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Qualities of Uthman (RA)

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Hadrami

Re: Qualities of Uthman (RA)
« Reply #100 on: March 26, 2015, 03:19:41 PM »
According to brother Hadrami there were no other good men available or there were others available but Usman was better and more worthy than the others.

Brother Hadrami's statement is there that Usman was the ONLY GOOD MAN. In other words the Prophet (pbuh) couldn't find anyone else. So where does this put the Shaikhain???

Please pinpoint where I wrote that. I know you're a rafidi & lying is 9/10 of your deen, but let's cut the lying habit in this forum will you?

Im still waiting liar liar pants on fire :D
Wheres that quote taqiyah freak?

Optimus Prime

Re: Qualities of Uthman (RA)
« Reply #101 on: March 26, 2015, 08:09:29 PM »
Defeated??? LOL! Like you said, let the people be the judge of that. Yes, talk about the virtues and merits of Usman or any other companion and just stick to that. But if you do go in to superiority again then make sure you get your facts right next time.

Carry on!

Let me explain why and how you've been defeated, Ameen.

I never argued against your point, but I agreed with you the entire time. It was you who was insisting that I claimed that marriage to two daughters of a Prophet surpasses everyone else walking the face of the Earth. You mis-understood when reading a certain response to a post of brother Hadrami. I even confessed it was not clear on my part, and clarified my position that his marriage alone to two daughters does not elevate his status higher than Ali (RA) or anyone else. I also said if Hadrami thinks otherwise then that's his opinion, and you need to take it up with him. This point has been repeated countless times. Shall, I try explaining this in Urdu? Maybe then it'll sink in if you're genuinely lost.

So, why're you not letting the matter rest when referencing that I claimed no one made such a statement? I was speaking for myself much of the time not everyone else who've contributed to the thread.

The main purpose of this thread has served it's purpose, and shall continue in the coming weeks.

Now, front up to brother Hadrami's questions regarding Umar's (RA) marriage to Umm Khumtum bint Ali (RA) if you dare. ;)
« Last Edit: March 26, 2015, 08:13:35 PM by Imam Ali »

Ameen

Re: Qualities of Uthman (RA)
« Reply #102 on: March 26, 2015, 09:33:53 PM »
Ameen, then I wonder why we have 5 pages for this simple topic.

It seems to me that you're having difficulty understanding. Now pay attention,

Usman wasn't married to one of the Prophet's (pbuh) daughters, but in fact to two of them. This is a virtue towards privilege and an honour, not a merit towards superiority and highness.

Usman was a good man, in fact a very good man. This is why the Prophet (pbuh) married not one but two of his daughters to him. This is not a seal of approval to remain good for ever.

Usman was of a companion of the Prophet (pbuh) and a good man. This is not proof that he became a great Khalifa and got absolutely everything right and in order.

You are using his companionship, his relation to the Prophet (pbuh) as son in law and having the privilege to be married to two of the Prophte's (pbuh) daughters, as some kind of evidence to prove that he remained good and carried on to become a great Khalif, with no set backs and without getting anything wrong and out of control.

Gentlemen the man was a companion and son in law to the Prophet (pbuh), but this doesn't make him a saint or he didn't become a saint because of this privilege. Brothers, get use to reality and facts. You've been taught things which are not true, right from the very start and it's obvious you've become adapted to them.

Ameen

Re: Qualities of Uthman (RA)
« Reply #103 on: March 26, 2015, 09:49:45 PM »
Update on the narrations where the Prophet (SAW) has been reported to have married more daughters to Uthman (RA) are weak. Here is the response:

Question

What is the source and grading of the narration where Nabi (sallallahu ‘alayhi wa sallam) is reported to have said if he had anymore daughters he would’ve given them all to Sayyiduna ‘Uthman (radiyallahu ‘anhu)


Answer

There are various different versions of this narration, Among them are the following:

1) Rasulullah (sallallahu ‘alayhi wa sallam) said:

Marry ‘Uthman, If I had a third daughter I would have married him (to
her) and I have only married him to my daughters through divine revelation (wahy).

(Al Mu’jamul Kabir, Hadith: 490, -vol. 11-)



2) Sayyiduna ‘Uthman (radiyallahu ‘anhu) said to Sayyiduna ‘Abdullah Ibn ‘Abbas (radiyallahu ‘anhuma) that Rasulullah (sallallahu ‘alayhi wa
sallam) said to me when he got me married to his second daughter, “If I had ten (daughters), I would have married them to you one at a time, for I am pleased with you”.

