'Allah, you'll find these most beneficial.

Optimus Prime

Re: Prophet (saw): "Don't harm me by harming Aisha". (Sahih Bukhari)
« Reply #31 on: January 09, 2015, 07:08:49 PM »
Taha,

The discussions of why Aisha and Ali (RA) went to war is an entirely seperate discussion altogether.

I think you need to read the narrations again.

In the first one Aisha (RA) makes it clear she wanted reformation. She didn't go out and to topple him just because (to you guys) Ali (RA) suggested 30 years she did commit some evil deed (astagfirullah), and thus should divorce her. The mere fact Ali (RA) is askng for her forgiveness demonstates how she was/is worthy of forgiveness because both of their intentions was sincere and mutual, likewise Aisha (RA) reciprocates. Think about that for a moment.

Regarding the second narration, you've pretty much asked a rhetorical question:

Quote
why did she wanted to be forgotten and out of sight?

Think about it. This statement infact does reveal she had remorse and regret for what happened during the Battle of Jamal What else do you think she's referring to? Do you think Abdullah ibn Abbas (RA) who is also from Ahlul Bhait (RA) would be dropping such compliments if the accusations you guys throw at her were true and genuine?



Hani

Re: Prophet (saw): "Don't harm me by harming Aisha". (Sahih Bukhari)
« Reply #32 on: January 09, 2015, 07:27:59 PM »
`Ali had worse regret, don't you remember the narration of him wishing he were dead 20 years ago.
عَلامَةُ أَهْلِ الْبِدَعِ الْوَقِيعَةُ فِي أَهْلِ الأَثَرِ. وَعَلامَةُ الْجَهْمِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُشَبِّهَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الْقَدَرِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُجَبِّرَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الزَّنَادِقَةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ الأَثَرِ حَشْوِيَّةً

Religion = simple & clear

Optimus Prime

Re: Prophet (saw): "Don't harm me by harming Aisha". (Sahih Bukhari)
« Reply #33 on: January 09, 2015, 09:08:04 PM »
`Ali had worse regret, don't you remember the narration of him wishing he were dead 20 years ago.

Might be a good idea to re-post the statement, Hani.

Optimus Prime

Re: Prophet (saw): "Don't harm me by harming Aisha". (Sahih Bukhari)
« Reply #34 on: January 09, 2015, 09:12:36 PM »
Taha, the taqiyah joke was nothing personal. I apologies if you took offence.

Taha

Re: Prophet (saw): "Don't harm me by harming Aisha". (Sahih Bukhari)
« Reply #35 on: January 09, 2015, 09:57:22 PM »

`Ali had worse regret, don't you remember the narration of him wishing he were dead 20 years ago.

I don't remember.  Please post it.


Taha, the taqiyah joke was nothing personal. I apologies if you took offence.

No worries brother :)


P.S., I'm not ignoring what you wrote, I just have nothing to say.  I can't find fault in it so it's best I say nothing rather than make a fool of myself :P

Hani

Re: Prophet (saw): "Don't harm me by harming Aisha". (Sahih Bukhari)
« Reply #36 on: January 10, 2015, 02:17:56 PM »
here


حَدَّثَنِي عُبَيْدُ اللَّهِ بْنُ عُمَرَ الْقَوَارِيرِيُّ ، نا حَمَّادُ بْنُ زَيْدٍ ، قَالَ : أَنْبَأَنَا سَعِيدُ بْنُ أَبِي عَرُوبَةَ ، عَنْ قَتَادَةَ ، عَنِ الْحَسَنِ بْنِ عَلِيٍّ رَضِيَ اللَّهُ عَنْهُ عَنْ قَيْسِ بْنِ عَبَّادٍ ، قَالَ : قَالَ عَلِيٌّ رَضِيَ اللَّهُ عَنْهُ لابْنِهِ الْحَسَنِ يَوْمَ الْجَمَلِ : " يَا حَسَنُ ، لَيْتَ أَبَاكَ مَاتَ مِنْ عِشْرِينَ سَنَةً ، قَالَ : فَقَالَ لَهُ الْحَسَنُ : يَا أَبَتِ قَدْ كُنْتُ أَنْهَاكَ عَنْ هَذَا ، قَالَ : يَا بُنَيَّ ، لَمْ أَرَ الأَمْرَ يَبْلُغُ هَذَا
عَلامَةُ أَهْلِ الْبِدَعِ الْوَقِيعَةُ فِي أَهْلِ الأَثَرِ. وَعَلامَةُ الْجَهْمِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُشَبِّهَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الْقَدَرِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُجَبِّرَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الزَّنَادِقَةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ الأَثَرِ حَشْوِيَّةً

Religion = simple & clear

muslim720

Re: Prophet (saw): "Don't harm me by harming Aisha". (Sahih Bukhari)
« Reply #37 on: July 02, 2015, 01:53:17 AM »
Dude why is everything you say a "question", I swear if I gather the number of posts you make and the number of question marks you wrote they would far exceed your posts.

Brother Ameen tried to discuss Fadak with me and that was the one thing that stood out.  I remember one post comprised of many sentences each ending with a question mark.  Maybe he is a genius.  Who knows?  :P
"Our coward ran from those in authority" - Iceman (admitting the truth regarding his 12th Imam)

 

Related Topics

  Subject / Started by Replies Last post
7 Replies
2863 Views
Last post March 10, 2020, 08:17:43 AM
by Soccer
0 Replies
749 Views
Last post May 22, 2017, 08:54:50 PM
by Link
0 Replies
588 Views
Last post October 26, 2017, 10:55:37 PM
by Link
13 Replies
1271 Views
Last post January 01, 2018, 06:45:27 AM
by Hani