(Al Mu’jamul Awsat, Hadith: 6112)



3) Sayyiduna Abu Hurayrah (radiyallahu ‘anhu) reports that Nabi (sallallahu ‘alayhi wa sallam) said:

…”If I had ten daughters, I would have married them to ‘Uthman and I only got him married to my daughters through divine revelation (wahy)”

(Al Mu’jamul Kabir, Hadith: 1063 -vol. 15-)



4) Nabi (sallallahu ‘alayhi wa sallam) said:

If I had forty daughters, I would have married them one after the other to ‘Uthman.

(Tarikh Ibn ‘Asakir, vol. 39 pg. 43)



The above narrations although weak, support each other sufficiently.

(Refer: Majma’uz Zawaid, vol. 5 pg. 264 and Al Bidayah Wan Nihayah of Hafiz Ibn Kathir, vol. 7 pg. 377)



And Allah Ta’ala knows best



Answered by: Moulana Suhail Motala



Approved by: Moulana Muhammad Abasoomar


Well there you go! This is absolute and clear evidence that Usman was, is and will remain greater than the Shaikhain. This openly tells you who was the better man and who was number one in the Prophet's (pbuh) eyes. Was it Abu Bakar??? No. Was it Umar??? No. It can't be Ali because according to you he was number four. So it was most definitely Usman.

Why didn't the Prophet (pbuh) consider Abu Bakar and or Umar worthy for his daughters??? You mentioned that the marriage of Usman to the Prophet's (pbuh) daughters was according to divine revelation then, this order is from Allah and those marriages took place because of Allah's will. Yes??? If yes then you have to accept that Usman was far better and greater than the Shaikhain.

This didn't settle well with the Shaikhain. They were unhappy and disappointed over this. Unhappiness and disappointment causes resentment and this brings jealousy and hatred to a certain degree. The Shaikhain were jealous of Usman and did hold a grudge against him, over this.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2015, 09:51:59 PM by Ameen »

Ameen

Re: Qualities of Uthman (RA)
« Reply #104 on: March 26, 2015, 09:55:41 PM »
According to brother Hadrami there were no other good men available or there were others available but Usman was better and more worthy than the others.

Brother Hadrami's statement is there that Usman was the ONLY GOOD MAN. In other words the Prophet (pbuh) couldn't find anyone else. So where does this put the Shaikhain???

Please pinpoint where I wrote that. I know you're a rafidi & lying is 9/10 of your deen, but let's cut the lying habit in this forum will you?

Im still waiting liar liar pants on fire :D
Wheres that quote taqiyah freak?

You sound like someone who's just been knocked out cold. Come on, you can do better than that. You're a grown man. This doesn't suit you.

Hani

Re: Qualities of Uthman (RA)
« Reply #105 on: March 26, 2015, 10:10:27 PM »
I want to be honest and say this discussion is getting really stupid, I can't figure out what is being discussed anymore, what's the exact topic? Does it need so many pages to prove that the Prophet (saw) thought highly of `Uthman?
عَلامَةُ أَهْلِ الْبِدَعِ الْوَقِيعَةُ فِي أَهْلِ الأَثَرِ. وَعَلامَةُ الْجَهْمِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُشَبِّهَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الْقَدَرِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُجَبِّرَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الزَّنَادِقَةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ الأَثَرِ حَشْوِيَّةً

Religion = simple & clear

Optimus Prime

Re: Qualities of Uthman (RA)
« Reply #106 on: March 26, 2015, 10:13:00 PM »
Ameen, then I wonder why we have 5 pages for this simple topic.

It seems to me that you're having difficulty understanding. Now pay attention,

Usman wasn't married to one of the Prophet's (pbuh) daughters, but in fact to two of them. This is a virtue towards privilege and an honour, not a merit towards superiority and highness.

Usman was a good man, in fact a very good man. This is why the Prophet (pbuh) married not one but two of his daughters to him. This is not a seal of approval to remain good for ever.

Usman was of a companion of the Prophet (pbuh) and a good man. This is not proof that he became a great Khalifa and got absolutely everything right and in order.

You are using his companionship, his relation to the Prophet (pbuh) as son in law and having the privilege to be married to two of the Prophte's (pbuh) daughters, as some kind of evidence to prove that he remained good and carried on to become a great Khalif, with no set backs and without getting anything wrong and out of control.

Gentlemen the man was a companion and son in law to the Prophet (pbuh), but this doesn't make him a saint or he didn't become a saint because of this privilege. Brothers, get use to reality and facts. You've been taught things which are not true, right from the very start and it's obvious you've become adapted to them.

The authentic narrations by the Prophet (SAW) confirm otherwise and his words carry more weight than yours - end of. :)

Optimus Prime

Re: Qualities of Uthman (RA)
« Reply #107 on: March 26, 2015, 10:13:13 PM »
Update on the narrations where the Prophet (SAW) has been reported to have married more daughters to Uthman (RA) are weak. Here is the response:

Question

What is the source and grading of the narration where Nabi (sallallahu ‘alayhi wa sallam) is reported to have said if he had anymore daughters he would’ve given them all to Sayyiduna ‘Uthman (radiyallahu ‘anhu)


Answer

There are various different versions of this narration, Among them are the following:

1) Rasulullah (sallallahu ‘alayhi wa sallam) said:

Marry ‘Uthman, If I had a third daughter I would have married him (to
her) and I have only married him to my daughters through divine revelation (wahy).

(Al Mu’jamul Kabir, Hadith: 490, -vol. 11-)



2) Sayyiduna ‘Uthman (radiyallahu ‘anhu) said to Sayyiduna ‘Abdullah Ibn ‘Abbas (radiyallahu ‘anhuma) that Rasulullah (sallallahu ‘alayhi wa
sallam) said to me when he got me married to his second daughter, “If I had ten (daughters), I would have married them to you one at a time, for I am pleased with you”.

(Al Mu’jamul Awsat, Hadith: 6112)



3) Sayyiduna Abu Hurayrah (radiyallahu ‘anhu) reports that Nabi (sallallahu ‘alayhi wa sallam) said:

…”If I had ten daughters, I would have married them to ‘Uthman and I only got him married to my daughters through divine revelation (wahy)”

(Al Mu’jamul Kabir, Hadith: 1063 -vol. 15-)



4) Nabi (sallallahu ‘alayhi wa sallam) said:

If I had forty daughters, I would have married them one after the other to ‘Uthman.

(Tarikh Ibn ‘Asakir, vol. 39 pg. 43)



The above narrations although weak, support each other sufficiently.

(Refer: Majma’uz Zawaid, vol. 5 pg. 264 and Al Bidayah Wan Nihayah of Hafiz Ibn Kathir, vol. 7 pg. 377)



And Allah Ta’ala knows best



Answered by: Moulana Suhail Motala



Approved by: Moulana Muhammad Abasoomar


Well there you go! This is absolute and clear evidence that Usman was, is and will remain greater than the Shaikhain. This openly tells you who was the better man and who was number one in the Prophet's (pbuh) eyes. Was it Abu Bakar??? No. Was it Umar??? No. It can't be Ali because according to you he was number four. So it was most definitely Usman.

Why didn't the Prophet (pbuh) consider Abu Bakar and or Umar worthy for his daughters??? You mentioned that the marriage of Usman to the Prophet's (pbuh) daughters was according to divine revelation then, this order is from Allah and those marriages took place because of Allah's will. Yes??? If yes then you have to accept that Usman was far better and greater than the Shaikhain.

This didn't settle well with the Shaikhain. They were unhappy and disappointed over this. Unhappiness and disappointment causes resentment and this brings jealousy and hatred to a certain degree. The Shaikhain were jealous of Usman and did hold a grudge against him, over this.

Ameen, you've seriously lost the plot. The scholar is not even referring to superiority, but is grading the narrations. That's it.

I'm going to ask politely you refrain from posting this thread because you're going on about the same thing that's been addressed again, again and again.

Enough is enough.

In summary, Ali (RA) or any other companion never had the privilege of marrying two daughters of a Prophet = fact. Just like no other companion had the privilege of being born in the Kab'bah, but that on it's own does not make him superior to anyone else - naw' what I mean?

Superiority of one over the other is down to all other forms of virtues that the Prophet (SAW) confirmed and praised.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2015, 10:15:40 PM by Imam Ali »

Optimus Prime

Re: Qualities of Uthman (RA)
« Reply #108 on: March 26, 2015, 10:17:45 PM »
I want to be honest and say this discussion is getting really stupid, I can't figure out what is being discussed anymore, what's the exact topic? Does it need so many pages to prove that the Prophet (saw) thought highly of `Uthman?

Hani, you're right. This thread is getting a little tedious, but no thanks to Ameen's endless drivel of the same thing.

From now, I'll be posting narrations to confirm Uthman's (RA) virtues.

Insh'Allah.

Ameen

Re: Qualities of Uthman (RA)
« Reply #109 on: March 26, 2015, 11:37:39 PM »
Update on the narrations where the Prophet (SAW) has been reported to have married more daughters to Uthman (RA) are weak. Here is the response:

Question

What is the source and grading of the narration where Nabi (sallallahu ‘alayhi wa sallam) is reported to have said if he had anymore daughters he would’ve given them all to Sayyiduna ‘Uthman (radiyallahu ‘anhu)


Answer

There are various different versions of this narration, Among them are the following:

1) Rasulullah (sallallahu ‘alayhi wa sallam) said:

Marry ‘Uthman, If I had a third daughter I would have married him (to
her) and I have only married him to my daughters through divine revelation (wahy).

(Al Mu’jamul Kabir, Hadith: 490, -vol. 11-)



2) Sayyiduna ‘Uthman (radiyallahu ‘anhu) said to Sayyiduna ‘Abdullah Ibn ‘Abbas (radiyallahu ‘anhuma) that Rasulullah (sallallahu ‘alayhi wa
sallam) said to me when he got me married to his second daughter, “If I had ten (daughters), I would have married them to you one at a time, for I am pleased with you”.

(Al Mu’jamul Awsat, Hadith: 6112)



3) Sayyiduna Abu Hurayrah (radiyallahu ‘anhu) reports that Nabi (sallallahu ‘alayhi wa sallam) said:

…”If I had ten daughters, I would have married them to ‘Uthman and I only got him married to my daughters through divine revelation (wahy)”

(Al Mu’jamul Kabir, Hadith: 1063 -vol. 15-)



4) Nabi (sallallahu ‘alayhi wa sallam) said:

If I had forty daughters, I would have married them one after the other to ‘Uthman.

(Tarikh Ibn ‘Asakir, vol. 39 pg. 43)



The above narrations although weak, support each other sufficiently.

(Refer: Majma’uz Zawaid, vol. 5 pg. 264 and Al Bidayah Wan Nihayah of Hafiz Ibn Kathir, vol. 7 pg. 377)



And Allah Ta’ala knows best



Answered by: Moulana Suhail Motala



Approved by: Moulana Muhammad Abasoomar


Well there you go! This is absolute and clear evidence that Usman was, is and will remain greater than the Shaikhain. This openly tells you who was the better man and who was number one in the Prophet's (pbuh) eyes. Was it Abu Bakar??? No. Was it Umar??? No. It can't be Ali because according to you he was number four. So it was most definitely Usman.

Why didn't the Prophet (pbuh) consider Abu Bakar and or Umar worthy for his daughters??? You mentioned that the marriage of Usman to the Prophet's (pbuh) daughters was according to divine revelation then, this order is from Allah and those marriages took place because of Allah's will. Yes??? If yes then you have to accept that Usman was far better and greater than the Shaikhain.

This didn't settle well with the Shaikhain. They were unhappy and disappointed over this. Unhappiness and disappointment causes resentment and this brings jealousy and hatred to a certain degree. The Shaikhain were jealous of Usman and did hold a grudge against him, over this.

Ameen, you've seriously lost the plot. The scholar is not even referring to superiority, but is grading the narrations. That's it.

I'm going to ask politely you refrain from posting this thread because you're going on about the same thing that's been addressed again, again and again.

Enough is enough.

In summary, Ali (RA) or any other companion never had the privilege of marrying two daughters of a Prophet = fact. Just like no other companion had the privilege of being born in the Kab'bah, but that on it's own does not make him superior to anyone else - naw' what I mean?

Superiority of one over the other is down to all other forms of virtues that the Prophet (SAW) confirmed and praised.

This is exactly what I've been trying to tell you. Finally we have come to a conclusion. You don't need to ask me, just don't start me again. As far as I am concerned, subject closed. End off!

Ameen

Re: Qualities of Uthman (RA)
« Reply #110 on: March 26, 2015, 11:38:43 PM »
I want to be honest and say this discussion is getting really stupid, I can't figure out what is being discussed anymore, what's the exact topic? Does it need so many pages to prove that the Prophet (saw) thought highly of `Uthman?

Absolutely. No more to be said from me!

Hadrami

Re: Qualities of Uthman (RA)
« Reply #111 on: March 26, 2015, 11:43:35 PM »
just close the thread Hani. Its too long

 

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